Are Toll Brothers really as bad as some people say?

My Toll Brothers house looks nice inside, but they used a quarter-inch fiberboard with no wrap as the sheathing, even though code requires a 7/16 minimum. Built in 2004 If possible check out what the walls are made of before you buy, inspectors won't check.

Just keep in mind that the people who run to Reddit to “review” a builder are typically not happy about their experience. Not a lot of people run to review something they like.

In Texas, Toll Brothers are one of the premier builders. Anywhere a Toll Brothers community goes up is a generally a pretty good area with nice houses.

Toll is a good builder. Better than most production builders. But they are a production builder. Accept that fact before you go into it and you’ll be happier.

Production builders can be great, especially if you don't buy a speculative build. (but even spec homes can be OK, just be prepared to be persistent and patient if there are any major warranty issues!)

If you're buying early in the construction process, it's important to get your own framing inspector. It should be a well qualified inspector - this is one of the more expensive things to remediate post-construction, and will cause you the most frustration with warranty repairs if it's not completed in a workmanlike manner during initial construction.

Depending on how much your "inspection" budget is, my opinion is that the next two items to have inspected are foundation/site drainage, and mechanical.

After those items, everything else can be be repaired relatively inexpensively. Depending on how high your standards are, you might consider having an inspector ensure any hardwoods are properly acclimated, your HVAC system is always run with a filter during drywall work, and drywall is properly secured to the framing (since drywall is actually a structural component in many plans).

Like others have said in this thread, Toll Brothers are a premium builder, so regardless of what comes up in your home, anything not performed in a workmanlike manner will (eventually) be remediated if you're persistent, follow their claims processes correctly, and/or hire appropriate inspectors/engineers as necessary if you do run into problems.

Ok, in case this post wasn't long enough, here's the reason: Builders like Toll Brothers do have many trades on staff, but they often need to contract out, depending on work load / available employees. Sometimes a "bad" crew (often foundation, site prep, or framing) gets missed until too far into the construction process. That's one source of the lemons you read about on BBB/Reddit/Angi/etc. When it comes down to remediation, once the costs reach a certain point, you deal with a different department at your builder's corporate office: they are typically highly skilled in all aspects of construction, liability, as well as sales: their job is to walk the fine line between their profits, litigation, and keeping you sufficiently satisfied.

Here in AZ of the big home builders they are the best. Their products command a higher price because they have great floor plans, bigger lots, and create a better looking house than the rest. I’d love to build a TB home.

Maybe it is just me. I've been living in a Toll Brother new construction home since the past 4 years and honestly I haven't had any issues with mine so far. They gave a year warranty and they pretty much addressed everything I found issues with (which were very minor and are part of a new construction home as it settles). The process of working with them while the thing was being built was pleasant as well. They engaged with me throughout the process and were able to accomodate last minute things often for free such as adding extra outlets in the office room to adding a NEMA 14-50 charging setup in the garage in case we got an electric car. This was obviously pre-pandemic so not sure if things have changed.

Do remember that the people who write reviews on the internet are often people who have had issues who go and vent out there. Think of the last time you wrote a positive review for a place/thing you liked. Also, it really varies from area to area since Toll will sub-contract the build process to local contractors so your experience kinda varies across the US. Now this is my first home so I don't have a large dataset to compare it with but my friends got older homes from other developers and I see no quality difference. In fact I'd argue, the new home I have is much more energy efficient and has a better more modern layout.

Toll Brothers, like most national builders, take shortcuts to increase profits. They use fancy looking finishes that are on the cheaper end so it looks like a nice house, and behind all the fancy finishes are shortcuts that save them money. according to this the avg subdivision has 342 houses. If they skimp and save even $1000 per house, that’s $342k.

I work in construction, I’ve lived in cookie cutter subdivisions, I’ve renovated about 6 houses, friends/family live in cookie cutter subdivisions and it’s always the same shit with builders, big national builders or even local builders that build based on production, taking short cuts to save money. I used to work for a small insulation contractor that landed a 1000 home subdivision, the owner told the blow truck operator to install 1-2 bags less of fiberglass up in the attic per house than required to reach the appropriate R-value. That alone profited the company an extra $25k-$50k, which of course went right into the owners pocket.

All that said, there’s no perfect house unless you want to hire a custom builder and inspect everything yourself. Every house will eventually have its problems, every piece of land is different. One house may have settlement issues and the one right next to it may not. One house may have been graded improperly and have issues when it rains while all the other houses are fine. Natural grades may cause problems for one house and not others. There’s so many variables. Houses are a lot of money upfront, a lot of money to maintain and a lot of money to repair (hopefully not for 15+ years if buying new!)

Best advice is to have the best understanding of what you’re buying, what the potential downsides are, etc. make an informed decision that you can live with, don’t overspend and make sure you sleep well when it’s all said and done.

I lived in a toll brother community and it was fine, nothing really to complain about.

BUYER BEWARE!!!! If you are considering purchasing a new home YOU MUST GET REPRESENTATION (BUYER AGENT/ REALTOR). Don't fall victim of any builder $$$ incentives to let them write your offer or get an agent. The sales consultant that is very friendly, cordial and polite is NOT looking out for your interest. Their interest is solely for the builder. Understand that the home models are ALL UPGRADES. Understand all standard features, layouts, plan and get the pricing options list BEFORE making your design choices. Structural choices CAN'T be changed and these are big ticket items. Also, the design STUDIO is where the FAT is meaning the builders profit CENTER. You have been forewarned!

Honestly it all comes down to the contractors they use. I have seen TB houses that are great and I have seen some really bad ones. That holds true for nearly all mass production builders. Dan Ryan homes (not Ryan homes) and dream homes would be two exceptions where it’s largely always poor construction

Toll brothers bills themselves, I believe, as a premium build but that’s largely marketing. You see the same issues with them you do with all of the others. They will charge you a higher price point though - largely for their name and usually a bigger house.

TB around my area in FL is a good, premium builder. I just hated how they went to bidding on lots. Roughly the same time their CEO mentioned on a quarterly earnings cal that demand was so high they were going to try and get as money as they could out of the process. I get they are for profit, but to come out and say you are gonna get as much money as possible just feels slimey. Also, their model homes around me had really shoddy cosmetic work. Realtors we have worked with preCovid were positive on them though.

WA State - they are on the higher end of builders, generally was a great experience to work with them. Always do an inspection since the rush to deliver homes can cause issues and they will fix anything before move-in, it happened to some buyers of mine and was not a big deal at all.

Fairly poor build quality. Our realtor talked is out of building w them because of it. She took us out to a build site and showed us what she was talking about. Studs are typically 16 in on center. Toll Bros had 24 in on center on EXTERIOR walls. Basically, they show really well new but after that, the corners they cut manifest themselves fairly readily.

Toll Brothers in SoCal are luxury builders...they are one of the only builders that have such a strong reputation that they can sell their community before model homes are even up.

We just decided to go with new construction and decided on Pulte. While I don’t have extensive knowledge of Toll Brothers, what I will say is that most people bash all large track builders. So whether you decided on Toll Brothers, Pulte, Ryland, Lennar, etc. someone out there will hate them. Remember what you’re buying with these large track homes. They aren’t custom beyond picking your cabinets, adding some structural changes (in certain models/with certain builders), picking carpet, etc. They are really building homes quick while there’s hay to be made. Each builder hires a bunch of subs to complete the work. Meaning that while Toll Brothers is the builder, and they have the responsibility to vet the folks they hire, the house is only as good as the subs doing the work. But with all this said, you’re probably ok as long as you protect yourself. Meaning, find a good agent, which is a job in itself. Then, if you’re building the house, make sure you find a good inspector to do a pre drywall inspection and final walk through inspection BEFORE closing. Again, if you’re building and not buying a spec house or buying a resale, I would suggest getting a structural engineer to come before the foundation is poured—and then to also inspect the foundation after poured. Some say that’s overkill—but I found it comforting.

I’m very familiar with the GA areas so happy to provide any other feedback. I also am happy to pass along some inspectors in the area that I have zero affiliation to other than they did some inspections for us and kicked ass and saved us some major headaches.

I purchased a toll brothers home two years ago and let me tell you…it is an absolute joke. The inspector was clearly negligent and passed this house when there are so many violations. And all the subs are complete idiots.  Literally everything in my house is messed up. From the framing, drywall, floors, cabinets, doors, windows, walls, ceilings, hvac, plumbing, and electrical.  My house has major drafts coming through the walls because the sheathing was not properly installed and also where the walls meet the floor, there are gaps in the framing allowing major air to flow into my home.  I literally have to rip all the siding off and the moisture barrier to fill in the gaps with spray foam. That’s the only solution to stop the drafts.  Every wall and ceiling in my home has nail pops. I’m not talking a few, I’m talking hundreds. On the first floor alone, I already fixed about 450 nail pops. I have a 1/4” gap in my flooring.  There are walls that don’t have enough screws so when you tap the wall it rattles. The cabinets are not screwed to the wall, so the countertop is pulling away from the wall. The cabinets also look like shit. The drawers do not line up with other drawers. The moulding is cockeyed. And the backsplash tile up to the range hood looks like crap. The finishes in the house are trash. The hvac duct work in the basement had massive amounts of air leaking before getting to the vent.  I’m not exaggerating anything and to respond to the guys comment that most reviews are bad, you work for toll you troll. I have photos of everything that I will gladly post if anyone wants to see.  And getting tolls warranty is like pulling teeth.  I had to call corporate, I complained to BBB, and I reached out to the attorney generals office to file a complaint. It took over a year for toll to finally respond.  Oh and for any warranty issues, they don’t work around your schedule. You have to work around the subs schedule.  I wasted over two weeks of personal time off from work dealing with warranty items that never got addressed because the subs were unprepared or they performed the repair and it was worse than the original. Toll will drag out the issues past warranty period and then close out your tickets after the year.  They are not responsive.  I would not recommend a toll brothers home at all. For the money they charge, you can custom build your home.  But if you want to live in a sub division with no privacy, buy a tolls home.  I regret not looking at these forums before buying my home. Bc I would not have purchased a tolls home. 

Not only in austin anywhere they are worst. unethical sales. they don't have proper ethics in sales worst builder, i can't explain all those things , how their sale team behaves with customer

I just bought Toll at Avenir in Florida on 12/15/23. The Toll Home services is horrible to deal with. I have been waiting for 4 months for them to fix my master shower, replace tile (which upon closing they promised would be replaced), fix the outdoor kitchen refrigerator, in addition to not placing baseboards in the kitchen and bedroom. They come out but do not resolve issues in a timely basis or at all.

I built a house in Herriman Utah (Denali Estates) and moved in 6 months ago. Promised me 8 months to deliver the house and it took 22. Now they will not fix anything - I open issues and tickets and they are ignored. Just terrible.

hi

People come on Reddit to complain. Google them and see what places like the Better Business Bureau have to say.

Look bro, I didn't read your post or anyone elses response.....

But everyone hates their builder..... some are worse than other.... and maybe toll brothers is the worst..... but no one loves their builder

Are you referring to brookmeade?

We are going with a new build and personally, I think most of the complaints are because people are not going with upgrades and staying with the base homes. The homes are much nicer once you start to upgrade the home. They give the option for base to make it as affordable as possible. We are happy with ours despite the poor reviews, yours has a better reputation from my understanding.

I've seen them out in the middle of nowhere many times. I imagine there's plenty of room for small errors when you cover larges distances like they do. I kinda feel like this is a price you pay for peaceful custom homes. Things are gonna come up.

Live in a Shea/Toll Borthers community. Shea 500-900K; Toll Brothers 1-2 million.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/housing/toll-brothers.html

Hi i know I’m late but i have a good review on toll brothers. In 2016 my parents built a Toll brothers Henley model, pretty big house over 10,000 square feet. I was in high school at the time when My parents were building the house but i was pretty involved in the building process. I would say overall, the people building the house did an outstanding job and they turned my parents vision into a reality. Every weekend my parents and i went to the house while It was building to see any updates that had taken place. My dad used his phone and took detailed photos of everything that was changing. He uploaded them into a folder and he was able to go to the plans then look at the pictures to see if anything may be out of place or if a wall was supposed to be in an area and It wasnt. I would say to follow that and just keep on top of the builders. You are spending a lot of money and you want to make sure everything is exact.

We moved in, in February of 2017. And a couple year later everything is still in order building wise. The foundation is still strong, the brick still looks great, and the builder used quality materials. I would say toll brothers is a great builder and It is a great investment.

A little late to the game, but you can ask any Toll Brothers home owner in the Manors at Lakeridge about how awful Toll Brothers is and the answers would be unanimous.

In my personal experience, the design and layout is phenomenal, but the quality, workmanship, and warranty response is absolutely shameful. I could never recommend Toll Brothers.

we just closed on our Toll House in Reno, Nevada at The Cliffs. We came home to a massive leak 3 weeks later and massive damage to the upgraded hardwood we put in. They immediately came out to assess. Things got weird from there. They shut off the water and spent an hour looking and pulling appliances out. Once they turned the water back on, the leak stopped. Now they are trying to say since we installed our own fridge that it must have been the water fridge line leaking...except they even pulled it out themselves and stated "no leak here". we are left with massive damage to deal with on our own after paying 1.25 for the house. The fridge was not the source. There was no visible sitting water ANYWHERE which is typical of a leaking fridge line which we also tested multiple times before pushing the fridge back after install. I hired an independent leak detection service who also stated that the fridge was not the cause due to nature of damage. They did see evidence of water dripping down the vents in the attic (crawled up there myself to look). Water remediation even said it isn't the fridge the kitchen wall center point seems like it could be the cause but we have no way of proving that and they basically said American Leak Detection doesn't make sense... the independent professional. We are forced to file a claim with our insurance company and still don't know the cause.. I hate them but i'm sure there are plenty of people who are happy but IMO ..check everything, trust nothing with them and don't let them see anything without supervision present. They also spent an hour on the roof banging around and hammering after the fact yet claim there was nothing wrong up there...I've had nothing but shady experiences with them. Just be very careful if you do consider them or better yet buy a house that requires an inspection. A very horrible lesson learned for us. But to other peoples points, i'm one of the angry ones writing this but don't want it happening to others which is why i'm sharing my experience.

I know I'm late, but my Toll house built in 2005 is pretty bad. There was barely any insulation when we moved in in 2006, the walls and trim are not straight, and the floor creaks when you walk.

They build overpriced shit junk. I’ve got a $700,000 “luxury” home in Florida that’s just over 3 years old and basically falling apart. Never mind it took them 6 months longer to finish the build than it was supposed to, and even then the house still wasn’t really finished. Just know your going to pay a lot for a polished turd

I would just say I agree with the bad experiences

Our sales manager had a no button on her table and lied about a lot of things we could have and not have and made the experience unpleasant to say the least , complaints to upper management for the district, yielded nothing favorable, very condescending people we had dealt with, smug… broken house from the start, hope they get what comes around goes around in their lifetime. They hurt a lot of people.

I live in a toll home and it’s been great after buying new for 8 years. I would buy another toll brothers home again over other competition

They’re trash. 6 months into our 700k “luxury” home and it’s already falling apart. Floors not level, wood trims around house falling apart, gaps in doors etc.

lousy and rude staff. Have no courtesy and treat customers like shit. Takes many short cuts and build homes with bare minimum house codes. Nothing special. Run away from these predators. You will save atleast 200k+ by going with other builders and still get the same quality house.

I signed for my house in Oct ‘21 and was told 12-14 months to completion. Now it is looking closer to 20 months! They fraudulently represent completion times with no regard for the disruption, damage and expense incurred by the homeowners. I am in the process of starting legal action.

Yes they are horrible in my experience with them, based on things that they were suppose to fix and the poor quality workmanship , and the attitudes they gave us, they lied to us and many others about what we can and cannot have for options and they play around with pricing , on the outside the communities look amazing and with some diy it can be good. I think they don’t care about their work , They do seem to think that they are elites .. that’s my observation. I don’t believe they need a high quality education to be in sales or pm yet they behave like they are superior. We dont flaunt ourselves but aren’t the customers that pay close to a million the ones that deserve the respect? I would definitely buy another house from them , only because with some attitudes aside and a little work on my part , I can have a desirable place to live and with others that have community Don’t let them spoil things for you , they are only there for the money and closings are most important.

Any ideas on how to negotiate with them on a new build?

Hey there! Just saw your question and I’m wondering how your history ends, did you buy the house? Is it good? They did a good job? I’m in the same situation today as you were 1 year ago… could you share your experience? Tks!!

DO NOT purchase a home from Toll Brothers. Their quality is terrible and they will feed you lies about how long it will take. They are currently delayed 8+ months on my build.

Seriously, STAY AWAY!!

Just moved into our home built in 2011. It is beautiful, and feels solid inside. We have all the thermostats off through the summer and the home is a very comfortable temperature. We did turn on the air at night, but so far we are very happy with our Toll Bros. home.

Every home looks the same, build quality is wildly variable (depending on the quality of the local contractors). Homes are built to the standard of a garden shed and there’s barely 8 ft between them. All the mature trees get chopped in the lazy planning stage and so there’s no cover from the sun and no natural foliage that breaks up the repetitive roof lines.

Then there are the CDD fees - be wary of those.

I see no redeeming features to these neighbourhoods.

As a customer my experience is very bad with them. There is no customer satisfaction in their dictionary. After all that I have gone thru, I would say, be very cautious.

Went to a Toll Brothers sales center today. The sales pitch was going well. We loked the design. We're just about ready to go look at the models, and the sales guy worked in a comment about the cost of the land. Kinda like he hoped we didn't hear it.

We asked for him to repeat it, and sure enough, all but one of the hundreds of lots had a lot of premium, in the thousands. He also mentioned that most of their customers ended up with $60k of upgrades. This for a house advertised for the high $300k.

We priced one place that, using their typical numbers, would have been 20% over the advertised price.

My guess is that they will always have one lot with a $0 lot premium, so you can't call it bait and switch.

Sounds like that's the state of the business.

Dear Toll Brothers,

My wife and I are writing to formally express our deep concerns and dissatisfaction regarding significant issues encountered during the home-buying process with Toll Brothers.
The contract for a property located in Elkhorn Grove has been plagued with multiple inconsistencies, which have caused confusion and jeopardized the integrity of the agreement. Upon our initial review of the document, my wife and I noticed discrepancies in the incentives stated in the contract. The contract listed a reduction of $75 off, whereas the agreed-upon incentive was $75,000 or $75K. The sales agent stated she “forgot the 'K'” but advised she would "edit prior to signing if it made us feel better". Furthermore, the verbiage concerning the homesite premium deposit for VA homebuyers remains inaccurate. The sales agent stated she “wrote it into the contract herself” and would try to revise it so it would read clearer. At the time of us signing, the verbiage used still indicated a lesser deposit was required than what was requested.
In addition to these contractual discrepancies, our experience with the home options presented has been distressing. During the structural meeting with the sales agent, they specified lower cabinets were included, only to discover that the actual offering was different from what was conveyed. Despite our verification with our realtor, the sales agent has refused to acknowledge their misinformation. Moreover, the area and sales managers have shown an unwillingness to resolve these issues, resorting to intimidation tactics and leveraging incentives against us. Their dismissive attitude and attribution of our concerns to an overload of information rather than acknowledging the misinformation provided is disheartening.
What's more, the lack of clarity and information shared between the sales team and the design studio has compounded our concerns. The viewing of different floor plans for our home and the unavailability of pricing for essential features like cabinetry, insulated walls, and electrical options during design and structural meetings have left us uncertain and dissatisfied with the process. While we initially held high hopes for our new home, the multitude of inconsistencies, unresolved issues, reviews of other customer complaints in the area, and the unprofessional conduct displayed by the management have deeply unsettled us. As a military family, attention to detail is paramount to us, and the experience thus far has fallen far short of our expectations. We anticipated a professional and seamless process but have instead encountered behaviors that do not reflect the upscale, luxury image associated with Toll Brothers.
We implore the corporate office to thoroughly investigate these matters and take decisive action to address these issues promptly. As responsible buyers, we have shown flexibility and understanding throughout this process. Still, we cannot continue to overlook these substantial discrepancies and unprofessional conduct demonstrated by sales agents Saeedeh Saatchi, Lauren Beauchamp, and area manager Julia Nova.
Please contact us at 860-655-9013 or alexisc021@yahoo.com at your earliest convenience to discuss this matter further and provide a resolution to these pressing concerns. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Toll brothers in Georgia cumming especially sales agent Warren and other corporate people are liers and don’t fall for their incentives those bullshit and they will never give you . They will wait for initial Deposit and then they show their colors . During closing they don’t even respond from their finance and they want to close the home before their given deadline .

Toll brothers is a very bullhsit and cheating company

Mmmm, they will sue anybody that bath mouths them,
I can only speak for me, I think the entire beginning to end to now ten years later could have been significantly more enjoyable , overall the planned landscapes looks great, the house is ok. I feel lucky that the place looks so nice, you can’t fight them even with inspections and arbitrations because they have a clause that you need to sign that that takes away your right to sue, you have to sign it. I fixed many problems by myself, small stuff mostly , but not all. They could be hard to deal with their super smug with matching aptitudes (joking)employee behavior, are they the rich ones? Or the customers paying them?? Decent looking homes, nice landscapes and Amazingly high resale value , just be sure you can afford it and not back out of a deal , I’ve heard about many folks losing deposits.

Yes, TollBrothers is absolutely horrible!!! Stay away! The array is a joke. They go around fixing things under the warranty and don’t know how to fix things under the warranty. We purchased a house from Toll 3 yrs ago and found out last yr the stair railing is not to code. There are multiple code violations regarding the stairs. The city inspector cited code violations and Toll is trying to back out saying the house passed a final inspection. The wall are not straight, the drywall isn’t taped properly, there a visible seams on the ceiling and walls. All of our ceramic tiles in the laundry room cracked 6 months after closing. It’s obvious that there is something wrong with the subfloor but they won’t fix it saying it’s not a warrantable item. Two of our rooms have water stains by the ceiling but Toll does not know how to fix it and who’s responsible. The insulation sin says it’s the roofer, the roofer says it’s not them. Toll warranty manager says it’s humidity in our house even though we have a humidity gauge d everything is perfect. They have no clue how to fix things under the warranty and ultimately you don’t get anything fixed. The construction managers that Toll hires are absolutely terrible and don’t know how to do their jobs. During construction we noticed windows not level and higher by 2” form other windows on the same wall/room. They were also installing one large window in the dining room in the corner of the room instead of the center. They framed our hallway wrong. They had to reframe the windows after we pointed it out to the construction manager. He admitted he didn’t notice. We previously had a home built by a different home builder 15 yrs ago and no issues whatsoever. We didn’t have one crack on the ceiling or walls and we were surprised. Stay away - speaking from experience.

I have been in a Toll Brothers home in Northeast FL for less than a year and can’t wait to sell it once capital gains laws for homeownership ends. Before you choose a Toll Brothers home, connect with a homebuyer who can share some things to know before you do.  Company has become too big and the customer service is not personable.  The goal appears to be quantity over quality. 

I have built with Lennar, Edward Andrews (Now Empire), and Toll Brothers in Georgia. Toll Brothers is by far the most professional and quality builder out of the three I have worked with. From contract to close, lennar was around 4 months, Edward Andrews was around 6 months, and Toll Brothers was around 12 months. Toll brothers is way more thorough and detailed - they will build plans specific to your home and have you sign off every piece of the plan to ensure it meets all your upgrade expectations. The other builders will not do this and simple mark on their standard plans. Toll will also call you every single week to give an update, and you will not get close to this experience with other production builders - you will have to constantly chase them for updates or just go see for yourself. Way more upgrade options with Toll Brothers. Little things make a difference as well, such as some of their exterior walls are 2x6 while most others are all 2x4. Additionally, their main level ceiling height was 10ft while others are typically 8-9ft. I was forced to close with Edward Andrews without a shower door - and didn’t receive the shower door for over a month. I didn’t experience pressure to close with Toll Brothers like the others, however, all these large production builders will push to close - it’s not anything specific to Toll. The biggest cons to toll I have experienced is a much higher earnest money deposit compared to other builders - they were 5% plus 20% of upgrades, while the others were around $10k-$15k EM deposit. Additionally Toll charges $100k for an unfinished basement whereas the other builders were around $50k - note, this was many years ago so maybe their prices have increased as well.

To me, Toll is definitely a production builder but it’s not the same feel as you would like a lennar home - feels more of a mix between a custom builder and production builder. Immediately upon walking into a toll/lennar home you can see/feel the difference in quality.

Reading a lot of other comments and complaints, it’s the typical issues of building a new home. You’re going to experience a lot of the same issues after close regardless of builder, even a custom home. I have a family member that just built a $2M custom home that is absolutely stunning, but they have a lot of the same issues that people are on her complaining about regarding Toll.

In my personal experience. The ranking is 1. Toll Brothers, 2. Edward Andrews (Empire), 3. Lennar.