The Downside Up
Thought experiments are something that a lot of us do with our own lives when we sit back and reflect on how different our life would have been if we hadn’t been there to meet our future spouse that day or if we’d invested real money in that stock back in college for instance. There are a million different branching paths our lives and the course of history could have taken if a few key things had been changed.
Now what if we made a podcast about that?
Well somebody did! At the beginning of October, CNN Audio and host Chris Cillizza launched the show Downside Up to ask these kinds of questions, but on a larger scale, about things that affect all of us like “what if we could get rid of mosquitos”, or “what if cities weren’t so car centric?
Or as he puts it in the trailer for the show:
“If we changed something small that we take for granted today what are the ripples we’d feel throughout the course of history that would turn our world Downside Up?
In this thought experiment we dare to imagine a different kind of past, present and future.”
In each episode of this limited-run series, Chris talks with experts to find out the answers to his burning what-if questions.
We spoke to him over Zoom.
Your show is very different from your work on tv. How did you get interested in this?
Chris Cillizza: When I started thinking about doing a podcast I wanted to do something broader than just politics, I wanted to stretch my wings. I've been doing politics for a long time, but I have a lot of other interests and this was a great vehicle to pursue them since no one is interested in just one thing forever. Hopefully, this is what gets me untypecast.
(Note: he did an amazing reference to the Simpsons episode about monorails in the car episode)
One of your episodes about cars seemed to have a call to action in it, and another one about “what if dogs had never been domesticated?” seemed to be a lot more just what if based
Chris: A what if scenario has a lot of problems, and you have to offer a solution. I was interested in the city story since cities were built around cars since World War II and I thought it was a fascinating idea. And that’s why we lean on expert guests, because I would hate to be a guy just giving expert advice. I think of myself as a novice who's just learning. I want to go where people are interested. Our latest episode is about mosquitos. What if we could genetically engineer away mosquitos? Would that be a good, bad or indifferent thing? I'm trying to have fun with the topics.
That sounds like the plot of the last Jurassic Park movie.
Chris: I actually asked some scientists about that if it could happen and they unfortunately said no. I was fascinated by that whole having mosquitos frozen in amber and getting their dna from their blood to bring them back to life. Apparently, it works better in Hollywood than in actual science.
And that’s why I need to lean on experts for this show. For the entire 10 episode season I didn't really know anything about each of those subjects, and I hope that the appeal of the podcast is that it isn't coming from someone who knows all about it. I’m curious to learn about this stuff myself and I think that's the value of the podcast too
What has that process been like?
Chris: I hate to say gratifying, but that's the word that keeps coming to mind. I got to talk recently with author and SEC guru Paul Finebaum whose work I’ve known and admired for years. This has been a very long production. We’re putting our best foot forward and I feel like we did our best work.
Who do you see as the target demo? When creating a new podcast that target often looks like the person who's making it.
Chris: I was listening to a lot of Freakonomics Radio and I think the show is a really good encapsulation of taking something that I'm not necessarily interested in and making it fun and informative. That was very much top of mind when creating the show, but what we focused most on was guests. I feel really good about who we’ve talked to and selfishly it's been a really educational and fun experience. Sometimes you shouldn’t overthink it.
How do you come up with a wishlist of topics?
Chris: The team and I did a lot of brainstorming and whittled down to about 65 ideas. We wanted to make sure they would appeal to a broad audience while not being so narrow that most people wouldn't be interested and I feel good about the ones we chose.
How does the title fit in thematically and is it Stranger Things inspired?
Chris: I don't think you could use the title like we’ve done without there being some reference. We wanted to convey what if the world as we know it would be like we tipped it a little bit. With the artwork and the title we wanted to show that it's a thought experiment.
Here’s a quick thought experiment: how different would it be if JFK was never shot?
Chris: It would be very different and in fact, I just read a book about something like this. I wonder if Bobby would have run or if Ted would have gone into office. Would we have had Nixon? But if there were no Nixon, then there would be no Watergate, and if there was no Watergate then there would be no Washington Post. So you start to see how much things can unspool if one thing was changed.
