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  • Best Hammond organ module for organists?

    I've been looking around at getting a tonewheel organ module to connect to my Roland D-50. It's been a challenge to figure out which ones have the best sound/features for one who plays as an organist at home, not a "keyboardist" who plays in a band. I'm finding many videos for various modules that feature "rock" sounds emphasizing distortion and "gritty" sounds. I'm not interested in that. I'm intersted in the sound of a well-maintained A100 or the like. I know everyone has their own favorites or features, so maybe your top 3 list that are worth looking at? The one's I've investigated just through internet/Youtube searches are Roland VK-8m, Voce V3, Ferrofish B4000+. That's just the start. There are so many others, it's hard to know what's worth considering. All opinions (and reasons for same) are welcome!

    Essential features: Sounds like a Hammond!, ability to use a split keyboard on the D-50 to play separate upper and lower keyboard sounds on the module with upper and lower having independent drawbar settings, Reverb, decent Leslie sim, actual drawbars, as many individual controls as possible to mimic those of an A100.

    So far what I've found:

    Rolad VK-8M: seems to have all the features of an A100 plus the Leslie sim and D-beam for easy hand control of several effects. Most adjustable parameters on individual knobs. Has ability to play upper, lower, and pedal keyboard sounds on separate midi channels. Question: if I split the D-50 keyboard, will I be able play with separate drawbar settings on the module?

    Ferrofish B4000+: seems to have all the A100 and Leslie effects, but no dedicated knobs. Looks like you select the effect or group of parameters you want to change, and the the LCD screen indicates what each generic knob (labeled A, B, C, etc.) changes. I have not investigated whether it has separate upper and lower drawbar settings.

    Voce V3: only considered this because a local shop has one. Preset sounds were mostly terrible in my opinion. Leslie spins way too slow and takes too long to spin up, though I understand this can be edited. No Reverb, so that's probably a deal breaker in itself.

    I've also tried Garage Band on both an iPad and Mac, CollaB3, Gallileo for iPad. None of those had satisfactory sounds (again, too gritty, too much "key click"), and not easy to use.
    Last edited by Admin; 09-20-2021, 06:45 AM. Reason: corrected title spelling
    1956 Hammond B3, Hammond PR-40; Roland D-50

  • #2
    It strikes me as really strange that someone who owns a A100 would want to have a mediocre sounding copy. Except maybe if you don't own a Leslie speaker , and you have not had the experience of true tube overdrive (subtle or screaming) , warmth , liveliness. There is no way to copy that experience with plastic modules and other speakers. Dont go for trash , go for the electromagnetic experience.
    Take it from the horses mouth : don't be an onanist.
    Last edited by Dik van der Noot; 09-18-2021, 04:11 PM.

    Comment


    • KeithB
      KeithB commented
      Editing a comment
      I no longer have an A102.

  • #3
    I have B3X, which I find quite convincing and enjoyable, but not everyone finds the sound is as they would want it. I definitely think it's at its best simulating a well maintained A100 (which is also my pick, by the way!). They actually have two sampled A100's and two B3's if I recall correctly. For what to play it on, there are some inexpensive Midi controllers such as those by M audio that have a number of sliders and buttons. That's probably the best to go for. That being said, what you really want is a real tonewheel hammond!

    Current: Allen 225 RTC, W. Bell reed organ, Lowrey TGS, Singer upright grand
    Former: Yamaha E3R
    https://www.exercisesincatholicmythology.com

    Comment


    • KeithB
      KeithB commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes, my biggest concern with getting one of these is it will be unsatisfying. I am relatively new to the Hammond organ. I took piano lessons on and off, and have a Roland digital piano that my daughter mostly plays. About 5 years ago I was given a Hammond M3 that needed some work. I got it going and had it a couple of years before I sold it. I then picked up an A102. Very nice, and great in the right hands. However, I did not play it a lot, and I often went back and forth between the Hammond and the Roland D-50. I liked them both for different reasons. Bottom line I sold the Hammond. Not that I didn't like it, but it took up a lot of space and I could not justify keeping in in my mind for the amount I played it. I really like the sound, but again, it became a bit impractical. Maybe if I was retired and had more time to play it, it would have made much more sense to keep it. Anyway, with just the D-50, I thought I'd ask the question of how to still get the Hammond sound (doesn't need to be perfect) while using the D-50 as my keyboard.

      I know this forum will be biased toward a real Hammond, but that's not the question I'm asking. I could get an M3 for free. It would be smaller and easier to find a place to put it, but I'm exploring the options with a module first.

    • Larason2
      Larason2 commented
      Editing a comment
      That's fair enough. I would try out the B3X on your D50. If it's realistic enough for you, then that's probably the way to go. There are a lot of other hammond emulators out there, but none of them are perfect. If you want something very compact with a lot of other good sounds, you can try out Hammond's SK series keyboards. One of those might replace your D50.

  • #4
    I've looked at the B3X. Seems like it sounds really good, but I can't see paying $300 for a software emulator, and it would not give me the hand controls of a module. The emulator in Garage Band is not bad for my purposes, but I don't like using the cursor/mouse to change every parameter. That's why I'm researching modules.
    1956 Hammond B3, Hammond PR-40; Roland D-50

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    • #5
      You've got several things going on. What you seek is a bit difficult - even to unpack.
      You want this honest-to-real Hammond experience, but without a Hammond. You have a D-50, which has diving board keys and not Hammond keys.
      You wanna play a double manual instrument on a single manual.
      So loading up your compromises, you'll have to fish through where you're willing to settle.
      Almost anything can make a good Hammond sound. It can't make EVERY Hammond sound, but even a DX-7 can make a Hammond sound. Heck, there's a couple of decent Hammond patches on your D50.
      The V3 is a great unit. Some say the V5 is a little better. Both of these are designed to go through PA systems and you can add FX like reverb as you choose THERE as opposed to building it into the module. The V3 is a "get-by" Leslie and for deep in the band mix, it works. Even Voce knew that. But there's things that work better for the Leslie, but not too much better for the Hammond.
      I've never heard any unit with a GREAT Leslie. After all, it's coming out of speakers, not a Leslie. I've not heard a module with even a really good Leslie. But I've heard really good Leslie effects: from the early marginal ones to things like the Ventilator. I'm guessing you'll need at least two pieces for your goal... at least.
      To my knowledge, there is nothing where you plug in a midi cable and suddenly have a Hammond.
      But there are some really good clones out there.
      There is nothing where you plug in an audio cable and suddenly have a Leslie.
      But there are some really good clones out there.
      Personally, I think the Roland sounds shallow and thin. But everyone has their tastes.

      Comment


      • #6
        The Roland VK-8m is a great all-in-one module, with a pretty good Leslie emulation. The D-beam thing mostly gets annoying whenever you reach out to twiddle a knob on the unit. I also have a Voce V5 which has a very well regarded basic drawbar sound (but no Leslie emulation). That, with a Neo Ventilator, is probably one of the most potent combos in terms of sound and portability. All the growl you could wish for (wait for the Green Onions...):

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTml7kX8Iu4

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by tiredoldgeezer View Post
          You've got several things going on. What you seek is a bit difficult - even to unpack.
          You want this honest-to-real Hammond experience, but without a Hammond. You have a D-50, which has diving board keys and not Hammond keys.
          You wanna play a double manual instrument on a single manual.
          So loading up your compromises, you'll have to fish through where you're willing to settle.
          Almost anything can make a good Hammond sound. It can't make EVERY Hammond sound, but even a DX-7 can make a Hammond sound. Heck, there's a couple of decent Hammond patches on your D50.
          The V3 is a great unit. Some say the V5 is a little better. Both of these are designed to go through PA systems and you can add FX like reverb as you choose THERE as opposed to building it into the module. The V3 is a "get-by" Leslie and for deep in the band mix, it works. Even Voce knew that. But there's things that work better for the Leslie, but not too much better for the Hammond.
          I've never heard any unit with a GREAT Leslie. After all, it's coming out of speakers, not a Leslie. I've not heard a module with even a really good Leslie. But I've heard really good Leslie effects: from the early marginal ones to things like the Ventilator. I'm guessing you'll need at least two pieces for your goal... at least.
          To my knowledge, there is nothing where you plug in a midi cable and suddenly have a Hammond.
          But there are some really good clones out there.
          There is nothing where you plug in an audio cable and suddenly have a Leslie.
          But there are some really good clones out there.
          Personally, I think the Roland sounds shallow and thin. But everyone has their tastes.
          I agree the D-50 can make some real nice Hammond sounds. I've got a couple of sys files with just Hammond sounds. Most of them are quite good, but of course what I can't do is dial in the Hammond sound I want. If I knew how to edit on the D-50, maybe I could just create the sounds I want, but I have no clue how to edit on there, and no time to learn. I can probably live the the Hammond and pipe organ patches I have among the sys files, but not really what I want long term.

          I've never had a Leslie and never heard one in person. I would not be surprised if it was a real challenge to simulate one. I like the slow setting sounds I've heard on recordings and on the D-50 patches that have it. I'm less of a fan of the fast sound, for what I play.

          It's easy to split the keyboard and shift the split point on the D-50, so again for my playing having one keyboard is not a big issue. I would just want a module that can separate midi signals for upper and lower keyboard. I know the VK-8m does this, I'm not sure about the others.

          Who knows, maybe I'll end up with another Hammond organ. They show up with some regularity within a 3 hour drive. :) However, for now, I want to try to see what I can do with the D-50 and a module...
          1956 Hammond B3, Hammond PR-40; Roland D-50

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by guylavoie View Post
            The Roland VK-8m is a great all-in-one module, with a pretty good Leslie emulation. The D-beam thing mostly gets annoying whenever you reach out to twiddle a knob on the unit. I also have a Voce V5 which has a very well regarded basic drawbar sound (but no Leslie emulation). That, with a Neo Ventilator, is probably one of the most potent combos in terms of sound and portability. All the growl you could wish for (wait for the Green Onions...):

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTml7kX8Iu4
            You can turn the D-beam off on the VK-8M, if accidentally activating it is a problem. There is a Voce V3 for sale locally. I tried it out on Saturday. Seemed to me I'd have to edit most of the sounds/parameters to get close to what I'd want. I was just not that impressed. However, your video certainly made the V5 sound good!
            1956 Hammond B3, Hammond PR-40; Roland D-50

            Comment


            • #9
              I have a VK-8M module collecting dust, because it just doesn't compare with the real console and real Leslies in the same room. I need 4 sets of drawbars! Having said that, I really, really liked the ability to tweak a number of parameters relating to the Leslie in the module. If you can get a used one for a good price, it's. really nice to have and use with a midi keyboard. So if you are doing a Brain Auger thing, left hand chording with a Rhodes sound, right hand Hammond console organ sound, I think it would be great. Physically pulling drawbars is a big deal for me.
              1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

              Comment


              • #10
                https://shop.keyboardpartner.de/epag...oducts/hx3-dbe
                C2 1953, as old as I am and 760 rebuilt, Custom M3 1955, custom HX3, Hohner OAB, Ventilator, Service for friends on A100, B3, BV, M100 and some Leslies

                Comment


                • KeithB
                  KeithB commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Impressive, and impressive price!

              • #11
                Originally posted by Tonewheel View Post
                I have a VK-8M module collecting dust, because it just doesn't compare with the real console and real Leslies in the same room. I need 4 sets of drawbars! Having said that, I really, really liked the ability to tweak a number of parameters relating to the Leslie in the module. If you can get a used one for a good price, it's. really nice to have and use with a midi keyboard. So if you are doing a Brain Auger thing, left hand chording with a Rhodes sound, right hand Hammond console organ sound, I think it would be great. Physically pulling drawbars is a big deal for me.
                Yes, the VK-8M is probably what I should try. Not hearing any other good options. Others in current production are either more expensive (HX3) or less features (Ferrofish). [Why is it only the Germans are working on this??] I'm keeping my eyes out for a VK-8M.
                1956 Hammond B3, Hammond PR-40; Roland D-50

                Comment


                • #12
                  Truth is: any half decent organ sound module (even the D-50) will be quite satisfying through a real Leslie. It's the presence, doppler effect of the Leslie that makes it so. The next step down is a Leslie sim, which have gotten really good at reproducing a recorded Leslie. But when you've experienced the real thing live, you've tasted blood and it's hard to turn back. Even a real B-3 will have something missing when played through a Leslie sim.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    I know several people who use digital organs (Nord or Hammond-Suzuki) with real Leslies as the best compromise between sound and (relative) portability.
                    I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

                    Comment


                    • Larason2
                      Larason2 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I agree. I've played on both the Nord C2D and an SK1, and I think their Hammond simulation is pretty good, and both have outputs for a real Leslie.

                  • #14
                    You're right, David.

                    This clip impressed me. The singer has passed away, and I believe he was originally from Hawaii, but ended up in Spain (!) where he was backed up by a very good drawbar puller using a clone and Leslie (triggered by left foot pedal). Listen to the organ solo. Blows me away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OswcWc8SaUE
                    1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                    Comment


                    • Dik van der Noot
                      Dik van der Noot commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The (blues) devil is in the detail. Are certain details important to a player. Are certain details important to a listener to a reproduction of a performance. Do details matter to achieve the best possible / inspirational performance. Do details matter when looking for a personal sound. Do details matter to someone who has no ear for details? How difficult is it to get a real Hammond up to standard so details can flourish?
                      ----Listening to this Youtube video on my headphone : the Hammond sound is very useful because it's very balanced and transparant and nestles nicely and in an intimate sounding way in the midrange alongside the other instruments , with no special details of overdrive / grit of the highest frequencies of the instrument , but some nice useful touches of overdrive in the lower midrange on a few occasions (at 0:10 is the first touch , although if one listens very carefully there is also some chair or something sqeaking which actually is maybe fooling me into hearing a moment of overdrive , ....on a third listening I hear it is actually the bass is causing it! The magic of instruments coming together in a split second.....at 0:38 some overdrive, ... at 1:00 clearer example of some modest overdrive higher up the frequency range, not your typical lowmid growl).
                      It sounds warm / intimate.
                      I don't think the solo sound is something special at all , it is probably better balanced than a lot of mediocre Hammonds but it is not the top-notch quality that can be achieved with a real one. Not as fat , but most of all not the intricate complex attack of a real one (with some crispyness still left in it ) well recorded , and no (remarkable) overdrive at all in this solosound. Fuller organ that follows the solo sounds warm but also somewhat plastic. Maybe also because you would normally expect some more volume from a real Leslie when switching from solo sound to a more full organ.
                      The drawbarsetting with the 1ft (fully) open setting sounds nice and (very) clean and works well. Many Hammonds with uneven volume in the last 15 wheels , or overall dull sound , surely won't render that as smooth and clear.
                      Conclusion : this sound does a very "decent" standard accompaniment job with a convincing intimate/warm smoothed out / hyperequalized tone. (Listening to the following clip of the same band ("You got me") it sounds okay (although already less convincing/thinner/more plastic) , but again it plays a relatively subservient role.
                      Dynamically it all sounds pretty flat , but that's no real problem in this standard accompanying role. This sound only allows me to dive into it to a certain point , after that there is a hedge which says....not able to dive any further ...sorry!!
                      I dont know how good the Leslie impersonators are (Ventilator) in their overdrive. I don't hear the extremer overdrive levels to judge wether this is a real Leslie. It has the convincing intimacy of a close recorded Leslie , the stereo is not very wide or open however. Panned to one side.

                      I like how Jimi Hendrix expanded blues to something next psychedelic level with his feedback.

                      EDIT : I now see in the video that he is using a real Leslie !! Is that one a hybrid tube / transistor standing there in the corner?? Is that the 760 transistor? Could be , there's hardly any overdrive in the lowmid. But it's a pretty warm sound.
                      Last edited by Dik van der Noot; 09-20-2021, 05:21 PM.

                  • #15
                    Originally posted by David Anderson View Post
                    I know several people who use digital organs (Nord or Hammond-Suzuki) with real Leslies as the best compromise between sound and (relative) portability.
                    Interesting, so here is another question. If your choice were an M3 or a good clone as you mention, which would you choose?
                    1956 Hammond B3, Hammond PR-40; Roland D-50

                    Comment


                    • Dik van der Noot
                      Dik van der Noot commented
                      Editing a comment
                      My guess is he generally prefers 2 5 octave manuals , and a tube preamp and a tube Leslie that he completely serviced up to spec. I serviced many Rhodes satisfactory , but not being a good pianist.
                      Being able to construct the best possible camera and having all the knowledge of lenses and light , doesn't mean that your ambition is to be a famous film director. But the famous film director will pick the technicians brain endlessly because he is fascinated by the inner workings also , because it will enable him to have more control over the aesthetics of the endproduct.
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