“I don’t mind a bit of pain every now and again as it reminds you that you’re alive,” James Roby says with a smiley little grimace on a sun-kissed winter afternoon in St Helens. The 37-year-old captain of the Super League champions will soon reflect on Saints’ remarkable victory against Penrith Panthers in Australia this month when they won the World Club Challenge. As the first British team to win the competition away from home since Wigan in 1994, St Helens have built a sustained success exemplified by Roby’s astonishing consistency after 20 years at the peak of a brutal sport.
“I’ve played it for a long, long time,” Roby says in his quietly compelling way. “As you age you get a bit stiffer and more sore in the morning. I come into training and we’ve got lots of young lads bouncing around, without a care in the world. I walk in like I’ve just been in a car crash.
“I’ve got scars everywhere and I’ve probably injured every part of my body. Fingers, hands, broke my nose loads of times, fractured ribs, sternum and I’ve had seven operations – both ankles done, clean out on my shoulder, elbow and knee but they’re relatively small. I’ve had two groin surgeries, which were the biggest ones. If we hadn’t got to the bottom of the problem with the groin surgery in 2019 it would have been the end at 33-ish. So I am lucky to still be playing.”
A year ago, as Roby recalls, “I’d announced that it was my last season as I’d just signed a one-year deal. I had a few grumbling issues that could do with fixing and it’s harder being an older player. But, mentally, I was still there. I was still ready for the fight, I was still wanting to be competitive, training and playing games. But as the season progressed [playing on another year] didn’t feel 100% right and I was pretty much nailed on. I said to my wife, Natasha: ‘That’s it, I’m done. I’m going to have to start looking for a job.’”
Roby had already broken Kevin Sinfield’s record of 454 Super League appearances. He has played 522 games for St Helens and, this season, he should become the most-capped Saint of all time when he eases past Kel Coslett’s record of 531 – set between 1962 and 1976.
“That was a driving factor in re-signing,” Roby says. “Part of me was thinking: ‘Who’s really bothered? Who really remembers someone who played that many games?’ But then I thought: ‘I’ve come all this way now, I might as well give it one last push and try for the record.’ If I do get it I know it’s going to be very hard to beat with fixtures getting reduced due to player welfare. I’ll be proud that my name is at the top of that list for generations to come.
“But there were a few factors in my doing a U-turn and winning [the World Club Challenge] explains a lot. I’m so glad I didn’t watch that in retirement because it would have been heartbreaking. I just want to be a part of it a little longer because I understand how lucky I am with this team. I want to win a few more trophies this year before I finish.”
His immense value to Saints was obvious in Australia. Roby’s composure and experience were vital after Penrith, having been 12-0 down, drew level with two minutes left. “I can’t remember exactly what came out of my mouth,” Roby says when asked what he said to his briefly dejected players. “It was along the lines of: ‘Don’t panic. I believe in us and we’re going to win this. Just keep doing what got us in a winning position.’”
Roby shrugs modestly. “You’ve got to keep your wits about you and stick to what you do day in, day out. We know our systems, how we like to play our sets and we’ve practised a lot of scenarios where, for example, you’re drawing and you’ve got one minute to win it. We practised that and it was quite fitting that, at such a moment, we gave the ball to the right guy and Lewis Dodd kicked the goal [and Saints won 13-12 in golden point extra time]. It’s relatively simple but the key is to stay calm.”
He prides himself on not being effusive, but even Roby admits that victory surpassed everything else in his career. “It’s probably the pinnacle because we’ve gone over to their back yard as real underdogs. They had no excuses – like coming over to play in a British winter. We’ve gone over there when it’s roasting hot, 30-odd degrees every day, and played them in their own ground.
“To lift the World Cup Challenge against potentially one of the best teams that’s ever played was fantastic. We did it for ourselves, but also for the Super League. The NRL is probably a stronger competition across the board, but we proved our top teams can definitely compete against their top teams.”
Seven of the Penrith squad played in last year’s World Cup final and Phil Gould, the NRL pundit and general manager of the Canterbury Bulldogs, was dismissive of Saints before the game. Asked to predict Penrith’s winning margin, he said: “They should be able to declare by half-time.”
Roby nods cheerfully. “We were aware of that and so thanks to Phil for that extra motivation. Being English, we feel they look down on us a little. They just expected Penrith to win. No one gave us a chance, but deep down we believed.”
Beyond belief and composure, Roby also epitomises intensity. One of my favourite replies in sport came when Roby was asked how he maintained such intensity. He suggested he played as if he was running to rescue his children from a kidnapping, or a burning house, and he smiles again when I ask if he really meant it.
“Yeah. This is a hard game that puts you in dark places. Sometimes you just want to rest. But you have to keep going, keep tackling, keep passing the ball, keep being involved in collisions. So there have been scenarios where I think like that. But it happens more in pre-season when we do fitness drills and it’s last man standing. I’m like: ‘I’m going to beat that guy,’ so I’ll imagine those thoughts. It happens more then than in actual games. We’re all weird in our own way and that’s what keeps me going.”
James Graham, his great friend and former Saints teammate whom he first played alongside as a kid, is the same age as Roby. Graham was a great prop who had eight successful years in the NRL, but after he retired in 2020 scans revealed dark spots on his brain that indicated abnormalities. Having suffered an estimated 18,000 collisions and more than 100 concussions in his long career, Graham understood that rugby was the almost certain cause. Do such revelations worry Roby?
“A little bit. Obviously I hope I can get through this last year unscathed with no more concussions, but, playing rugby league at this level, there are going to be collisions and head knocks. If you play long enough it’s highly likely you’re going to have some sort of [brain] damage.
“I spoke to James and he’s not blaming anybody. He understands the risks just like I do. I would never be one of those players who goes back and tries to sue the game. I know full well what I’m getting into. I am aware of [head injury] and it does scare me a little.”
Roby, a combative hooker, will still play with the same intensity for the next eight months. “Definitely. In a weird way, if you’re going full belt at 100% it probably protects you a bit more. There is an argument that, like James, you could have 100 concussions and still be relatively OK. Then you could have one concussion and get dementia or brain damage down the line.
“If I get to 50 or 60 and I might portray some symptoms. But I’m hopefully not displaying anything at the minute.”
The sharpness of Roby’s brain and his understated intelligence are clear in an absorbing interview – whether he is talking about life beyond rugby or his master’s degree in sporting directorship. “On the course there were people from Premier League clubs, or involved in cycling, rugby union and netball. We had guest speakers from Formula One and British Cycling and it opened my eyes and gave me insights into other sports. I might have had a pre-conceived idea about something, but when I learned the theory behind it, and understood other points of view, I changed my opinion.
“So the course was great and it focused more on executive-level leadership and high-performing organisations. We did stuff about innovation, technology and how the rise of AI can integrate with sport.”
Roby is more attracted to executive leadership than old-fashioned coaching, he has never been much interested in watching games or planning training drills. “I’ve always enjoyed the logical side and that’s why maths was one of my A-levels. I also enjoy the business side and going down a leadership route as a chief executive or a sporting director does appeal. I’d like a role looking after the performance side of the organisation. But it also comes down to money and there are not many roles like this in rugby league.”
Roby is ambitious and bright and even if his preferred option is staying in rugby league with Saints he is open to moving into other sports or mainstream business. “I’ve lived my whole life in the rugby league bubble and I’m a bit torn. Part of me would like something totally new, maybe get outside of sport altogether, but then part of me thinks: ‘No, sport’s my passion. I love rugby league so try and stay involved as I’ve got the knowledge and experience.’ But there might be opportunities in other sports.”
The lure of staying at Saints in an off-field role is obvious. Their legacy of success is so strong that when we talk about “dark days” at the club they centre on the years [2007 to 2011] when Saints lost five Grand Finals in a row. “Even though it is a great achievement to get to a final,” Roby says, “I look at them as failures. No one remembers second.”
Saints now aim to become the first club to win five titles in a row since Wigan won seven in the pre-Super League era between 1990 and 1996. Roby laughs when I ask what might happen if the winning run continues and he feels tempted to keep playing. “I might need somebody to put a hand on my shoulder and say: ‘Stop.’”
Winning a record fifth Grand Final in his final season would be, for Roby, “unbelievable”. He says: “It would almost be redemption after losing five. That drives me. This really is my last season and I need to finish on a high so I can look forward to that next chapter of my life.”
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