Sick of living in the United States? Want to leave America for a better life? This subreddit is devoted to thoughts and discussion about emigration from the US, how and why other countries are better, how you can leave, and expat/immigrant life once you've left.
Hello…I am posting this from a throwaway. I appreciate your insight as this has been a lengthy discussion in our family.
I see this sub as a "exit interview" as I am looking for insight.
My husband (39m) works in the automobile industry and has a chance to have a 3-5 year (possibly longer) assignment in the US. It would be a significant pay increase. If we take this opportunity, we plan to sell our house in the UK. Based upon appreciation we would clear approximately $300k USD, which we could use to buy a house in the US. We have two cars in the UK, which we would sell and buy new ones in the US. My husband also has now 30 days holiday leave in the UK.
I have lurked on this reddit for a long time as I suspected that a move to the US might be in the works. I feel that on the balance most comments I have read about moving to the US have not been frankly on the balance been positive compared to life in the UK and/or Europe.
I (35f) have one child (age 5) and we plan to have at least one more.
Here is what is holding me back:
I am note sure that after paying for health insurance, car insurance, etc. that the pay bump will really enable us to make more than what we are making in the UK, especially if I work as I have read that daycare can be between $3-5K/month in the US. Healthcare too. If we have another child, $200-40k for a hospital stay (vs. basically zero in the UK).
I also am diabetic and would need to see an endocrinologist. I have read that (I don’t really understand what this means) I may have a hard time finding one as there is a difference between in and out of network? Possibly a year waiting time to see a specialist in the US?
The food in the US. I am worried about the cost as well as the additives as I have read how hard it is to find food in the US without additives or highly processed ingredients.
I am a UK citizen, but of Ghanaian descent. As the job transfer would be in the south (South Carolina), how much is racism an issue? I have read about “sundown” towns and police violence towards minorities, which makes me nervous. From reading the comments here, it seems that racism is a thing in a lot of the US outside of urban areas.
I am a lapsed Episcopalian, but don’t go to church, so the idea of a religious centered country makes me nervous as well.
Schools? Will my child be taught actual science?
The gun violence in America is something I don't need to mention here.
I also have read that higher salaries in the US are a myth once healthcare costs, food costs, car insurance, etc. is figured in as well as the lack of any social safety net.
I am not keen on this move as I don’t think the quality of our life would be less expensive and better in the US vs. the UK. The suburbs don’t really have (from what I read) a sense of “community” once the hussle culture and superficiality is figured in. I am also worried about xenophobia and Americans not really knowing about the UK or Ghana.
I am trying however to keep an open mind and any insight from Americans or especially expats to the American south would be appreciated.
Edit: The city we would be moving to would be Greeneville, SC.
It looks nice, but doesn't say much about crime or if “walkability” is truly “walkable” by UKstandards.
So i'm a black Jamaican - American that would be considered "working class" that grew up in Suffolk county Long Island NY in a predominately white & conservative neighbourhood so my experience & views of the US may differ from many others.
Reasons why I wanted to leave the US:
Poor work-life balance, poor job security, weak unions/poor workers rights (compared to most other developed nations), the pace (everything's on the go), hyper capitalist culture (money is god), poor food standards, insane car dependency (unless you maybe live in NYC you NEED a car to get around), cost of living (even though I live in London now & it's expensive here too), the deep disdain for the poor & homeless, lack of universal or more accessible healthcare (I don't feel right living in a developed country that lacks this & had times in my life where I had no coverage), not much of a social safety net, growing political polarisation, flirting with facisim, racism especially against black people (subtle, in your face, or in the justice system. I have too many personal stories with this), backward steps on human rights (feel like the anti abortion laws in many states is just a start), gun culture, random mass shootings, I personally never felt at home there or had a connection to the country, & I had a child in the UK which cemented my move there.
Yeah, this is a fantastic summary. "Money is god" culture in the US is very insidious. I didn't realise how bad it had been there until I moved to the UK. I always knew there was a large focus on money, but once I was away from the people I felt relieved. People in the UK are so much more practical and don't care nearly as much about showcasing wealth.
I would also add that while you will likely get a larger salary in the US, their society has a way of draining more money from you than in the UK. You will likely be disappointed by no to low additional savings.
Yup middlemen parasites in everything getting a cut off of you.
You summed up everything that I feel
How did you make the move to UK?
I came on a "parent visa".
i think you might be describing being poor in usa with no specialized skillset in the marketplace. Sounds like OP is in a different situation given they make 200k upper middle income in SC?
I was just answering her question of what made me want to leave the US
yea thats totally fair. op shouldve prefaced her q with income level and marketable skill level. unfortunately it makes a huge difference in usa . ppl making 200k in sc can afford fresh food from whole foods in greeneville
I used to make well over $200k and I was still only netting a little bit. The more I made, the more I gave to the government. The net take home pay even after salary raises still wasn’t that much more after taxes came out. Plus, my healthcare insurance costs so much that l refuse to go to the doctor unless it is really necessary. I lost my job and must pay over $2000 a month just to continue my health insurance plus co pays for certain doctors.
lol the only place where you won't be giving stupid amounts to the government at that level is Hong Kong.
Would you say that there is less racism in the UK? Often having low racism and being very multicultural is a thing that is presented of one of the positives of the USA, even though the USA scores pretty badly in rankings. Also how do you explain yourself the big difference of ranking between Canada and USA?
Oh racism is very much present here however it's mostly subtle & generally without the violence. The cities & surrounding regions across the UK (mainly in England) tend to be very diverse. I can't really explain the difference of ranking between Canada & US as much since I don't really know Canada, I would have to look into it or ask some family who live there their experiences.
UK has good work life balance in general?
I'd say it's better than the US for sure but not as good as some other European countries (based on what I've read). By law you get tons of time off & generally you don't work as many hours. Wages tend to be lower (the job i'm currently doing wages aren't far off from the equivalent in NY) in some cases especially for certain skilled occupations wages can be 2x or 3x lower than their counterparts in major areas on the coasts in the US but minimum wage or low skilled jobs tend to pay better & offer more benefits.
So...word of caution. I went to elementary school in one of the close rural towns to Greenville (Easley, specifically). I remember it being fairly batshit being that it was in the Bible Belt, although things might be different in Greenville itself. Some teachers would talk a lot about God and make us get in a circle and talk about our guardian angels, parents complained and got dinosaur week taken away because dinosaurs aren't in the Bible, kids bullied me senseless for bringing a Harry Potter book to school and repeatedly told me the devil was going to take me to hell, etc. etc. (2nd-3rd grade). I have a lot more stories. This was in the late 90s/early 2000s but...just wanted to share that little anecdote. Maybe they actually teach science now, but they sure didn't back then.
Oh, and there was DEFINITELY racism. Again, this was in the outskirts and 25 years ago...but yeah.
I went to school in a small town in Spartanburg county (beside Greenville and a bedroom community for BMW and its suppliers). Same experience and definitely lots of racism. I also lived in Greenville for a while. It’s expensive and it’s segregated, but that’s really all cities in the U.S.
As a Christian, this scares me. People like these give Christians a bad name despite the fact that the Bible literally says that you should love all equally. Including non Christians and outsiders.
According to CNN, a strong majority of people in South Carolina are Trump voters. Their number one political issue is immigration. They are strongly anti-immigrant & anti-foreigner.
The state government continues to fight against diversity & racial equality measures.
OP is likely to face overt racism & anti-foreigner prejudice in South Carolina.
Police shootings of Black people there have made headlines, particularly the murder of Walter Scott in 2015, whose echoes still contribute to heightened tensions there.
South Carolina has particularly poor quality schools, ranking 44th out of the 50 states. (https://www.islandpacket.com/news/state/south-carolina/article272660425.html)
Maternal death rates are high in South Carolina, esp. among the Black community. I wouldn't have a baby there. (https://scdhec.gov/sites/default/files/Library/CR-013357.pdf)
Health care quality is low overall. South Carolina ranks 42nd out of 50 for quality of healthcare. (https://www.americashealthrankings.org/learn/reports/2022-annual-report/state-summaries-south-carolina)
The poverty rate varies there with the state of the economy, but it is currently around 14%. Compared to the UK's current poverty rate of 18% (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68625344), South Carolina may seem better.
However the nature of US poverty is much different & worse than UK poverty, due to structural factors & social factors.
It may be hard for OP to fully grasp the situation in South Carolina - which is likely to affect where she can live there & the quality of her healthcare, as well as the quality of the school her child will go to - or the especially violent nature of US racism overall.
I would kindly suggest OP think less about organic food & more about the basic situation of Black people, particularly as a foreigner, in today's Trump-loving, racist South Carolina.
I suggest she visit before making any decisions.
Adding to the issues with Black maternal care in SC, it is worth noting that they currently have a 6-week abortion ban (effectively a total ban). There are exceptions if the pregnancy is threatening your life, but just be aware that isn’t the case in all states (that is, in some states it is illegal for a doctor to try to save your life). And birth control is currently under threat. Just something to be aware of.
Edit: I wasn’t completely correct: all states seem to currently have an exception for death of the pregnant person, but not necessarily for health risks to the pregnant person. The comment below is what I was thinking of (that the reality is different).
The abortion ban also means that if you have a pregnancy that is medically ‘high risk’ many obgyns will refused to treat to treat you for fear of being accused of performing an abortion should you miscarry
In practice, this means that doctors have to wait until some situations develop into full-blown sepsis before treating. So they have to wait for a bad situation to turn into a catastrophic situation, and this means that survival odds are much lower. Here's an example from Texas: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/16/health/abortion-texas-sepsis/index.html
Not to mention SC has a minority Senator that perpetuates the same pro white supremacy and disdain for immigrants and diversity
Have you ever been to South Carolina?
Yes, I have! On the way to Florida. Had some nice pulled pork & nearly wept at the rural poverty. Which is appalling.
My list of reasons for leaving:
Military spending (a trillion dollars spent on our military while we don't have healthcare). So fucking stupid and unnecessary. INB4 anyone calls me anti-military or accuses me of not appreciating the military, please know I have 9 years under my belt in the US military (1993 > 2002).
Gun culture (the right has decided that dead school children are acceptable losses for "muh guns"). It's sickening and disgusting.
Religion (it's batshit crazy to me that politicians bring religion into policy). Most recently, Louisiana requiring public schools to display the Ten Commandments. What. The. Actual. Fuck. What does that school board say to parents of Islamic children? Or those parents who are raising their kids to be Atheist or Agnostic? This is why private Christian schools exist. With any luck, the ACLU gets this shot down but the fact it made it this far is borderline lunacy. TX also tried passing a similar bill.
Healthcare or lack thereof. We could/should cut military spending by 40% and establish universal health. Or at least use the money saved to provide every American with an "allowance" of sort for healthcare needs to cover the amounts over and above what their insurance covers.
Police. Yes, I know that every country has issues with police but 'murica seems to take it to a new level. Shoot first, ask questions later, zero accountability. An officer does something so egregious that they actually get fired from the police department? No problem, just go work for the force in the next city/county/state. American Cops = Gangs With Badges
Republican politicians. I'm purposely drawing a line between the politicians of that party and their constituents. I know A LOT of wonderful Republican people who are absolutely entitled to their views just like I am entitled to mine. But, the Republican politicians from the US are some of the most vile, repugnant, and monstrous human beings on the planet.
Abortion. The US is one of the very few nations in the world that actually rolled back abortion rights in recent years. The government forcing its citizens to grow people inside of them is absolutely fucking abhorrent and disgusting. Said differently, old white men telling young women what they can and can't do with their bodies is some truly deplorable shit. Fuck you, SCOTUS. Fuck you, R-Governors (e.g., DeSatan and Abbott) who refuse to put it to a popular vote like Kansas did. They know they would lose (i.e., abortion being legal would pass), so they refuse to even put it to a vote. Talk about being chicken-shit, little bitch pussies. Why any woman in the US votes Republican is beyond my simple-minded comprehension abilities.
Pretty good summary. I would add: rigged systems that favors big corporations and capital over the wellbeing of the citizens. Like... education, universities make millions out of teenagers getting in debt, food industry being allowed to use toxic chemicals in food production, no public transportation while car makers get incentives and bailouts, and the list goes on and on...
Upvote a million times. Fuck yes.
Airman Roger Fortson’s shooting would be enough to deter me from going to a country like the US
Where are you now?
Please don't do this. The pay increase won't be worth the shit show you will have to deal with in the U.S. especially in the South. Even if it was a purple state, it'd be questionable, but the south has the worst education system. Your health isn't worth the risk either. Our Healthcare is a shit show and tied to your job. Also, we don't get decent time off! If you're lucky, you'll get two weeks a year, and you might not get paid maternity leave! Don't do it!
I wish you the best OP.
Thank you. I am gleaning that. The pay is $200k as a senior project manager, but I feel that the risks are really high.
That salary would go far in Greenville, in general. But it's not high enough after taxes, childcare, etc to deal with all this nonsense for 3-5 years.
why does a 5 yr old with a stay at home mom need daycare?
Don't know. Ask OP. She mentioned the cost of childcare in the US as a concern.
Trust me, it don't matter if he's going to make a million a year. Some things money can't buy. The answers here will tell you that.
Do not move here unless trump losses. You are risking moving to an extremely unstable country if he wins.
If your health is at risk I would never move to the Deep South. NYC or Boston maybe if your husbands employer has great health insurance benefits but $200k is nothing in NYC so no. It is quite a bit of money in SC but don’t forget daycare is insanely expensive here. Then you have to deal with culture shock and racism which is hard to put a monetary value on. If you have to abandon family in UK it’s even worse. It’s also not that easy to make close friends in the US , rather superficial relations than in Europe. They all call one another “friend” but not really… hyper individualism… My 2 cents
Have a look at the black maternal mortality rates there. It's not pretty.
At that salary in Greenville you can be almost completely insulated from your concerns. Quality health insurance is easily available for a price, his employer likely pays most of the costs and anything you need will be available high quality almost on demand. Every city has well-to-do portions that have well-funded, high-quality public education. It is filled with educated transplants from around the world and UK-via-Ghana won't particularly stick out.
It seems you believe you're moving to a rural part of the blue ridge mountains, which I wouldn't recommend to anyone. Go to Greenville, scout the neighborhood and schools, don't make major life decisions based on Reddit doomsayers. My mother was born and raised in UK and made the decision of US over UK and has not regretted it.
Was your mother black in South Carolina?
That is not enough for this country. Do not move. You WILL find yourself trapped by debt.
That is true, there is the fantasy that in the US the big salary will lead to a better life. Do the math and you may be able to save more living in the UK than in the US after the expenses plus you can have more time to actually spend it with family and leisure, also peace of mind, the US has very unstable/medicated people owning guns and driving huge pick up trucks all around, just google the statistic of number of shootings and highway accidents, you will be surprised...
You have a British accent, so this will throw off a lot of Americans. You will most likely notice people's demeanor change when they hear your accent. There are many many Black Britons in America who have noticed this.
The reality is that you will not have the same experience as Black Americans because the accent will throw people off. Both White and Black Americans will be thrown off by the accent
Absolutely my experience as a white, Western, female and native English speaking immigrant who lived in NYC for 10 yrs and worked/travelled all over. I was misunderstood on the daily and being anywhere rural/in the south was a nightmare to be understood. People just get thrown by the accent and can’t compute. And you’re already dealing with Idiocracy. I once had a govt employee from NY dept of health say he couldn’t understand me bc he didn’t speak Spanish. I was speaking English with an accent.
I live in Georgia an hour outside Atlanta. We have Africans, small expat community of Brits and Germans here. No one is struggling to understand each other.
Yeah, but which accent? I'd be shocked if was English (as opposed to Irish, Scottish, Welsh, etc; British isn't an accent--Americans use this to mean the way the Windsors speak) as they would have been "yes, ma'am-ing" right quick, not short circuiting and thinking they were hearing a different language altogether?
Unfortunately there are also people who will not listen to what people say or how well spoken they are, or their accent. They see the color of your skin and make immediate judgements. It's depressing.
Not necessarily the case
Frequently tho
You basically answered your own question. If you can rent your house in the UK so that you have an easy way out if things don’t work as planned that would be the way to go. Racism is still very real in a lot of the U.S. but especially the south. Also, how would you feel about your daughter having to go through active shooter drills in school, and the trauma those may cause?
I'm Choctaw and Sicangu Sioux. I'm a Two Spirit born female. I don't like the way the government is heading in terms of abortion rights and other things.
I've had some really awful experiences with homophobia, transphobia, and racism. I've almost been murdered twice and the police were useless. Same with when I've been raped.
I'm not looking to stick around and become another MMIW statistic.
I'd also like to add I've seen two shootings (no one got hit) this year alone where I was so close I ran away for cover.
What all the other comments said. I would absolutely not go to South Carolina of all places considering all your circumstances. All of these things worry me BUT if you do go I would absolutely not have a baby over there for your sake. The rate of maternal mortality for black women in the US is staggeringly high (look up what happened to Serena Williams and she's like a billionaire). Couple that with anti abortion measures and if something happens during your pregnancy I'd be very worried for your life.
Cars - ruinous for quality of life, expensive to own and maintain. Sitting in long commutes turning people into fatasses. Driving to a gym to run on a treadmill, the height of irony.
Guns - barbaric, unnecessary tools for killing that don't need to be in the hands of the average citizen in a civilized society. Tied into this notion of "rugged individualism," defending oneself and one's property, and an everyone out for themselves mentality, which are likewise antithetical to the concepts of community and society and contribute to a nation of selfish assholes.
Overly processed foods and unregulated capitalism - big agriculture, etc. leading to obesity and the normalization of being overweight as "healthy" (see aforementioned fatassedness). Also, unregulated capitalism leading to growing income disparity and a skyrocketing cost of living for 99% of the US population, while the 1% grow ever richer like the greedy bastards they are.
Those are the top three. Not to mention extortionate privatized healthcare, anti-intellectualism, lack of investment in higher education for all, toxic masculinity in popular culture, etc. etc. make the USA very much a place to GTFO of.
you will be stunned at the out-of-control obesity epidemic in the American South. It's a problem in the entire country, but in states like South Carolina, omg...and it even affects children and young people.
We were raised by the food pyramid, thanks Big Sugar
Agree with much of this, but as you can see, OP, fat-phobia is very much a thing in the U.S. as well. While it’s true we have a problem with heavily processed foods and lack of healthy options in low income areas, our stressful lifestyles, raised cortisol levels, and impending sense of dread about our futures as Americans contribute to our obesity epidemic.
It's all connected. Whenever I come back to the USA after an extended amount to time abroad, I can't help but notice the sheer size of people. You can call it fat-phobia, but obesity on a societal level is not something that should be normalized, much like guns ought not to be normalized either. The USA is very much an unhealthy society, and obesity, with all its attendant issues, is simply a very visible symptom of that. Valuing one's physical and mental health and the ability to more easily maintain them are big reasons to AmerExit.
I just met a woman who is staying in a small rural town in Michigan (close to my town) from London and she was saying that she was shocked at American obesity. We live in an area where you have to drive every where. It’s a much different life than in the UK.
I'm in the UK several months out of the year. On the absolutely rare occasion I need a car, I rent one. Never "need" one actually, it's always for something like a fun Sunday outing, like driving to Stonehenge or whatever. For normal daily life, I just walk everywhere or take the train.
Foods are far less processed; organic is often the default, not something you have to pay a premium for. A package of tomatoes at the supermarket will have a label on it with the name of the farmer who grew them.
Go into the EU and the differences are even more apparent. Farmers markets and specialized shops - neighborhood butchers, greengrocers, etc. are the norm. You might need a car if you live in a village, but even then there will be a train stop connecting most places.
Are you able to wait until after the November election to make a decision?
Edit: The OP is concerned about safety nets as well as policies and culture that more often than not doesn’t fair well when Republicans are at the helm. If the state she moves to state and the surrounding states have republican politicians when the US has a Democrat president, that is a very different reality than if it is a Republican state with a Republican president in office, or Democratic politicians with a Republican president. I hate that it’s like that, but that appears to be how it is in this decade.
This. What happens in November will make a HUGE difference.
Been hearing that for decades. Every previous election was someone’s last election
Last time Trump won it triggered 4 years of the worst shit from people because they knew they would get away with it.
Yeah that’s what I mean. The fascists won a long time ago. Trump is the effect, not the cause
That's fair, but it's more true now than ever. One side has Project 2025, the other believes (generally) in majority rule. One is a definite slide into fascism and minority rule, the other gives us a chance to fight another day. Your binary thinking is going to get brown people thrown into cages (again). You cool with that?
My point is more that the fascists won a long time ago, and as long as we keep thinking it’s just one election away, we’ll never defeat it
Whomever is in there nothing changes. Politicians continue to become rich inside trading and blame each other for problems that neither of them have the will to solve and plenty of opportunities to do so, healthcare remains inaccessible and homelessness present regardless of who’s in power. It’s a sham
Except for the whole "one side openly saying they wish to establish one party rule" thing. Like entirely by their own admission.
I’m an Independent voter and that’s how I feel. I still won’t vote for a party taking us back decades though
BS dude. The "everyone is the same" is why Trump won in the first place.