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Hawise (Quincy) de Vere (abt.1210-abt.1273) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree
Hawise was the daughter of Saher de Quincy, Knt., 1st Earl of Winchester, and Margaret, daughter of Robert de Bréteuil, Knt., 2nd Earl of Leicester[1] Cawley suggests she was probably born between 1200 and 1212.[2] It is more likely to have been 1210 or later as her husband was born in about 1210. Her mother is shown as "Beaumont" in Medlands: Margaret of Leicester, daughter of Robert de Beaumont Earl of Leicester.[2]
Hawise married Hugh de Vere, 4th Earl of Oxford. In February 1223 her mother agreed to pay a fine of 400 marks, payable in instalments, to the Crown for Hawise's marriage to Hugh de Vere.[3][1] Hugh, son of Robert de Vere and his wife Isabel de Bolebec, was born about 1210 "(came of age in 1231)". They had one son and three daughters:[1]
Hawise was living in 1273 and died on 3 February (year unknown). She and her husband Hugh, who died before 23 December 1263, were buried at Earls Colne.[1]
Research Notes
Disputed Children
The following profiles were detached from Hawise and her husband Hugh de Vere (13, 16 October 2018). Please contact the Magna Carta Project if you find a primary source supporting the relationship.
↑ 1.01.11.21.31.41.51.61.71.8 Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), Volume V, page 253 VERE #2. Hugh de Vere, Knt.; Volume IV, page 446 QUINCY #6.vii. Hawise de Quincy
↑ 2.02.1 Charles Cawley. Hawise de Quincy, entry in "Medieval Lands" database (accessed 16 October 2018)
↑ Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Roll C 60/18, 7 HENRY III (1222–1223), entry 83, web, accessed 3 October 2021
↑ 4.04.14.2 The De Vere Society, Oxford Pedigree Tree (pdf), which notes information is mostly from The Complete Peerage, but CP lists only Robert, Isabel, Laura, and Margaret.
G. E. Cockayne, The Complete Peerage (London, England: St. Catherine Press, 1945), Volume X, p 215. See WikiTree's source page for The Complete Peerage for links to online copies.
Browning, Charles H., (2002). Magna Charta Barons, 1915. Baronial Order of Runnemede. pp.315. Google Books.
Weis, F.L. (1988). Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came to New England between 1623 and 1650, (6th ed., pp.60-28). Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.
Hawise de Quincy, "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors and Cousins" (website, compiled by Mr. Marlyn Lewis, Portland, OR; accessed 16 October 2018)
Acknowledgements
Thank you to Carol McDonald for contributing information from the Fine and Patent Rolls.
George Yate (MCA IV:395-397 YATE): badged July 2022. See trail HERE.
Hawise (Quincy) de Vere appears in unbadged trails (needing work) to the following Gateways:
Blakiston Gateways (Nehemiah and George): trail needs development. See it HERE.
See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail". See Base Camp for information about identified trails and their status.
one last question. She has the "House of De Vere" sticker. Should she also (instead?) have the "House of Quincy" sticker? (if so, what would the image be for it?)
Thanks y'all. I've changed the datafields for birth/death location to just England (no proof, but likely). Let me know if you think that should be removed too.
Cheers, Liz
P. S. I also changed the EuroAristo project box to a sticker (for England nobility/aristocracy). John/Darlene - If the project wants to co-manage the profile, that's fine. Just change sticker back to project box & add your project account as a manager.
Liz, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this line of my ancestors. Do you think Hugh married at age 13 and then their first child was born 11 years later? Is it more likely that the marriage date is show as perhaps 5 or more years earlier than it should be? I know sometimes children were married off very young, but it seems unlikely that even as a teenager, they would have been childless for 11 years. Or, given the age of Hugh's father, perhaps Hugh was born closer to 1200-1205? Or both? Thoughts?
Thanks, Harold. The birth date for Hawise is unknown. I have changed the estimate to about 1210 in the date field, which is the approximate year her husband was born (he came of age in 1231). It may well have been a few years later - we just do not know. I will modify what is said about her birth year in the bio. With an unknown birth year and no other indication, I myself prefer to use rounded dates - rounded to …5 or …0 - as anything else give a spurious and misleading impression of precision.
As you recognise, marriages in earlyish childhood were quite common for people of this class in this period.
Just to add that we do not have a birth date for her first child. It could have been several years before 1234. If you look at the daughters' profiles you will see the uncertainties and use of the word ”before” on Isabel’s profile. The birth dates given for the other daughters we know about are little more than guesstimates. The only child for whom we have a reasonably firm birth date is son Robert. And there may have been other children of whom no record has yet been found. This absence of information is common in medieval times.
Sussex Square, London would not have existed at the time. It did not exist until centuries later, in a part of London that was not developed until much later. So it should definitely be omitted as death place. If you see a place name like Sussex Square for this period, it is almost guaranteed to be wrong.
We do not know the exact date Hawise was born, or even the year, so it is too much of a stretch to think we know where she was born.
I checked several sources and found nothing specific. The great barons had many properties, and also had to be in London for events. Hugh as the Hereditary Master Chamberlain of England would participate in ceremonial events. We simply do not know.
Also, I cannot find any reference to Sussex Square in reference to where Hawise died. Again, we do not even know the year.
I agree Liz, it would be best to leave the place of birth blank, and I think that is also true of the location for her death.
If someone comes up with evidence for one or both, then it can be changed.
My own view is that it would be preferable to leave the birthplace blank. Earl of Winchester was just a title. It does not give a presumption that children were born at Winchester.
I can't find a source to support birth/death locations. Is "Winchester, Hampshire, England" reasonable, considering her father was Earl of Winchester? (Although, if she was born 1212, his "wikisource" ODNB article says he was " From 1211 to 1214 he acted as a justiciar, sitting at the exchequer in 1212 (Foss, Judges, ii. 111), when he was also sent as ambassador to the emperor, Otto IV (Fdera, i. 104; cf. p. 108)." - would his wife have been with him or "gone home" to give birth? (If "Winchester, Hampshire" would've been home.)
Not sure where "Sussex Square, London, Middlesex, England" came from for death. Richardson & Cawley both have her buried at Earls Colne, which i saw on his profile given as the Colne Priory in Essex.
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This rootsweb tree says 1195 for birth of Hawise.
Given the source info, to include that she was living in 1273, I think that changing the birth year for the mother to c1170 is called for.
Thanks again, Liz
Cheers, Liz
P. S. I also changed the EuroAristo project box to a sticker (for England nobility/aristocracy). John/Darlene - If the project wants to co-manage the profile, that's fine. Just change sticker back to project box & add your project account as a manager.
edited by Harold Bullock
As you recognise, marriages in earlyish childhood were quite common for people of this class in this period.
edited by Michael Cayley
I checked several sources and found nothing specific. The great barons had many properties, and also had to be in London for events. Hugh as the Hereditary Master Chamberlain of England would participate in ceremonial events. We simply do not know.
Also, I cannot find any reference to Sussex Square in reference to where Hawise died. Again, we do not even know the year.
I agree Liz, it would be best to leave the place of birth blank, and I think that is also true of the location for her death.
If someone comes up with evidence for one or both, then it can be changed.
Not sure where "Sussex Square, London, Middlesex, England" came from for death. Richardson & Cawley both have her buried at Earls Colne, which i saw on his profile given as the Colne Priory in Essex.
Help?