Hawise (Quincy) de Vere (abt.1210-abt.1273) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree
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Hawise (Quincy) de Vere (abt. 1210 - abt. 1273)

Hawise de Vere formerly Quincy aka de Quincy
Born about in Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married after 11 Feb 1223 in Englandmap [uncertain]
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 63 in Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 28 Apr 2011
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Contents

Biography

The House of de Quincy crest.
Hawise (Quincy) de Vere is a member of the House of de Quincy.

Hawise de Quincy[1]

Hawise was the daughter of Saher de Quincy, Knt., 1st Earl of Winchester, and Margaret, daughter of Robert de Bréteuil, Knt., 2nd Earl of Leicester[1] Cawley suggests she was probably born between 1200 and 1212.[2] It is more likely to have been 1210 or later as her husband was born in about 1210. Her mother is shown as "Beaumont" in Medlands: Margaret of Leicester, daughter of Robert de Beaumont Earl of Leicester.[2]
Hawise married Hugh de Vere, 4th Earl of Oxford. In February 1223 her mother agreed to pay a fine of 400 marks, payable in instalments, to the Crown for Hawise's marriage to Hugh de Vere.[3][1] Hugh, son of Robert de Vere and his wife Isabel de Bolebec, was born about 1210 "(came of age in 1231)". They had one son and three daughters:[1]
Hawise was living in 1273 and died on 3 February (year unknown). She and her husband Hugh, who died before 23 December 1263, were buried at Earls Colne.[1]

Research Notes

Disputed Children

The following profiles were detached from Hawise and her husband Hugh de Vere (13, 16 October 2018). Please contact the Magna Carta Project if you find a primary source supporting the relationship.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), Volume V, page 253 VERE #2. Hugh de Vere, Knt.; Volume IV, page 446 QUINCY #6.vii. Hawise de Quincy
  2. 2.0 2.1 Charles Cawley. Hawise de Quincy, entry in "Medieval Lands" database (accessed 16 October 2018)
  3. Henry III Fine Rolls Project, Fine Roll C 60/18, 7 HENRY III (1222–1223), entry 83, web, accessed 3 October 2021
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 The De Vere Society, Oxford Pedigree Tree (pdf), which notes information is mostly from The Complete Peerage, but CP lists only Robert, Isabel, Laura, and Margaret.
    • G. E. Cockayne, The Complete Peerage (London, England: St. Catherine Press, 1945), Volume X, p 215. See WikiTree's source page for The Complete Peerage for links to online copies.
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 http://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/uv/vere1.php (log in required)

Acknowledgements

Thank you to Carol McDonald for contributing information from the Fine and Patent Rolls.

Magna Carta Project

Hawise de Quincy, daughter of Magna Carta surety baron Saher de Quincy, is in project-approved/badged trails to several Gateway Ancestors, including:
Hawise (Quincy) de Vere appears in unbadged trails (needing work) to the following Gateways:
See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail". See Base Camp for information about identified trails and their status.






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Comments: 13

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1212 is from Cawley, which says 1200-1212 & has marriage of parents "before 1190" & Margaret born before 1172 (her WikiTree profile has abut 1154).

This rootsweb tree says 1195 for birth of Hawise.

Given the source info, to include that she was living in 1273, I think that changing the birth year for the mother to c1170 is called for.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Child would have been born when the mother was 58 years old?
posted by Kevin Nauta
one last question. She has the "House of De Vere" sticker. Should she also (instead?) have the "House of Quincy" sticker? (if so, what would the image be for it?)

Thanks again, Liz

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Thanks y'all. I've changed the datafields for birth/death location to just England (no proof, but likely). Let me know if you think that should be removed too.

Cheers, Liz

P. S. I also changed the EuroAristo project box to a sticker (for England nobility/aristocracy). John/Darlene - If the project wants to co-manage the profile, that's fine. Just change sticker back to project box & add your project account as a manager.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Liz, you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this line of my ancestors. Do you think Hugh married at age 13 and then their first child was born 11 years later? Is it more likely that the marriage date is show as perhaps 5 or more years earlier than it should be? I know sometimes children were married off very young, but it seems unlikely that even as a teenager, they would have been childless for 11 years. Or, given the age of Hugh's father, perhaps Hugh was born closer to 1200-1205? Or both? Thoughts?
posted by Harold Bullock
edited by Harold Bullock
Thanks, Harold. The birth date for Hawise is unknown. I have changed the estimate to about 1210 in the date field, which is the approximate year her husband was born (he came of age in 1231). It may well have been a few years later - we just do not know. I will modify what is said about her birth year in the bio. With an unknown birth year and no other indication, I myself prefer to use rounded dates - rounded to …5 or …0 - as anything else give a spurious and misleading impression of precision.

As you recognise, marriages in earlyish childhood were quite common for people of this class in this period.

posted by Michael Cayley
Just to add that we do not have a birth date for her first child. It could have been several years before 1234. If you look at the daughters' profiles you will see the uncertainties and use of the word ”before” on Isabel’s profile. The birth dates given for the other daughters we know about are little more than guesstimates. The only child for whom we have a reasonably firm birth date is son Robert. And there may have been other children of whom no record has yet been found. This absence of information is common in medieval times.
posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Sussex Square, London would not have existed at the time. It did not exist until centuries later, in a part of London that was not developed until much later. So it should definitely be omitted as death place. If you see a place name like Sussex Square for this period, it is almost guaranteed to be wrong.
posted by Michael Cayley
We do not know the exact date Hawise was born, or even the year, so it is too much of a stretch to think we know where she was born.

I checked several sources and found nothing specific. The great barons had many properties, and also had to be in London for events. Hugh as the Hereditary Master Chamberlain of England would participate in ceremonial events. We simply do not know.

Also, I cannot find any reference to Sussex Square in reference to where Hawise died. Again, we do not even know the year.

I agree Liz, it would be best to leave the place of birth blank, and I think that is also true of the location for her death.

If someone comes up with evidence for one or both, then it can be changed.

My own view is that it would be preferable to leave the birthplace blank. Earl of Winchester was just a title. It does not give a presumption that children were born at Winchester.
posted by Michael Cayley
I can't find a source to support birth/death locations. Is "Winchester, Hampshire, England" reasonable, considering her father was Earl of Winchester? (Although, if she was born 1212, his "wikisource" ODNB article says he was " From 1211 to 1214 he acted as a justiciar, sitting at the exchequer in 1212 (Foss, Judges, ii. 111), when he was also sent as ambassador to the emperor, Otto IV (Fœdera, i. 104; cf. p. 108)." - would his wife have been with him or "gone home" to give birth? (If "Winchester, Hampshire" would've been home.)

Not sure where "Sussex Square, London, Middlesex, England" came from for death. Richardson & Cawley both have her buried at Earls Colne, which i saw on his profile given as the Colne Priory in Essex.

Help?

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

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Categories: Quincy-226 Descendants | Magna Carta | House of de Quincy