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In retrospect, Olivia Rodrigo having Alanis Morissette in Rolling Stone’s special cover was a smart move.
I remember how disappointed I was that it was Alanis Morissette instead of Taylor, because it is clear that Swift has more influence on her.
However, in retrospect, Olivia Rodrigo having Alanis Morissette for the Rolling Stone’s special issue/cover was a smart move.
With the songwriting credit issue, the similarities of Taylor’s imgonnagetyouback and Olivia’s get him back!, Taylor’s on-going immature at 34 years old, her admitting about how a certain new young artist have more edge than her (who is obviously Olivia), I am happy Olivia had Alanis Morissette in the cover with her.
Olivia, sweetie, if you have burner account, don’t address anything that Taylor has said. You are doing a great job, sweetie. 💋
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I am loving all the love that Olivia has been getting from 90s female icons. It’s so sweet
It's been really smart of her. Taylor focuses on the younger artists because she tries to build up loyalty from them. Olivia has spoken about being excluded from the groups and mentoring. Olivia paying homage to those who paved the way before her is not just smart but also shows respect. I love watching her pivot. She could have easily drowned under the pressure while she's had the most powerful artist in the world (along with her cult and croonies) pushing her under but she refuses to stay down. She's the underdog that Taylor pretends to be.
I don't know I would call her an underdog. She was Disneys golden child with a sizable built on fanbase/name recognition, and had basically the most ideal launch humanely imaginable.
I would say she's a new kid on the block, and she's handled navigating a weird situation very well. Moreso than being an uphill battle in the industry itself, I feel like your childhood hero defacto disavowing you would be really psychologically damaging. Like I would be devastated and inconsolable. Her approach of just refusing to talk about it in any capacity and focusing on establishing a unique brand identity is smart.
As someone who doesn't follow pop culture all like that and see these threads randomly pop up on my feed, I will always enjoy the lore
I mean in this game she is. Even in fairy tales the plucky princess is still a princess…
That’s funny, I like how you pulled that analogy
I didn’t know she was a Disney star, I had never heard of her in that capacity. In fairness I’m not au fait with Disney programming.
Her show was buried and shown at odd times.It was about YouTube stars but they called it something else. She and her costars weren't funneled into other shows or part of the original movies. One of the Paul brothers was on it for the first season or two. It seemed to be more of away for Disney to capitalize on the streamer trend than an attempt at launching the kids.
Her character was part of a parody duet that was basically a clean version of Garfunkel and Oats. One of my kids has non-24 so we're up all the time it came on late at night. I think that's the only reason I even saw it.
Yeah same. I was surprised even. I remember the first time i heard of her, it was hearing the song “Brutal”! I thought it was badass
She was nowhere near a golden child at Disney. She was on the roster but not a main girl… even her show wasn’t on the main channel and she wasn’t signed to their label. . Sabrina Carpenter was closer to main girl status than Olivia Rodrigo was.
Not to say she didn’t benefit from the Disney exposure. She did. But she had nowhere near the level of focus of some of the other girls Disney featured at the time.
Both Olivia and Joe have chosen silence (or been sentenced to it through an NDA) and it makes them come out looking so good, while Taylor keeps digging herself deeper.
No she wasn't at all, what a dumb thought.
Think Raven Symone, Miley Cyrus, Hilary Duff, Selena Gomez...Like this girl never had any "star-power" treatment. She was a regular ass girl who started working YOUNG AS FUCK and it just happened to be a Disney show.
Agree with your second point though
Lmao sometimes I can't believe yall insult others bc you didn't like their comment about your fave, right or wrong 😂
I definitely wouldn’t call her an underdog. Someone like Sabrina Carpenter would fit that label. She wasn’t even lead actor on her Disney show and was signed to Disney’s in-house label, Hollywood Records and had to wait until her contract finished to sign to a new label, where she could make more mature music.
Olivia was very privileged in comparison since she was the lead, had a built in fan base, and was able to sign to a major non-Disney label without having to bide her time. She was also able to negotiate to retain her masters in the deal and swear in her debut single.
There’s very few debut artists nowadays especially coming from Disney that would be able to have those privileges.
Sabrina Carpenter is a nepo baby.
She’s also walking the walk when it comes to her politics. There was an author who wrote about intersectionality when it comes to feminism/WOC and it’s written from her perspective ( a black woman) and she was talking about how Olivia had ordered the book.
Olivia then comments something really sweet along the lines of “I want to do better and I love your book! “
What she’s doing at her concerts with the plan b and condoms is really cool. Especially in the deeply red states.
I will always support her because of it
She did a really good job getting out from under Taylor’s thumb. I think her team initially thought that marketing her as the next Taylor Swift would go well, which it did to an extent, but it also made her the target of jealous Swifties. I thought it was cute that she grew up listening to Taylor and felt inspired, it was so gross when the swifties turned on her for no reason. I’m glad she did this pivot to more of a rock based sound because it’s helping her carve out her own space as a musician. Her connection with artists like Alanis and No Doubt shows her respect for the industry and the women who came before her.
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I think Taylor likes to take artists she doesn't see as real competition under her wing. She probably saw Olivia as maybe just having the one early big hit and then being "online" famous for most of her career, but she didn't expect how objectively huge SOUR would be, both critically and commercially, with her teenage, honest, relationship-focused album very reminiscent of early Taylor (not at all in sound just theme/narrative). I feel like this is the case because of how genuine and collaborative she was with Olivia at first (clearing the New Years Day sample well before SOUR came out, referring to her as her kid) but then Olivia blew tf up and was known in the mainstream. I think Taylor was bitter over believing she was on her way out in terms of career relevance after Lover's underperformance and Olivia was seemingly a replacement coming right up to take her spot, so she said fuck it, hit the self destruct button and let the credits situation happen without at least voicing her disapproval like Hayley did.
lol it made her the target of a jealous Taylor first!
I love Olivia more. She’s just so cool!
When has Olivia spoken ab feeling excluded from groups and mentoring ? I'd like to read/watch!
I can't remember the exact article but it wasn't a big read anyways. There was some talk of Taylor mentoring younger artists and she was asked some Taylor questions so she just mentioned being hurt by being excluded in Taylor's mentoring. The Swifties at the time took that as a new proclamation of war but it was really casual in the conversation.
Fetty Wap's description of Taylor's mentoring is hilarious:
I mean, it’s on brand for Taylor to alienate women she’s threatened by …. Soo….. makes sense.
"She's the underdog that Taylor pretends to be" hits so hard
I used to watch her on bizaardvark and it makes me really happy to see how well she’s doing, and how well she’s doing it 🥰
Respectfully, I don’t see how this has anything to do with Taylor and it’s kinda exhausting seeing her brought up in every single conversation about Olivia. Olivia didn’t pivot. Im sure she had other artist she liked other than Taylor and Olivia has been leaning in the the 90s sounds because the 90s style is very popular among Gen Z right now which has nothing to do with Taylor. 90s female icons praising Olivia being kind to her has nothing to do with Taylor
I wholeheartedly agree with this take. Taylor doesn’t need to even be mentioned regarding this shoot.
Her songs were super catchy but I was just like eh another pop girl who is gonna fade away bc tswift has some super powers (not a fan of her) and I have actually really enjoyed all her songs and she seems like a good person
eta: her like angry fuck boys whatever shit has got me going. I was a massive Avril fan as a kid so this is like exciting to me 😂
I’m starting to think us older Olivia Rodrigo fans (side note: do her fans have a group name yet?) were all Avril fans in our youth
I've seen older fans calling themselves the RodrigOlds
I’m partial to Rodrig-hoes, but I’ve seen Livvies used the most I think?
I love Rodrig-hoes.
Early Avril was so amazing, and then one day a song came in the radio and I was like "wtf is this" and I don't think I've liked a single song since. Well one, but in a sort of trashy irony-adjacent way, like I also liked "Selfie" while recognizing it as lowbrow trash
Teenage me felt personally betrayed when she started wearing so much pink around 2007
I loved everything about her aesthetic and music for those first two albums
The newest album, I really like. I took a LONG break from her (Best Damn Thing through to whatever came before Love Sux), but I enjoy a good Love Sux sesh.
ONTD calls us RodrigOlds
I think they’re called “Livies”! Super cute.
Even as someone who likes Taylor, I don't like that you can hear how many of the current young up-and-comers all studied the Taylor Swift School of Songwriting. It makes them all blend together and feel forgettable, and they'll all be stuck under her shadow as long as she's so successful
Olivia being forced to carve out her own lane away from Taylor might be one of the best things to happen to her in the long run
I love the female rage too so Olivia is perfect for me
I'm curious as to who you mean, just because I know they all cite her as a major influence but I really don't hear it at all in Olivia or Sabrina Carpenter's stuff (at least her newer music anyway because she has loads of older stuff I haven't checked out yet). Not only do their songs appeal to me more sonically but they're also much stronger vocally and as live performers (which is funny since Sabrina has been opening for her on tour). And yet I put off listening to both their music for a while because I assumed it would sound just like Taylor's.
I guess that explains why TS tried to claim female rage as her thing in the Time interview!
I’m here for a riot grrrl resurgence.
Olivia, I have high hopes!
As an old I can’t tell you how much I love it when these young artists respect and pay tribute to those who helped paved the way before them. It’s so wholesome.
I’m not familiar with Olivia’s music but she comes across as a very sweet girl and Alanis is an icon.
If anyone has a short explainer on this Taylor Olivia situation please help me as never followed what happened there?
As a fellow Old, if you listened to Olivia’s albums and lyrics, you’d hear the Alanis without people even telling you. I adore they’re familiar with one another.
Another old in agreement here!
So many olds in favor of the freshest batch of yoots! 🥰
Nice to meet you🫡
Thank you, that sounds very interesting, are there any standout songs you’d recommended me go to?
Back at you! 🤍🫂
Check out All-American Bitch first. I actually think it’s about Taylor but, it gives sincere ‘90s vibes without sounding like it’s trying to be ‘90s. I think you’ll best be able to feel the particular female attitude I’m referencing from that one.
Even her performance style! I always got baby!alanis from her
Very much! I think Gen X and Gen Z have a lot of parallels in certain attitudes the same way Boomers and Millennials do. I see it between Olivia and a lot of ‘90s artists I love(d).
Super short explanation:
One of Olivia’s biggest hits is Deja Vu. The bridge of Deja Vu sounds similar to the bridge to Taylor’s song, Cruel Summer. Taylor in some way is now getting royalties from Deja Vu. Unclear how much choice Olivia had in the matter and how much direct involvement Taylor had in the matter. Olivia had previously had a semi-close relationship with Taylor as many saw her as the new Taylor, but they haven’t really done much together since the Deja Vu thing.
As the other commenter said, if you want a more specific timeline check out this post from r/swiftlyneutral.
I still feel like it’s ridiculous that Taylor gets royalties for Deja Vu. Like I guess you can hear the inspo from Cruel Summer, but I don’t think it’s similar enough for Taylor, Jack, & St. Vincent to be taking in 50% of the song’s royalties. If an artist had done this to Taylor in the early stages of her career, you know we’d still be hearing about it to this day. I can’t imagine growing up idolizing someone and the having them stomp on me and my dreams like that. I’m not in the camp that believes Taylor sued for this but she obviously took some sort of legal action to gain that credit.
Taylor should then be paying Ace of Base for ripping off the song title. This crap is ridiculous (I'm still salty about Bittersweet Symphony).
The Bittersweet Symphony debacle is just SO wild. It's probably the only song the Verve will be remembered for and all that money goes to the Rolling Stones. Yikes.
Edit: apparently they were forced to give all rights to the song to RS but apparently in 2019, the rights were given back to Richard Ashcroft (songwriter for the Verve). Can't get that money back, but it's certainly a better ending than I thought.
Bananarama originally did Cruel Summer. Ace of Base covered it
Should also be paying Lana for Wildest Dreams…
It really is completely ridiculous. It just seems petty to me, especially because it’s one of Olivia’s biggest hits. Taylor’s career started with a song called Tim McGraw, she has no right to come after newer artists for being inspired by her.
You mean Bananarama.
I don’t understand the comparison of Olivia to Taylor. She’s mountains more mature sounding then Taylor is to this day.
I agree. On a maturity level, Guts and TTPD feel similar which is funny because one was written by a 19/20 year old and the other by a 33/34 year old 🫤
It also feels like artists can’t just be inspired by other artists without being fully pounced upon by the artists that inspired their sound. There’s a “totally sounds like” genre of reel and YouTube video that tries to pick apart songs to find similarities. I hate it because what is music and songwriting but taking all the things you’ve experienced - life and music -and synthesizing it?
But in Olivia’s case, I guess that’s what happens when you build an enormous fan base overnight. Unfortunate.
I would argue the bridge to Deja Vu and the bridge to Cruel Summer don’t actually even sound similar. However, Olivia Rodrigo naively made some comment in an interview along the lines of wanting to have the screaming bridge that Cruel Summer had in Deja Vu. Not positive, she might have even admitted pulling from Cruel Summer in the beginning for inspiration. Again, end result is two totally different songs, in my opinion (you should listen for yourself). She was also openly a huge lifelong Swifty. She was inspired by her idol, not doing anything nefarious. However, Taylor, Jack Antonoff, and St. Vincent were given writers credit and 50% (!!!) royalties to the song after that interview. It was one of Olivia’s two huge financially successful hits at the time and probably cost her 7 figures. The move was initiated by Taylor’s label and my personal sentiment is Taylor is too big an artist for her label to do something like this unilaterally without Taylor’s consent. It was pure greed.
Similar issues have always happened with artists but if the artist doesn't push forward the label won't do much. Many labels have gone after artists because ''sounds similar to x artist that we have'' and the artists had to pull them back and stop them.
It also happened with olivia and paramore
I think the issue with paramore was different. I remember how she sampled one of their songs but her label didn't pay for the royalties or ask permission. When you sample a track that belongs to someone else you need permission for that. It's not the artists job to go after them but the label is the one that should do it. Once it was wrapped it became clear that the label didn't do their job properly cause Paramore said that they wouldn't mind if permission was asked for that and the royalties were paid before having to find out on their own.
Thank you, this was helpful and reaffirms everything I’ve heard about Taylor being a mean girl.