1967 Yamaha Electone D-2B with no sound - The Organ Forum
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  • 1967 Yamaha Electone D-2B with no sound

    Hey, forum.

    You've been supremely helpful in the past with my various Hammond organs. I recently took the plunge with a 1967 Yamaha Electone D-2B because it was 2 blocks away, was rebuilt by a Yamaha dealer in the 80s, was meticulously maintained, and was FREE.

    There is a 1-second hum from the speaker when I power it on, which then dies away, leaving barely noticeable hum from the speaker. There is no sound from the speaker or the headphone jack when the manuals are played. The volume pedal doesn't change the volume of the background hum. The power indicator lights up, and the rotating speaker rotates as it should.

    One interesting thing I discovered is that if the trim pots on the power amp are turned, there is the loud sound of a dirty pot coming from the speaker. In other words, the amp seems to be able to amplify things, but the organ's signal just isn't getting to it?

    Now, about that supposed rebuild. I'm thinking the caps in the power supply etc were replaced because while they certainly look old, they're not 1967 old. (At least, they look nothing like the caps in my Hammonds from the 60s.) Doesn't mean they haven't failed, though. Nothing inside looks tampered with. All wiring seems intact and well seated in its appropriate connectors. This organ was well cared for by one owner since purchase.

    Now, I've got a service manual from the Bay on the way. But just in case there are obvious things I could be checking before it arrives, any ideas? If this were a Hammond I'd dive right in and start ripping things apart. But I am out of my element. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated!

    Click image for larger version

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    Zach Meyer aka OldStyle

    '52 C-2 "Claar," JR-20
    '54 B-2 "Bella" (smooth drawbars!), JR-20
    '56 C-3 "Cass," PR-40, '67 Leslie 122 with brake
    '58 S-6 "Sadie"
    '63 M-3 "Maggie"
    '65 A-102 "Amelie," '65 Leslie 251
    '67 L-112 "Lucy"

    Save all the tonewheel Hammonds!

  • #2
    Hi Zach.

    On the upper portion of the console are the selector tabs - the colorful ones each with three or four stages. Try moving them up and down several times. Sometimes lack of playing cause these tabs to kind of freeze up and cause lack of sound, especially on the pedals.

    Good luck!

    Nico
    "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request... B-)

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey thanks for the input Nico! Unfortunately, I think the problem is going to be more elusive than that. I have removed the power amp chassis to clean all the contacts of all the cables that plug into it. I have worked all the controls very well and cleaned those with Deoxit were possible. I've got no audio whatsoever. But, like I said before, this instrument is in near perfect addition. It has not been abused. A lot of the capacitors in the amplifier look to have been professionally replaced in the 80s. Since I don't hear the static from the speaker that would indicate to me a faulty capacitor, I suspect a faulty transistor in the amplifier somewhere, or perhaps a broken connection between the generator and the amp somewhere. Or perhaps no power is getting to the generator. Those are the only three explanations I can think of that would account for a total lack of audio output. What do you think?
      Zach Meyer aka OldStyle

      '52 C-2 "Claar," JR-20
      '54 B-2 "Bella" (smooth drawbars!), JR-20
      '56 C-3 "Cass," PR-40, '67 Leslie 122 with brake
      '58 S-6 "Sadie"
      '63 M-3 "Maggie"
      '65 A-102 "Amelie," '65 Leslie 251
      '67 L-112 "Lucy"

      Save all the tonewheel Hammonds!

      Comment


      • #4
        Just plugged my phone into the external input on the amplifier, and heard loud, clear, glorious music coming from the speaker. Thus, the problem is not the amplifier, but that the signal is not getting to it from the generator, or that power is not getting to the generator.
        Zach Meyer aka OldStyle

        '52 C-2 "Claar," JR-20
        '54 B-2 "Bella" (smooth drawbars!), JR-20
        '56 C-3 "Cass," PR-40, '67 Leslie 122 with brake
        '58 S-6 "Sadie"
        '63 M-3 "Maggie"
        '65 A-102 "Amelie," '65 Leslie 251
        '67 L-112 "Lucy"

        Save all the tonewheel Hammonds!

        Comment


        • #5
          Over on the Vintage Organs Facebook group, we were discussing the servicing of old organs including Yamahas of this era and one of our resident organ engineers pointed out that there were a lot of transistors in these organs and they are of an age where they fail. He found one organ that would have required hundreds of replacements. Obviously not an economically viable repair for that customer! I'm not saying that yours would require the same, but you are probably looking at a fair bit of work. Why not start with the power supply. If you've cleaned up the cable connections, then see what voltages are coming out. Are they correct? Have the electrolytic caps here been replaced at some point? If not, you should replace them before going much further. In any case, some would say that 30+ years on an e-cap is enough, so perhaps replace them anyway. A mix of old and new is sometimes a bad thing, putting strain on older parts.
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            The organ was free. I'm willing to put in some time and maybe a dozen dollars if I can get this thing to sing again. The owners told me it was working perfectly until all of a sudden it wasn't. That makes me think it hasn't failed due to some progressive systemic failure, but some connection or component somewhere that interrupted the signal. It is a unique kind of joy that comes from reviving a free vintage instrument :)
            Last edited by OldStyle; 06-27-2017, 12:34 PM. Reason: Typo
            Zach Meyer aka OldStyle

            '52 C-2 "Claar," JR-20
            '54 B-2 "Bella" (smooth drawbars!), JR-20
            '56 C-3 "Cass," PR-40, '67 Leslie 122 with brake
            '58 S-6 "Sadie"
            '63 M-3 "Maggie"
            '65 A-102 "Amelie," '65 Leslie 251
            '67 L-112 "Lucy"

            Save all the tonewheel Hammonds!

            Comment


            • #7
              It's always good to be able to revive an oldie, but I'm sure you'll have read enough threads on here to know that some owners' ideas of 'working perfectly' are somewhat(!) wide of the mark!
              It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

              New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

              Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
              Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
              Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
              Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

              Comment


              • #8
                I can't believe you fit an Electone in the back of a RAV4.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Those Yamaha's are actually nice when they work. I have two left - a B55-N and a D-3X. The latter looks very similar to the D-2B. The case looks the same. On my one the main speaker is dead. Sound comes bravely from the rotary speaker and the earphone socket also works but that massive ear-shaped main speaker remains silent. Unfortunately I have pushed fiddling with this one to the back shelf in preference to other work on the rest of my organ treasure trove.... I'll get to it later - promise!

                  Meanwhile I'll follow your efforts and who knows, perhaps the reasons for the dead main speaker on mine and the symptoms on yours can be healed by using information obtained here. :->

                  Good luck!
                  Nico
                  "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request... B-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, it was a fuse.

                    Fuses to the main amp and photocell lamps were solid, but the fuse to the generator was blown. I find that as confusing as the next guy, except that the AC voltage selector was set for 117, and I've seen AC power fluctuate as high as 126 around here. And knowing the fuses come after the power transformer, I thought maybe that could have contributed to the failure? Anyway, once I saw the fuse was blown, I replaced it, set the AC voltage to 120V, crossed my fingers and powered her up. Everything works. Some key contacts on the upper manual are dirty and intermittent, but everything else is perfect. So that's fun. I'm a little suprised at the volume level. I have a Hammond M3 that's orders of magnitude louder than this thing, but I don't know enough about Yamahas to know if that's normal or something to fix. It's not "quiet," just not loud. You could easily talk over it at full volume.

                    There is some audible distortion to the sound when loud stops are combined, and it has a nice "sag" at louder volumes. Again, not sure if that's a bug or a feature.

                    Perhaps someone with more Yamaha knowledge can let me know if these things are supposed to pump out 30 watts of clean undistorted sound, or if some compression/distoriton is normal at louder volumes.

                    I cleaned all the wire harness contacts I could find. Is it normal practice to remove the power transistors in the amp to clean those contacts? Would that improve the sound? That's what you'd do if they were tubes, but they're not, and I don't know solid state as well as I know tubes!

                    Thanks!
                    Zach Meyer aka OldStyle

                    '52 C-2 "Claar," JR-20
                    '54 B-2 "Bella" (smooth drawbars!), JR-20
                    '56 C-3 "Cass," PR-40, '67 Leslie 122 with brake
                    '58 S-6 "Sadie"
                    '63 M-3 "Maggie"
                    '65 A-102 "Amelie," '65 Leslie 251
                    '67 L-112 "Lucy"

                    Save all the tonewheel Hammonds!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It should be loud and clean, no compression and certainly no distortion. One of my students has a much smaller B5BR and that's very potent! Those symptoms are, as you probably realise, the kind of things that you get when the power supply isn't delivering what it should. It certainly shouldn't 'sag'.

                      So as I said earlier in the thread, you're looking at checking through the power supply to see what the voltage outputs are. Schematics would give you the figures, though some of our experts on here might be able to advise. You wouldn't remove the power transistors unless you intended to replace them.

                      Finally, you should be thinking about what caused the fuse to blow. Old age, perhaps, but there may have been something else. Again, you have enough old Hammonds to know what you're up to, so I'm probably 'preaching to the converted'! :)
                      It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                      New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                      Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                      Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                      Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                      Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, just received the service manual in the mail, and just purchased a multimeter so I can start verifying proper voltages etc. I will be sure to verify voltages and proper bias etc before running her too much.

                        It's a funny thing about the tone wheel Hammonds. They're all un-fused and un-grounded. The tubes are generally run pretty gently in them, so I guess Larry Hammond figured that as long as the specs of the amp were even in the ballpark of ideal, everything would be okay and wasn't worth the trouble to fuse. Haha.
                        Zach Meyer aka OldStyle

                        '52 C-2 "Claar," JR-20
                        '54 B-2 "Bella" (smooth drawbars!), JR-20
                        '56 C-3 "Cass," PR-40, '67 Leslie 122 with brake
                        '58 S-6 "Sadie"
                        '63 M-3 "Maggie"
                        '65 A-102 "Amelie," '65 Leslie 251
                        '67 L-112 "Lucy"

                        Save all the tonewheel Hammonds!

                        Comment

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