I've been really liking the URSA 12K. It's the best camera I've ever owned coming from the 2.5K and the 6K. I had a few questions based on these two videos that I recently shot:

Test Video I shot with GEN 5 FILM TO VIDEO LUT (with sharpening)


Test Video I shot with GEN 5 FILM TO EXTENDED VIDEO LUT (no sharpening)


Is the purpose of the EXTENDED VIDEO LUT to hold a lot of dynamic range, versus the VIDEO LUT that crushes the shadows more? I would often use the EXTENDED VIDEO LUT, but the VIDEO LUT has really grown on me -- I think I prefer the higher contrast.

I'm Just trying to understand the goals that these two different LUTS are supposed to achieve. I also often add a little sharpening in Resolve (-.47 I believe). Do you guys typically add sharpening? I find sharpening works pretty well, but it can bite you if you add too much and you start to see or exagerate moire. Do you agree?

Thanks!

Jason, there is a sticky thread above from Captain Hook about those two modes:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=125084

I am still working on a Gen 5 transformed version of my Gen 4 LBK Neutral LUT, but I have not enough sample footage from the UMP12k.

Would you mind to upload me some short BRAW samples for testing?

Extended video is kind of intended to be a better looking REC709 that works beyond the limitations imposed by conforming to being REC 709.

In other words, it's a better looking baked in video (generally speaking) than the VIDEO out which meets the REC 709 requirements.

For some people (broadcast) that NEED the image to be handed off as technically meeting REC 709, then that's what VIDEO is for.

If you want a better starting point than what REC 709 is then EXTENDED VIDEO is great.

I typically start with EXTENDED applied and grade *through* that (at the RAW tab not as a LUT) and a lot of the time it get's me to 85% of a great look.

Now if you LIKE the look of VIDEO, there's nothing stopping you from using that either. None of these looks are baked in with the 12K. It's just taste.

JB

Great info, John. As an editor, I would probably want to be handed EXTENDED VIDEO FOOTAGE to give me more room for grading (if I couldn't deal with raw or just wanted a more neutral starting point). But also as an editor, my final grade these days usually looks more like the VIDEO LUT, because I want to have a more dramatic/high contrast look. I know that's subjective of course.

It's great to capture all of this dynamic range (especially in crazy daylight scenarios), but a lot of my favorite movies and tv shows have very dark shadows. It's great that blackmagic gives us several options.

So when you guys look at the videos I shot (as noted: one has sharpening and one does not), how do you guys feel about sharpening and how much do you like to use? I assume those LUTS don't add sharpening?

Thanks!

Robert linked to my post above, but the TLDR of it is now with Gen 5 the gamma curve of Video and Ext Vid are not too different - the 'bigger' difference would be that Video uses 709 primaries so would be closer to 'accurate' colour, where some may prefer Ext Vid as a starting point or deliverable. I think with Gen 5 both are now pretty good options. I would encourage trying both regularly and picking what you like most each time.

I typically start with EXTENDED applied and grade *through* that (at the RAW tab not as a LUT) and a lot of the time it get's me to 85% of a great look.

May I ask why not as a LUT on a node? Is it because the settings available are enough to get the desired look?

Now if you LIKE the look of VIDEO, there's nothing stopping you from using that either. None of these looks are baked in with the 12K. It's just taste.

In the camera settings you get to choose between the three gamas. I believe the camera however always captures the file in FILM, is that correct? Is this the same as hitting the LUT button on the camera? Is it merely to preview the image on the cameras displays?

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:I believe the camera however always captures the file in FILM, is that correct

In terms of Blackmagic RAW no, its always captured as linear data from the sensor and stored in a non-linear encoding that has nothing to do with display etc as it is purely to store the data more efficiently. One of the first stages of colour processing in the decoding is to re-linearize then apply white balancing and matrix conversions to go to your desired output colour space, and then also the gamma curve application - so BMDFilm is just another output space for decoding.

CaptainHook wrote:

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:I believe the camera however always captures the file in FILM, is that correct

In terms of Blackmagic RAW no, its always captured as linear data from the sensor and stored in a non-linear encoding that has nothing to do with display etc as it is purely to store the data more efficiently. One of the first stages of colour processing in the decoding is to re-linearize then apply white balancing and matrix conversions to go to your desired output colour space, and then also the gamma curve application - so BMDFilm is just another output space for decoding.

So does that mean that my idea about different BRAW Presets could essentially be creating custom BMDFilm Profiles for Output Color Space?

By linear, does that mean LOG?

I might have meant, regardless of what DR you choose in camera, it will always capture the DR of FILM.

If so is that the case?

timbutt2 wrote:So does that mean that my idea about different BRAW Presets could essentially be creating custom BMDFilm Profiles for Output Color Space?

Extended Video is a custom profile option as you'll notice in Resolve when you adjust it it becomes 'custom' automatically (along with adjusting from BMDFilm), and it was also designed so as to potentially be available/editable on camera like Resolve but I can't comment on if that will ever happen or not. Extended Video is in essence a preset on top of BMDFilm.

Travis Hodgkinson wrote:By linear, does that mean LOG?

I might have meant, regardless of what DR you choose in camera, it will always capture the DR of FILM.

Linear is not log (the differences of which are prob better explained via a google search), but yes it is the full DR of the sensor which is essentially a linear capture device.

CaptainHook wrote:

timbutt2 wrote:So does that mean that my idea about different BRAW Presets could essentially be creating custom BMDFilm Profiles for Output Color Space?

Extended Video is a custom profile option as you'll notice in Resolve when you adjust it it becomes 'custom' automatically (along with adjusting from BMDFilm), and it was also designed so as to potentially be available/editable on camera like Resolve but I can't comment on if that will ever happen or not. Extended Video is in essence a preset on top of BMDFilm.

Awesome! That's what I was hoping to hear. It would be cool if we could have it editable on camera as it would give us some more control of the image we're capturing. But, at the same time, I understand the challenges of bringing it to the camera.

I'm going to, at least, express my interest to see it happen just like any other crazy idea I come up with. Not all will work for being put into the cameras. But, I'm always open to sharing the ideas because maybe it could inspire something similar.

Thank you Captain Hook for your answer!