This is a place for discussion of male advocacy from a left-wing perspective.
media
“Automotive expert John Cadogan” has posted a YouTube video speaking in his inimitable fashion about a current media kerfuffle in Australia. The background is that we had a high-profile disappearance, a murder, and a shopping centre stabbing spree (among other incidents) where the victims were women. Next thing there are people marching in the streets calling for the government to “declare a national emergency” of “gendered violence”.
Reality is that homicide and domestic violence rates have been strongly trending downwards over the last 30 years and Cadogan presents the official statistics that show this.
I'm posting because of some choice quotes:
“We men have got to feel guilty … like ‘you toxic bastard’. … I am dead-set sick of this. This repulsive news report and the hysteria in it is simply not what the official data shows. “
@3:10: “This is not a national emergency. The reduction in so-called intimate partner homicide over the past 30 years is actually a triumph for our safe society. Which is of course why nobody reports it. Everyone harps on about bias in the media, right? And having worked in it for 30 frickin years, I can tell you that the three top biases affecting the mainstream media are not the biases you think they are. It’s the predisposition to laziness, sensationalism, and conflict.”
@9:50: “We could always do better, certainly. And there are individual abhorrent tragedies in any large population, obviously. But we already have a very safe society for both women and men, and it’s getting safer. That is the clear, established long-term trend. This is a fact. I would argue that the median man in Australia has nothing whatsoever to to apologise for in respect of this bullshit cultural claim … We don’t collectively conspire to murder our partners. I’ve never been invited to one of those meetings, and neither have you.”
@12:40: “If a violent offender is out on bail and commits homicide, for example, [this is a reference to the Forbes murder] perhaps we should investigate how bail works. I’d argue for that. Rather than attempt to collectively fuck over all men just because of their chromosomes, by association.”
@14:00: “Nobody appears to give two shits about the dudes who are getting popped by their partners. And 25% is a significant fraction. … Are male victims somehow worth less than female victims on this one? I think perhaps they are in real terms as valued by our society… This does not seem all that equitable or inclusive or fair.”
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I happened to be in Aussie right after the mall attack and I was sickened by the media coverage of it. They made it seem like being an Australian woman was like being in Fallujah circa 2004.
"Man or bear" suddenly makes more sense when you realise some people are actually swayed by misandric propaganda like that.
Feminism in general is mostly "official disinformation".
Remember when the EU claimed they would "tackle misinformation" and in the same breath claimed that their increased social media policing would prevent "misogyny and hate speech specifically aimed towards women", something which rarely exists in the first place and that usually not gendered?
They can't even avoid spreading disinformation at the very moment of claiming to combat it. And we are supposed to believe they can determine for us what is disinformation and what isn't. If governments and people were actually concerned about disinformation then most feminist influence would be regarded as disinformation, whole academic domains such as gender studies would be closed up and their academics fired, the media would stop framing feminism positively and feminists would be purged from governmental bodies. That's not what's happening is it?
In reality these outrage concerns about disinformation are just about clashing ideologies. Disinformation is a problem until its done by the right ideology, then its no big deal as this guy accurately identified.
Or that over half (55%) of misogyny online is actually coming from women
Misogyny is when a guy doesn't venerate women.
There is a lot of misogyny online. In some cultures, they don't even recognize it as a thing. Feminism and gender studies are totally valid parts of social science. Without them, we would have missed a lot of things about how women were treated. As an egalitarian, I am obviously a feminist because they claim to be egalitarian as well. There is a lot of good things in feminism, even though it fails its goals to advocate for all.
I reported your comment as, frankly, just downright misinformation. So little of what you said is true here and you've been upvoted. I am very worried conservative, shitty MRAs are starting to break through and catch upvotes.
The mods need to address this comment and those like it because I won't put my voice here with this straight up, unsourced baloney.
That's an understatement! Feminism empowers and gives a platform to misandrists like these, just like how you cannot stand the likes of tate&crowder, i also can't stand the likes of Mary Koss and Sally Gearhart.
I am obviously a feminist because they claim to be egalitarian as well
Anyone can claim that they're egalitarian, but that doesn't make it true. Tate also claims to be a respectable businessman/life coach. Is that the truth of what he is? I've been noticing an uptick of male feminists on this sub and i have to ask all of you guys, why are you all so lenient when it comes to bigotry within Feminism? Feminists on TikTok are saying that they'd rather deal with wild bears than the average man, is this not Androphobia?
I'm more worried about Feminist bigotry going unchecked. Speaking for conservatives, Feminism perpetuates a lot of conservative stereotypes(i.e Men being violent/scary savages and Women requiring chivalry&male guardians). From the "Toxic masculinity" discussions, i can confidently say that Feminism is conservative when it comes to men's role in Society. Feminism is content with caging men into a new version of masculinity, this isn't Gender liberation. Men never asked for a "new" masculinity, we just want to be free.
P.S Feminism has a misandry problem and unless we acknowledge the ugly side of Feminism that needs to be fixed, anti-feminism will always have a valid reason to exist.
This isn't menslib. Mods are not going to delete comments just for criticising feminism.
Not anymore than there is misandry, and a lot of what gets called misogyny is literally just people being assholes to eachother on the internet and using anything they can find to get under someones's skin. In reality, women are rarely specifically targeted because of their gender but rather they are treated just like men are treated on the internet; bad because the internet brings out the worst in people. This is literaly just the EU using a repackaged version of "we should protect the women type of traditionalism" to make a gendered thing out of something that isn't gendered. Its yet another act of pretending that women are uniquely being targeted by bad actors while men who suffer from the same bad actors are ignored. This same EU has absolutely no problem with spreading misandry and misinformation themselves (just think about the VAWA, the istanbul convention and the complete joke they make out of male victims of domestic abuse)and claiming things that go directly against what actual unbiased studies find. And I'm supposed to think their virtue signalling about misogyny and hate speech and women is actually well intentioned and based on a well-informed perspective? I'm sorry but no, you're just wrong or naive, or both.
I'm sorry but they are not. Feminism is an ideology and ideologies have no place in Science. Science is about objective knowledge production, truth discovery and falsification. Feminists use unfalsiable theories, theories that contradict with empirical evidence, completely made up theories with zero connection to evidence, constantly stereotype men and women and are gender essentialist in practice, use circular reasoning, blame and name everything after men, hold dogmatic attitudes, and consider male privilege as an unescapable sin of being born male. This is bigoted and anti-intellectual. And gender studies in its current form is more like "feminist perspectives on gender" rather than actual gender studies and its total garbage for the same reasons I mentioned. Have you ever read the shit they write? They are constantly yapping about "heteronormative masculinity", something they can't even properly define and something they pretty much never connect to any kind of empirically grounded definition. Gender studies in its current form is nothing more than an ideological circlejerk congratulating eachother for using totally made-up concepts that 1)don't really mean or understand anything and 2) make sure to always reach the conclusion that women have it worse and that men are bad. Its a blight on social science similar to how eugenics, racism, and sexism against women was a blight on social science in the past. Its pseudoscientific and bigoted, its as simple as that.
Ironically, this actually decreases the trust people have in scientific authorities and thus actually encourages people to believe in disinformation because they feel like they can no longer trust anyone to be saying the truth.
As an egalitarian, I am obviously a feminist because they claim to be egalitarian as well.
Claiming to be something is not the same as actually being something, this is especially common for feminists.
There is a lot of good things in feminism, even though it fails its goals to advocate for all.
No there aren't. You'd never say this of any other ideology that has done the same things that they did, somehow its only feminism that has always have to be regarded as having a lot of good things even though it isn't even remotely true.
I reported your comment as, frankly, just downright misinformation. So little of what you said is true here and you've been upvoted.
You're actually proving my point, you disagree with me ideologically so I must be spreading misinformation. Expressing a negative opinion of an ideological movement is not "misinformation" especially since most of what I said is just true?
am very worried conservative, shitty MRAs are starting to break through and catch upvotes.
I'm neither conservative, nor shitty.
No more than misandry is a different point. You said none.
Feminism is not alone in not achieving its goals. Democracy hasn't achieved its goals. Capitalism won't achieve its goals. My Minnesota Vikings have not completed their goals.
Yet we see that I still prefer democracy and the Vikings! And I recognize the value of Capitalism and how we can apply it to things like professional sports and luxury items to amplify our society.
Democracy and Capitalism have also caused a lot of harm along the way.
They also teach communism courses, all sorts of different economic systems. There are even courses just on specific authors. I can in no world find a way that feminism as a topic and gender studies as a focus could possibly fall outside the realm of higher education. You can choose to not put value on it, but it is a totally valid line of study because it used real science to get there. They do some real studies and they learn how to do the stats. They read book after book on theory and some on history.
Downvote away, and I'm sorry you took that as you being the piece of shit. You may be for all I know, but I meant the upvotes you received on your very incorrect comment seems to show we are not isolated enough from bad folks to get good honest discussion from such a bad comment as yours.
I didn't say none, I said its bs that women are being specifically targeted most of the time. They just assume that this is the case when women are treated the same as men are treated.
They aren't scientific, using stats in itself doesn't make anything scientific. A lof of these books and theories are similarly biased as them and it has nothing to do with science.
Would you argue that white supremacy couldn't fall outside the realm of higher education, that traditional ideology couldn't fall outside of the realm of higher education? Probably not yet for feminism its appearantly acceptable.
My comment is not incorrect. Go link me the empirical evidence that we live in a patriarchy that privileges men for being male. You won't find it, the best you will find is either studies with shitty methodologies and ideologically leading interview questions, or studies that completely cherrypicked the data to reach the conclusions they already wanted to find. Its is really bad and I understand you don't want to believe it but its the truth. Anyone who tries to holds a scientific perspective towards reality and who wants to avoid disinformation comes to the conclusion that they have to reject feminist theories about the world because they simply aren't true.
You should be letting people make up their own minds instead of trying to censor, isn't that the kind of thing we're trying to do here. I don't know, maybe you think people are too stupid here to make up their own minds. 🙄
What’s wrong with MRA’s? Are you excluding certain types of men due to your own ideological views? (Conservative men)
I was talking very specifically about the bad ones. If I didn't clarify that enough that's on me, but my point should stand. We know there are awful MRAs that want subjugation and Andrew Tate/Steven Crowder type shit.
There are also awful feminists like Clementine Ford who I would argue is just as harmful / destructive as Andrew Tate is.. she actively uses her platform to spread misandry and hatred towards men while hiding behind her shield of "Feminism" or calling men who disagree with her "Fragile"
For the record I'm an MRA and I absolutely HATE Andrew Tate..
But I can also see WHY he has become a centralized figure for disenfranchised men..
Feminism and Feminists have spent decades blaming men, lumping ALL men in with the abusers, rapists and misogynists..
Now many of these men who have been bombarded by the Mainstream Media about how they are abusive potential rapist predators because of their gender feel disenfranchised..
Along comes Andrew Tate, a man who promotes a more positive (if warped / misogynistic) view point which appeals to these men who have been ground into the dirt by the high heels of feminism...
If it isn't obvious yet.. I am directly blaming feminism and feminists for the rise and popularity of Andrew Tate,
But of course.. like anything.. accountability is something feminists are incapable of handling and so there's no chance in hell of them understanding that they are the cause of this problem..
Instead they will continue to blame men because that's easier for them to handle..
I don’t like Andrew Tate. Crowder is meh. Interesting that you’re taking his wife’s side as this side shouldn’t take short clips or political teams when advocating for male rights.
But many left wing men ignore WHY men like these figures. Especially a lot of younger guys. Being male (like female) is complex and full of nuances. Male forms of expression are often controlled and limited to either being extremist or super soft capitulating cucks.
We need to understand what aspects men find appealing about these figures and address the healthy aspects while calling out the BS.
Tate and Crowder like it or not do have a select few good qualities which get overlooked to just win reddit points or say ‘NO EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM IS BAD, end of conversation!’ ‘They disagree with my politics therefore I don’t like them’
Oh no, the conscription supporter won't put his voice here! What a loss!
The irony in this statement considering misandry is basically nowhere recognized as a thing. And no, it's not a different point.
😂😂😂
Well colour me confused, because I have been syaing that this is the exact issue with mainstream media for a long-time. A lot of it is based around the clicks.
the one that caught me off guard was laziness. that might be my weakness. damn i guess im just a media brained shill.
Holy Fuck John Cadogen said something that makes sense
remember folks, the fascists want you terrified of 'othered' men. that way you come a running to them for protection.
The news is more about entertainment rather than information or education.
I dont understand from this post, is he pro-men or anti-men?
Pro. He's pointing out that blaming all men for a small - and shrinking - number of violent men is bullshit. And also pointing out how male victims are simply ignored.
Thanks.
I am a man experiencing extreme family violence and it is in the Federal Family Court Circuit. The last people I will blame for how terrible this is is not women, politicians or the media but 80% of men (current stat) that commit family violence. John Cadogan has now opened up the vault of Men’s Rights Activists (domestic terrorists imo) in his comments section. Until a few days ago I was a long time subscriber regrettably despite over the years tiny little misogynistic comments. John and his supporters on this have zero care or idea about gender dynamics and power. No surprised there. DV isn’t just about homicides but coercive control. Get angry at the men who have made it so difficult for better men. Don’t get angry at women, the media or politicians. It’s not a good look for your cause. 30 men haven’t been murdered by their intimate partners in Australia in the last few months.
I'm a little puzzled here.
You are in a situation of domestic violence and you blame other people in situations of domestic violence unconnected to your own. How does that work? Do you imagine they have secretly coordinated their abuse on a national scale?
No, I blame the difficulties of the family court gender lens on coercive controlling men, some of which kill kids and women. They are the ones to blame, instead of having a whinge about ‘Men being under attack’ etc
What do you mean by "the difficulties of the family court gender lens on coercive controlling men"?
It’s assumed the man is the perpetrator of family violence due to current stats in Australia. 80% of domestic and family violence is committed by men. So until it goes to trial which can take over a year or two, as a bloke you’re on the back foot until then for obvious reasons. It’s the only time they hear evidence. At the end… 🤦🏻
Oh shit I just remembered what sub I’m on!!!