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The following contains spoilers from The Flash‘s Season 8 finale.
The Flash with its Season 8 finale saw Eobard Thawne become more powerful than ever, as the Negative Reverse-Flash. In turn, the positive Forces resurfaced to similarly supercharge Barry, as their own chosen avatar. Iris meanwhile was revealed to have cheated death, her consciousness finding refuge in the time stone that Damien Darhk gifted Joe back during “Armageddon.”
Damien coached Iris to facilitate her own escape by rediscovering her lost connection with Barry, after which she re-materialized at Joe’s house. Iris then found Barry mid-battle with Thawne and urged him to dial things down, seeing as their fracas was building to, you know, Armageddon. So, despite crackling with the combined power of the other Forces, Barry literally opted to sit out the rest of the rumble, positing himself criss-cross-apple sauce on the pavement and meditating, much to Thawne’s frustration. Thawne then summoned “more power” to slaughter his foe where he sat, only to wind up obliterated by his own excess.
In the coda that followed, Iris reunited Tinya with her rescued mom… Cecile discovered that a form of telekinesis has been added to her power set… Caitlin’s “Frost” chamber malfunctioned, leading Mark to an unexpected discovery… and Barry and Iris enjoyed a quiet, romantic moment at home, where she explained how she rediscovered their spark, and he thanked her for de-escalating his fight with Thawne. Then, in a final stinger, as Barry and Iris acknowledged that the Negative Forces will one day find a new avatar, the camera panned a lab in the year 2049, where a (cobalt?) blue crystal was on display….
TVLine spoke with Flash showrunner Eric Wallace about planting the seeds for the time sickness arc, whether we’ve now really seen the last of Tom Cavanagh, why “WestAllen” has been put through the wringer, and what that final image meant.
TVLINE | I gave you a slow golf clap when Joe revealed that the time stone was in his cabinet, and we got the flashback to Damien handing him it. You really played the long game. What would you say was the very first seed for this time sickness storyline?
It really starts in Season 7 — in Episode 715, I believe? — where Iris seems to have the flu off-camera. Candice [Patton] was not available for Episode 715, so we were like, “I wonder why Iris is not available? Hey! What if this is a diabolical master plan of some kind? And what if it’s really the bad guys, and not the flu? What if they’ve given her a time sickness and she won’t figure it out for another six months? Oh my goodness, we’re going to have the most epic, involved storyline ever, and we are going to pay it off!” That’s where it started. And then there’s a deleted scene that unfortunately didn’t make the cut at the end of Season 7 — right before the vow renewal, it’s a scene with Iris and Nora—
TVLINE | TVLine actually posted that deleted scene, with the necklace.
Yes, the necklace scene! I can’t remember if we had the finished effects there, but at the top of the scene you see Iris’ eyes glow green for the first time. Even though she got it off-camera in Episode 715, that’s where [the time sickness] would have been confirmed to the audience. But instead, we talked about it in [Episodes] 801, 802,803….
TVLINE | Did you by chance film these new scenes with Neal McDonough the same time as “Armageddon,” knowing this callback was coming?
No, but we knew we wanted to bring him back. Going into “Armageddon,” we knew, “Oh, this is how we’re going to cure Iris’ time sickness. It’s going to be in some capacity using the time stone, so I hope Neal is available to come back!” At that point I had seen the dailies of him working with the rest of Team Flash and it was just magic. I thought it’d make a perfect bookend, not only to the end of the season, as far as wrapping up the time sickness storyline, but wrapping up the “Armageddon” storyline.
What hopefully everyone gets is really this has all been about “Armageddon” — the beginning of the season and the end of the season. In the first five episodes, we couldn’t show Armageddon because the hero prevents it. Then as soon as we got around to [Episodes] 804, 805, we realized that if Flash solves the mystery and defeats the bad guy, we won’t get to see the coolest thing ever. “Well, I guess we know what our season finale is now!” It was wonderful symmetry.
TVLINE | That was quite a last hurrah for Reverse-Flash in the finale, but Tom [Cavanagh] has speculated over the years that when The Flash really comes to an end, there’d need to be a final face-off. Do you have any idea what that would look like?
No, not yet — because when we were writing the finale for Season 8, we thought that was the series finale. So we were like, “We’ve got to have the greatest, most epic battle ever between Grant [Gustin] and Tom! That’s how it has to end.” And after the script was done and we were getting ready to start prep, that’s when we got the news that we would be getting a ninth season. So we were like, “Oh crap, we just did the ultimate battle. How are we supposed to ever top that? Then it was like, “Let’s just kill him for now and worry about that later.” [Laughs] Because Reverse-Flash and the Negative Reverse-Flash, just like Frost, are dead. I mean, they are dead. Now… having said that… it is a comic book show, and I’m pretty sure that in Season 9, there’s some reason that you might see Tom Cavanagh again. I won’t go into it, but that’s a pretty safe bet.
TVLINE | Talk about coordinating with Legends of Tomorrow on the sharing of Matt Letscher’s Thawne.
The Legends people had called me and said, “We have this idea to use Reverse-Flash, but we don’t want to mess with what you have planned, because it’s pretty radical.” [Legends‘ Jan. 22 episode established that the time wraiths had assigned Letcher’s Thawne to safeguard a fixed point in the year 1914.] And then I heard their pitch and went, “That fits in perfectly with the end of the Armageddon storyline.”
TVLINE | Your leading lady, Candice Patton, has been a bit cordoned off from the rest of the cast and the canvas in recent years, starting with Season 6’s Mirrorverse arc and followed by her storyline in Coast City this season and then being MIA for these past four weeks. Is there a why behind that? And coming out of this finale, can you promise that Season 9 will be different on that front?
OK, OK, I hear the note underneath the note. Yes, I can unequivocally say that in Season 9 you will see much, much more of Barry and Iris together. Not just together in the same room, but together in all ways. It’s something that is a part of the new approach for the new season. Every season is different, and Season 9 is going to be very, very fun and very exciting.
The reason we can do that is because of what [WestAllen] have been through over the last season-and-a-half specifically, being apart and growing individually. As we see in this finale, Iris was the last person to have not “leveled up” yet, and we get to see it actually happen in the episode. Now that she has completed her journey of leveling up, she and Barry can both face what is coming in Season 9 together, as a couple. So you will see much more of them together, unlike what you saw in Season 8 at times.
TVLINE | So, Iris’ perceived isolation was a combination of storytelling needs with maybe a bit of COVID protocols thrown in…?
Oh, without question. COVID has been running rampant in the world as we know and creating havoc with how everybody makes their TV shows, not just ours. And if you throw that in with just the stories themselves, it created a certain storytelling style. And now that we’ve completed that journey, we can move onto something new.
TVLINE | How will the outcome of Caitlin’s experiment reconcile with the promise made to Danielle Panabaker that Frost is truly and sincerely dead?
Danielle told the truth, and I’m keeping my promise to her. Frost is dead. But Danielle Panabaker is still a regular on The Flash, and we heard her voice speaking to Mark…. That begs the question, who’s in there? Is it Caitlin, or is it something else? That is something we will see immediately at the top of Season 9 — and I think everyone will be as surprised as Mark is.
TVLINE | Turning to the finale’s very final image, a glowing blue crystal inside a lab in the year 2049. Should comic book fans know what that was?
The hardcore comic book fans know what’s coming; those who don’t, I’m not spoiling it here, so it’s going to be a big surprise for them. But yes, we’re pulling directly from the comic books here, and boy is it going to be fun.
TVLINE | When we spoke last month, you didn’t yet know the answer to this: Is Season 9 going to be the final season?
I still do not know. I do not know. I hope it’s not. I’ve got plenty of plans. The first three seasons [I was showrunner], 6, 7 and 8, really is one big omnibus. And that whole story is now done. I’m now formulating a new, shorter, two-season plan, for Seasons 9 and 10, so I sure hope I get to tell that story, because I know where I’m driving to.
What did you think of The Flash‘s almost-series finale, and the promise of more together time for WestAllen? Weigh in below!
You’d think I learn by now to stop giving these finales a chance.
Again, as with Superman & Lois, the heroes defeat the Bad Guys way too easily & everything is back to normal without any real consequences for Barry & Team Flash.
Regarding S&L, someone should’ve died in the finale (a secondary character, at least). I know that sounds awful, but to have everything wrapped in a nice, tidy package is just lazy writing, imo. And this goes for several other shows as well. I’ve basically turned off network tv because of this.
Didn’t they confirm Iris’s time sickness in 716 when Deon pulled her into the still force to protect her? This whole storyline felt like a big jumbled mess. I hope his new plan is clearer and better executed.
I hope that was the last of Cavanaugh-Thawne, too. He feels played out and at this point he’s beating himself more than Barry is even doing anything.
Also, no exit storyline for Joe? Is he just going to be doing things offscreen next year?
Jesse L. Martin will reportedly be back every once in a while; he just won’t be a series regular anymore. So he doesn’t really need an “exit.”
Ah, okay. That helps. I was under the impression he was out for good.
I confess to being mildly annoyed that the big surprise cameo was Damien Darrk, even though I enjoyed his appearance on its own merits. I can’t be the only one who was expecting someone bigger.
When they told us to expect to be surprised I was really thinking it would be, you know, somebody who hadn’t come back five or six times since his original death, including already this season. Was really hoping for Wally. Ah, well!
I was really enjoying this season, but this brought up everything I dislike about season 6 and 7. When major plot points are wrapped up and bad guys are defeated by doing nothing or thinking really hard that is just awful writing. It makes me not want to watch next season.
I completely agree. The battles and fights are so anticlimactic and have been for a few seasons. The show just needs to end. I don’t care how many plans EW has. The show has run its course.
You could just you know not watch it if you don’t enjoy it.
Doesn’t mean those who do enjoy it, need to see the show canceled. And those who work on it need to lose their jobs. Just cause Matty Si over here is tired of it.
For those that do not know, Cobalt Blue is the name of a supervillain who also happens to be the long lost twin brother of Barry Allen.
Well that’s fascinating. Thanks for sharing that with us non-comic-book geeks. Lol. For the rest of the ‘debbie downer’ commenters, please, let season 8 be your last and save yourself some future disappointment. Why continue to watch shows that are no longer fun for you? I still enjoy the show and look forward to continuing the ride in season 9.
They should have Salvatore face off with the reverse flash if he comes back as ebar thorn
Kinda an underwhelmed reaction Barry had to seeing Iris wasn’t actually dead.
Right it wasn’t even good this show has really fallen off and ruined good relationships
He’s been the show runner for season 6, 7, and 8. The seasons where the show has really lost its spark for me? That explains so much.
I lost respect for Tom Cavanaugh. I know actors are employees and are supposed to do what they are told but I thought he’d have more self respect for the work he’s done these past 8 years than to put on that black suit. I mean if he he put his foot down and said no would they really fight him?
He seriously can’t even move from the waist up!!
Please end it after S9. Even though I stopped watching after S4.
If you stopped then you lost the right to have an opinion. You don’t know if the show is good or not. How about be happy those that love it still get to keep watching it. I hope your favorite show gets canceled then.
Do you hear how entitled and selfish you sound? Despite *you* no longer watching the show for years, *you* demand they end the show and put people out of work. For *you*. Ok.
How did you come to the conclusion people are going to be out of work when the show ends? Did you come back from the future?
As you said to the National Park Service upon leaving the Grand Canyon, “Okay, I’ve seen it, and I’m not coming back. You can fill it in now.”
I’ll never understand people who ask for shows to be canceled. Just don’t watch it, like you already say you don’t do. Simple. How does it matter if it continues if you’re not watching it?
I thought they brought together the whole season very well. I love the Barry/Iris relationship and missed seeing them together this season, so I’m glad they’ll go through things together next season. There are very few shows that demonstrate what such a committed relationship looks like.
Who was the big surprisingly crazy cameo? Damian Darhk?
Apparently, which means it was overhyped to the extreme. Damian constantly shows up
: …She dematerialized at Joe’s house. Iris then found Barry mid-battle with Thawne and urged him to dial things down, seeing as their fracas was building to, you know, Armageddon. So, despite crackling with the combined power of the other Forces, Barry literally opted to sit out the rest of the rumble, positing himself criss-cross-apple sauce on the pavement …”
.
What did you do to piss off auto-correct this way, Matt? Or maybe it was just a late night. I don’t watch Flash, so I might have misunderstood, but it sounds as if Iris rematerialized in Joe’s house, not dematerialized,
.
Anyway, nice touch, Barry winning because he accepted limitations and Thawne didn’t, rather than making this about leveling up.
Did you have to quote that whole paragraph, when the issue you had with it was the second word of the first line?
I am glad that wasn’t the series finale because it would’ve ended on a huge down note after what was once a great series. The ultimate battle with Thawne can’t be the flash meditating.
It is stunning to me how bad this show has gotten. It used to consistently be the best Arrowverse show and now it’s not even the best show in it’s timeslot
This series needs to end immediately! This show is getting worse each passing season! I can’t take it anymore!!! A short final 9th season, with 8 episodes is ENOUGH! MAKE IT STOP! lol
You being forced to watch it?
Thank goodness the omnibus is done, because those seasons sucked. Mearly killed my interest inthe series. Plus the budgetary concessions are really showing
Not the show I once loved. It has had a long run. If it ends it ends. Hopefully not ending with a cliffhanger.
Fingers crossed this is the last season we will hear the term “level up” as apparently now everyone has (including Irish) . I actually cringed when the Stargirl ad came on in the ad break and she uses that phrase because of The Flash
Iris. Silly phone autocorrect
Two questions that really caught my eye in the closing credits were:
1) I don’t recall any mention of Superman in the season 8 finale of Flash at all so why was there a special mention in the credits that Siegel and Shuster created Superman? Did I miss something?
2) Near the end of the same credits roll, there is a massive “Thank You” dedication screen to about 50-60 names notable within the comic writing world. Why was this included? Was it because they felt that the season 8 might have served as a series finale and wished to thank all the creators/writers of characters that have appeared on the show in some capacity over the past 8 seasons?
I’m shocked the series lasted this long. I’m also shocked at the war in Ukraine, how people and governments believe covid is over, and that the world is regressing to medieval times.
This whole season and finale were a hot jumbled mess. I wish it never got picked up for a Season 9. Either way, I won’t be watching. They should just read the writing on the wall and end things already. The fact that Candace and Grant took so long to close deals on Season 9 tells me they clearly want to hang it up themselves as well. Everyone is basically phoning it in at this point.
Can we get a new showrunner ? This one is just awful, he is a liar and a bad story teller. I don’t believe a word he’s saying. He had multiple chances to make the show better but he didn’t so NEXT!!!!!
And how in god’s name iris “leveled up” this season? I am so sick of this bull💩 expression by the way. He sidelined her for no good reason, he gave her journalist arc to allegra, her husband and father didn’t really seemed to care a out her disappearing, playing d&d while their love one is missing is direspectful and he has the Audacity to call that leveling up? Because she got out of the stone by herself ? . Whatever beef going on bts between the SR and CP should not be reflected on the show and the character’s story. It IS unprofessional.