1

I’ve been listening to a lot of the 6v6 VS 5v5 debates and something that’s been irking me is that pretty much all of the complaints from 6v6 have either been present in 5v5 in some form or has even been more egregious.

I actually want to debate this with yall to see where you’re coming from because I hear these arguments against 6v6 and to me seemingly none of them have been fixed with 5v5. Maybe yall can change my mind on this, I’d like to talk with yall and maybe we can all see where each other are coming from.

39 Likes
2

Just because 5v5 has much more fixable matchmaking, doesn’t mean they can’t calibrate it improperly so the matchmaking is bad.

Should see how on Tuesday, matchmaking should magically fix itself.

3

One of the complaints I’ve seen from 6v6 is that you can get two off tanks on your team. I’m not sure how that is a problem in 5v5 or more egregious, considering that they have basically buffed all tanks into main tanks.

1 Like
4

Only answer you’re gonna get here from 5v5ers is “BuT mUh QueUE tImeS”.
No matter how much you point out that Ana is the queen of meta because of one less tank, or how Tracer’s and Sojourn’s complete dominance would’ve been prevented by a second tank, or how the MaugaMauga metas were completely avoidable because he could’ve been balanced properly in 6v6.
They’ll complain about double shield being meta for so painstakingly long, yet here we are in OW2, where Sojourn was meta for 6 seasons in a row, and Ana for 8 in a row, both of whom are very likely going back to being meta once Tracer gets slapped down by the armour changes and the dive meta disappears with her.

Simple. There are still off-tanks. Instead of getting two off-tanks who don’t synergise, you can get one off-tank getting countered by Ana while Sojourn instakills the entire unprotected team.

20 Likes
5

idk you can still feel that. For example, someone going hog into a poke comp on very long map can make it really difficult. I guess thats more the player just not picking the most optimal tank, but with 2 tanks at least theres a higher chance someone goes dive/shield in such a situtation.

There’s also the opposite issue with no off tank supports cant get peeled for as well/consistently like you could when you had a main tank to protect from the front, and an off tank to turn around and help with flankers/ divers.

I think they just needed to rework the tanks away from too strong/boring synergies (like double shield), such as the orisa rework removing her shield. That could have made 6v6 work. I dont hate 5v5 all that much, but I think 6v6 was better, personally

3 Likes
6

Who are the off tanks? You can’t have an off tank when there are not two tanks, lol.

The difference is that in 6v6 tanks were balanced/designed with there being an off tank and a main tank. Now, being that there is only one tank, they are all balanced/designed as main tanks.

7

Easy. Ball, Doom, Mauga, Queen and Hog. None mitigate damage for their team, they just kill.
If a Sojourn is running rampant, guess who’s dying? Oh I know, the entire off-tank’s team. Not any different than two off-tanks into Widow on OW1.

3 Likes
8

Oh yeah! Queue times were a big problem with 6v6, not so much with 5v5.

Oh yeah! Double shield was a problem with 6v6, not a problem in 5v5.

The more I think about it, what is something that IS just as problematic in 5v5? lol.

9

5v5 is much, much better for the design space. When tanks can only be played one at a time per side, it gives Team 4 a lot more room to get creative or bold with the kits. It also means they don’t need to weigh a new tank’s power based on their potential synergies with other tanks.

Now, whether the OW team has capitalized on this strength is debatable. Ram I thought was a good, bold design. Queen. Mauga? Less so. YMMV.

3 Likes
10

Queue times went down due the game being abandoned and awful balancing of CC.
CC has been reduced and the game is no longer abandoned, two problems solved straight off the bat.

For one thing, quad shield go brr in OQ 5v5. For another, double shield is dead because of the Orisa rework. Try again.

5 Likes
11

I’m pretty sure we discussed at lengths the various issues 6v6 had. And the advantages 5v5 had over such.

If you like I can start this conversation again by pointing out how the original games was built on a foundation of counter picking, much like it’s tf2 inspiration.

And how that when meta comps like dive started to roll in, that whole balance philosophy got thrown out the window as we know have tanks that can not only well together but cover each others weaknesses almost fully.

12

Ball and Doom are both main tanks, even in OW1 terms. Ball has ALWAYS been a main tank. He’s played very differently than the others, but that doesn’t change his role. You wpuld substitute either of them for Winston in dive comps.

Also, Zarya is the prototypical off tank and yet you didn’t include her. Even with her OW2 changes, she still plays very much as an off tank.

13

And you managed to be wrong on just about everything. The majority of the issues that affected queue times in 6v6 are gone. Deleted. Ceased to have exist.

And now tanks have all their weaknesses fully exposed and as a result, several tanks are always going to be broken or dumpster tier, DPS only has an instakill meta and the support meta is just play Ana.

4 Likes
14

Neither protect their team outside of just killing the enemy. And thank you for reminding me about Zarya, who’s entire kit is based around supporting the other tank.

15

The conversation wasn’t on que times specifically, I was pointing out that their was more to this discussion then just que time issues.

As intended.

D.va isn’t suppose to have an answer to beams and poke damage from multiple directions other then her mobility allowing her to get out of range and or LOS. Or using her damage out put and bulk to out compete such.

Were as diving with winston, the bubble gives her near complete immunity to those issues. And gives winston the tools to peel off the likes reaper/torb/hog that would otherwise invade the bubble and headshot him, with DM.

16

Which does not define a main tank, so I’m not sure why you are trying to make it so.

Both are attention disruptors. Ball main tanked in OW1 by being so annoying you couldn’t ignore him an so slippery you couldn’t kill him.

See also, Ball was the only tank consistently played in solo tank comps pre-RQ at the highest levels. Hell, at the pro level solo tank Ball comps proved the Achilles heel of GOATS, there just weren’t enough elite Ball players for it to turn the tide.

2 Likes
17

D.va isn’t even hard-countered by beams, especially in the current meta lol. Mei is mediocre, Symmetra doesn’t exist, Moira isn’t a threat and Zarya is a circumstantial counter that becomes irrelevant if the team either focus fires Zarya into oblivion or has good trigger discipline.

Except the game was entirely balanced around 6v6 and still is lol

Even if that justifies Ball being a main tank, sure as Hell doesn’t justify Doom being one. Ball can survive even if multiple CCs are thrown at him. Doom can get dropped by Hog alone.

5 Likes
18

Also, the main difference is that in OW1, if you had 2 off tanks, it was a loss. In OW2, having an “off tank” is fine. They have buffed tanks so that they are all strong enough now. In OW2, they balanced around an off tank and a main tank, so if you had 2 off tanks, there was nothing you could do. Alternatively, two main tanks wasn’t great either. Now, it’s fine.

19

Having two off-tanks in OW1 was still winnable and one off-tank in OW2 is still losable lol. Only difference is one tank is far easier to counter than two. Ana and Zen were balanced out in OW1 by being forced to choose targets. In OW2, if the enemy team is running Hog, guaranteed win.

2 Likes
20

Um, yes. Games can be won and lost…

The difference is the degree of difficulty two off tanks brought to winning. It was a problem in 6v6. 5v5 has alleviated that problem.