Carl Wiser (Songfacts): Congratulations on your honorary doctorate.

Jody Watley: Thank you so much. It was a fantastic and inspirational ceremony. 

Songfacts: Well deserved. When did you start writing songs?

Watley: The first song I started writing, I was probably 9 years old, and it was called "Mr. Richmond," and it was about people talking about other people behind their backs. I started writing poetry as a little girl, and the poetry was really the beginning of the songwriting and the storytelling, and then I would always be humming melodies in my mind. That's one of the blessings and gifts that I have that started back at a young age.

Songfacts: Is there any poetry that has influenced your songs?

Watley: Nikki Giovanni was the first poet that I recall being very touched by, and also she had an album that was set to gospel music called Like A Ripple On A Pond, and that is a very impactful record for me still. When I went on to write the spoken word "When A Man Loves A Woman" on my fourth album, Intimacy, it was rooted in Like A Ripple On A Pond because thematically, topically, it was so much deeper than writing pop-dance-R&B songs.

I remember going to the library and getting lost in words. I've always been a voracious reader, and I think that inspires my respect for words and how they impact people, whether it's words that are being sung or orated - they're very powerful.

Songfacts: I'm glad you brought up "When A Man Loves A Woman." That's a powerful song where you say things you don't often hear in a pop song, like how part of being a man is taking care of his kids. Can you talk about your mindset when you were writing that song?

Watley: I was writing in my journal - I'm a big journaler and encourage everyone to journal because sometimes you have thoughts that you don't want to tell everyone but you need to express somewhere. I was going through a lot of turmoil in my relationship at the time, so I was very focused on relationships. The album Intimacy is all about communication and honesty, so I wanted to slip those thoughts into the song. "When a man loves a woman, he'll respect you in front of his friends."

At the time, gangster rap had really taken over commercial radio, R&B in particular, so it was also my way of counteracting the themes that were very misogynistic and sexist.

I was an early advocate of AIDS awareness, so I added:

When a man loves a woman
He knows the reality of AIDS
He won't bring it home to you
By some other love he's made

So it's about fidelity and the beautiful side of love. 

When a man loves a woman
You'll surely know
And it's as special
As an April snow

Some of it was specific to me, some not.

When a man loves a woman
He'll never raise his fist
He'll know it doesn't make him more a man
To do this

I wanted to touch upon domestic violence. That album was relationship-themed and topical.

There were remixes I approved with the song same-sex: "When a man loves a man, when a woman loves a woman." It was quite controversial at the time because it was unexpected from me. It wasn't contrived to be controversial, but I wanted it to be about couples having conversations about what's really going on in the relationship, and it's not always easy. So that was the inspiration behind the album and that song. 

Songfacts: What was the inspiration behind your very first hit, "Looking For A New Love"?

Watley: "Looking For A New Love" was the last song written for my solo debut. Jheryl Busby, who signed me to MCA Records - rest in peace - when I went in, I had a vision for how I wanted to be presented. I didn't just want to be some cute girl, I wanted to own my career. I'm a songwriter, I have ideas on production, the visuals, everything. So Jheryl Busby co-signed on it, and when I turned in the album, he said, "Jody, I think you need one more. It's great what you've done but you need one more." It just so happened I was going through something in a relationship, and that was the one more.

In my collaborations with Andre Cymone, he would give me tracks of instrumentals, and I would tell him I'd want one in a certain vibe. I'd give him a framework and he'd give me a cassette tape of tracks to pick from. Often the ones that he thought I would go for weren't the ones I picked. He said I would go for the more off-the-beaten-track tracks. So I picked that track, and it was one of the easiest songs I wrote because the lyrics were straight off the top of my head. I sat down with my recorder and sang:

Gave you love, you did me wrong
Didn't know what to do
But baby, I'm strong...

It was a breakup song, but I definitely wanted to, as a woman and a writer, not be weak about it. I wanted it to be very empowering for girls and women. I love the line, "Baby I'm strong, I'm gonna get over you. A new love I'm gonna choose." That's the strength that I love.

Songfacts: Where did you come up with the line, "Hasta la vista, baby"?

Watley: I have no idea. The whole song was like a gift from God - it just came to me. I wanted to say, "Go away, see ya," and I do have Latino friends, so it was maybe something that stuck with me, that attitude of, "Hasta la vista." And not just that, but the "baby," adding that on the end. Arnold Schwarzenegger obviously liked the line because he then made it even more famous. But it has just the right amount of attitude and sassiness to go with what the song is about, and that's a send-off, like, "Hasta la vista, baby... bye."

Songfacts: So you wrote "Don't You Want Me" before that, which has the line, "Are you looking for a new love, or does commitment seem to bring you down."

Watley: I love "Don't You Want Me." Franne Golde and I wrote that with David Bryant. I met Franne Golde, who is a phenomenal songwriter in her own right. We were introduced through Warner Chappell Music - she's from Chicago too. We were just humming melodies. I was at her home and she was playing the piano. Out of that came "Don't You Want Me." My idea was to convey the uncertainty and the vulnerability of when you meet someone and you don't know where they stand in that commitment line: Are you looking for a new love, or does commitment seem to bring you down?

One of the greatest achievements for me as an artist is that as a songwriter, when I sing these songs to this day - the new ones and the classics - it is so fulfilling that these are my songs, they came from my heart. I enjoy to this day singing them.

Some artists, when they're starting out, they just do what the record company wants them to do. They give in and don't have an identity. To know who I am, it's standing the test of time. To be able to communicate the different sides of me is very rewarding.

Songfacts: You had a very strong identity and also very distinctive tracks to work with. Do you know what Andre Cymone was using to create those tracks?

Watley: Not really. He would bring in just the guitar part or bassline, then when we got together and I'd say, "OK, I like this one," he would fill it in. Andre didn't write lyrics and melody, he just wrote tracks. 

Now, with "The Healing" and "Sanctuary," I've written some great songs with another writer named Rodney Lee, going into my electronic, ambient, chill, house music eras. I usually have a specific direction, and I've been introduced to other writers through my publisher, and we didn't hit it off at all.

I can't collaborate on lyrics with anyone because you and I may see it in a whole different way, and I know how I want to sing it. So as I'm writing the lyrics, I'm singing it just as it's coming out of my heart. They both go together. So I never collaborate with anyone on the lyrics or the melody.

Songfacts: Does that mean that Rakim wrote his verses to your lyric on "Friends"?

Watley: Yes. That was very specific to him. We were labelmates at MCA, and I reached out to them [Eric B. & Rakim]. Initially, they didn't think it would work, but luckily it worked out.

Rakim loved the song. It's a song about betrayal.

"Paid In Full" was out at the time - it's one of my favorite rap/hip-hop songs. The tone of his voice, the delivery, his flow... he's the only person I envisioned on the song. There wasn't a guidepost on how those collaborations were supposed to be, so I sent him what I wrote:

Have you ever been stabbed in the back
By someone you thought was really cool?

He said, "Just tell me anything in particular that you want me to say," and I said, "No, you do your thing." And he nailed it right from the first line: "Friends are hard to find, so be careful." I often deliver his rhymes in my show because we've never actually performed it together in concert. At some point the schedules will allow. But it was a perfect match.

Songfacts: How do you feel about the "Do They Know It's Christmas" lyric?

Watley: It was an honor to be a part of that historic record. The lyrics are a bit problematic, for sure, but that day, we had all just watched the documentary about the famine in Ethiopia, and there was the camaraderie of everyone being there. Most of them knew each other. I was the only American woman, and then Kool & The Gang were there - they were in London doing a concert and I was living in London.

But the intent and the meaning, it's a great song. "Feed the world" is true. And to that, my dad used to say, "Make every day Christmas," in that if you want to be giving and charitable, don't wait for Christmas. So, "Feed the world, let them know it's Christmas time again," I think about how we should be charitable every day. But, "Thank God it's them instead of you," it could have been fleshed out.

Songfacts: What's a song that's close to your heart that we haven't talked about yet?

Watley: I wrote a song at the beginning of the pandemic called "The Healing." It's a spoken-word song about this world and this society and how things are going. It's such an important, inspirational song. Learn the lessons of the past, create more love. Create more abundance in the now because now is what we have and what we make of life.

My song "Sanctuary" is a reminder of the importance of home and creating joy and abundance. If we have children, what we're sending them out into the world with. Sanctuary is our home. Leave the world behind as you close the door. An environment of love, a safe place to fall. I think if people had more loving home lives, they wouldn't be so awful when they go out into the world.

"Whatever" is from my Renderings EP, which is out now. The first line is:

Life can be a challenge at times, overwhelming
Everybody needs someone to love, someone to care

When you have massive hits like I do, as you continue to grow and evolve as an artist, which I continue to do...

People think "Shaft" is the only song Isaac Hayes ever had, but his real fans - and I am one of them - know the depth. Prince, same thing. Everybody loves "Purple Rain," but what about "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker"? The album cuts.

As a writer that continues to write and record, it's like, check out the whole catalog, don't get stuck on the first few, because you miss a lot. It's all distinctively Jody Watley and it's uplifting, you have fun to it, but then it's thoughtful things and music to chill by. So I say, check out the whole, ongoing discography.

Songfacts: What's a song by another artist that had a big impact on you as a songwriter?

Watley: The song that comes into my mind is "The Tracks Of My Tears." Smokey Robinson is one of the greatest songwriters of all time and a great storyteller. "People say I'm the life of the party 'cause I tell a joke or two." It's great. "Take a good look at my face, you'll see the smile looks out of place." He's just a great songwriter.

Stevie Wonder is another of my favorites. "As" is one of my favorite songs of all time. When that came out, I was in high school. Roberta Flack is another one of my favorites. You want to have that type of quality and longevity that your songs can resonate not just on trends but through generations.

April 7, 2022

Jody Watley's official site is jodywatley.net. Follow her on social media @jodywatley.

More interviews:
Lamont Dozier
Kipper Jones (hit songwriter for Brandy and Vanessa Williams)
Kristine W

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