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WE. ARE. NOT. THE. ADMISSIONS. OFFICE. are you studying? no? then go study.


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ETH vs EPFL

Hi Guys,

I am deciding between EPFl and ETHz Zurich for the Bachelor o of Computer Science:

What are the pros and cons of each one? My Pros and cons. (Internships, future, student life)

Which are your opinions on 1- teaching 2- Furure career 3- Student life. Maybe you want to comment something extra:

To me:

PROS

EPFL:

- Possibility to do summer internships (ETHz not possible due to calendar)

- More specialitzation on data science on the curriculum

- More relaxed and international friendly

- Better student life?

CONS:

- Not as renowned

- Live far frome campus

- Campus is ugly?

- Not a lot of Alumni in consulting or top companies.

ETH:

- More worlwide renowned

- Zurich

- Georgeous buildings

- Far better exchanges (Princeton, MIT etc)

- Famous people and Tech labs and offices around.

- Live in the middle of Zurich

CONS:

ETH

- I have heard it is very hard

- More serious?

- No summer internships due to calendar

- Poor student life

Opinions?

Many thanks!

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Hi !!! Your analysis in general of the two schools is ok. I am not a computer scientist but i can tell you about the overall the feeling that you get from each of these schools. As you are about to start a bachelors which is just an entrance degree to much cooler stuff I would say that both these institutions are the same. Meaning both have extremely high reputation in the world, both are very tough in terms of exams and neither of the experiences will have anything to the envy of the other. Switzerland is a small country and relatively connected which means internships are really a function of how motivated you are as well as your ability to adapt and speak the language. As far as exchange goes both these schools have really easy exchanges with top top schools in the states. The vibe in both schools is competitive and although the appeal of a big city such as Zurich is very nice, at the bsc level a student city can really immerse you in a ton of fun and contacts. I recommend you to chose based on the question " where do I feel more like home or like myself?" because its there where you will be able to flourish

u/GabiStudent avatar

Many thanks for your answer! I (not sure) don't plan to get my masters in Switzerland. But anyways the thing about ETH (which I am generally more confortable in terms of culture) is the issue with internships which I consider key. So I will have to think it.

If internships is what you are interested in go with Epfl, they have a ton of resources for getting them (eth has them too but generally for later years) and many friends of mine did internships during breaks and even during the year ( if they were repeating the year ). If I may say keep in mind that 60-80% of students fail the first year of studies and have to repeat it. This is not because they are not good or party too much but really because making it in either of those schools is a high level sport almost. So with that said u need to count 3-5years to get the bsc, 5 being veery common. Now the prestige difference between epfl and eth really does not matter, what matters is what you gain out of your courses, internships and profs. Lastly there is one really positive thing with Eth logistically and its that you can get a masters in 1 year rather than 1.5 or 2, if you have done your bsc there. Now i know that you say you wont do an msc in Switzerland but keep an eye on your choices as things change in the span of 3-5 years.

u/GabiStudent avatar

Wow I really didn't knew that thing about the Masters at ETH, and I have been studying all the details about the courses for months, many thanks! I will consider it! I am aware about the repetition and difficulty thing 👍 What about student life at EPFL? Is there a decent student life or there is too much work

There is a really really active student life, this is if you can afford it timewise. But things are there to enjoy and see things

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Hi, I did my Bachelor at EPFL and my master at ETH; hopefully I can provide some insights on the points you mentioned:

  • Summer vacations: True, at ETH you don't get any. For me this is a pretty big factor, both because of internships ... and because those may be the last summers of your life where you get more than 2 weeks of vacations ;)

  • Reputation: EPFL and ETH are considered more or less equal in Swirzerland, outside ETH is more prestigious, but I don't think the difference is huge. Keep in mind that 99.9% of the people would not have heard of either

  • Difficulty: Comparable; both programs routinely fail ~60% of the first year students

  • Student life: Depend on what you prefers. EPFL has a real campus close to the lake. There is a nice campus vibe but there is not much else there. ETH has two campuses, one of which is in the middle of the city. There was not really a campus feel, but I loved being that central.

  • Exchange: As you mentioned, ETH has some places in unis such as MIT or Princeton, but they're very very hard to get. I would not count on it as a factor when making the choice. Overall, I have the impression that going on exchange from EPFL is easier, as they are a lot less strict on requirements, while I have seen that most ETH students lose one semester going on exchange.

  • Post-degree opportunities: ETH has better opportunities, but I think it's mostly related to its location. Zurich is obviously the economic capital of Switzerland, while there's not much in Lausanne. Barring companies coming on campus for career fairs, I don't think you will have trouble with any of those two names on your cv finding a job.

Also, worth keeping in mind that it's fairly straightforward to switch at Master level.

Hope this helped, feel free to ask more questions if you have any further doubts !

u/GabiStudent avatar

Wow! Such a good and insightful answer! Probably you are the best person to answer the question so many thanks for your time! Yeah, Probably I Wil be heading to EPFL for the summer things! I am a little bit sacred as you say so many students fail! Doesn't that condition your GOA/Marks for your future masters or jobe? Or it is irrelevant? So I understand EPFL is nice overall and lacks activities or things to do but there is a decent student life in Lausanne right? It is true that some people go skiing on the weekend in winter?

u/deragent avatar

EPFL clearly has many many things to do outside of studying.

Since it is a very dense and well integrated campus there are hundreds (literally) of associations on all different topics: https://www.epfl.ch/campus/associations/list/

Joining an association is a great way to do something apart from your studies (and clear your mind) as well as meeting people.

So far, I have the impression, this is less present in Zürich, also due to the fact, that the campus is not separate, but mostly integrated into the city!

On another note:
The administration at EPFL mostly treats you as a number! So don't expect them to make any exception for you personally, no mater what situation you are in! And this is not nice at all (For example: Get sick during the exams, tough luck, you most probably loose a year!).
ETH is much more accommodating there, and the people in the administration actually tend to treat you as a human being.

u/thieuma007 avatar

One the situational treatment note, maybe you can clear my mind about something.

In September in starting a BSc in the ETH and I’m planning to do paratrooper in the army. In short, in 2021 and 2022 I will have to do a 2 weeks training thing in Summer (not sure about the exact month).

Do you think such a thing can be done ?

u/deragent avatar

This should probably be doable, since the exams at ETHZ are at the end of summer (normally in August). So you should have time a few weeks from start of June to start of August to do military service.

The best is though, to directly check with the military coordinator of your future department (Google "ETHZ Militär")
As an example, here is the corresponding page for the physics department: https://www.phys.ethz.ch/de/studium/dienstleistungen-fuer-studierende/Militaerdienst.html

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Glad it helped !

Concerning the grades, people know that the grading scheme is harsh, and behave accordingly. I actually think it's better because it lets truly exceptional people shine.

Concerning the student life, I personally prefer the Zurich one, as it's a much bigger city, though it's quite expensive. I worked part-time in a lab when I was at ETH, which definitely helped me enjoy more ;)

Yes, you can definitely go skiing on the weekend, but bear in mind that most people study at least one of the two days.

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u/crimson1206 avatar

Regarding exchanges afaik there are 1 or 2 slots for MIT exchange students for the CS bachelor per year so you need extremely good grades to even have a chance to get such an exchange. So I wouldn't pay too much weight to that point if I was you.

u/GabiStudent avatar

Yeah, It was just a general remark for information. I know that, didn't plan on going to MIT haha

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u/eeed_ward avatar

It should be very straightforward to do the Bsc in one and switch to the other for the Master (at least for courses in Mech Engineering department, check yourself for CS). So don't worry too much

u/GabiStudent avatar

Thanks!

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I can guarantee good student life in Zuerich, and at ETH is possible to do internships (in many masters is actually mandatory, despite summer session). So the main con of ETH is that it is difficult? If that’s what you are scared of, maybe it’s not for you :) the environment is very competitive, you cannot afford to be scared of difficulty. I don’t know about EPFL because I didn’t go there, but if I had to decide again, I’would go again straight to ETH, I really had a great experience and if I missed on something it is because I wasn’t interested in it.

u/GabiStudent avatar

What's your opinion about teaching? Please don't get offended for the cons, my intention was to get an overall taste of both unis. What do you mean by very competitive? At ETH is not possible to do summer internships which is the main deciding factor in my case between ETH and EPFL. Many thanks for your answer!

I think teaching is high level. There are good professors and there are assholes professors, like in any university, but NO dumb professors for sure. There is a strong focus on tech transfer towards industry, many professors are very happy towards helping you setting up a startup if you wish so.

I did my internship during summer (MS though, not Bachelors) and so did all my friends so it is possible. There isn’t a specific time to do it, you have to plan your time for the next years (I prepared two exams while working..) and it’s not uncommon to overlap work and study and work extra hard to get everything done on time. There are burnouts, there is a psychological counseling, it’s definitely demanding, but it’s worth it.

With competitive I mean that all the people you are surrounded with are just as good and smart as you, you don’t have any competitive edge, the only thing you can do is be ready to do ANYTHING necessary to get where you want to get. Strong competitions for internships, for semester projects, for thesis projects, for exam results (you compete against the rest of the class, since the results are weighted on a Gauss curve), for being accepted into certain courses.. there is space to develop everyone’s interests, but you really have to be ready to commit to them. The true competition is against yourself: you will be there for 2-3 years, and you have to get as much as you can out of it, how far are you ready to go? That’s the real question. Eg. I didn’t get involved in student associations, worked extra hard on courses, took a 6months internship, began to study German, and finished the master in 2 years. Could I have done it faster? Yes, with less interesting courses, a shorter internship, no German. Could I have got more out of it? Yes, but I would have needed more time. You set your own pace, sky is the limit and you will never get bored. Set yourself goals (timeframe and targets). Just get your priorities straight, your goals, your expected timeframe, and be ready to kill to get there. If you get in, it’s because you have potential, believe in yourself and never settle.

A question I asked myself often while there was “what would you do if you could do anything you wanted?”. Ask yourself that and please tell me if you find the answer, I’m still looking for it

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u/Cobra_Effect avatar

How is your German / French? Doing a masters you can get away with only English, but I believe a high level of German is expected for a bachelors at ETH (I don't know if the same holds at EPFL).

You also might want to factor in the cost of living as neither city is cheap.

u/GabiStudent avatar

French and German percent, I am considering Bachelor. Cost is not a problem.

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I'd argue ETH is more international and has a way better student life since it's Zurich, not Lausanne

u/Syyntax avatar

I think it mostly boils down to how you'd like your summers to look like. Would you rather do an internship and have a really stressful end-semester period (EPFL) or do you want to spend all summer studying for exams (ETH). I only know the ETH system and while it sucks to study all summer long, I couldn't imagine getting as good of a knowledge of all the material by just studying during the semester. Regarding internships, a lot of people at ETH just take a break after their bachelors and do a full-time internship (that's what I did).

Regarding your other concerns:

  • Renown: both EPFL and ETH are similarly renowned in Switzerland. Abroad (especially the US) both are not that well-known but ETH has a slight edge over EPFL I'd say.

  • Exchanges: I wouldn't base my decision on this. It's a long time from passing all exams to thinking about an exchange. Also, you have to be quite lucky to get into one of the Ivy League universities (MIT, Princeton, etc.) - I tried and didn't stand a chance (top 20% grades) because there are like 4 spots for these unis and people with grade averages of 5.75+ will apply. Also, you can always just organize an exchange by yourself, just bear in mind that in that case you'll likely have to pay tuition at the exchange uni, which can be CHF10'000+.

  • Hard exams: both ETH and EPFL are hard. Just work hard and you'll pass.

  • Cities and buildings: personal taste, I prefer the city of Zurich but I prefer the EPFL campus style. Bear in mind that ETH has two locations, Zentrum and Honggerberg. This makes it less central and some of your friends from other departments might study at a different location (20min bus ride away).

u/GabiStudent avatar

Wow! Many thanks for your helpful answer! IA free on everything you said, but for me the internships thing is key as I am not sure I want to continue to Masters (maybe mcuh later) firstly I would prefer to go full time graduating roles after my bachelor for some years

u/elFlexor avatar

Disclaimer: I didn't study CS (I did EE at ETH), so I don't know about the exact landscape of companies for your field. But this is a general consideration I've seen concerning ETH degrees.

I feel like the bachelor's degrees themselves from ETH/EPFL aren't all that useful. If you're not planning on doing a master's and want to work in Switzerland with a bachelor's, then one from ETH is kind of a waste as you've basically only covered the (admittedly very wide range of) basics but not much in-depth. It's basically spending extra effort to qualify for an ETH master's but not using it after, without gaining much experience useful for working.

There's universities of applied science (Fachhochschule) that have a much less theory-based and much more practical and industry-close curriculum, making the bachelor's degrees from there much more useful for getting to work right after (in my opinion). Also I must say I don't know the EPFL degree and whether that's so theory-focused as the ETH ones tend to be.

The ETH/EPFL bachelor's degree was born out of necessity when switching to the Bologna system. In the time before that there was the "Vordiplom" (pre-diploma) that you got after passing the first two years which qualified you to study at ETH for the "Diplom" (today's master's degree). So there's nothing really useful that the new bachelor's degree replaces and many consider ETH studies "completed" only with the master's.

u/GabiStudent avatar

It is true that if you do the bachelor's at ETH then the standard master is only one extra year?

u/elFlexor avatar

It depends on the subject / department, but consecutive masters are either 90 or 120 ECTS (i.e. 3 or 4 semesters)

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u/GabiStudent avatar

Yeah I have heard that. Many thanks for you info. Yeah, I mean I am probably considering the Masters also. I am a little bit unsure as 5 years seems a lot and being the exams on August, being 23 without internship experience makes me think it again so yeah, I am considering the masters options also so many thanks for your info!

u/elFlexor avatar

If a master makes sense really depends on what your goals are and where you'd like to go work at... With many places a master's is not a hard requirement and experience on the job goes far.

As somebody else pointed out, many people do half a year after the bachelor's where they go for an internship and start the master's a semester later as it's not that tightly bound to what subjects you pick in which semester anymore.

Exam sessions are hard for sure for at least the first two years, at least in EE from the third year (and then especially the whole master) was a bit more relaxed as more and more exams were oral which you get over with in 20min. Some subjects also have their exams at the end of the semester but it's a very small fraction usually.

Also you get used to it and will be able to gague better how much time you really need to put into studying.

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