For longtime Chicago DJs Ron Carroll and DJ Lady D, the Windy City in the ’90s was the golden era of house music. And it was more than just a sound, it was a lifestyle.
“We were the avant-garde,” Lady D, born Darlene Jackson reflects. “If you were house, you had a specific look, an ethos — there was a way about you.”
Jackson fell in love with house as a high schooler, and has dedicated her life to finding all the ways — DJing, A&R, mentorship and more — to spread its message of love and inclusivity and keep the genre strong. She began DJing in 1995, playing her first gig at a shoe store, and has been in-demand at clubs and festivals in Chicago and globally ever since. She often played at legendary Chicago clubs Shelter and Metro and has spun at pretty much every fest in the city, including Lollapalooza. In 1997, she and DJ Heather, DJ Collette and Dayhota made history when they formed the U.S.’s first female DJ collectiv, Superjane. She’s been involved with local radio for almost as long as she’s been DJing and is often tapped for internet radio and mix shows.
She’s always had an ear for what’s hot. As A&R at Strictly Hype sublablel Afterhours Records, she signed Chicago-born now-superstar-DJ Kaskade’s first release, 2001’s “Magnificent Mile.” In 2004, she launched her own D’lectable Music label, on which she’s released music from Carroll, E-Smoove, Jamie Principle, DJ Sneak, herself and other Chicago house powerhouses. Her most recent release is a tribute to Frankie Knuckles, “FK Always,” from The Shamanic and Eric Kupper, which features her voice alongside the late Godfather of House.
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Carroll, meanwhile, has been captivated by house (and its precursor, disco) his whole life. He grew up singing in church and began DJing in the late-’80s, releasing his first track, the house groover “My Prayer,” in 1993. He’s an important figure in house and gospel house, earning the nickname of Minister of Sound for his soulful, often preacher-like vocals. He created and produced the gospel house vocal group Testament in 1999 and has had a prolific career as a producer, remixer and vocalist in Chicago and Europe. Carroll’s captivating voice drives Superfunk’s 1999 French Touch classic “Lucky Star,” an influential track in the genre and a top five pop hit in France and Belgium.
While Jackson and Carroll love reflecting on the ‘90s house scene from which they came, they also see the current moment as peak house, a time where both creativity in and outside attention on the genre is at an all-time high. That attention continues this weekend, Sept. 2-4, when Carroll and Jackson play the second annual ARC Festival, which celebrates house in its birthplace of Chicago. The stacked lineup also includes the likes of Carl Cox, Carl Craig, Honey Dijon, Derrick Carter, and Gene Farris. Produced by Auris Presents, ARC is a celebration of local legends along with big names from around the globe, that intends to bring the focus of the global dance community back on the Windy City.
Carrol is excited about the fest, especially its democratic, alphabetically billed lineup. “We put in the work too,” he says. “The people on that bill put in years of work that gets celebrated in many different countries around the world. [It feels good] to be celebrated here with your peers from over there… we’re family.”
Ahead of the big fest, taking place at the Union Park, Jackson and Carroll spoke with Billboard for a lively, in-depth chat on the state of house today. Below, they discuss if Beyoncé and Drake tapping into four-on-the-floor is a positive for the scene, what the golden era clubs were really like, and their hopes for dance music (hint: maybe not everyone needs to be a DJ).
How would you assess the state of house music today?
Ron Carroll: To me personally, it is at an all-time high. [There are] so many different styles and varieties of house music that are so good nowadays. Years ago, you had one sound that was produced great and sounded great. And then other things were really haphazard, they were produced badly. I think now, the music is at an all-time high level as far as production, quality, and even the people creating it.
Darlene Jackson: I would have to agree completely. It really has had its come-up. I think this is definitely a moment right now, when you’re talking about house in mainstream media vehicles. And I would like to believe that we will be hearing house music on the radio, because that’s the last frontier. It really hasn’t had a space on domestic U.S. radio in 30 years or so.
Carroll: That’s true. The radio is a big benefactor. When we were growing up, the radio helped us learn about different tracks and different artists. And then we had what we call the diva era, where we had the CeCe [Peniston]s and Robin [S.]es, those were the times.
Nowadays, mainstream companies are picking up DJs — the Calvin Harrises, the Diplos. They’re getting radio play because they’re working with a lot of mainstream artists. The [dance] vocalists need a shot, we need to get back into putting them in front as well.
Jackson: [Well,] we’re not talking about EDM. I’m not talking about the Kaskade-type vocals. I’m talking about real diva singing, which we haven’t heard on the radio in about 30 years. With Beyoncé coming out with an album that has a lot of house elements in it… hopefully because of her stature, we will start to see more and more artists come behind her, as she blazes a trail back onto radio. Because “Break My Soul” is No. 1, right? If iHeartMedia is playing it, I would be surprised, but I haven’t listened to real mainstream radio in a long time.
Carroll: I know that Beyoncé is the millennials’ God, they worship her, I totally get it. I just feel that house music helped her, not the other way around. She had nowhere else to go.
Jackson: A lot of the headlines were sensational, so it really ticked off a lot of people to hear that house music was being resurrected by Beyoncé. But I really wanted to be the person that read between the lines, which is [to say that it was really] “resurrected on radio.”
Carroll: Okay. Remember, when they said that David Guetta rebirthed house music?
Jackson: Yes. [Laughs.]
Jackson: There’s always going to be an underground, because not everything is radio-ready. So you’re not going to have that, “Okay, everybody here in house music is going to get paid now [moment].” Everyone is going to be looking for that edge; the DJs, the nightclubs, the festivals, you’re still gonna have that environment. But the domination of radio and the messaging and the programming has been specific for all the other music — except for house. So why not house? It has positive messaging; It’s talking about things that are inspirational and aspirational, and you can play [it] around your grandmother and your kids.
If artists like Beyoncé and Drake are pulling up people like Honey Dijon and Black Coffee, I think it won’t be long before there will be a wake of artists following in that path. That’s my hope.
Do you feel that Beyoncé and Drake tapping into house, and Bey bringing in the likes of Honey Dijon and Green Velvet, is a positive for the scene?
Jackson: I do. I think balance is needed. House has been on the fringes for too long. We have a very thriving, popular music internationally. Domestically, we just don’t get the shine, we don’t get the love. Even SiriusXM needs a house music station. They’ve come close — they’ve got the Groove and BPM, and some other slightly more dance-oriented channels. I would be happy to curate a house station for them, because there’s lots of good house music that is not getting the shine. There are beautiful songs that have been coming out for the last 30 years that could be radio hits, because they’re hits in the underground. [It would be great to] be able to coexist, to create pathways for monetization and commodification of music that is good and needs to be heard by more people.
Carroll: One thing I love about D is that she has her feet on the ground in many different arenas — like the radio, as well as the street. Her curating something like that would be incredible.
What you think it would take for this country to finally claim and honor dance music’s Black, queer American roots?
Carroll: I don’t believe they are ever going to accept that. We should stop wanting their acceptance. If it’s something that connects to you, then do it, and do it full-on. Be who you’re gonna be, whatever it is. Whatever music connects to you, connect with it, enjoy it, love it. I don’t think we need any oligarchs to tell us what’s popular and what’s not, what you should dance to, what you should hear.
When you look at the kids today, they have everything on their [music] players. This one Black kid [I met] had rock, dance, regular house, old-school [house] like Derrick Carter and Green Velvet, rap, trap, he had everything on there. I think that the kids today love it all and want to experience it all.
Jackson: With most industries, people have to figure out how they’re going to benefit. How are they making money from it? The thing is, house music makes people money. House music is in commercials and movies, and it is the soundtrack of our lives. The only place where house music isn’t really shoved down peoples’ throats is on the radio.
When it comes to house music, there are things that we have to be loud and proud about. We have to make people understand it is a Black American musical art form born on the south and west sides of Chicago by Black and brown youth, coming out of and influenced by gay culture. We’re all in this together. Let’s keep that narrative going. Let’s focus on making that story more well-known… I think it’s a historical movement that deserves its place in history.
Carroll: And let me add that the city that created it needs to respect it first. This city doesn’t respect it. Where is our museum at? We should be playing it everywhere. This should be the Mecca. It is, in a sense, because you still come here and can go out every day of the week and go somewhere and find that niche of music. But the governmental bodies, blah, blah, they need to respect the art—
Jackson: I will stop you there. It was a long time coming, but I think they do, and I think that it’s getting there. It’s still in its infancy. It took a while for them to realize, but I think our Department of Cultural Affairs especially, is doing a job of getting there…
Yes, we need to be driving more tourism here based on house music, because people internationally want us to do these things. They want it here in the same way that Detroit has a big techno fest, Movement. We definitely need more of it and less bureaucracy, and as artists we need to be involved in the process. It has to be something that’s collaborative with the people who care most.
What do you feel is the importance of having a big event like ARC Fest celebrating Chicago house and some of its OGs, along with younger house artists from around the world? Do you think that’s important? Do you want to see more of that?
Jackson: Absolutely! That’s what I’ve been saying all along. There have been other festivals around town that focus on a certain thing or a particular audience. A couple festivals have tried to do the thing where it’s a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
You can’t listen to everybody, but striking the right balance of acknowledging the birthplace of house and how you’ve gotten to where you are should be a requisite for every [dance music] concert and venue promoter. House music comes before all of the stuff that is happening now, it predates everything that is going on. There are people here that would love to have the opportunity to enlighten and expose and put forth this wonderful music. And we don’t want it co-opted either, we don’t want you calling stuff house that isn’t house.
Carroll: For ARC, I give them kudos because everyone’s name is together [on the lineup]. There’s no big [font] names of the major guys and then the Chicago guys get their names real small; everybody’s equal. That’s what I like about the billing aspect of it. Now we’re billed with them in our own home. That is a great feeling and it’s a wonderful thing. I think ARC is incredible. I think it’s gonna be one of those really major things to do every year.
Do you feel like you and other pillars of the Chicago house scene are finally getting your flowers, or not yet?
Jackson: I always say it’s is it’s a cycle. So sometimes you’re up, sometimes you’re down — and as long as you’re on that wheel of fortune, you’re gonna see your day. I mean, I still have stuff I want to do, and I think that a lot of it is up to me. I feel like sometimes yes, absolutely.
Carroll: I used to think there were certain things that defined flowers. As I matured mentally, I realized all of them are: The fact that we can do what we do continuously and live off of it, and bring joy to the people — whether it’s 30, 3,000 or 30,000 — that is flowers every day. I promise you. I used to be like, “Man, I gotta get to here. Then I gotta get to HERE.” Now I just want to play, express myself, be free, and give love to the people. And to see their smiles come back at me, it’s a beautiful thing. [When I do that,] I’m going to always feel like I’m that young dude back in the day.
What’s your biggest hope for house music and perhaps the broader dance music community in the U.S.?
Jackson: I would love to see a mix of my great pioneers, veterans, trailblazers — and also, bringing in younger talent. More mentorship and leadership in that area. Not everybody is going to be a rock star. And a lot of us have kids that we raised and trotted out to the picnics and fests and beach parties, and I think it would be great to pull their energy into the space. The young people who are trying to do things, we are making space available to them, we just need to open it up a little bit more.
Carroll: I think we need more people to stop trying to be a DJ and use their other talents. There are people in Europe right now who know how to DJ, but they’re more versed at marketing, so they get behind someone who is a prominent DJ. Those people are visionaries — they can look at you and say, “I’m gonna take your talent and go here.” You don’t always have to be the main character in the story in order to make money. So I would like to see house have more business development.