/r/Parenting is the place to discuss the ins and out as well as ups and downs of child-rearing. From the early stages of pregnancy to when your teenagers are finally ready to leave the nest (even if they don't want to) we're here to help you through this crazy thing called parenting. You can get advice on potty training, talk about breastfeeding, discuss how to get your baby to sleep or ask if that one weird thing your kid does is normal.
We live in a part of the United States with pretty good public schools, but there’s a private Catholic school nearby that is really good as well. My oldest would actually benefit from possibly playing on their hockey team in the future (he loves hockey) and the schooling itself seems something my wife and I would appreciate for our 3 boys: more discipline and structure from a school.
My issue is my wife and I are atheist, and my kids are not religious either. They’re currently only 3 years old, 7 years old and 8 years old and they have never been to church and their idea of what God is is that some people believe that there is a god who created the whole world and some people don’t. They are also aware that there are different religions. A lot of their friends go to church on Sundays and it’s not a big deal. We celebrate Christmas but not the Jesus part, etc.
I know this Catholic school accepts students from all religions and I’m assuming they would accept a non religious student as well. I’m mostly just worried about them getting teased by their classmates if it were found out they’re not from a religious family. Is that a thing? People who have been to Catholic schools before, what would your opinion be on this situation?
I went to Catholic high school. Aside from being kinda bored during christmas and easter masses (which on the other hand got us out of class!) the religion wasn't much of a thing. There may have been a couple more mass events through the year but I suppose 4x in a school year isn't too bad. Those masses were the only time we ever saw a priest. The "religion" class was about learning about the bible but it was more academic--chapter/verse notation and sometimes a talk about what lessons the bible was supposed to convey. There were maybe three nuns around, one taught latin class, but the guy teaching the religion class also taught computer science. I never knew anything about what religion anyone else was, no one seemed to care what anyone else's religion was (any conflict I heard of was more "usual" bullying, not religion based), but then again that was high school so I'm not sure how it'd be in elementary in regard to teasing.
I'm sure not all Catholic schools are the same as each other--though I feel like I've heard that Catholic schools usually emphasize proper science and all that--but mine definitely had religion as a tiny part of the curriculum, a very small part of school "culture" and there were a few stained glassed windows with saints on them in the older part of the school. I'd say find out out how much the religious stuff plays a part in regular school days, and then decide.
Don’t forget that society may have changed a lot since you went to catholic high school. I went to catholic schools in the 1990s and religion was a non issue but that was long before the culture wars came to the fore.
I went to a Catholic school in the 90’s and we did mass once a week, religious class once a day, and for two or three years religious classes were strictly for preparing for sacraments.
This is the experience my whole family had. They were at Catholic schools between the 50s(my dad and uncles) right up until the 00s. Very little change in that time. It was simultaneously boring and traumatic. Who needs religious classes every morning as well as mass once a week? If you didn't attend church on a Sunday you were shamed in front of the class too. Needless to say we're all lapsed Catholics now. It's fine though, we'll repent on our deathbeds. Just in case.
Those last two sentences took me out lmao
Traumatic describes my experience in Catholic school to a T.
My 90s catholic school was mass once a month. In theory we had religion class everyday but in practice it got cut out most of the time when we were running behind on academic subjects which was most of the time. We learned standard science including evolution. No one mentioned abortion one way or the other. It was more cultural than actual militant religion. But the academics were pretty low quality so I wouldn’t send my son now
Given you have good public schools, I'd not send them to a religious school.
You can find a hockey league for your child to play in outside of school.
It depends on where in Michigan you are, the Catholic private schools in my area (northern Mi) make their students participate in anti abortion activities/protests to graduate, they also have been known to shame LGBTQA+ persons. I’m sure there are great Catholic private schools in different areas, but you really should research and maybe ask some former students their opinions. Best of luck to you!
Yeah, I went to a baptist private school and my close friend went to a catholic private school and both of us had a pretty difficult time. Depending on the school they can tend not to be good places to be non-religious or LGBTQ. There were also some gendered beliefs in place on women in authority and such
Thanks for reminding me. My school was an all girls Catholic boarding school, so, of course, people were hooking up, and it was a SCANDAL every time.
Consider your money going to support the ultra conservative Catholic Church/community which historically hates abortion, single mothers, and gay people.
The church does not hate people.
They don't hate them... They just dehumanize them, say that they are damned to Hell, and say that they are pedophiles (while conveniently shuffling their own from parish to parish and diocese to diocese.)
Not to mention conversion therapy/camps and some (but admittedly not all) preaching that women are the downfall of man because of Eve's original sin and that women should be subservient to men.
It sure as hell fails to act as Jesus would an awful lot. The Church may not "hate" anyone by policy, but their actions speak pretty loudly in a different way.
And I say this as a devout Christian myself.
My mom was a single mom & the Church people were pretty shitty to her until they learned that she was a widow & my dad died.
I’m a Catholic single mom and I literally couldn’t have survived without the support of my Catholic Church and community. They were the most amazing support system for myself and my children for years. Don’t blame everyone for the few that suck
My husband went to St Xavier in Ohio and what he says is that the Jesuits did what they have done best for centuries, made a good atheist out of a bad believer!
I would like to second that Jesuit schools are the best of the Catholic schools. I come from non religious parents and am racially Jewish but also completely non religious. My family celebrated both Christian and Jewish holidays as family events without the religious parts. I went to University of San Francisco (Jesuit collage) and the education was top notch. They required additional general education classes like ethics and you had to take a class on religion but it could be anything, like an overview of all religions or even Buddhism. I think these additional classes were really interesting and important to learn about. They never forced religion on anyone and everyone was free to practice whatever they wanted including no religion at all. They also did not take a religious view of subjects during classes and all sides were discussed. The services like the library, cafeteria and even dorms were way nicer than most schools. Overall I would say as a non religious person my whole life my time at a Jesuit school was some of my best education and school experiences. Hope this helps!
Edited for spelling errors I’m on my iPhone.
USF was the first university we toured when my teens were in high school. I had neglected to mention to my atheist raised kids that it was a Jesuit school (not that they would have known what that was), and when we drove up they were horrified - “you want to send us to a religious school????” By the end of the orientation session and tour they were both hooked - they thought the religion/ethics classes sounded fascinating, and the story behind the lack of football team earned their respect. Neither ended up there (one did apply but they’re not city kids) but one is now at a Catholic university.
A Jesuit school is the only religious school I would ever consider sending my kids too. Jesuits are the hippies of Catholicism.
You haven’t met the Carmelites
now they may be, but historically they were not
I can only vouch for the last 40 years.
Jesuit alumni here and this made me chuckle. Amen, or something!
Haha, perfect!
I live in an area of Canada where our public school system is divided into secular and catholic. We would never send our athiest kid to a catholic public school (not to mention he actually is not ALLOWED to attend one, because he doesn't have a catholic parent).
Does it piss me off that 50% of public schools (including the one within walking distance of our house) are off-limits? You bet. Or that tax money is used for separatist education that is exclusionary? Definitely.
The catholic school board in my area has also been vocal about being anti-LGBTQ2S+. I don't want my kid going somewhere where a kid may have been going their whole life, then decide at 14 that they are gay and are no longer welcome by their school community.
You mention that they have a great hockey team, but your kids are still really young. They may outgrow hockey, or may not actually make the school team if it is a popular draw for the school.
Wow that’s crazy Canada has public schools that are Catholic. I’ve never heard of that before. We live in Michigan so yeah hockey is bigger here than most of the country but I agree, hockey isn’t the main reason we’re considering it (even though they did win State champs last year….)
Not all of Canada! As far as I know, only Ontario has publicly funded Catholic schools (taxpayers can choose whether to send the school portion of their taxes to the Catholic board or the "Public" board - that's right, no other religion gets funded separate schools). Most of the rest of Canada got rid of this nonsense 30-40 years ago, or never had it! (It makes me crazy to visit relatives in Ontario and see Catholic and Public schools literally built side by side, yet money being spent to bus kids into these schools, rather than have 1 system of evenly spread out schools).
Alberta has publicly funded catholic schools as well.
Beat me to it. I was told it doesn’t actually matter if either parent is Catholic though.
and Saskatchewan too, but BC doesn't and Manitoba doesn't and Quebec used to but doesn't anymore, and Nfld also used to (multiple denominations!) but doesn't anymore.
Mind you 'private schools' also generally receive some public funding in Canada (it's a way of ensuring they teach the provincial curriculum).
. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Yikes that’s scary. Anti lgbt is pretty ridiculous.
Depending on where you are I may be able to help. Lived in Michigan, attended a few Catholic schools, all my friends went to Catholic schools, etc. I may have more info/insight on whatever school you're looking at if you wanna PM me.
Edit: saw another comment.
I know nothing but bad things about the school you're looking into, in terms of bullying, harassment, hands off teachers... I'm not Catholic but do appreciate private schools for what they can offer, but I'd never send my kids to that one. Nope. However, I WOULD send mine to two others that are probably near you. Depends how far you are from Novi, I guess.
Former high school teacher here...I can second this (I know of the Catholic school near Novi and used to tutor students who went there). In my opinion, as a former student and teacher from this area, the public schools in the Novi/surrounding area are a far better option than this Catholic school. The handful of students that I tutored really struggled socially... The all-boys environment really perpetuates a bizarre social culture (I'm obviously making a sweeping generalization based on a handful of interactions... But that's my brief 2 cents).
There are travel teams that are probably just as good.
What part of Michigan, if you don’t mind sharing? I’m a Michigan teacher. Most of the public schools around us do also have hockey too, not just the private schools.
Yeah we are in South Lyon schools and we like them so far honestly. We also live very close to Detroit catholic central and if it weren’t for the proximity I wouldn’t have considered it as an option. South Lyon, and like you said, and every other school nearby has hockey as well. I just thought I should consider Detroit Catholic Central due to its proximity, and if it would provide a better education/experience for my kids then I was thinking maybe I should try to be able to look past the fact that it’s Catholic. 🤷♂️
Canadian here, I absolutely agree. I attended Catholic school and my kid will never step foot in a catholic school for as long as I'm alive. My school was filled with hate and judgement and the school board also is anti LGBT. They spent my entire youth trying to indoctrinate me and it really messed me up.
I also don't agree that we should be funding secular education but that is a whole other issue. Religion has no place in school.
We live in Ontario and send our non-Catholic kids to a Catholic school.
It’s a good school (strong EQAO results and Fraser Institute ranking) with great teachers but there’s definitely a lot of de-programming that happens around our (agnostic) dinner table.
Does the de-programing negatively impact anything at school?
Not that I can tell. Our kids are pretty polite and chill and I think they understand that people all believe different things and that’s okay. They’re probably considered “model Catholic kids” at school aside from the whole non-Catholic part.
I did have to call the school once about something the visiting priest told the kids, and that was a bit uncomfortable, but otherwise we’ve all managed to peacefully co-exist.
I was born Muslim and married a catholic. Our kids go to catholic school. Kid isn't baptized. We are not religious. We chose the school based on location, not beliefs. We talk to our kid about what she learns and discuss all faiths and scientific points of view with them, so they can make a choice related to their belief system. The board was anti lgbtq2+ some years ago, but now fly pride flags and it is celebrated at the school. I agree woth you re: access and taxes. My long winded point is that the catholic school is better for us geographically, not better regarding how we live at home. We do extra work with our kid at home to compensate and highlight the mixed faith society we live in.
i went to one of those “exclusionary catholic schools” you are talking about and no, you don’t have to be catholic to attend. i hate to say this but the public school kids were waaaaay rougher than us, catholic school kids. at least in the city that i’m from. my schools were also french immersion, so generally a higher quality of education compared to just the “english kids”. yes i know i’m writing grammatically incorrectly but i don’t care.
catholic schools have their pros and cons just like any other school, but like it was mentioned ours are publicly funded so i cant speak to the private side of things but we did go to church every month and we did repent and we did learn about the bible and christianity. am i still a catholic… no. i believe the catholic church is one of the most corrupt and thieving entities on earth. am i happy i went to a catholic school… YES! just overall a more welcoming place to be. (i went to catholic school in the 90’s and early 2000’s)
every private is different (i am a private school teacher) you’d really have to check out the school and ask to see examples of the curriculum.
Yes, you do. To attend catholic elementary in my region, the child needs 1 catholic parent or you need to petition for special admittance. Secondary school does not have this requirement.
There are several French immersion schools in my area - equally distributed public and catholic
that sounds insane. How can a publicly funded school discriminate? At least in the US, anyone can go to their public school, as long as they live in the district.
It's actually even crazier — at least in my city, the teachers also need to be Catholic in good standing with the church, and need to have a letter to prove it. So Catholic teachers get to teach in our (extremely competitive to get a job in) secular public school board or the Catholic public board, while non-Catholic teachers are limited to the secular one. The government allows this specific instance of discrimination in publicly funded schools/jobs.
yes i remember there being non-catholics in high school, didn’t think much about elementary school.
Hahah I agree! I went to a good Catholic school education wise and it is also simultaneously my first gate towards atheism.
This was my issue as well. The public school I went to was incredibly rough, in a very bad area, and they definitely didn't care enough about education. I didn't want my children to be subjected to that nightmare, so we went Catholic. It really depends on your area, your personal reasons, and the child.
Also Canadian in an area with publicly funded Catholic schools.
Many Catholic allow non-Catholic kids to attend their elementary schools because they need the headcount anyway. Highschools are even more open to non-Catholic students
I was Catholic but several kids were not in my elementary school and a huge amount (about 10%) in highschool were other religions or atheist. People just wanted to send their kids to the closest or best rated school in the area, they didn't care about the 1 religion class
The Catholic schools in my area (Toronto) have gay pride flags flying and in the windows all the time. Maybe it's just the area you live in or the administration of the school you're in that's vocally against LGBT people in 2022?
I mean, a significant portion of the Catholic Church is still anti LGBTQ+. I don’t think it’s really isolated to just that person’s area/school. Some churches/Catholic schools do support it but it’s not remotely uncommon for them to be unfriendly towards it, it’s definitely worth doing the research on the individual school
As a Catholic, I'm really sorry. I hope the Catholic leaders in your area get their heads out of their butts. Also- as an American, it's crazy to me that you're paying for Catholic schools. I don't think our Catholic schools get any more funds than a regular public school and you don't have to be Catholic. But you do have to pay tuition.
My parents didnt send me because they didn't have the money- and it really turned out for the best, because while Catholic schools try their best, they don't have the education requirements for teachers or the special ed department that helped me out a lot.
Where are you? This sounds like it must be Québec but I'm in Québec and it's not like that here, unless it's different outside Montreal?
Not Quebec, Ontario
Wow I'll add that to my "reasons not to move to Ontario" list
There are several 😆
I don't even want to tell you how much we had to spend on daycare lol
Comment deleted by user
Yeah and even for straight kids purity culture can be a bitch. I would at least want to find out exactly what their positions are on these things.
I too am an atheist and so is my husband. We sent our kids to a Catholic school for 1 year because the local schools were terrible. I don't want to assume this is the case for all the catholic schools, but here goes...
After 1 year in kindergarden, one son does not believe there is a god, but he was brutalized by his teacher.
My other son, the religion took in him.
I would not do it again. I don't want the hell fire fear put into my children. I also didn't care for the harshness of the school. They pushed the religious aspects pretty hard and it will weave its way into your children.
the reality is that you will be placing your kids into an environment that will either push them to conform or place them as an outsider.
Yikes yeah that’s scary. I probably should have been more specific in my original post. The school we are considering is grades 9-12 and we were probably going to do public school until then.
Dont think that because of their age the religious stuff wont get under their skin. These are centuries old traditions for a reason. They seep into doubt and insecurity and take root.
They have this down to a science with kids.
I mean you would be paying money to an organization that actively protected child abusers, worked to strip women of their bodily autonomy, and continues to be against LGBTQ rights. I’ve even sworn off fish fries and sports leagues because of this, can’t imagine giving them thousands of dollars a year and access to my child.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
And they have so sign of stopping.
An important point to reiterate. I had friends recommend Catholic schools. I'm adamant on a hard no. I have Catholic family and am confused that people mentally separate the institutionalised abuseand use church law to justify their position.
I said it elsewhere but I would never willingly put my child in a building with a Catholic priest. I don't care who they are. The organization as a whole has shown it will go to great lengths to cover up the rape of children. How anyone can stand by that is beyond me. In fact if you are just a normal person who calls themselves a Catholic I will not be able to fathom how. There is a line in the sand and I don't mind excluding those on the other side.
I mean, I would probably not prevent an older child from attending a wedding, funeral, or even confirmation if they attended with me or another adult I trust. But definitely no repeated contact without direct parental supervision.
Unless the public school in your area is a problem, I would say probably not. They generally aren't very flexible (in terms of academic acceleration for kids who are ready, remediation for kids who struggle, any kind of special needs, etc.). They tend to pay their teachers far less than public which can affect quality.
I didn’t go to a catholic school, I went to a private Christian school and absolutely hated it. We had some students transfer from public school (usually for sports) and I don’t remember anyone talking bad about those kids for not being Christian or being from other religions. They were very strict about everything though, wouldn’t allow any sort of questioning of their beliefs and in general didn’t have a decent highschool experience. My friend went to catholic school and made a lot of anti abortion posters ha. So my kids will definitely be going to public school unless they decide they’d like a private school for whatever reason
Comment deleted by user
Yeah I don’t mean to sound harsh, but as a fellow atheist, I can’t fathom even considering this. For hockey or any other reason. The Catholic Church has proven to be a dangerous place for both young kids and teenagers. Not to mention all the anti-LGBTQ, anti-women, antiquated horseshit they push. Hell, a mediocre school is better than putting your kids into that environment. Sending them there normalizes all of the above, OP. And what message does that send to your kids? That it’s okay to turn a blind eye to abuse and outward bigotry, as long as you play on a good hockey team? Come on
My mom is/was self described as spiritual rather than religious and my dad was a staunch atheist. I was pretty horribly bullied in public school so they decided to give catholic school, the only private option where we lived, a try. A few thoughts:
-I was older, 11 for my single year in catholic school and it was still quite confusing -it took me literal years to get over some of the stuff that was really harped on (abortion is bad, makeup is a sin, etc.) -I was bullied a lot less -my teacher, the mother superior, was amazing. A wonderful and kind lady, who I continued to visit until her death in my late twenties -I made some friends who were equally non-religious and I am friends with them to this day. (I’m 38.) -I got a C- in religion and was super angry lol -my grades improved tremendously. I’m talking I went from straight C’s in public school to all A’s and B’s in my academic subjects -the uniforms were fun, I never minded.
Overall it was a good experience for me, but it did take some work and deep conversations with my dad to undo the attempted brainwashing. I don’t know that I’d send kids younger than I was if you don’t want them to have confusion over the religious ideas and values you’re trying to raise them with. It’s not horrible though, particularly if it’s a smaller school. At the school I attended (and keep in mind that this was Canada in the 90’s) the staff were caring and kind and the other kids were much less inclined to punch me and throw my shoes in the dumpster than public school kids. I did well with it.
ETA: sorry for the horrible formatting, I’m on mobile and also have a 3 week old baby so I haven’t slept in roughly that long!
Thanks for that! Yeah we live in Michigan and the school I am looking at is grades 9-12. So it’s a lot ways away but my wife and I were thinking about the future and viewpoints like yours help us decide
At that point they'll have been in school with their friends for a long time. They'll also be old enough to have strong opinions of their own.
I’m a public high school school teacher, and one of the other teachers in my grade level went to a local Catholic school that is private and fairly expensive but has a positive reputation. (And she’s in her mid-20s so a fairly recent grad). She said that she was kind of shocked by the academic expectations at our public school, because the stereotype is that the private school is going to be more advanced. However, her experience was that while the private school was much more strict in terms of things like dress code and behavior, our school is much more academically rigorous. Of course there will be other public and private schools where this is flipped, but I would investigate further in terms of their curriculums and course expectations, particularly in the higher grades.
Also consider how you’re going to feel about your kids attending a school where they are essentially taught that they and their parents are going to hell if they don’t change their beliefs/religion. My kids go to public school and have still come home before scared and upset after hearing this from classmates, so I can’t imagine how they’d feel if this was like an accepted/taught fact at their actual school.
Oh, and an important note to add - do NOT form impressions based solely on standardized test scores. The private school does not have to accept special education or English as a second language students, whereas public school is obviously for everyone. Think about what kind of families can afford private school AND what kind of kids the private schools will happily accept because they don’t need special programs that would cost the school more money. Avoiding a school due to its test scores has the side effect of your child not having friends and classmates from all different walks of life.
I went to a Catholic school without being religious (in the mid 00’s, for reference). You have to sit through a few masses and some classes on religion, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing! And I was never, ever teased for not being Catholic.
I'd be careful with this, though, because I feel like times have changed rather drastically. I also went to catholic school, from 6th-12th (graduated HS in 2008) and my high school in particular was only about 55% practicing catholic. The area public schools were not that great which is why most of us were there. I was outwardly "catholic" for the sake of the tuition discount but that was it.
At that time, nobody cared. Obviously we had to do mass and theology classes. But there was no mockery and no proselytizing in any direction. Some people volunteered to do things like adora