Reddit's Home for the Dresden Files book series by Jim Butcher. Feel free to discuss the books, television series, comic books, RPG, and other works by Jim Butcher (such as Codex Alera and Cinder Spires, et al.).
I was reading a pretty light urban fantasy novel while I wait for side jobs to come to my library, only around 200 pages, and holy cow is it not impressing me. The world literally feels like somebody got ideas, splattered them on a board and called it a day, literally no connecting lines or plot to hold the entire world and ideas together. The character feels flat AF and generally sucks, I haven't really felt like this for other versions of fantasy, but rip my enjoyment of urban fantasy. The narrator is pretty good especially with her range of voices of characters but still not as good as James.
It is THE urban fantasy to me. Nothing can even come close
That's what happened to me as well when I tried my hand at other Urban Fantasy in the same vein as Dresden (supernatural and magic). They all felt twice as slow, half as deep and nowhere near as memorable.
They did gave me some new found appreciation for Storm Front and Fool Moon, though, since they only look "bad" (not even that, really) compared to the rest of the Dresden Files, but they would be top tier entries in the other UF series I've tried so far.
Yeah, it's why I'm always baffled by people that say to skip the first 2 books or to even start at Dead Beat.
They aren't bad books, but compared to the rest of the them they are noticeably worse. I just tell people that if they like the first book they only get better starting at book 3.
I really hate when people say that. Skipping those on a reread is one thing, but both establish rules, characters and relationships that are essential to the rest of the series.
Yup, plus the people that started on Dead Beat. The reveals onThomas being his brother, Susan, The war, how Sheila makes any sense to new readers without Death Masks
It's just insane all the things built upon that are just known and lightly covered in the book. You miss a lot of the build up to characters are acting the way they do.
Agreed. For avid audiobook readers (listeners?), I usually recommend starting at Grave Peril because the first two audio books aren’t indicative of the rest of the series. Lots of mouth noises, breathing, inconsistencies. Grave Peril fixes most of those, and by Summer Knight, they’re at the high quality that continues through the series.
Grave peril is the second best starting point after Storm Front. It’s more in line with the rest of the series with how he does magic, all characters are introduced when they show up.
Dead beat is a terrible place to start. You miss so much, and like you said, major plot lines are spoiled.
Dead Beat works as a starting point because Butcher had refined his writing style to exceptional levels by then, and because he wrote the book specifically to be an entry point, as it was the first hardcover.
I know every book has some light exposition dumps in case the reader is new, but Dead Beat in particular dumps a lot of exposition. The particular scenes I have in mind are when Harry loosely sets up the whole magical world in like a 10 page conversation with Butters. Harry also exposition-dumps again later to Billy and Georgia, specifically about the Fallen and Lasciel. Then there’s also the Bob/Evil Bob scene, and the scene where the Wardens first show up and exposition dump about the Red Court War.
I can’t think of any other book that has so many specific exposition-dump scenes that are so long and detailed. That’s why it’s a good entry point. And it works narratively because by then things were fully in motion. All the ingredients were on the table and Butcher had quite nearly perfected the recipe.
I do agree that it spoils certain earlier reveals, though. But then, there are plenty more of those in the many books that come after.
It really depends on who I’m recommending to. If I know the person really well and I know that certain aspects of the first books will turn them off the series but I know they will actually enjoy it I tell them to start with three or four then if they like it to go back and read the first two as they are important to the series as a whole and should be read early.
For most people I think starting on one is totally fine. But some aspects of Harry are played up more in the first book than the rest of the series and that will turn some people off so I get them to get hooked with three and or four which are excellent then recommend once they are hooked that they catch up on those two.
I'm probably in the minority, but i'm one of those people who'd recommend people start off with 'proven guilty' to get into the series. I'm pretty certain that if I had picked up book 1 I would not have finished off the series. Did some of the reveals hit not quite as hard because of the order I read the books in? Yup. But it didn't dampen any of my enjoyment of the books any less.
I think my reading order was - 8,4,3,2,5,1,6,7 and then I read the rest in order.
I thought book 2 was really meh. And book one was only okay. I almost stopped except for all the hype Dresden files had. Book 3 started to improve a lot, and yeah book 4 is where it really took off for me.
Also unlike the top comment or OP, I didn’t find Dresden ruined other urban fantasy for me. Dresden is a great series but there are a lot of other great series out there. I would recommend Alex Verus to anyone looking for a good analog to Dresden. It’s different, and much more brutal at times, but well fleshed out and solidly in the urban fantasy genre. First book was ok, but it picked up quick after that.
How can you recommend Alex Verus in the same breath as Dresden? I read the first Verus book and it's so shallow, the world building and plot are both incredibly weak, Verus doesn't actually do anything, and all of the female characters are vapid nothings that exist to prop up Verus.
I had the same experience. I was so hype to read it because it had been recommended for years as similar to Dresden and then I found almost the entire series at a used book store. I read 4-5 and just didn’t care. I kept trying but none of the characters were engaging, the world wasn’t that interesting, and I just couldn’t get into it. And I am a series junkie - I’ve completed many other urban fantasy series that were probably objectively worse, and longer, but there was something missing where I just couldn’t get into it. It felt so flat.
I haven’t read them myself, but my brother just blew through the series. He said the first one is slower because it has to take the time to explain things and set the stage. The second was better, the third really started picking up, and then it was solid up until the last three where things get crazy and go off the rails (in a good way).
I plan on trying them out myself when I’m next purchasing books.
I really liked verus, probably gonna do my 4th reread here soon. Second fav after Dresden.
Jacka freely admits that the first book was cobbled together from an earlier iteration that changed dramatically during writing and that it’s very bolted together. But it very much does improve in later books.
Uh, yes he does? Why are you saying that?
By that logic, all of the female characters in Storm Front are also vapid nothings that exist to prop Dresden up. All of the female characters do get heavily developed after the first book in both series.
Fool Moon has some redeeming qualities that I only picked up after after a few rereads and discussions on this sub. Storm Front, on the other hand, has always been good in my eyes, but only got better with time (thinking more about the subtle connections Butcher and the not-so-subtle I didn't fully pick upon my first read). It will, no doubt, be further elevated by the ending of the series, where connections and elements will be revealed that require new information.
I think book one was a rough version of the story. Butcher hadn’t yet found his voice and was testing out the world. He has since retconned a lot to tie back to book 1, which does have the effect of improving it.
I started at Dead Beat, right after it came out read the inner cover and was immediately interested after I finished it I went back to storm front and never turned back. But yeah it’s a genre killer in the time between books I read a lot of Brandon Sanderson, Antony Ryan, Neil Gaiman, and a solid splash of other authors but every time I pick up another urban fantasy I end up disappointed and craving the Dresden Files, I’m sad we only have a handful of books left. I hope he writes some more books in this universe. Like a series on Luccio, or The black staff would be amazing. Or a trilogy about the Gate Keeperz
I absolutely know what you mean. Nothing really matches Dresden. I do have a suggestion for you, though. Check out the Daniel Faust series by Craig Schaefer. He has a few different fictional "worlds" - Faust lives in his The First Story universe, which is documented here:
https://craig-schaefer-v2.squarespace.com/reading-order
It's a multiverse. The two primary series deal with Faust and with an FBI agent named Harmony Black, but there are also some other threads that tie into the same world, and they eventually mash up. Well over twenty books of material there, and I quite enjoyed them.
Schaefer also has a "fictional verse" called The Sisterhood of New Amsterdam that looks like it's going to be pretty good too, but it isn't as far along yet.
To be clear, these still don't rise to Dresden caliber quality, but they're far and away the closest I've found - the Faust books in particular genuinely "scratched my itch" in a way that absolutely nothing else had, including many of the series that are often recommended here in the community.
Good luck - if you try Faust out please do let me know what you think!
He has said he wants to write either a Maggie at magic school (the one Irvin and his girlfriend are going to teach at, I can't remember her name).
Or his current number 1 idea is to write a series called Monster in the POV of Goodman Grey.
I get it, but have always thought it to be bad advice. To much setup in those first books to skip.
I actually quite like Storm Front. Fool Moon is sort of exhausting, somehow.
Those first books spend a lot of time building up demons. And potions. And a magic framework that changes. By the third book the magic framework settles down a lot.
Because the first two books exist to establish both the setting/characters/etc. and set up the formula (Dresden gets a mundane case, then gets a wizarding case, has to solve both cases at the same time before Something Bad happens, both cases turn out to be related, Dresden solves them and prevents Something Bad from happening to (a) him, (b) his friends, (c) the city of Chicago, or (d) all of the above) so that by the time we hit Changes, the formula has been pretty much shredded to pieces and as many tropes as possible have either been lampshaded, deconstructed, or both.
This is absolute nonsense. They're poor quality isn't just in comparison.
Dresden Files aren’t just good books, but the characters are so well done. Jim is great at making you really care about his characters. I think that’s what makes his books so compelling for me. I also love Codex Alera, and while Cinder Spires isn’t really my thing, the characters are solid. I will say that I can’t help but to see Grimm as Harry but maybe that’s just me.
Grimm isn't Harry. Grimm is Jim written as himself in character form. Even the fandom wiki for Cinder Spires shows a photo of Jim Butcher dressed as an aeronaut for the Grimm profile photo.
Alex Verus series is pretty solid. Probably my second favorite urban fantasy series. But I find myself getting visibly angry whenever its version of the white council is pulling its bs. It makes Harry’s white council look like friggin saints.
Alex Verus author is JUST starting a series called Inheritance of Magic. It’s interesting but too early for me to truly judge. Only 1 book so far.
Rivers of London is very very slow in comparison. But interesting. It’s about as unlike Dresden files as you can get while being in a similar kind of setting. But I enjoy it as a palette cleanser.
Iron Druid starts out interesting enough. But dear mother of god do I hate the final couple of books. Ruined what was an otherwise above average series B- or C grade series and turned it into an F series. Seriously I hated how this ended more than how I hated end of game of thrones hbo series. And not for the reason some might think.
I second the Alex Verus recommendation. I only just picked it up like 5-6 weeks ago and I’ve torn through the first 11 books already. I’m gonna miss it when it’s over. It’s not quite Dresden tier but there are moments that come extremely close. And (late series Verus spoilers)the Light Council being such sanctimonious assholes just makes it all the more cathartic when Alex finally gets proactive against them.
I wish they were more popular tbh. The subreddit for it has about 2% the subscribership of this one and it’s almost totally dead. Fortunately Jacka has a lot of his own supplemental material on his site.
Audiobooks for alex verus do a great job for a second listen thru, some are on youtube
Kevin Hearne, for whatever reason, decided he hated Atticus around the 7th book. Books 8 and 9 are about how useless he is, and they sucked so much.
I really liked books 1-6, and even 7. But the ending ruined the entire series for me.
I checked out of Iron Druid in whichever book it was where he took an apprentice and then the author just skipped over the entire training process. It tells me the author doesn’t care enough about his universe to understand how druids are trained, so rather than try to flesh that out, he just skipped it.
To be fair, the training process was several years. Something established earlier in the series.
So either the apprentice would stay in training for several books. Or would never get passed “how to be a Druid - for dummies” by the end of the series.
Yeah but to straight up skip 7 years and be like “hey we’re trained now!”
Even a montage of flashbacks would have been something. But it sounds like I dodged a bullet by stopping there.
Finally someone else that acknowledges how much the end of Iron Druid sucks! I hate how the power level kinda changed the last few books.
Finally? It gets mentioned all the time. The whole run across Europe sequence felt like padding and THEN it just gets bad.
I hated how they ended to the point where involuntarily erased the last 2 books from my head and decided to try and reread the stories and that plan died half way through. I'm a huge nerd, I'll put up with some pretty bad writing if i like the premise.
I gave up partway through the second to last Iron Druid book and never even picked up the last one. It’s so disappointing since the early entries were so promising.
Same. I enjoyed the series for its light-hearted approach and even a bit of influence from the Dresden files.
I could even suspend reality that a man who is as old as the iron Druid still acts the way he does.
I mean I’ll read Simon greenes deathstalker series and it gets super off the rails but how everything 180d in iron Druid it was tonal whiplash
Finally? Every time I've ever seen it mentioned that is said
Maybe opinion is changing. I just see it constantly recommended as this amazing urban fantasy series and I just can't recommend it with how it ends.
Is it a good idea reading first books of Iron Druid and quitting?
How do you rank Verus books overall? It gets better/worse?
The palate cleanser comment was about Rivers of London, btw.
I've read 4 Iron Druid books so far and love them! If you're a dog or animal person at all and enjoy banter they're great.
Yes. They literally never get better than the first two or three. The only good character in the ENTIRE series is Owen, Atticus’s old teacher. Everyone else sucks and hides behind “oh I have the sensibilities of several millennia ago” while acting like a dipshit teenager from today.
The FINAL book is one of the only ones I’ve ever just decided not to finish and felt nothing. No regret, nothing. I read through all the set up, the start of the weakest apocalypse I’ve ever seen(Jormangandr gets merked in the first ten pages or so of the final book for basically free).
That's about Iron Druid exclusively right?
What are your thoughts on Verus series?
Very good. Characters are well realized. You have to go in understanding that there are only good individuals among the characters, all the systems outside of them or that they are part of are hopelessly corrupt, while also understanding that attempting to live outside them like Alex does is a primary source of his troubles.
Hell, Alex’s greatest villain outside his teacher is a high ranking member of the Light Mages, and one of his greatest “allies” is a powerful dark mage, simply because the light guy sees Alex as a dark mage and is too dangerous to be left alive, regardless of how useful he is on occasion, and the dark mage understands that while Alex can be prodded and manipulated into acting for his personal benefit, actively antagonizing him is just not profitable.
At the end of the day it’s a bit more cerebral than Dresden, since Alex is any sort of chosen one, he just has one trick he’s freaking amazing at, but he’s unfortunately in the company of people that can reduce your average City block to rubble with nary a thought. And all of them think he’s their enemy. Alex has to make a lot of hard decisions, and you can see them build, and how the flashbacks to his apprenticeship have formed his current code of ethics and morality in the face of base survival.
It’s actually something brought up specifically by a mage that taught him to see the future better at the very beginning and the very end of the series. He points out to Alex how much easier Alex’s life would be if he just fucked off away from everyone and became a hermit, devoting his powers purely to survival like him.
Bottom line, it’s very good, but don’t expect any drag out slug feats like Dresden, simply because Alex is only barely above a standard human in his world, meaning he’s relying solely on his wits and instincts with literally nothing else to fall back on.
Note: if you’ve read all of Dresden and are frustrated with how the Council acts, the Light Mages in Verus are even worse in every sense. They’re more corrupt, more willing to exert their influence (no Seven Laws of magic here!), and way more useless as a governing body which makes the ending so much more cathartic. It’s an entire series of fucking around capped off with two books of glorious finding out.
I really enjoy Rivers of London, the world building is interesting to me. Magic beginning to recover is a cool concept, imo. Also, there are a few Dresden references scattered in that are fun to spot.
I LOVE the Rivers of London!
Completely agree with your assessment of Iron Druid.
I just looked up Alex Veras, it seems promising. I think I'll give it a look.
I’ll only say at first. You might think wtf
Harry is a bruiser, in the top 1% of raw strength amongst wizards and throws fireballs around constantly
Alex is… kind of the opposite end of the spectrum. His power type is very subtle, to the point you might start the series thinking he’s barely a wizard at all since everyone else can cast shields and literally teleport without assistance. But the true strength of Alex relies on how he uses his power. To the point that… damn.
To paraphrase Jim, Alex would be a very scary opponent for Harry to run into.
To quote Goblin Slayer, “A mage’s job isn’t to cast spells. It’s to know when to cast spells.”
Ah. But that’s the thing
Well said.
If you have Audible, give White Trash Warlock a try. The first 3 books are currently free so you have nothing to lose. I had the same fatigue since Dresden was my first UF series and so few can live up to that caliber. White Trash Warlock was a breath of fresh air after taking a hiatus from the genre for few months. Pretty basic world building but defies a lot of the common tropes. Adam truly is an underdog way out of his depth and you really feel for his character as tries desperately to set things right.
Also if you're interested, check out The Black Badge series by Rhett C Bruno. It's a wild wild west UF where the main character is a bounty hunter for heaven. It's essentially the same story as Ghost Rider and highly enjoyable.
Honestly?
I put Verus at best 70% of Dresden.
I got disgusted with Rivers of London because of the constant racism disguised as the opposite.
Otherwise, also maybe 70-75% of Dresden.
And that said, those two are still better than the other Urban Fantasy out there.
Oh—Jim’s son James’ books look at least reasonably promising right now. Though he’s maybe trying too hard to distinctly not be his dad.
Same. Added it to my good reads list.
Just know the series starts with alot of “splashy” magic to get new readers introduced and excited but, some of those “OP” powers go away real quick
And audiobooks are very good imo
I think more than how good The Dresden Files are as books, James Marsters reading of them is genuinely some of the best piece of media out there. It is absurd how amazing he is, and how well he fits the role. I love the books, but I have not touched them once after I tried the audiobook midway through Storm Front.
Its the shot (Jim's writing) and chaser (James's narration) combo that makes Dresden Files so fucking good.
James Marsters is Bob even when I read the books now.
The “Rivers Of London” series by Ben Aaronovitch and narrated by Kobna Holdbrook-Smith is also very good
Kobna is a god-level audiobook narrator. I don't even like audiobooks, but I love those.
Oh yes. His Wizard of Earthsea is brilliant, too.
This is the only UF series I've read that I love just as much as the Dresden Files. It is very very different but most of the other series I have read feel like cheap Dresden knockoffs. Rivers has its own unique flair that sets it apart.
Second this one... First series I've found that I felt held a candle to Dresden. It's not as good... But it is really good.
Try the Nightside by Simon R Green and the Atrocity Archives by Charles Stross.
Agreed on Stross, but would say that people need to be ready for things to get Really Dark in that series.... (as they should, there is a reason why man was not meant to know that stuff...)
I really enjoyed Nightside as a series, but I do have my gripes. Green is really big on introducing someone, telling you how bad ass they are, then having Taylor wipe the floor with them 2 paragraphs later. It feels like half the side characters are just there to remind you that Taylor is the toughest guy around.
True, but The Nightside isn't exactly played straight … I think all of Simon R. Green's novels are tropey and tongue-in-cheek.
Marc Vietor hams the ever-loving shit out of the audiobooks. They're awesome!
The way I see it, if Dresden is like the “High Literature” of urban fantasy, Nightside is like the “pulp fiction.” Both can be fun in their own right, though for different reasons.
Nightside is like a bag of Doritos. It’s bad but enjoyable. Actually, all of Simon R Green’s books are like that. I ADORE the secret history series.
I find the Shadowrun books interesting.
The Magician's Brother series has a lot of Dresden similarities.
Shadowrun. Worth a look.
I don’t know how I’d never heard of Shadowrun but thanks for the tip. It feels more like og Cyberpunk a la William Gibson Neuromancer than urban fantasy so far, but I’m really enjoying the first book. Cheers 🙏🏻
Shadowrun is very much Cyberpunk with magic. It also has faction scheming between corporations similar to the accorded nations, but openly existing to the public. Also various "player races" are humans who have been transformed by magic and genetics. The political changes are also super interesting.
Nice, it’s a fusion of styles I haven’t seen yet. Stross’s work does the tech/Lovecraft thing that I found refreshing, this is (for me) another fresh approach I’m happy to have encountered. 👍🏻
Harry walked so EVERYONE else could run, and he's still walking in 1st place.
i don't know about "everyone else", Neil Gaiman was about 10 years ahead if we only count novels farther ahead if we count his graphic novels
Must admit, I'm just a Harry fanatic, not nearly as well read as I want to be, so I can't dispute your claim in good conscience
Same for me. I have come to enjoy Larry Correia’s Monster Hunter International series, and Simon R. Green’s Nightside series nearly as much. Kevin Hearne also has his Iron Druid which I fell in love with initially, but all the character assassination he does in the latter half hurts it, the last two are just kinda painful to read for all the wrong reasons.