Wendell Pierce on His Spy Portrayal and CIA Prep for Final Season of ‘Jack Ryan’

Jack Ryan, the action-filled Prime Video series based on bestselling book author Tom Clancy’s fictional CIA analyst and field agent of the same name, starts its march to the end with the final season’s first two episodes, now streaming. And through a total of four seasons it might be argued that, along with the main character (played by John Krasinski), Ryan’s field boss, advocate and fellow kickass CIA operative James Greer, who is played by Tony-nominated actor Wendell Pierce, has equally dealt out lethal retribution for those who dare tread on the freedoms of the United States of America.

Where Ryan often tries to show more patience and humanity toward the enemies of the state (and the entire free world), Greer’s fuse has been much shorter throughout the series. His impatience usually comes with profanely filled warnings toward enemy combatants that their time is short in giving up needed secret information before inflicted pain — or worse — starts to impact their lives. And on the flip side, Greer, just as well as Ryan, is mentally prepared to receive torturous punishment for his country, and is resolved to the fact that he may even have to sacrifice his life for it.  

For those who remember Pierce’s highly touted portrayal of detective William “Bunk” Moreland in the critically acclaimed HBO series The Wire, imagine Pierce’s Greer as Bunk’s cousin who even the Baltimore cop is wise not to get on his bad side. This government agent’s patience can be short and deadly when millions of lives are at stake.

The Hollywood Reporter recently spoke with Pierce on a Zoom conversation from New York, where he was promoting the fourth and final season of Jack Ryan. In addition to sharing insights on what it took to make the physically challenging series, Pierce also shared some thoughts about the similarities he sees with his craft of acting and the most secretive organization in the world.

You are etched in TV lore as Bunk from The Wire. What drew you to the character of James Greer in the Jack Ryan series?

I’ve always been a fan of Jack Ryan; the Jack Ryan books and movies. And this was an opportunity to get into those storylines in the longform of a TV series and dig a little deeper. And they said they would actually open it up a little bit and make it a real origins story and make it part of the CIA, and not just military intelligence; so, I thought the opportunity to work on anything that had to do with Jack Ryan was a great opportunity. Then once I started to do my research, what was amazing was to actually go to the CIA and see that it actually looked like the country. That was the biggest surprise! People inside of the CIA really reflected the country. And then I met my consultant, a guy named Mel — we’ll leave it at that, I don’t know if that is his real name — and he was a great insight into what it is to be an African American officer in the CIA.

I’ll let you go as far as you’d like to in the storyline for this final season, but would you say this season reflects eerily close to some of the political situations happening now, both in our nation and internationally? Last week in the national news, for example, there was a huge story about China allegedly trying to launder money through Mexico. Is the last season heading in that direction?

All of our seasons were written well ahead of any sort of current events. One to two years even. During the third season, people have asked us, you know, “You guys, you were right there in Budapest, an hour from the border of Ukraine; was there a whole Russian storyline written because of what was happening in Ukraine?” And we’re like — that was two years before Ukraine even happened.

When we did the storyline on Venezuela [in season two], it was written and shot a year before Venezuela blew up. And it’s the same here. Any sort of similarities with what is happening in the world and with what is happening on the show are really by chance. And maybe that says more about our writers being aware of geopolitical events, but it is always a fictional story.

But you know, when you study the world, the possibility of what convergence is — and that is what you are describing, convergence — the possibilities of two hostile entities getting together; terrorists cells getting together with a cartel and infiltrating domestic politics; it’s all scenarios that intelligent officers have to consider and be aware of. But in no way did we know what would be happening in the world when [Jack Ryan writers] wrote it. It’s a fictional story based on the real analysis that happens in intelligence agencies.

I’m sure you had stunt people, but did you do your own stunts as well? Was it season two where you were tortured in a Venezuelan prison cell and there was an intense hand-to-hand fight scene?

Yeah, that was an intense season when it comes to stunts! I would put that high up there. But I had a stunt this season where I’m coming out of a cold river, and I was in the river. People underestimate the currents of rivers (laughing). No acting required! When you see me coming out of that river, it’s like “I got to get the hell out of here, or they are going to find me well down the Danube, you know”! It was terrifying!

Season two was a little more heavy lifting for me. But that’s the two aspects of being an intelligence officer. There is the chess match, the intellectual analysis and kind of study of human behavior, which is so important in gaining other people’s trust and gaining them as an asset. And then you have the the military action and physical nature. And when you become in a leadership position, you do the former a little bit more, but you still get into the field every once in a while.

Seeing you go in and out of various jazz clubs in New York during your down time, and seeing your style, did you put some of that into the James Greer character?

Yeah! There’s a little bit of me in all of my characters. If I had the chance, you would see James Greer in a jazz club. The flip of that is that as an actor traveling the world, I got to hear a lot of great music. I lived in Budapest for a year and a half. We shot the last two seasons back-to-back. And, basically, I made it one word, I would jump in a cab and say, “Budapestjazzclub!” The Budapest jazz club was my hang, it was my second home.

I think we can say that in season four there’s more of a focus than the previous seasons on how CIA agents balance work with their family lives. This is particularly true with the James Greer story arc. How did you navigate through those scenes?

That came out of all the research as well. All the officers told me how difficult doing the work can be on family and relationships. It takes its toll. And I had actually wanted to explore that. That was a request of mine to the producers. I said I wanted to explore that at some point, and I was really happy when that script showed up at some point and they said, “We are going to take that line where we start to see that impact, how that can negatively impact your family.”

There’s an old adage that states “truth is stranger than fiction,” and sometimes the truths that we all see still may make us say, “that can’t be real” or “that’s unbelievable.” Did you have any of those types of moments or experiences preparing for and performing this role?

You know, Shakespeare said it the best, “…to hold as ‘twere the mirror up to nature…”  You know, reflect that which is real, that which is authentic. The thing that really intrigues me about the work I did with the CIA is the fact that, like actors, we are students of human behavior; they are students of behavior as well.

An officer who is a diplomat, knowing that all of the other diplomats are also probably part of intelligence agencies, they would have dinner parties. … part of that dinner party was really sussing out who that person was. I remember an officer telling me that sometimes his wife would say, “I don’t know if you know this about the ambassador’s wife but she said they are having some issues about this or that or whatever,” and that would be an opening instead of trying to figure out how to get at that ambassador. And also, you may see something in the ambassador’s wife as an opportunity to say, “We can come help you with a situation. In return, we would like to know certain things to get you as an asset.” Which we all have seen in various espionage movies, but to know that is really happening is really fascinating.

And the other thing behind the scenes that I felt was really fantastic, and I asked this of my consultant, I said, “How can you be an African American officer knowing what this agency has done in our community?” He said, “We fight racism wherever we would find it.” He said, “I chose to fight it inside of the CIA instead of outside of the CIA. And I made that decision as a young man that if I wanted to change the CIA or put them in check about what they are doing, I wanted to be on the inside in my attempts of doing that.” I was like wow!

Then, he asked a question of me, “You consider yourself an American, right? So, I ask this question of you, how can you be an American knowing what this country has done to the community? You still find a way to say I want to make it a more perfect union; to make you want to continue to give it hope.” I found that interesting. I thought the CIA would be full of nothing but jarheads. But [I found] very intelligent, insightful, smart, valued people and they debate what is best for the country based on intellectualism and really thoughtful things.

The debates we have in the country I’m sure are the same they have within the CIA as well. And then you have those debates so you can declare what your values are, and then go out and act on it. And that’s basically what the role of art is. The place where we collectively come together, consider what’s happening in a story we portray in theater, on film or television that has an impact on what we believe our values are as a society or as a group. And we then go out and act on them in the community. I found that study of human behavior, that reflection of the country in the personnel of the CIA to answer that question: is truth stranger than fiction, or vice versa? It was an eye-opening synergy there that I didn’t expect.

Were there any parts of the secret agent life you found mundane or boring in your portrayal?

Not at all! I found it all to be exciting. I try to think of it on the other side playing James Greer. How do you sustain that for so long? How do you sustain the lie, basically? It must be really hard to ultimately stay clandestine in your real life. One of the things you’ll never see an officer do is greet another officer out in public. That would never happen. That would actually throw a red flag in the CIA. As an actor, that intrigues me, the personal behavior side of it. As a citizen, it unnerves me a little bit because you know they are watching.

This may be the end of the lead character of Jack Ryan, in the series, but is there any chance we may see James Greer and crew in a spinoff?

As a good officer would say, I have no idea (smiling profusely). As this CIA officer, I have no idea. But I would hope that the impact of this season is worthy enough for consideration of other incarnations of this story. I think it’s great to do; I think it’s entertaining. I think it’s fascinating, personable and at the same time, its action-filled.

Interview edited for length and clarity.

Jack Ryan‘s fourth and final season is now streaming weekly on Prime Video.