Katherine (ferch Tudor) Thelwall (abt.1540-1591) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree
Katheryn of Berain (ferch Tudor) Thelwall
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Katherine (ferch Tudor) Thelwall (abt. 1540 - 1591)

Katherine (Katheryn of Berain) "Mam Cymru, Mother of Wales" Thelwall formerly ferch Tudor aka Salusbury, Clough, Wynn
Born about in Berain, Llanefydd, Denbighshire, Walesmap
Ancestors ancestors
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married 1557 (to Jun 1566) in Denbighshire, Walesmap
Wife of — married 1562 (to 1570) in Denbighshire, Walesmap
Wife of — married 1570 in Denbighshire, Walesmap
Wife of — married 1580 (to 27 Aug 1591) in Denbighshire, Walesmap
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 51 in Llanefydd, Walesmap
Profile last modified | Created 26 Oct 2012
This page has been accessed 1,349 times.
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Biography

European Aristocracy
Katheryn of Berain ferch Tudor was a member of the aristocracy in British Isles.

Katheryn of Berain (Welsh: Catrin o Ferain) (1534 – 27 August 1591), sometimes called Mam Cymru ("mother of Wales") was born Katheryn ferch Tudor, the daughter of Tudor ap Robert Vychan and Jane Velville. Her maternal grandfather was Sir Roland de Velville (1474 - 25 June 1535), who is thought to have been the illegitimate son of King Henry VII of England.

Katheryn married 4 times;

  1. c.1557 Sir John Salusbury (d. c. June1566)
  2. c. 1567 Sir Richard Clough (d. 1570)
  3. aft 1570 Maurice Wynn (d. 18 August 1580)
  4. aft. 1580 Edward Thelwall.

Children of Katherine and SIr John Salusbury:

  1. Thomas Salisbury (c. 1564 - September 20, 1586). Executed as a traitor for his involvement in the Babington Plot.
  2. John Salusbury (d. 1612), married Ursula Stanley, illegitimate daughter of Henry Stanley, 4th Earl of Derby and Jane Halsall. Only son and heir Sir Henry Salusbury , 1st Baronet, the first of the Salusbury Baronets of Lleweni (1619), and Henry was the father of Anne Salusbury, the wife of Arthur Stanhope and ancestor of all the earls of Chesterfield from the fifth Earl. Shakespeare's 1601 poem The Phoenix and the Turtle was published in a collection dedicated to Katheryn's son, John Salusbury.

Children of Katheryn of Berain and Sir Richard Clough:

  1. Anne Clough (born 1568). Married Roger Salusbury, a brother of John Salusbury and paternal uncle to her older half-brothers. Their only son was John Salisbury.
  2. Mary Clough (born 1569). Married William Wynn, A relative of Maurice Wynn.

Children of Katheryn of Berain and Maurice Wynn of Gwydir:

  1. Edward Wynn. m. Blanche Vaughan.
  2. Jane Wynn. m. Simon Thelwall.

She was interred at Llanefydd, Wales.

Nickname and theories

By marrying into 4 gentry families and having heirs by 3 of her 4 husbands, her descendants took to nicknaming her "Mother of Wales" well after her death.

On the other hand, since three of Katheryn's four husbands predeceased her, a legend later grew up that she had poisoned them.

She was also supposed to be the ward of Elizabeth I.

Sources


  • Enid Roberts, Katheryn of Berain [Mam Cymru (c.1540–1591), Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004; online edn, May 2008 , accessed 28 June 2016




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Comments: 15

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Tudor-295 and Tudor-885 appear to represent the same person because: Ok, I will go ahead and propose the merge. It seems like the best way to clean up from what is being said.
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Jon Bush II
I've gone through the lineage already and suggested a merge for each duplicate that was created. As long as the suggested merges aren't rejected, it will be fine, and there won't be any random orphans. I don't think there's any benefit to trying to improve the duplicate profiles before merging them away. They were accidentally created by a new member, who has since been assigned a mentor.
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Brad Foley
It would help the research process if there were in-line citations specifying where each fact came from.
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Jack Day
The rule ought to be "research first, then merge", because merges can't be undone. Tudor-885 says its source is the National Archives of Britain, but that tells one little. And when a whole line has been added that needs merging, one needs to start at the top and merge each generation in turn. Otherwise you end up with stray profiles out there which have been delinked from anything that would have them make sense. I added "unsourced" to Tudor-885 .
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Jack Day
I added "unsourced" to this profile, which probably ought to be merged with another profile, but it's hard to resolve the conflicting information when there are no specific sources for the information.
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Jack Day
It's a good question "what would be gained by merging Tudor-885 and Tudor-295"?

My take is, they are clearly the same person. They have the same dates, father, and other biographical information. Tudor-295 was created recently, with no real sources or biography, as part of a whole duplicated lineage of about twelve people. Merging serves to clean up a spurious profile that should not have been created, and which just adds confusion and clutter.

The better quality data should be retained.

posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Brad Foley
Tudor-885 and Tudor-295 are not ready to be merged because: There are differences that would need to be reconciled before merging. Many relatives are not present and there are name/ date disparities. What would be gained from merging these profiles?
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Jon Bush II
I agree that they most likely represent the same person, but are we sure we want to merge them as the other profile appears to be a "stub". Would it be better to delete the others?
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Jon Bush II
Tudor-885 and Tudor-295 appear to represent the same person because: same person
posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Sarah Callis
Tudor-885 and Tudor-888 appear to represent the same person because: Hi James, You seem to have created two profiles for this person. Can you merge them please. If you need assistance just shout.

Thanks, Maria

posted on Tudor-295 (merged) by Maria Maxwell