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FWIW -- Matt Cameron's statement regarding this article and his quotes "taken out of context and shaped into a narrative I had never intended."
EDIT: Chad Smith made a similar statement on his Instagram this afternoon.
This is a tough article to read.
I’d like to think the people who spoke to RS didn’t know this was going to be framed as a hit piece. I bet the Matt/Chad interviews were long & took in every aspect of their friendship, yet the bit they say about Taylor’s concern for his workload is the bit they hang the piece on.
Misery & Gossip = clicks & cash.
You’d think if Chad Smith or Matt Cameron had real cause to blame Foo Fighters for his death, they wouldn’t be hosting Dave at their gigs when they pay tribute to Taylor.
The more I think about the more I think RS may have cleverly edited some of the comments made by Chad, Matt and Sass to form their own story about what happened, with the intended outcome choreographed to make it look like Dave + management are to blame. Without hearing the whole unedited interviews with Chad et al it’s impossible to know what was exactly said. What did they choose to leave out, for example? I don’t know much about Matt or Sass, but I’ve followed the chilis for years and Chad is the most chill, undramatic, laid back guy - not the type of guy to sell a story to the press for kicks. A few people have said that this was an article intended to force Dave’s/ the bands hand - to make him/ them say something, and I tend to agree.
The thing that's especially infuriating about this idea of trying to force Dave's hand is that they've essentially created a narrative he'll be at least asked about for the duration of his public life and career anytime he does any press.
How many news aggregators and other sites are going to run with writing about this article now? How many people on social media will see just enough of this to get the impression "Taylor wanted to quit/scale back/not tour and Dave Grohl wouldn't let him and that killed him"
That's going to be the takeaway. That is going to be the thing that Dave will be forced to deal with for the rest of his life. As if, he doesn't have fucking enough pain and baggage from this shit.
It’s already been picked up and is gaining traction unfortunately. If you search for ‘Taylor Hawkins’ on Google there are already a ton of counter-articles.
To quote a t-shirt that once graced the cover of Rolling Stone: Corporate Magazines Still Suck
I said this over in the Pearl Jam sub but maybe it was Taylor just venting to friends like “damn this schedule is getting tougher and I can’t do it”….but never actually talked to Dave and the Foos management about it formally. Than add Rolling Stone using it at as angle?
I’m just saying maybe it’s not as nefarious as Rolling Stone is making it out to be. It does come across like somebody is lying though but we have a few of Taylor’s friends vs an unnamed Foos rep, does seem fishy.
I really can't decide what to make of it either.
It is tough. As someone who's Getting Older and horrified that I can't physically do some even minor things anymore, I can't imagine how that would feel if my job depended on those physical things. I would absolutely be trying to power my way through it and ignore it and take medication, and it looks like Taylor tried to do all that and more, but when a guy actually says that he can't do something in the same way anymore, like he said after his passing out incident, then people need to realize what a big deal that is. Nobody wants to let the team down, nobody wants to admit weakness-- as guys we're socialized for that, and I can horribly relate to Taylor in how much it would take for me to ask for a change or help. It's never preventative, it's always at the 11th hour when it's almost too late. And this casts no blame at all-- frankly, when it's someone that we love it ironically becomes harder to kind of internalize or imagine that they could be in pain. They have to be alright-- they have to be. It's too hard to think otherwise.
I think there have been a number of famous guys who basically toured to death-- Roy Orbison, Tom Petty, Chris Cornell arguably. Guys who wanted to still be that person but physically or mentally they just couldn't keep up. It's nobody's fault, it just fucking sucks. It sucks to get older and it sucks to be dependent on a physical task, and just think of all the manual laborers that aren't famous who are disabled or die for the same reasons, then are cast aside. The tragedy is compounded if we don't heed the lesson and build a world where we let ourselves ask for help, and when we listen to guys who need help. If we do build that world then it honors guys like Taylor who deserved to live in it.
The Ramones dragged it across the finish line and then dropped like flies.
Jerry Garcia comes to mind.
Kinda wild how there’s disagreement between the comments made by his closest friends and the Foo Fighters management…
It's definitely all legal, probably predominantly relating to insurance over canceling the tour, and then a little fear of legal action from the Hawkins estate. That doesn't necessarily mean the band did anything wrong. Insurance and the family would be eyeing negligence as a possible legal avenue and the band would be watching what they say no matter the circumstances of Hawkins's death.
That was my thought too. I will say I’ve thought for the last five years that they’ve been extremely active and visible but it was only last year where i went “man they keep going and going” not thinking of the toll that takes
I started to notice Dave’s voice getting extremely fatigued when the C&G tour started. That’s when I began to worry about the constant touring catching up with the guys physically. Sure, some musicians can tour for decades, but they don’t do three-hour-straight sets with the physicality required of FFs. Taylor and Dave specifically were doing marathons every night.
This whole thing is so fucking tragic. And I don’t like this being twisted against Dave… Taylor made it known (albeit half-jokingly) that Dave is a perfectionist. I would hope Taylor wasn’t scared of telling Dave about his physical health after all they’ve been through together.
I'm with you, but I can fully imagine Taylor would have been terrified of letting Dave down.
That's where the article is one-sided and full of half truths, imo. Yes, Taylor probably did work way too hard to make Dave happy. But what the article is leaving out is how much love there was between them. Taylor thought the world of Dave, and vice versa.
EDIT to add just one example of a half-truth that jumped out at me: they explain that Taylor was originally scared shitless of recording with Dave, which is 100% true. But they completely leave out the part where Taylor explained again and again how incredibly supportive Dave was throughout the process of making TINLTL. Because it doesn't fit the narrative.
Thing is Taylor was a perfectionist too. He said he would go watch live footage on YouTube to see what he needed to improve on. It’s also pretty clear he was the one pushing the band to rehears. He wanted them to put on a really great show and they nearly always did.
When did the band start incorporating Taylor taking over vocals for 2-3 songs? Probably to get Dave a bit of a rest - same with Taylor’s solo’s.
It's very rare though for a band to tour almost continuously like they had. Many bands will take a 1-2 year break in-between tours, sometimes longer.
This. They had an unadvertised gig in Seattle in 10/2021, and I was thinking while reading about their crazy schedule the last couple of years that there were probably tons of one-offs that weren’t mentioned. It did seem like they were everywhere for a while.
Very strange. Direct contradictions about factual events.
This article it totally messing with my head. One second I think “oh they are just spinning it to make it look like Dave/ management are to blame” and it’s all bullshit. Then they quote Chad saying that Taylor had collapsed on a flight followed by Foo management denying it ever happened, not “no comment” but a straight out denial. We know Chad isn’t lying because it’s Chad, which means that Foo management is lying which just seems totally pointless and weird.
Why do I get the feeling this may become messy?
This to me is the most alarming part of the whole story. I’d love to know what actually happened… maybe Taylor agreed to say it never happened..etc. maybe theyre being over dramatic ab the episode.. or maybe foo management dropped the ball. Its a hard piece to read thats for sure.
It also depends on how the question was framed to FF. Did Rolling Stone's reporter frame it one way then write that it was categorical denial of any event, when what FF's denied was the specifics of the question?
There is a definite slant to this article, but I don't know nearly enough to say how true or slanted it is. The problem is we aren't Dave and Taylor so we don't know anything.
I know I've blown off some major steam to friends and maybe made things look worse than they seemed when I was upset. But that doesn't mean there weren't underlying issues.
Ultimately who the fuck knows. I hope that Taylor wasn't in much pain when he went and that if it really was over work that the other guys pull back and slow down a bit. Assuming Foos survive at all. Maybe They'll reconstitute under a new name, who knows?
Yes! The unknown source said he was unconscious and that was the question posed to the rep...but Chad says he collapsed, nothing about whether he was unconscious. So if he just collapsed without losing consciousness, they aren't technically out of line denying he became unconscious. Definitely a slanted article, hard to read and I kind of wish I hadn't.
Thank you for posting this . I’m gonna check it out now
This was not at all what I was expecting to read. Yikes on the management responses. I believe Taylor’s friends. Rolling Stone isn’t a tabloid either (obviously).
I do kind of feel like by publishing this they are trying to provoke a response from Dave though.
Though fuck yeah to Yeti for setting the record straight about drugs on no uncertain terms.
Edit: some of it was definitely framed a bit leadingly about Dave/the band though, not overly so, and it tried to make up for it a bit at the end. A lot to consider, but clearly not the whole story.
Edit 2: Alan Cross who has commented on this before and has a bunch of connections in the industry says that a lot of stuff in this article confirms what he heard via back channels (not the band conflict stuff, just the F1 and not-drugs stuff)
I absolutely think they're trying to make Dave talk.
One of the many icky vibes I got from this whole thing, and for that, I hope Dave never gives Rolling Stone a single word again. As for the friends who fleshed out the story with the quotes, I wonder if they’d necessarily agree with the narrative they helped to create, given that a large percentage of the reactions to this story are to blame Dave and FF for T’s death.
The may well have been quoted out of context and we can't forget that these guys are grieving too and they're probably trying to make sense of Taylor's death too. So I think their grief might have been taken advantage of.
I certainly don’t think it started as Rolling Stone calling up Matt Cameron and Chad Smith and asking “what killed Taylor Hawkins” rather than I’m guessing them asking for testimony towards him and what they knew since he was known to be close with them and other drummers. Then what Matt and Chad said rang consistent and the story developed from there
The author repeatedly reinforces the idea that touring too much is what killed him, and that's clearly placing the blame on Dave.
I think that could be unfair though, there are actually some breadcrumbs here that he may have had a heart condition that was misdiagnosed.
This could very easily be a missed diagnosis of a more serious heart condition, as could a diagnosis of exhaustion around Taylor passing out on the flight. The author doesn't really explore the medical side of this story at all.
I get why people are defensive of Dave, and I am too, but it didn’t read like a hit piece to me, just one with unanswered questions. Not denying that it absolutely does point in a certain direction, but in a way that is trying to get more info. It’s shitty, but if what Matt and Chad said is true, also kind of fair?
Idk, I am pretty conflicted about it, Dave/the guys shouldn’t be pressured into saying something before they’re ready so that is a dirty play. I don’t think it is unduly nasty or defamatory.
That said, while I don’t have too much of a problem with the article itself, I am DREADING the takes that’ll come from it.
I think the truth is probably somewhere in between. Dave and Taylor could have had an agreement about future tours, which would make the statements from Matt and Chad true without really conflicting with the statements from FF management. We're just missing half the story at this point.
It would be conflicting with some of the comments. They stated multiple times that there was a heart to heart and a come to god moment between Taylor, Dave and FF management about the length of the tour and duration of the set, which the representatives of the band straight up called false and said never happened.
I find it really hard to believe that fucking Chad Smith and Matt Cameron would just say that and claim the info came from Taylor directly and it not be true.
In regards to people saying this is a hit piece on Dave or an attempt to strong arm a response from the band, I would disagree and I don’t feel like it came off that way. RollingStone attempted multiple times to give them a chance to go on the record and respond to the claims that not only Taylor’s friends, but their friends as well, are making. Some of the comments being made were either in regards to situations Dave was directly a part of according to Taylor or matched up or were in line with things said about Dave by Taylor himself in a Rollingstone interview shortly before his death. The writer simply made clear implications that were being made by the quotes of other musicians based on Taylor’s own comments or implications made by Taylor’s own words.
If it makes Dave or management look bad we have to accept that may not be on anyone else but Dave and/or management. Does that necessarily mean that they actually did anything wrong? No, because as of right now it’s in the realm of conjecture. But I honestly couldn’t think of anyone (outside of the band themselves) that would be more credible than someone he’s known since he was at least 10, someone he was friends with before he made it super big, and two highly respected musicians with solid reps, who have been close with him for decades and are giving out similar answers and accounts based on their own individual experiences and conversations with Taylor himself. The writer is just relaying information given and it seemed as objective as you can get when one party being referenced is denying to elaborate and make comments or giving contradictory information than what multiple other people have given.
Either way 5 fellow band members just lost someone they’ve loved for a very long time and are still in mourning and processing it. And my heart goes out to them as they process this internally and figure out the best way to move forward with talking about it.
Yep, that was my feeling as well, the things don’t really contradict each other, but there are pieces missing. Which I think is why I wasn’t angry about the article (just sad) because it doesn’t seem like it is claiming to be the whole story.
You do realize the way he drummed for 3 hours straight almost everyday was fatiguing his health and heart right? Read up on it I’m not saying it killed him definitely but it had to play a part in it
Matt Cameron says it takes its toll and he’s just shy of sixty. He’d know better than anyone. He was Soundgarden’s drummer up into his fifties and still plugs away at super long Pearl Jam shows to this day
I think it's one thing to put all those quotes in context and make an editorial decision to say, "it feels like underneath all of these quotes was Hawkins just struggling to keep up touring". But the way it was written definitely seemed more "hit piece" ish. The fact that they put in all the "no comments" from management/band/etc. made it seem very purposeful to make it sinister.
Rolling Stone is not just a random gossip rag. I actually do not doubt for a second that Hawkins may have brought this up, was struggling with the work load (this seemed like something that was already at least somewhat well known from his comments about how much work it is), and probably asked to slow things down. But I think you can probably leave it at that. I'm guessing most of the information in the piece is true. But written to be a little more provocative
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Same here… the fact that they won’t even admit what happened to him in Chicago is unsettling
Maybe it isn’t a matter of “them” admitting what happened in Chicago, maybe that’s how Taylor wanted it. Especially after his OD in 2001, which still gets brought up 20 years later. I can only imagine how the media would’ve twisted it.
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I don’t know proper legal terms, so maybe they have to be, but I don’t think the band is on contracts, per se, I think they are equal partners on a bunch of stuff related to the music. Like ownership of 606 etc.
Agreed, I think Dave had mentioned that after 10 years they finally made Rami an official member so I think they all are equal partners on the business/royalties side.
It’s all very weird hey? Chad, Matt and Sass’s comments all seem to corroborate each other and yet ‘no comment’ from management. I hate to say it but this article reflects really, and I mean really badly on them, which is really heartbreaking because they are presumably all going through enough with the grief etc, but damn - if this is what really, genuinely went down then it’s absolutely devastating.
It’s not the whole story, there isn’t a chance Taylor came to Dave and said in no uncertain terms “we need to slow down or I’m leaving” (or worse) and then Dave didn’t take it seriously. Chad has no reason to lie either so it’s probably true they had some sort of conversation, but either Taylor downplayed the seriousness, or it was too late to back out of the planned 2022 shows and it would have taken effect later. There are lots of possibilities but not ones we can know about without the band/SAM saying anything.
We as fans know how much Dave loved Taylor (and Taylor loved Dave) so we can safely assume this is not the whole story. I don’t think it really claimed to be though, but I think it is kinda fair (though also a dirty play) if Taylors friends all said one thing and band management said something else to pose the question of why that is the case.
Also, Chad and the other people quoted aren't dicks. They're all friends in some way or another, so none of them would say something that either wasn't true, or would cause beef between them and Dave/Foos.
I genuinely smell a bit of contextless quotes on some of these things. Things like Taylor saying something like "ugh this is going to kill me" when talking about going on tour is literally what anyone of us would say if we were worn out and it was Sunday evening and we had to go to work tomorrow, or whatever. And yeah, he's BFFs with Dave, no way it would go from a happy Foo Fighters camp to Taylor suddenly giving ultimatums about leaving the band.
Feels like an opportunity for a big old article to be written around actual quotes, with a load of speculative journo filler to build a narrative. Good opportunity for a publication to get a jump on a story in a sea of silence.
Yeah so I’m not really shocked about this. I whole heartedly beloved Sass, Matt, and Chad. Chad has been the only eye into any of this. None of them have nothing to gain by lying and Foo management responds finally and sounds contrived. Notice Taylor’s family didn’t dispute it but just didn’t want to be interviewed which makes sense.
I will walk back all my words if each of them say they were taken out of context but until then, I believe his closet friends. Breaks my heart if this is how it went down.
I don’t not believe his friends, I very much do, but I don’t think it is the whole story as framed if Chad, for example, invited Dave down to JazzFest
Agreed- The band and Alison were all together. Has to be somewhere in the middle
I’m not defending FF management but yeah I think it’s a little bit of both. Did Taylor complain to Chad and friends about touring too much? Was he sick of it especially after a year off during the pandemic? It’s totally believable. Did he have a heart to heart with Dave intending to escalate it to management? Maybe, maybe not. There probably was no official meeting or decision at the time of Taylor’s death so management is technically not lying then. It just looks bad.
I also think there is a considerable amount of naïveté on the part of some of the friends quoted in regards to drugs. You want to believe it’s true but a disgruntled tech saying Taylor would never do drugs before a show doesn’t really mean much. He wasn’t there…
Ultimately I feel bad for Dave because this piece hints that he is somehow responsible for Taylor’s death and that’s a big accusation.
In that Rolling Stone interview from last year Taylor really didn’t want to get into the whole drug conversation but one thing he was pretty unequivocal about was there was no way he could do a Foos show if he wasn’t sober. So I am very much inclined to believe he wasn’t under the influence of anything when he was performing.
I don’t think it’s fair to Taylor or his family to speculate about drugs but one thing that irks me is Dave has never been shy about how much he drinks before he goes on stage. I was shocked when he said in an interview once that he drinks 4-5 beers plus does shots BEFORE he goes on stage. Watch live concert footage and you see him drinking on stage. I’ve seen Pat drinking from a champagne bottle on stage. Now it doesn’t seem to have ever stopped Dave from putting on a great show and if that’s what he needed to do to be the great front man he was then so be it. But I think it’s unfair that Taylor gets the addict label and people speculate about drugs and yet no one would ever call Dave an alcoholic.
What Yeti said about drugs is pretty consistent with what Taylor had always said, that he had to play sober. Also I don’t think he is disgruntled toward Dave or blaming him, he had very kind words for the band on his insta post about Taylor’s death.
I kind of feel like some people want drugs to be the cause, because it fits it into a narrative or makes them feel better. The info here really makes it seem like that wasn’t the case. Even apart from what Yeti said, if he slowed down on mountain biking because of his heart, drumming like he drummed couldn’t have been good for him. That doesn’t make it Dave’s fault though, I could absolutely see Taylor downplaying (or not being aware of) the seriousness of the situation when talking to Dave.
Completely agree on the drug part. You can’t take it out of the equation given his history.
Ultimately it’s a strange article and some of it comes off as embellished at times. And the more I think about it I’m surprised Matt and Chad agreed to take part
Trying to pin this on Dave is ridiculous. Seriously, if Taylor couldn't physically handle it anymore, he could've stepped away.
I don’t think any of them felt Dave was being negligent towards Taylor’s health. He was getting tired because he was old not because he had an illness that anyone (including Taylor) knew of.
this is where i'm at completely. the article is devastating, i am just so fucking sad for taylor's family and friends.
I hope this wasn‘t RS going in with a pre-determined narrative/story they wanted to write and Chad, Matt, Andrew etc. being unwitting accomplices with their comments taken out of context. But like you say they have nothing to gain by lying so either this is a somewhat accurate picture or they were taken out of context to fit some RS agenda. If that’s the case then fuck RS.
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Lol don’t apologize for being drunk and angry. I get it.
Man this is.......man.
In hindsight, they were touring a LOT, and adding in Taylor's side projects, I'm not surprised he'd want to take it slower. It sounds like Taylor didn't think it was going to be this intense after a year of no touring but then they hit the ground running . This was already sad and now it's even sadder.
I honestly don't know what to make of this. The writer is very clearly attempting to lay the blame at Dave's feet for pushing Taylor to tour. The quotes about Taylor feeling the punishing pace of FF shows are totally understandable and not really new. Him feeling anxious and unsure about going out to play first shows post-lockdown isn't surprising either. He talked about getting nervous before shows and who wasn't feeling anxious about getting back into the world. He had a bunch of side projects going. It's not like he was going to stay home and do nothing, even when not touring.
The most disturbing thing is FF representatives denial that it was Taylor who needed doctor's attention in December. Like, why would his friends lie about that? Why deny it?
The last paragraph about Chad Smith breaking down on the phone during the interview breaks my heart and makes me side-eye Rolling Stone hard. These people are grieving and trying to make sense of their friend's death. Doing those interviews so soon is journalists trying to stir things up.
I don't think so. The journalist told a very good and candid story throughout this piece. I thought he was quite fair to everyone involved.
The fact is Taylor lived a very public life as the drummer and #2 man for one of the most popular band's in the world. And the circumstances around his death are still a mystery a month after the fact. People want answers and attempting to piece answers together is the job of a journalist.
In total agreement with all of this… I’m sure Taylor did express all of these grievances but it’s ultimately about context. He may’ve just been venting to the only people who would understand that your dream job can be too much work at times and blowing off some steam. In light of his passing, it suddenly takes on a new meaning.
People express reluctance and doubt about things they choose to do all the time—it doesn’t necessarily mean he was being worked literally to death by the band against his will. The article is needlessly salacious at times, given the circumstances.
Saying that, the complete denial by management is a very bad look… but the article seems to state at the beginning that all of those statements are essentially here say doesn’t it? I think we all realise that although Dave has management in place, they work for him and not the other way around. So this is basically a very thinly-veiled attempt to blame ‘the mysterious power at the head of Foo Fighters’ for Taylor’s death.
That aspect is gross sensationalism in any case. The dude loved to drum and died living his dream as best as he could. Yes people have ups and downs and struggles in life but we wouldn’t be even hearing this stuff if Taylor was still here and I’m near certain he’d still be giving it everything in whatever music he was working on.
I feel super conflicted about this article. None of us are on the inside or have any idea how Taylor was feeling or what happened in that room at the Four Seasons. I have conversations with my mates all the time when things are on my mind and to vent it out, so I don’t doubt the validity of the conversations Taylor had with Chad or Matt, but I don’t believe that Dave wouldn’t have taken him seriously and I think he would have scaled back if Taylor had asked.
This does feel like Dave is being baited to respond though and I kind of hope he doesn’t. It’s just not necessary for him or Taylor’s family.
ETA: the more I think about this article, the angrier I get. Who is benefiting from this article? Taylor isn’t here to speak to it, Dave likely won’t speak to it and his family won’t either. Why was this even published? There’s no necessity to it and private conversations between Taylor and his friends and now been splashed all over the internet.
This was my reaction too. I’ve certainly vented about work to neutral friends and exaggerated my situation just as a pressure valve. And Taylor was a seemingly a guy who wore his emotions on his sleeve. So I don’t doubt those conversations with Smith and Cameron, but I also don’t doubt it’s possible he exaggerated it a bit and maybe wasn’t so direct with Dave.
Regardless, this Rolling Stone piece left a sour taste in my mouth. It did feel like tabloid fodder to me, in a way.
I’d rather have the radio silence of the last weeks. It will probably go down from here.
i’m afraid it’s going to go even lower (somehow) when the actual toxicology report is released, and when (or if) the band ever releases a public statement about what happened/what might have contributed to it happening
I hope not. 😢
Foos Management can’t say anything and expect an insurance company to provide coverage. It’s also highly possible that Taylor whined to his friends and relayed a different version of how the conversation with Dave/Management actually played out.
Agreed. Taylor has made it clear he never wanted to disappoint Dave and so possibly the convo that he intended to have never actually happened. Who knows, the whole thing just feels fucking sadder now. And I didn’t think that was possible.
Or he downplayed how serious the situation was :(
I wouldn't say whined but don't we all talk to friends about our frustrations? I mean I do.
“Vented” would probably be a better word.
Whined?
Man, I feel even sadder now, having attended that one-off Australian show in March:
Here I was thinking how lucky I was to be able to see Taylor and Dave in the flesh doing what they love and sharing it with the world… but to read this article, and hear that Taylor was devastated that FF had organised to come to Australia gives me a feeling I can’t explain: Guilt? Selfishness? Shame?
Was/am I in the wrong to have been so focused on how they would – and did – make the best night of my life, that I didn’t even consider the possibility that this could negatively impact someone in the band (Taylor)?
I don’t know how to make sense of this or the fact that FF management denies absolutely everything that many of Taylor’s closest friends have revealed in this article.
Fuck, it feels like I’m right back to square one again: back to when I first found out that Taylor had passed. I don’t know what to do or what to think, I finally accepted that Taylor is gone only a few days ago.
I just feel so lost again. I’m so sorry Taylor