Gary Lineker and Des Lynam reunited: 'My leaving BBC helped make you a rich man, Gary'

Des Lynam may well be into his ninth decade, but he remains a master of the wry observation. He is in conversation with Gary Lineker, the pair brought together by Telegraph Sport to reminisce about the ten World Cups they have between them presented on British television, when he recalls the time he departed the BBC and headed to commercial pastures. 

“When I left to go to ITV I opened the door for you,” he says to Lineker. “And it was a good move for you, a good move for the BBC. Less so for me.”

Lineker smiles at the recollection. 

“I think I must have been the only person in the country who thought it was good news when you went,” he says. “Everyone else was in mourning.”

“Well, what I remember is this,” says Lynam. “ITV threw a ton of money at me, which was one of the reasons I went. And they didn’t move away from the rumour that they were going for you and Alan Hansen as well. The BBC bought it hook, line and sinker and shoved the money right up, well certainly Hansen’s rear end, I don’t know about yours Gary. Did they fill it with money?”

“Well a little bit,” smiles Lineker. “You did us all proud Des, I thank you for that.”

The connection between the two men goes beyond mere remuneration, however. As he presents BBC coverage from Qatar, Lineker is maintaining an unbroken line right back to the 1982 World Cup in Spain, a broadcasting thread that means that for four decades either he or Lynam have been our man on the ground, there to bring us the news of home victory. Or more likely defeat on penalties. 

“Actually, in 1982 I was commentating not presenting,” Lynam corrects. 

“I didn’t know you did commentary, Des,” says Lineker.

“Nobody does,” he replies. “I didn’t even tell my wife that. I’d done some for radio at the 1978 World Cup. 1982 was my first for television. And oddly it was my last. From 86 onwards I was doing the presentation.”

Which was just as well for the viewing nation. Because Lynam was a majestic front man: warm, funny, engaging, he made us all feel he was sitting on the sofa alongside us. Lineker was among his army of admirers, observing his every move with particular attention.

“I don’t want to embarrass him, but he was the absolute doyen,” he says. “Des was someone I really looked up to. I didn’t try to fashion my approach on his. You couldn’t: his was unique. Everything he did I admired. Like his bravery to try and be funny. And he taught me really tiny but vital things like he would never say ‘joining me tonight’. It was always ‘joining us tonight’. And I remember asking you about that once: why did you do that?”

“Because you have been invited into the viewer’s home,” Lynam responds. “So the least you can do is acknowledge their presence.”

It was at the 1986 World Cup in Mexico that the pair had their first television interaction. 

“We shared a couple of two-ways,” says Lineker. 

“Yes, I seem to recall you had a rather good tournament,” says Lynam. “That’s the difference between us: we might have both presented World Cups for the BBC, but only one of us was the leading scorer at one. And it wasn’t me.”

Though it was at Italia 90 that both men really sealed their place in the national consciousness. For many of us, watching Lineker and England progress to the semi final from back home, Lynam was as significant a figure as any. Soundtracked by Puccini, his extraordinarily suave delivery and quips about “shouldn’t you lot be at work” are seared on to the collective memory. Though Lynam does not take any responsibility for the musical choice.

“I don’t know whose idea Nessun Dorma was, but I do know whose idea it wasn’t: mine. It was in Italy, so we wanted an opera track and I remember at a meeting voting for Just One Cornetto. Shows what I know.”

For Lineker too, contained as he was in the England team bubble, Lynam was a central figure of the tournament. 

“I don’t know if Des knows this, but in 1990 my nickname was Junior Des,” he says. “Chris Waddle, Gazza, all the lads called me that. It’s because I was interested in journalism, that’s what I wanted to do after I finished playing. I’d always sit with the press guys and the broadcasters. Oh, and I was going grey.”

Lineker’s ambition to become the next Lynam was given a sizable boost when he retired from playing and became a pundit on Match of the Day. Though Lynam himself had never expected to be the host of the BBC’s Saturday night football round up.

“Jimmy Hill had been fronting all the big football occasions," he recalls. "Then the BBC lost the contract and won it back again. And the head of sport Jonathan Martin said to me: ‘we’d like you to front the football’. And I said: ‘have you told Jimmy?’ And he said: ‘well not exactly’. So I rang Jimmy and said: ‘what would you feel if I took over fronting it?’ And he said: ‘thank God for that’. He much preferred being a pundit.”

Punditry, though, was not Lineker’s ambition. Even as he sat at the desk alongside Alan Hansen in the Match of the Day studio, he had his eyes on the host’s chair.  

“I always thought it was more interesting to be the presenter, to steer things along. The adrenalin rush is the thing: being at the centre of the story, knowing the world is watching, it’s a hell of a buzz.”

He pauses for a moment, then grins widely. 

“Actually, the truth was, I wanted to be Des.”

Though there was a hurdle he had to overcome in his early days on television. As Lynam is quick to remind him. 

“When Gary started there was his voice,” he says. “I remember saying to you: you need to get a bit more inflection in there.” 

“I knew it,” Lineker admits. “The BBC got a woman who had been a newsreader in to teach me how to deliver, because my voice was so dull, all that Leicester accent flattening everything out. I drove her mad. I remember her coming storming into the studio one day and throwing a cassette of me in action on to the desk. I said: ‘I thought I did OK in that, I was shouting and everything’. She just said: ‘listen to it’. So I did. It was excruciating. I said to her: ‘Ah, yes, see your point’. Funnily enough, when I worked on getting more inflection, it changed the way I spoke in private. Before I was all flat Leicester delivery. Now I’m much more animated in my everyday speech.”

With his voice sorted, Lineker admits he absorbed everything he could from the master alongside him. What surprised him is that the apparently perma-cool, never-flustered Lynam, was nervous before a broadcast. 

“Yes, I used to get nervous. Not so I couldn’t do it, but I felt it,” says Lynam. “I think it is simply the adrenalin rush.”

Lineker too admits to being gripped by tension ahead of a broadcast going live. 

“I never got nervous on a football pitch. Even when I was taking a penalty,” he says. “But I do in the studio.” 

“You weren’t as bad as Hansen though,” interjects Lynam. “He was a nervous wreck.” 

“Always was,” says Lineker. “You’d ask him his first question and he had this nervous tic of scraping his foot across the floor: it was a sound I came to associate with Match of the Day. The thing is you can’t prepare for a live show. Yes, you can do dummy runs, but they are never the same, because you just don’t know what is going to happen. So you are thrown in at the deep end. The only way of learning how to do it is to do it.”

And Lineker got his chance to become the front man when Lynam departed for ITV in 1999. 

“I remember I arrived at BBC’s studios in White City, because I was presenting Football Focus,” he recalls. “And the bloke on the door looked like the world was about to end. He said: ‘have you heard the news? Des Lynam’s left to go to ITV’. And I said, trying not to sound too excited: ‘oh, has he?’ He said: ‘it’s terrible news, who do you think they’re going to give the job to?’ I thought: ‘well it better be me.’ And I marched upstairs.”

Lynam suggests Lineker was not the only one to benefit from his departure.

“The same thing happened with Sue Barker,” he says. “I was doing the tennis as well and when I left they gave it to her. So really I did the BBC a fantastic favour by leaving, allowing them to get two superstars in.” 

Lynam’s swap meant that at the 2002 World Cup the two former colleagues were in direct opposition. 

“For the big games that were on both channels, the BBC used to get four times as many viewers as ITV,” says Lynam. “Brian Barwick, who had been at the BBC before going to ITV and had brought me with him, said to me when we did the 2002 World Cup: ‘Don’t worry Des, now you’re on ITV, the viewers will come to you’. I remember his face when the figures came through for the first game we both covered: it was still BBC 4 ITV 1. We got thrashed by bloody Lineker.”

Not that the man himself is taking any credit for that.  

“The BBC always has the edge on grand national occasions. Also there’s the ad breaks,” Lineker says. “But it used to be a battle between us. You’d pore over the ratings, terrified they were going to better you.”

Indeed Walkers, Lineker’s long-time sponsors, played up to the rivalry. For a television commercial, Lynam was filmed resorting to subterfuge in the attempt to steal Lineker’s crisps: he disguised himself as a nun. 

“I remember being in a car with Gary, going to the location, in costume,” recalls Lynam. “We stopped at traffic lights and this bloke came alongside us on his bike. He looked in the window and saw this great big nun in the front seat with a massive bristling moustache and he was so surprised he fell off his bike.” 

Lynam left ITV in 2004, leaving Lineker to take the baton all the way on to Qatar. Though looking back, the pair agree that of the many World Cups they were involved in, there was one that stood out. 

“1990 was the best,” says Lynam. “I think because of where England got to. But also the whole Nessun Dorma, Gazza’s tears stuff. You felt the whole country was watching. You felt you were in the middle of something huge.”

“It was certainly the best for me. 1986 changed my life, but 1990 I thought I was going to win it,” says Lineker. “As a presenter, funnily enough I enjoyed Russia the most. There were some great games in that, but mainly because England did well. You want England to do well so much. In part that’s because you were born here - well Des wasn’t. But partly because you selfishly want to be at the centre of things. I said when I started out as a broadcaster, the two things I wanted to report on were Leicester winning the FA Cup - not the league because I never would as it’s on Sky - and England winning the World Cup. I’ve had Leicester winning, so you never know.”

“Do you really think they might do it this time, Gary?” asks Lynam.

“Well, they have defensive problems, but no one is a real favourite, so you never know,” Lineker replies. “But if they do do well, it will be huge. We are a society divided more than ever, we can’t seem to agree on anything. But a World Cup brings us together, like nothing else really. And being able to report on that is a privilege.”

Which leads Lynam, ever the man with the pertinent question, to ask:

“Will you still be there at the next one?”

“I don’t know, Des. I’ve got a contract for another couple of years and that will take me into my mid-Sixties, so we’ll see. The thing is I still love it." 

“Yeah, I did,” says Lynam. "Absolutely loved it."

“Would you rather be out there?” asks Lineker

“Of course," comes the reply. "No better place to be. But I am a little old. I’ll be watching at home, get a couple of mates round. I’ll be watching you Gary. You’re the best.” 

And Lineker smiles broadly.

“Coming from you, that’s praise indeed.”