ONE OF THE TRUTHS ABOUT LIFE IS THE RULE OF “STASIS”-YOU DO WHAT YOU KEEP DOING.
IF YOU’RE INACTIVE, YOU’RE PROBABLY GOING TO STAY THAT WAY. IF YOU JOG, YOU’LL KEEP JOGGING. MUSICALLY, IF YOU’RE A POST BOPPER, YOU STAY THAT WAY. RARE IS THE PERSON OR ARTISTS THAT KEEPS ADDING TO ONE’S TRAJECTORY.
ONE SUCH RARITY IS DRUMMER CINDY BLACKMAN.
I KNOW IT’S IMPOLITE TO SAY THIS, BUT SHE IS IN HER SIXTIES. I ONLY BRING THIS UP BECAUSE AT A STAGE IN LIFE AND CAREER WHEN MOST ARE THINKING ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND DIABETES, MS. BLACKMAN IS NOT ONLY ACTIVE, BUT WONDERFULLY IN SHAPE, PUTTING OUT OF SHAPE MILLENNIALS TO SHAME WITH A STRICT WORKOUT SCHEDULE AND DIET.
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT SHE IS STILL GROWING AS AN ARTIST.
IN THE EARLY DAYS OF HER CAREER, SHE WAS A DEVOTED BEBOPPER, BUT SHE EVENTUALLY GOT HER TRAJECTORY CHANGED WHEN SHE SIGNED ON WITH ROCKER LENNY KRAVITZ.
FROM THERE, SHE HAS RELEASED A SERIES OF IMPRESSIVE SOLO ALBUMS, MOST NOTABLY HER TRIBUTE TO FAMED DRUMMER TONY WILLIAMS (ANOTHER LIFETIME), BRINGING INTO THE MIX HARD HITTING GUITARISTS LIKE MIKE STERN AND VERNON REID.
FOR HER LATEST ALBUM (GIVE THE DRUMMER SOME) SHE BRINGS IN EVEN MORE SIX STRINGERS, NAMELY HUBBY CARLOS SANTANA, MAHAVISNHU JOHN MCLAUGHLIN AND METALLICA AX MAN KIRK HAMMETT.
AND,WHILE SHE SANG A BIT ON HER PREVIOUS RELEASE, THIS TIME AROUND SHE GOES TOTAL IN COMMITMENT, SINGING ON HER OWN MATERIAL AS WELL AS A RICH AND SOULFUL READ OF JOHN LENNON’S “IMAGINE”.
WE HAD A CHANCE TO CATCH UP WITH CINDY, AND, JUST LIKE HER MUSIC, SHE WAS ENERGETIC, OPTIMISTIC AND THOUGHTFUL.
DID YOU TOUR WITH JOE HENDERSON WHEN HE HAD HIS “ALL WOMAN BAND”?
I was a little bit on that tour. I did a little bit of Europe with him.
Joe was at the Vanguard, and I sat in, and at that point he said, “Do you want to go to Europe with me?” and I said “Yeah!” (laughs)
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“for a long time I’ve wanted to do a record that didn’t fit into one box”
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YOU LOOK LIKE YOU ARE IN GREAT SHAPE. WHAT DO YOU DO TO KEEP SO HEALTHY, AS IT TAKES WORK TO PLAY THE DRUMS.
I do a lot of things. Diet-wise, I barely eat any sugar, if at all-I try not to eat any. I eat all organic; I don’t eat bread except once in a blue moon. No gluten. The only kind of starch that I might eat might be sweet potatoes or yams, so my diet is really clean.
I do a lot of blended foods, a lot of juicing. The blended foods are great because you get a lot of the pulp and fiber from the vegetables and fruit, but it breaks it down so that more of the nutrients are more bio-available , and your body is given a break in terms of digestion, so your body doesn’t have to work so hard to transmit it into energy, so you have more energy to do other things.
I also do a lot of exercise. I take martial arts, I do jump roping, I swim and do yoga from time to time. I’m very active
THIS ALBUM IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM PREVIOUS ONES, IN THAT YOU SING A LOT MORE AND YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF GUITARISTS ON IT LIKE JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, VERNON REID, KIRK HAMMETT AND YOUR HUSBAND CARLOS SANTANA. WHAT WAS YOUR ATTRACTION TO THESE NON RELATED HEAVY METAL PLAYERS?
(laughs) I love the guitar.
When I first started recording this record I had no idea that this amount of guitar was going to be on the record, nor that exact list of guitar players.
I had already spoken to Carlos about being on the record, to whatever extent that he was comfortable. I had already spoken to Vernon Reid, and he had said “yes”.
In terms of John McLaughlin, that was a beautiful surprise, because the first session had Matt Garrison on bass and myself on drums, just duo stuff, as I was just trying to feel it out and go over some creative things. Moods and stuff. We were fooling around with an idea, which later became the song “We Came To Play”.
We sent that idea John McLaughlin, and he loved it, so we collaborated on doing this piece. Fortunately, and to my surprise, John reached out to me a few months after recording that track and said “Cindy, I want to be on something else on the record.” I was totally happy with what he’d done on that one track.
At the time when he reached out, I was in the studio doing some vocal stuff with Narada Walden I had been in my own practice studio just going over some different grooves and fooling around with different things, James Brown grooves, and juxtaposing them with my own way. I had sent this groove to “Narda” and said that I want to build a song around this groove. That became “Superbad” and we sent it to John, who loved it, so he played on it as well.
Kirk Hammett was also a great, unexpected surprise> I had seen Kirk play “live” with Metallica when I was on the road with Lenny (Kravitz). I thought “Man, this cat is a ball of energy and fire, but he’s also musical”. Even playing that kind of stuff you can hear his musicality. I dug his playing from the first time I heard it.
I didn’t want to ask him to play my songs because I figured it was so different from anything that he does. I didn’t think he’d want to do it.
But Carlos egged me on, “you should ask him; he might say ‘yes’”. We have another cat in the office who is a huge Metallica fan, Carlos’ assistant Chad. He said, “Ah, no, it would be great.”
So with those two, I thought “All he can do is say “Yes” or ‘No’, and nothing can beat you if you try. It would be great to have him on it. I would love, love, love, love it, “so I went for it.
I sent him a track with a note, and gave it to his assistant. She gave it to him, and the answer came back “yes”. So this album ended up with some heavy hitting guitar players. I’m not complaining! (laughs)
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“I thought ‘Man, this cat (Kravitz) is a ball of energy and fire, but he’s also musical. Even playing that kind of stuff you can hear his musicality’. I dug his playing from the first time I heard it”
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IT’S A GREAT TESTIMONY THAT AT THIS STAGE OF YOUR CAREER YOU ARE STILL GROWING AND TRYING NEW THINGS. WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO DO SO MUCH SINGING ON THIS ALBUM?
You know, I was planning on doing a couple of things of vocals, like “Dance Party” .I just sang that one time through with a a party vibe, so that was that. Maybe I’ll try one more.
It then just turned into this thing where the track “Evolution Revolution” was supposed to be an instrumental, but as I started listening to it I started thinking “Hey, a vocal would be great in this”.
So I went to this place in the Bay area, and just sat by the water, just listening to that track, and suddenly the melody and lyrics just came to me in a flow. Fortunately I had something to write with so I just started putting it down.
Narda then heard the track that I recorded and sang on Carlos’ record, “I Remember” and said that he wanted to produce me at the same time Carlos is telling me that I should work with Narda. Because he’s such a great producer.
So, we got together, and started writing. They were incredible writing sessions, just writing songs and then recording them, one after another. It just kept on going until before you knew it we had 7 or 8 tracks.
I felt they should be on the record, so the album just turned another thing, which I was really happy about, because for a long time I’ve wanted to do a record that didn’t fit into one box. It had an outpouring and offering of a bunch of different things that I love, but were all threaded together by my common denominator, which is my drums.
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“working with Carlos, it’s like being part of the lineage of the history of the guitar”
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THE COVER HAS THAT BITCHES BREW LOOK, A LOT OF THE SONGS HAVE THAT FEEL AS WELL. YOU STARTED OUT AS A MAINSTREAMER, AND YOU’ VE REALLY PLUGGED IN HERE. SO IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE, WAS YOUR TIME WITH LENNY KRAVITZ THE SAME EPIPHANY AS MILES SEEING SLY AND THE FAMILY STONE TO GET YOU INTO THE WORLD OF FUSION ?
Sure, because I love acoustic music and I’m a bebopper. That is my heart and my core.
It’s funny, because early on when I started with Muse Records, I wanted to bring the Fender Rhodes into my music, but the president of the record company said “No, No No. You’ll lose your fans”. And I said, “Yeah, all 500 of them?” (laughs). So I didn’t do it, I wasn’t even thinking about singing at that point.
But I did want to electrify, because I loved those albums Filles de Kilimanjaro, with that electric keyboard. I loved Tony Williams’ Lifetime, Weather Report, and Bitches Brew as well. That whole vibration, to me, is very cool, so I’ve wanted to add it for quite awhile.
Prior to this album I did Another Lifetime as a “Thank You” to Tony, and it had Mike Stern on guitar along with organ by Doug Carn, and I have done some other things here and with electric instruments, which I’ve loved.
Playing with Lenny reinforced my level of guitar . He had two incredibly funky guitar players in that band, Lenny himself and Craig Ross. That was like a guitar festival dream! I loved it.
Then, when I started working with Carlos, it’s like being part of the lineage of the history of the guitar. I’ve played with David Fiuczynski , who’s an incredible guitar player, and Vernon Reid on a bunch of stuff. So the guitar is not only something that I love, but identify with.
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“the president of the record company said “No, No No. You’ll lose your fans”. And I said, “Yeah, all 500 of them?” “
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YOU ALSO WORKED WITH LARRY CORYELL
The last time I worked with Larry, shortly before he passed, he said something to me that I’ll never forget. It was a compliment that stuck in my head; he said, “Cindy, you are the perfect drummer for a guitar player”. So I guess my love of guitar came through to him.
I’m a huge Hendrix fan, but then I also love Miles and Wynton, Shorter, Coltrane and Bird.
At different points of what I’m doing, I want to express all of those things.
YOU ALSO SANG ON YOUR ANOTHER LIFETIME ALBUM.
Yes, I sang because Tony also sang on some of those tracks.
We toured a lot with that album and I sang a lot on that tour.
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“working with Carlos (is) like being part of the lineage of the history of the guitar”
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YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU’RE MARRIED TO ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS GUITARISTS. WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES OF THAT AS A DRUMMER/WIFE?
(laughs hard) Working with Carlos, it’s like being part of the lineage of the history of the guitar..
Another advantage is that he is a great musician, and he loves music, and he’s always listening to it and studying it. He’s got an incredible Rolodex, so there’s a lot for us to talk about, as I’ve listened to a lot of music as well. We always have things to discover together and talk about in terms of music; that’s a beautiful thing in our relationship.
I’m always listening. Even if I don’t have music playing in front of me, my internal brain is hearing sounds, hearing things and hearing music and hearing rhythm. So this thing is always going; it’s part of my makeup, it’s my dna; it’s who I am. I always have it going, and I like that about him, because it’s part of his dna and makeup as well.
Disadvantages of having a husband like Carlos being a great guitar player are…NONE! (laughs heartily)
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“Even if I don’t have music playing in front of me, my internal brain is hearing sounds, hearing things and hearing music and hearing rhythm. So this thing is always going; it’s part of my makeup, it’s my dna; it’s who I am. I always have it going, and I like that about him, because it’s part of his dna and makeup as well”
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BONUS FLOWERS FOR YOU THIS WEEK!
I better get a nice bouquet after this interview!
WHAT DO YOU LISTEN FOR WHEN YOU WATCH A DRUMMER?
I listen for the attention that the person pays to the music and the musician he or she is playing with. I listen for the intention to which they play. Like is someone is just scuffling around here and there, that’s not interesting to me.
I listen for the intent. I listen for what they are doing on their drum kit as related to everybody that they are playing with. I listen for some sort of music in the feel; it’s got to catch you to feel good.
There’s also got to be some sort of invention. Now, everyone’s not going to be an innovator; that’s fine. But, how do you approach the groove that you’re playing?
Let’s say that you’re playing in a band that only wants you to play a beat. Do you internalize that? Are you just playing like you’re reading it? Or are you playing it with your whole heart? Are you playing like your life depends upon it? That’s what I do.
If I’m playing with a band and it’s a group situation and I’m just playing a groove, guess what? I’m not going to get mad at that. I’m going to play the heck out of that groove to the best of my ability for as long as it takes.
I remember one time in Lenny’s band, it was when he filmed Live On Planet Earth, and part of this groove we’re talking about made it to that recording. He was walking in with cameras and the guys were filming him and recorded it.
I was playing this drum groove, Jack was playing this particular bass line that he loved and Craig was playing this incredible guitar thing; George was playing his keyboard stuff. We’d been playing this thing for about an hour for a sound check in Australia! (laughs)
Lenny comes in and loves what we’re doing, joined us and we played it for another hour! We did this one thing for almost two hours. You can catch a little bit of it on the film, so what’s your intention? How are you translating that with your vibratory frequency?
Even if you don’t have one chop, I just want to hear how you give your heart into whatever you are playing. Everything else is like the cherry on top.
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“Are you just playing like you’re reading it? Or are you playing it with your whole heart? Are you playing like your life depends upon it? That’s what I do”
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YOU’VE BEEN WITH SOME BIG NAMES LIKE PHAROAH SANDERS, JOE HENDERSON, TED CURSON, JACKIE MCLEAN. WAS THERE A GIG THAT WAS A BAPTISM BY FIRE? WAS THERE A SESSION OR GIG THAT REALLY MADE YOU DIG DEEP TO FIND OUT WHO YOU WERE?
Yes. The first time I recorded with Ron Carter it was like that, because he was so incredible that it can be intimidating.
My first gig with Sam Rivers was interesting because we didn’t even rehearse. We just hit it. I just had to figure it out.
My very first gig with Buster Williams was also like that; we didn’t rehearse at all. I just showed up to the gig, and five minutes later we were on the bandstand and he was counting off this tune in 5, and I’m asking “What is the tune?” I can play it in 5, but I don’t know the tune! (laughs)
He just says, “You got it; you’re gonna hear it.“ So we just hit the whole gig like that! It was risky, but good. Great stuff happened.
Playing with Pharoah was a trial by fire because there’s so much energy happening with him. You’ve got to propel a cat like that; you’ve got to push him because he’s pushing the music. You have to push him in a way compliments what he’s doing to the music but also allowing the music to speak.
I had to do that with Don Pullen as well. I was with him for three years, and it was a great lesson for me in terms of finding the fine line of really pushing the music rhythmically in every way, pushing the music in every way including volume and intensity, and yet stay under the piano. And he’s a strong piano player with a huge sound , so you had to figure out how to do those things that keep that intensity, but under the piano.
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“no matter who I’m playing for, it’s my music. You may have written it, it may even be your party, but I own it right now!”
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TELL ME WHAT BOOKS YOU”VE READ THAT EVERYONE SHOULD READ
Miles Davis’ autobiography. A book called “The Book Of Knowledge” (Ed note-by Hurtak)
WHO WOULD YOU PLAY $1000 TO SEE PERFORM, LIVING OR DEAD?
(laughs) I would pay any amount of money to see Bird play, to see Miles play, Tony Williams play and John Coltrane.
WHAT’S THE BEST MUSICAL ADVICE EITHER FAMILY OR A MUSICAL BOSS GAVE YOU?
Jackie McLean said “Whenever you play with my band, play with my band as though it’s your band” which meant to me that no matter what I’m doing to own it. That’s part of where I got the concept of what I said before. That’s what I do; no matter who I’m playing for, it’s my music. You may have written it, it may even be your party, but I own it right now!
WHAT GIVES YOU THE MOST JOY?
A lot of things give me great joy. Playing on the bandstand gives me incredible joy because it’s like praying. It’s channeling a universal energy from the Main Source.
Seeing my nephew smile. Hugging my mom and my siblings . Spending time with my husband. Being with nature gives me incredible joy.
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“Playing on the bandstand gives me incredible joy because it’s like praying”
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ANY FUTURE GOALS?
More records, more recording, more touring and bringing new elements into the music. Whether it be different musicians or genres and styles. Learning more about harmony, learning more about rhythm, learning more about melody so I can make my music more vast and colorful
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“Even if you don’t have one chop, I just want to hear how you give your heart into whatever you are playing. Everything else is like the cherry on top”
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IF YOU LOOK AT MOST MUSICIANS’ CAREERS, THERE TENDS TO BE A PEAK IN THEIR MID TWENTIES, AND THEN EITHER A GRADUAL CREATIVE DECLINE OR A CONTINUATION OF WHAT THEY’VE PERFECTED. RARE IS THE PERSON, SUCH AS A MILES DAVIS OR JOHN COLTRANE, WHO KEEPS PURSUING NEW MUSICAL WORLDS.
CINDY BLACKMAN SANTANA IS ANOTHER MUSICAL MAGELLAN, SEARCHING FOR AND DISCOVERING NEW LANDS FOR HER DRUMS TO CONQUER. AND WITH HER LATEST INSTRUMENT, HER VOICE, SHE IS ABLE TO CONTINUE HER JOURNEY WITH EVEN MORE NAVIGATIONAL EQUIPMENT.
FOLLOW HER VOYAGE!