News and discussions relating to George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" novels, his Westeros-based short stories, "Game of Thrones" and "House of the Dragon" TV series, and all things ASOIAF - but with particular emphasis on the written series.
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Areo Hotah is going to be the only Dornish POV for the foreseeable future in A Song of Ice and Fire, meaning that he will likely hit at least 3 chapters in the upcoming book, but if he is going to get any more POV chapters, there needs to be some personal growth built in.
George R.R. Martin has said (quoting William Faulkner), “the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself.“ yet to this point Hotah could be summed up in just a few quick words. A simple, honorable man, who lives to protect his prince and princess. As much as he has been important in viewing the plots of Doran Martell, Hotah has not yet had any story of his own. He is travelling west with Obara and Ser Balon, and there will be some opportunities for character growth and confliction, but I think that the set up is there for Hotah’s heart to be in a different kind of conflict.
In The Captain of Guards in A Feast For Crows, when Doran commands Areo to take the Sand Snakes into custody, his inner monologue goes like this
“His heart was troubled. My Little Princess will mislike this.”
But despite his confliction (basically the only doubt we ever see from him) he still does as Doran commands. Once again on the Greenblood, Hotah does as Doran commands and acts against Arianne. But in both cases, Arianne was not negatively affected in the grand scheme of things. By arresting the sand snakes, Arianne may have felt forced into the Queenmaker plot, but she was not arrested or harmed herself. And on the Greenblood, she was never in any danger from Hotah, and if she had crowned Myrcella, as Tyrion and Illyrio discuss later in the series, “to queen Myrcella is to kill her” which would in theory also put Arianne in danger, given that she would be the one sparking open rebellion, thereby allowing Hotah to construe this as protection.
I think in the next book, or maybe even Dream, Areo Hotah will be forced to make an impactful choice between Arianne and Doran. His Prince or his little princess. This would likely come after Arianne marries Aegon, which seems likely given both of their histories as well as the subject and Trajectory of Arianne's two sample chapters. I don’t think he will be asked to kill either one, or anything so drastic, but I think a big decision will come Hotah’s way, forcing him to choose a side between the only two people he really seems to care about all that much. (asides from probably Mellario, but I would be shocked if we ever actually see her on page)
To justify his being a POV I think he needs to have some greater impact upon the total story, not just through what he sees others do, but through what he does himself so does anyone have any thoughts on how Hotah's character could grow or be conflicted within the role he will play in Winds?
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Almost certainly to "film" Doran's death, right?
That seems almost certain at this point, by disease if nothing else, but I am thinking (hoping) that there will be a little more to his story than that. It could even be something about Obara, maybe having to choose whether he wants to let her kill Balon, who is a lot like him and he seems to at least pity or if he is put in a position where he may need to kill Obara, both of which could put him in opposition to orders from Doran that we haven't seen yet.
I am too, and I hope my comment didn't sound glibly shitty! But I do think his death will set off some pretty important repercussions for the Dorish contingent. All the rules are off. That's going to be a really interesting moment.
I'm also intrigued to see what will happen with Balon. Areo definitely seemed sad, if resigned to have needed to kill Arys, even if he knew it was coming.
You are probably right about Doran's death being really impactful on Dorne moving forward and it sadly will almost certainly be something we will see. I have very low hopes for Balon. I like him, especially when compared to the rest of the king's guard we see in the series, but he is not cut out for the mission Cersei gave him.
Areo seemed to size him up, which could foreshadow a fight, as it does with Arys but he does the same with most characters, including Obara (who he will probably fight, at least verbally) and if I am not mistaken (which I definitely might be) even Doran's Maester, who he will not end up fighting. So who knows what all that means, but I am also very intrigued for what will be happening in the Dornish plot come Winds.
Poor Balon. I like him too - I like when Jaime is dressing down the Kingsguard after Joffrey's death, and Balon is the only one who has the grace to look ashamed. He's also the closest thing to a sympathetic/truthful witness in Tyrion's trial. I agree with you that I don't think he's long for the plot. He really doesn't know what he was walking into with the whole Dornish situation - part of which has been made worse by his own sworn brother's actions.
I think that Areo's role will be to observe what happens to the sword Dawn and get it to the right place by the end of Winds.
As of ADWD, Areo and Obara have been sent to track down Darkstar at High Hermitage. Darkstar has obviously expressed jealousy towards Arthur Dayne before, and he greatly values the family sword Dawn. I therefore think Darkstar will go to Starfall (which is not far from High Hermitage) and get hold of Dawn. Areo will follow, and therefore might be the POV we get some revelations about Ashara Dayne and Ned.
GRRM has said that Dawn is his favourite sword and implied that it is very important, and it seems Darkstar may be the vehicle through which Dawn gets to whoever needs it in the upcoming War for the Dawn. Areo would be the eyes through which we see that.
As for personal conflict, I am not hot enough on the Dorne arc to work out whether Areo would support Doran or Arianne, but it is definitely an interesting thing to explore!
I like the take on Dawn. I think it will factor in to and Hotah is in the best position of any character to bring it into the story.
Hopefully we get to see Edric again and get some backstory on the Dayne's. I could see Darkstar trying to steal Dawn, but one theory I have seen and really liked was that Dawn would turn out to be Lightbringer, which would probably require the sword to get to Sam before he likely goes North after Oldtown is sacked. At least if the sword is going to Jon, if it goes to Aegon (I personally doubt it a lot) or someone else then Darkstar could be the perfect way to position one of the most powerful weapons in the world in the right storytelling hands for the last book.
I bet you are right that he sees a lot about the Dayne's though, which will be pretty cool and is pretty well deserved I think after reading a whole 5 books and having some pretty key information hidden from us about them.
Yes, I think it will have to get to Jon too. How this fits into R+L=J and Ashara's secrets, I don't know, but I imagine that is where it is ending up.
I hadn't thought about Sam, but now you've said it, that might makes sense. The ownership of Dawn could then feasibly go Darkstar => Areo/Obara => Alleras/Sarella => Sam, with the Sand Snakes trusting each other enough to facilitate the transfer.
On the topic of Edric, I think he may have originally been the one who was intended to convey Dawn to Jon before the Five Year Gap was erased, but, considering Edric is still quite young without the Five Year Gap, GRRM invented Darkstar to fill that role. This is all speculation on my part, but GRRM has emphasised how Dawn is probably the most special and unique of all the swords in the series, so it has to end up being used in the War for the Dawn eventually.
The trail as it is passed along makes sense, and I agree Darstar was probably the product of Edric not being aged up by the gap.
What you said makes sense in that Sarella being with Sam could be a way to logically connect the Hotah and Obara party to Sam if he is involved with transporting Dawn.
If that's true, I think I'm about to get a LOT more interested in his POV chapters! (No shade on the existing Dornish plot, but I want those House Dayne secrets!)
I need House Dayne secrets too! They are the one piece of the puzzle I can't seem to even come up with a half decent theory for!
I think people overestimate the importance of Areo, he's basically just there so that there can be Doran chapters without revealing Dorans plan. Which I think is fine, we have a bunch of human conflict in Doran, and Areo's chapters are some of my very favorites. He definitely could become a character, but I don't think it's necessary.
In a series of so many characters, we have had the POV of 22 characters and a few single chapters, (Mel is going to have more, so you can count 23 recurring). For Areo Hotah to be one of those 23 is a big deal. I agree that his original inclusion was probably only as a way to meet Doran, see Dorne from a non Dornishman and witness some plotting, but I think to make all of the time we spend watching him watch stuff worth it there should be a bit more to him. Either way, I agree his chapters are really good even if they don't have development for him, and he will probably at the very least give us a really cool fight and some info on the Dayne's (potentially Dawn gets involved), but I am hoping there will be more than that.
Huh, I thought I there were 24 PoV Characters (Not including prologues and epilogues)
1.Bran 2.Ned 3. Catelyn 4.Jon 5.Tyrion 6.Sansa 7.Arya 8.Daenerys 9.Davos 10.Theon 11.Jaime 12.Sam 13.Cersei 14.Brienne 15.Arys 16.Aerion 17.Asha 18.Victarion 19.Areo 20.Arianne 21.Barristan 22. JonCon 23.Quentyn 24.Melisandre
Sorry, I didn't mean to be nitpicky. I just wanted to reassure myself I got the count right. I keep forgetting Arys Oakheart (I still don't know what the point of his PoV was. He had two chapters and didn't have access to any information that was unique to his PoV...) But if we take Arys Oakheart as an example then we probably shouldn't expect too much from Areo. I think most POV characters brought into the story after the aborted 5 year gap are secondary characters who mostly exist to fill a few holes in the narrative outline. And then they'll die.(Sorry Brienne)
Its fine, I have gotten in the habit of think of Arys as a prologue / epilogue character, just in the middle of the book instead of the start or end.
I'm not the biggest Dayne fanboy, but I'm willing the have my opinion changed. My question is if he's off doing stuff, and Arianne is with faegon, who's going to be with Doran?
Areoh Hotah was part of the super AFFC prologue, which included the ironborn and Dorne plots, and was supposed to be the prologue for pre-split ADWD. The POV characters in that prologue weren’t supposed to come back after that. When George realized that it was getting too long, he scrapped the idea but kept the material and separated it in chapters. Hence why they have names like « The Captain of the Guards » or « The Iron Captain ». However, we can see that at the end of ADWD and the beginning of TWOW, Victarion and Arianne’s names appear as the title of their chapters. They’ve become full POVs, as opposed to the prologue-like POVs like Pate or, originally, Aeron or Asha. Perhaps we can expect Areoh to be in a similar situation come ADOS?
Why is he the only Dornish POV? I seem to think Arianne has two already in TWOW
Yeah, Arianne will have at least three in Winds (two samples, 1 George said he was planning to work on). But in her first chapter she sails to the Stormlands to meet with Aegon and JonCon making Areo the only POV we have in Dorne for what I expect to be the entire book, as I don't see Arianne having two whole chapters of her journey to Aegon only to leave after one or two more. Basically he will be the only one in Dorne for the majority of the book.
I'd still call her a Dornish POV even outside Dorne but I get your point.
Fair enough, she could even be back towards the end of the book, plus she is Dornish.
Nah I'm pretty sure seeing what others do is enough, Aeron isn't exactly a mover and shaker, besides inadvertently legitimizing a kingship Euron had already claimed he basically exists to give us a window into Euron's messed up world.
Areo already has affected the plot significantly enough by ruining Arianne's plan. If there is a big emotional conflict involving Areo it will be his prince being assassinated while he's on his wild goose chase after Darkstar, and whether he then chooses to pursue Obara's plan for vengeance by attacking Oldtown.
Of course if he does he'll get there right as a certain someone else attacks Oldtown and the Dornish army will get caught in the blast radius of Euron's Big Blood-magic Boom.
This is really possible, he might just never get any development, and it wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but I hope we get to see some.
As for Oldtown I could definitely see Hotah ending up in Oldtown, although I have trouble seeing him taking part in Obara's dumb ass revenge plan. It could provide a chance to connect him with the main narrative a bit more via Euron and Sam.
If Dawn - which could be a part of Hotah's plot - is going to be of use anywhere in the story, I think it will be at the wall against the others, so an intersection with Sam makes a lot of sense if they want to get Dawn to the North for the final book.
Areo will go to High Hermitage where he can reveal us information without his knowledge: if Gerold Dayne is the one who betrayed Arianne's plot to her father, what Doran plans, information about Starfall, Dawn, Ashara Dayne.
I think Areo is going to eventually abandon Doran and side with Daenerys when he learns of her strong anti-slavery agenda which'll resonate well with him.
I'm not entirely sure how but I think Doran's wife will return in the future and make her presence know in the series, she was apparently a slaver herself and I think Areo likely resented her a great deal.
So I think Areo's inner conflict will be choosing between his two identities; that of a Dornishman vs a former slave and if he has to choose between what he cares more about fighting for between Doran or slaves like the Wildling women in Braavos or Daenerys, he'll choose what he believes in.
Either that or Darkstar's gonna kill him early on in TWOW.
This is a cool idea. I think it is safe to say he will survive that meeting, but the slavery angle makes a lot of sense as part of his arc.
My guess is his loyalty to Doran leads him to get killed by his little princess, and that as a result he should have been loyal to neither and instead seek someone like Daenerys who has a "cause" that mattered to him. He is a former slave, who in a way remained a slave.
I think he is mainly a functional character. He is basically the only Dornish character that is close enough to the main players without being in on the schemes. Ariannes Pov's stop after she has the talk with doran. And I think that we will probably get another Arianne chapter when the Dorans plan fails or comes to fuition. I dont think that he will have to choose between Doran and his daughter, because i think they are on the same page now. And his other function is basically a world-building devise for the summer isles. I honestly think thats probably it.
Eye inside Dorne, it's though him we get to see the Martell and Sand Snakes. He also has his own unique backstory being a former slave in Norvos. He isn't as complex as Tyrion or Arya but he does have his own little charm in his way.
I can see him around solely to witness the destruction of the Dornishmen specifically House Martell. I don't want to get to deep into theories because the others can take all the theories out there. But I personally do not see House Martell surviving ASOIAF Hotah will probably only be around to witness the collapse of House Martell and then he himself will probably die. I don't dislike Areo Hotah but I must admit of all the POV characters he is the most bland.
He is the worst POV ever. Even the one and only POV chapter of Arys Oakheart is more forgivable than Areo POV.
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just grow to find the meme of calling him "the camera that rides" hilarious and while it won't make him a more interesting character it'll at least make it easy to find him ironically silly somehow
To be the eyes for us all to see the downfall of the Martells
I wish his role had been given to Obara. She could have easily been written as an unwilling bodyguard for Doran being kept in check. Struggling with her thirst for revenge and family duty to uphold.
He's going to bring his hand down on Doran, for his little princess, for Dorne.
Yea I think it’s going to be interesting to see if we’ll get another Dorne POV that’s around Doran, or if we’ll be hearing things from a distance on that end.