Flying out of Ben Gurion as a foreigner who has spent time in the West Bank can be an interesting experience. Here's what happened the last time I did it.
As a young male traveling alone you are pretty certain to be picked out by security both when arriving and departing the airport (last time I arrived, I spent a good 5 hours with various interrogation before I could enter). Sure enough, other people with my nationality, families, people wearing kippas etc. walk straight through security. I'm being stopped and questioned by an otherwise polite security employee:
He asks me what I have been doing in Israel, where I've traveled to in the country (I say Jericho, Ramallah, Hebron, Nablus, Betlehem, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Acco, Tiberias, Golan, Eilat etc.), who I have lived with, what the addresses was, what my room mates' names are, what their nationalities are, what my father's name is, my mother's, my grandparent's names, what institution I study at in my home country, where I live in my home country, if I have any other ID with a better picture and a lot of other completely useless crap, where my answer's are totally irrelevant since he doesn't understand half of my replies containing places and names.
Then he asks me to stay where I am and walks off. Another guy comes up and ask pretty much the same questions. I give the same answers. He asks why I have a visa stamped in Ramallah issued by COGAT in my passport. I explain I worked in Ramallah and lived in East Jerusalem. This seems impossible to him for some reason. So you drove back and forth every day? Yes. You slept in Jerusalem every night? Yes. What time did you leave in the morning? 7.30. What time did you come back? Depended on my work schedule. He calls over a supervisor, who ask me the same questions again. As with the interior ministry who said flat out: "you are using this as an excuse to stay inside the West Bank and your Jerusalem address is probably fake isn't it?" - I could see they were thinking the same thing. At some point though they grew tired of me I guess and let me through. This is after 45 minutes or so. I'm the only person left in line since everyone else walked through long ago.
Then for luggage check. Who packed this bag sir? I did. Where did you pack it? In my house. Where? In Jerusalem. Not in the West Bank? No. Sir, the reason I ask you this, is that someone could have placed a bomb in your suitcases. I smile at him and say "okay". They run it through the x-ray machine and ask me to go to this other station.
Then they take apart everything. They go through dirty laundry, books, electronics, take my battery out of my laptop and ship it in a seperate box so I won't be able to use my computer for the next 4 days. A gift, some chocolates, are being opened and examined, destroying the packaging. They run these sampling cloth things through everything and then have a machine analyze them for drugs/bombs/whatever. Everything is then left in a big pile and I'm told I can pack it up. Gee thanks.
Then two guys come over and ask me to follow them. Also very polite I should add. We enter a room where I have to stand inside a booth with a curtain with one of the guys while the other one is standing guard I assume. He asks me to take off my jacket, shoes, belt and empty my pockets. He then frisks me with his hands while I stand with my arms out to the sides. Then he runs a hand held detector over my entire body. The button on my jeans make a sound. What a surprise! It's made of metal after all. He puts his fingers inside my beltline and runs his fingers round a couple of times. Detector again, still makes a sound. Strange huh? He says he needs me to drop my pants to my knees. I do that. More detector, actually touching my dick with it on the outside of my boxers. STILL makes a sound. Maybe I have a dick made of metal, who knows right? He talks to the other guy, who leaves and comes back with a supervisor. The supervisor says that because the detector is making a sound, he's going to ask me to drop my underwear to my knees. I do that and I can tell none of the guys are really that interested in looking at my junk. He quickly says "thank you sir" and I put on my clothes again.
Now back to my luggage. It takes me 5-10 minutes to pack everything again. My suitcases are of course plastered with stickers with the number "6" aka scum of the earth.
Now I'm being escorted to get my boarding pass. Then escorted to another passport check, then to another terminal and all the way to my gate.
The whole thing lasted a bit more than 2 hours. Most of the security people were actually pretty nice and some even seemed a little embarrassed of what was going on. It does not change the fact though, that everyone else, including my colleagues who is doing the exact same work as me, only they stay in Tel Aviv and not the West Bank, walked through in 15 minutes without any of the checking I mentioned apart from maybe the x-ray machine.
I just wonder what the incentives are for this kind of treatment. I assume that because of my passport stamps from inside the West Bank, Israel treats me as a part of the conflict (where I'm obviously on the "wrong" side). Maybe some of you have experiences of your own or know something I don't? I'm not the kind of person who feels degraded or have my personal space violated by these things, but I can see why other people would. To me it just seems pointless and frankly feels more like a matter of harassment than security.
And I don't even have an Arabic name, mind you.
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The Israeli security apparatus would rather have a high false positive rate and a zero false negative rate than risk even one false negative. So anything suspicious - such as, for example, working regularly in the West Bank - leads to a Spanish inquisition.
Totally agree, better safe than sorry.
I had it happen to me once because I used to travel a lot for work, I'm Ashkenazi Israeli with an American passport (mine lasted 2 hours without taking my underwear off).
An airport is one if the most sensitive places in the country and they cannot risk anything.
One of the most sensitive places in the world, I'd say. Not just the country.
If he thinks this is bad, I've heard the domestic flights to Eilat are ruthless. I always take the bus or rent a car.
Flying out of Eilat wasn't bad.
Maybe it's too hot there for them to be too crazy but my boss who is half black half white got the full treatment and interrogation flying to there. The reason I mention her race is it became one of their primary focuses.
The incentive is making sure terrorists don't use you as a mule to get explosives or chemicals past security. You were obviously targeted because your activities fit a well-developed profile of someone who might've been used in that way. Which BTW - has nothing to do with whether or not you have an Arabic name. In fact, not having an Arabic name might've made using you as a mule more appealing to the terrorists. Sound ridiculous? Read up on the Hindawi Affair.
I believe it does suck, but it's crucial nonetheless.
Incentives? Putting aside "everyday" terrorist threats. About 100 suicide bombers had infiltrated Israel from the West Bank in the past decade killing more than 350 civilians and injuring thousands, a number which only stopped increasing after the barrier was built. Obviously, there are always new attempts to infiltrate Israel - you ought to be checked for not being as such.
I know the security is ridiculous in Israel but it has kept Israel safe from many, many possible terror attacks in the past couple decades. It's very aggressive but it works in keeping civilians safe. At least you didn't have to go through a fully body scan and fully body pat like they do in America.
You stayed in israel. you worked in the west bank. You know the situation in the area. Are you so surprised that someone who daily went to the west bank is more thoroughly searched than someone who didn't?
The airport security people have to deal with reality. This shouldn't have surprised you.
Yes I am a little surprised if that's the reason. I'm also surprised that you believe simply being in the West Bank makes you more likely to carry a bomb or have general bad intentions towards other people.
Paying attention to who the specific person going through security makes sense when we are talking about a young child or a very old woman. It seems reasonable not to strip search them. In a similar way, where a person has been during their visit to Israel can affect the way security responds.
Not more likely to carry a bomb, but definitely more likely to be given one.
Sounds about right - good job, Israeli security!
Of course you feel violated, upset, and annoyed - but the one experience you had seems to keep things from getting shitty for a whole lot of other people, like it is in the US, for example. I hope it doesn't stop you from working in Ramallah and whatnot in the future - it's important to keep it up.
Funny you bring up the US.
Here's the TSA patting down a 6 year old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3sH1GaO_nw
This is not a country I would want to live in. You can fuck so severely with people's minds and rights in the great name of security. If we've come to the point where small children are being subjected to this stuff, then I think it's time to stop and ask some self-critical questions.
As I said, I didn't feel any of those things. Well maybe a little annoyed. But rather, I'm curious about what's going on and what the underlying incentives are for these kinds of things. Remember, everyone else practically walked right through the whole thing. This makes me question if it's really about security or if something else is at stake.
Basically, whether one agrees with Israel's policies or actions with regard to its neighbors, one cannot argue that Israel's security situation is not a special one which requires great care.
The first time I came here (I live in Israel), I was with a big giant group of young Jewish American tourists, and I got held up for an hour and a half at LAX because I had slept there the whole night on my bag, and they thought that was odd. I also probably acted a bit hyper as always, and probably a little impatient, while making little eye contact. All of these are triggers for extra security checks.
Your having been through the territories numerous times made you subject to some extra questions. Women traveling alone have it worse because Israeli security sees them as more prone to the influences of others, and that people wishing to make trouble on a plane might try to pass things along with the most innocent-looking travelers.
But then, I realize that Israeli security has some secret methods of defining who to nag, and that I don't know everything. What I do know is that Ben Gurion is the most comfortable airport I've ever passed through in the world, and that Israelis are always laughing at Americans for having the stupid and useless TSA.
It's about security. They're asking you all these questions not because they actually care about your answers, but they are trained to read responses in order to detect potential attackers.
I'll tell you, just so that you know, that even my family, white Kippah-wearing Jews (well at least the men :P) have also been hassled about our luggage when we stupidly mentioned that someone gave us a gift to bring to the states.
I am sorry you had to go through that inconvenience. Yet as stated by others Israeli security is much higher then other countries. At least they do it with some thought. You went through extra questions for reasons even you understand. Where as the TSA are run by a bunch of idiots who think a 90 y/o grandma or a 6 y/o kid might be carrying some belt strapped knife or small item. The stupid TSA will not allow you to have WATER for no other reason then to keep 3 times the amount of security personnel employed. It's complete waste of tax payer money and not improving anyone's safety in any considerable way... TSA doesn't make me feel safer, only violated and annoyed. Israeli security on the other hand makes me feel like I'm entering an Orwellian country, but at least kids and seniors are spared.
He obviously used a stud finder… :)
They are the (self-)chosen people. They invented a god who conveniently gave them the whole world for them to fuck around with. We are their bitch! And they sure act the part! You probably don’t have a mutilated penis (as prescribed by their goddammed fucking stupid, retarded bullshit religion) so you are automatically labelled as an ennemy who wants to exterminate them all (from the earliest age, they are taught to hate anybody who is not of the [self-]chosen people because those are “inferiors”)
One would have thought that the shoah would have taught them that when you act like a bunch of fucking assholes, people take umbrage of that, but no, they only learned to become even more assholish.
Their incentive? Probably to make you regret ever stepping foot into the West Bank and to make you think twice before doing it again.
I had spent quite a bit of time in the West Bank when I was in Israel, and actually ended up leaving through the Palestinian / Arab section of the border. Non Arabs are specifically not allowed through this particular border, but I didn't have enough shekels to get to the proper border so off I go.
This crossing is dustier, more militarized and just generally more uncomfortable that the 'proper' crossing I had entered on. I get to the window and the young woman flat out tells me to leave. "This crossing is for the Palestinians, and you, luckily, are not." Thankfully my month is Israel had taught me that if there's one thing that young Israeli women love to do, regardless of whether they're carrying an M16 or not, is to flirt.
So flirt I did. At first she wasn't having any of it but pretty quickly her hard, bureaucratic demeanour broke and the other occupants of the small office starting making fun of her. "They'll give you hell at the next crossing," she said as she stamped my immigration card. At the next crossing I was lucky to have another gorgeous young woman stamping my passport and it was a rinse and repeat endeavour. She actually drew little flowers on my immigration card.
So my experience was quite different to yours as far as immigration goes. I was taken into custody a couple times in Israel and a lot more time in other places of the Middle East, and I there really is nothing more unnerving than having your freedom taken away.
Good job from Israeli security.
In a parallel universe where Arabs terrorists would not have tried numerous times to either hijack, or bomb or bring down an airplane with SAMs or use them against innocent people by crashing airplanes into buildings things would be different.
Go thank Abu Amaar who was the first to start this trend! Did you go to Ramallah and lay flowers at his grave?
A lot of the security measures you've mentioned I've seen done to my father's Russian/American wife and my husband, such as the multiple questions and unpacking everything in your luggage.
I do believe that you were targeted for extra scrutiny because of where you had stayed. It's an unfortunate truth, much like the checkpoints I have to drive through every week whenever I want to leave Jerusalem.
I wonder, did security at the entrance to Ben Gurion give you trouble when they asked you where you were traveling from? I never understood what they were looking for with the answers, besides for looking out for suspicious behavior.
Nothing, they are looking for suspicious behavior.
What you experienced was class A Israeli security. They use questioning and analyzing before any physical searches which actually is much more effective. They see how you react to certain questions. Here is a video regarding the method.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBt7_pgJ92w
That's all very good and I'd prefer this over the TSA any day. But that is not what my post is about. People are getting different treatments. I'm curious as to why that is.
Well you stayed in the West Bank, specifically in Ramallah which is essentially the headquarters of the PA. Going there puts you in a more vulnerable position for someone who lets say may have certain ideas to put the airport at risk via yourself. You have to see where they are coming from. If you only visited Tel Aviv it would be different. If you remember, they ask you about where you left your bags, if you packed them etc. Coming from the West Bank, which is a little more dangerous than say Tel Aviv or Acco, justifies their procedure. It is not personal.
so what you're saying is security did a good job
I am Israeli born and American for 30 years, I have been through four hour sessions. Of course no Israeli plane has ever been hijacked so I recon I feel pretty safe. The thing is, Israel prides itself in actually getting to know people instead of just throwing radiation at them over and over. When I was a kid, you went into a curtained room with a big mean nurse ratchet type lady who made you strip. Compared to that this is cakewalk.
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That sounds horrible, but I'm sure an Arab person could tell you something even more fucked up. There are always worse stories. That doesn't make the less fucked up ones right.
"where my answer's are totally irrelevant " exactly. it's more of a psych test. the first wave of security at the airport is actually just a guard saying shalom to the driver on the way to the airport proper. just that is a psych test
So you received the same treatment as everyone else. Not really that special. The part about your metal penis was a new one though. I've never had that happen.
You have to understand Israel has security concerns and also archaeological concerns as well. Many people are trying to smuggle out 2000 year old oil lamps and pipes and all this crazy shit. I'm sure they've found more than a few priceless artifacts at the airport. But yeah, if your dick is beeping then you got some big problems lol
There's nothing you can do about it. You can be angry (which I used to do) or you can just shrug it off. In the end as long as you make your flight and weren't sexually assaulted I say you're lucky. It's easy for us to say on this end but there's not much else you can do except not go there or flying in not take El Al or Arkia.
[edit] Thought of some more tips for you (besides avoiding Israeli airllines companies).
Arrive early
Wear clean underwear
Try dissociation (the altered state of consciousness characterized by partial or complete disruption of the normal integration of a person's normal conscious typically experienced by rape victims)
Get your story straight. They often repeat the same questions to you with different people and answering the same question differently can land you in hotter water. Lying about some things is also helpful.
Do not throw out aggressive body language. This one I learned a bit late but it's the most important of them all. Smile and keep a relaxed posture.
Did you not read the text? I was the only one in line getting the full tour. Colleagues doing my exact job didn't. Only difference: they stay in TLV.
I didn't get angry. I'm curious as to the real reasons why certain people are being profiled and certain aren't.
About your tips:
That will just give them more time to hold you and go through more checks. In the end, they don't want you to miss your flight.
How is that going to make a difference? So the security guy think I smell nice and will give me a pass?
My "story" is straight because I tell the truth. Why would I lie in an airport about anything? Body language: I was perfectly calm and made eye contact with everyone I talked to.
Aside from that, all the responses I got here seem to avoid the crucial points. Why am I the only guy whose laptop battery must travel in a safe box, arriving 4 days after myself? What security concerns is involved here I wonder? If they believe someone rigged my suitcase with a bomb, does the dropping of underwear then mean that someone rigged my boxers with a bomb as well?
I'm all for security. But I don't believe this is 100% about security. I believe it is about my passport stamps and the Israeli government's way of telling me that it does not think visiting the West Bank, maybe even working with something that could gasp be critical of the state.
As someone who, at last count, has 26 Israeli exit and entry stamps on his current passport I'm not sure what your one experience can do to trump my own. But I welcome your attempts. You can never have enough information.
I had this happen to me when I left recently. It always does. And I was living in Tel Aviv. You're reading too much into it. Sometimes it's random but sometimes it is profiling.. like you said, male traveling alone.
Me too but there's not much you can do about it. I met a redditor at an an r/Israel meetup this summer who I thought was pretty close friends to me but then she said she worked at the airport once and I became paranoid and convinced she had interrogated me before. I almost started crying. It does things to your emotions.
In the end she wouldn't give me any information about her past job. Wouldn't even say what it was. That's how secretive they are about things.
lol probably true. I've often suspected this. At least the time goes by fast. I get a bit pissy when all my stuff is rearranged, my laptop/xbox is bubble wrapped and checked on a seperate flight or alone in the belly, I'm without a certain item they put in checked bag "for me," and I can't visit duty free. That's why I no longer fly Arkia.
You never know.
Sometimes it's far easier to lie than to have to explain something they find "interesting' and significant. "Where you in the West Bank?" for example. I usually say "No" no matter what. At most I'd say "Bethlehem because I'm Christian."
All this stuff has happened to me. I never worked in the West bank. How would they even know I was there? I got no stamps, gave no passports (the first few times I went that is). You're being paranoid. You remind me of my friend who went to Bethlehem with me and put his camera's mini-SD card in his mouth before we entered the checkpoint back. LOL.
It's not supposed to make sense. It's security theater. It's supposed to be a psych-out/ shell-game.
I'm not sure what explanation you are hoping to get here? The divulgence of security procedures? Not going to happen. Believe me. I've tried. I even walked into the police office thingy in the airport while I was told to sit and asked to be taken off "the list" they all said there was no list.
There's reasonable-ish explanations for why your battery was taken though. If it was an explosive device they wanted to separate you from it.
The last time I flew out of Ben-Gurion airport, it took me almost three hours to clear security, and I had no special search in a closed off area. I had to have my luggage run through the x-ray machine twice.
That number "6" on the sticker -- That indicates which person cleared the suitcase, nothing more.
Running your suitcase through x-ray twice took 3 hours?
Also, the last part is not true.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/colored-tags-for-arabs-luggage-at-ben-gurion-airport-discontinued-1.227007
1: "...it took me almost three hours to clear security, and I had no special search in a closed off area."
2: "I had to have my luggage run through the x-ray machine twice."
Almost all of that time was spent waiting in line to have my luggage inspected after the first run through the x-ray machine. There were several lines here. Others who came from the x-ray machine were placed in different lines. People who joined other lines than the one I was in -- after I was in line -- had their stuff inspected while I waited. Some people were placed in the line I was in after me. They weren't taken till I was done. I think the line you are in has something to do with an assessment by someone of how urgent checking your stuff is. After having my suitcase opened up and gone through, they took me to the front of the x-ray machine line and had me put it through again. After that, they put a sticker on my bag. I just went to check my suitcase, but the number stickers had been removed, so I can't tell you what it was. The sticker on the back of my passport had a 2 on it, and I'm not a foreign diplomat.
The questions are irrelevant, they want to see your behavior.
The say the same line to Israelis too.
I know that.
I know that.
Did you read any other comments in this thread?
No idea why you feel so violated. As a Jewish Israeli male, I get the same questions most times I travel.
You know, the justification is probably this.
Where does it say I feel violated and why do you take things out of context?
The "why me, oh, why me of all people" tone of your whine didn't leave any doubt to the fact that you felt personally targeted. Add something like "My suitcases are of course plastered with stickers with the number "6" aka scum of the earth." (btw, the sticker only tells other security people that your stuff had already been checked), and the whole "live ansigt aloooooone stage is armed". I am actually surprised you haven't made a youtube video yet.
I suppose if you really don't have anything clever to come up with (it's not like there's a lack of incidents in my post to deal with), then the rational thought popping up in your head is to somehow try and demean me and pull the "whiner" card?
Please provide citation as I don't recall having written that? As I said, I believe there are other things than security at stake. Such as political prejudice against people who travel to the West Bank.
No they don't If that was true, then why do you think all Israeli Jews get a 1, foreign diplomats 2 and people like myself 6?
Come again?
I'm surprised how much you suck at writing a comprehensible comment.
Or, Occam's Razor and all, I just read your whine.
Err...."Sure enough, other people with my nationality, families, people wearing kippas etc. walk straight through security. " - really, if you can't understand what you write yourself, then we have worse problems at hand.
You know, ansigt, I could pull the anedoctal "I know more about this stuff than you ever will", but instead, I'll just leave you with the observation that every one of the checkers has their own number. Otherwise, I'd have to go asking you if you had personally intereviewed everyone with a "1" to make sure they are Israeli Jews, everyone with a "2" to make sure they are foreign diplomats and everyone with a "6" to make sure they're whinny babies.
And yet you went over it line by line. I must be doing a really good job.
What whine? Why are you obsessed about discussing whining? Wouldn't you rather discuss the topic at hand, or maybe that's the whole point: you have nothing mildly intelligent to say and thus resort to the name calling game? A little early if you ask me - you could at least have given it a try.
As I've written, I don't believe this is personal. I believe it's about passport stamps and politics. Maybe you should try reading the post again.
That's weak. Every Israeli Jew I talked to about this say they always get a 1. I know a lot of diplomats, who funnily enough said they all got a 2. I also happen to know quite a few "civilian" foreigners, who all got a 6. It's not for the sole purpose of baggage checking unless of course you in your infinite wisdom can provide evidence that it is? Oh and what is a "whinny baby?"
That's how I read. Line by line. It does not change the fact though that I have trouble understanding stuff like this:
Based on your reddit comment history, it's apparent the security personnel did their job well. They profiled you to a tee and made sure you were not a threat by stupidity or intent.
What in my comment history do you find to be interesting in regards of boarding an airplane if I may ask?
Your comments show you are militantly anti-Israel (to phrase it mildly) and the thorough check and escort you received at the airport implies you reek of it in person.
It is their duty to ensure your anti-Israel views do not translate into a physical threat to the safety of anyone else either as a useful idiot or through deliberate intent.
Citation needed. I don't think I have ever incited to violence or any "militant" stuff. I don't even view myself as "anti-Israel". If you want to make lame accusations, then at least have something to back them up with. Otherwise they stay just that, lame accusations.
You see, that's where the chain falls off. I was being polite, making eye-contact, answering questions and generally being very calm. If we can get back on topic for just a split-second, then that was my initial problem with this: I believe that my passport revealed something that they didn't like, meaning that if you as a foreigner spend time in the West Bank, it's a political decision from the authorities to show you that this isn't encouraged.
You deserve worst treatment by the Israelis.
You are lucky that they do not know your irrational anti-Israel hate that you spread all over reddit.
Yup. Coz then they'd stuff you in a prison against all conventions of human rights, beat you senseless, tell your family the Palestinians kidnapped you and then deny all knowledge of the event when they release you 20 years later.
Yup. That's seriously what raananh believes and advocates against his fellow human. Fuck that evil troll!
I actually felt good reading this story. Better spend 2 hours on the airport than being killed next to 200 other people, you have no idea how much shit I've been able to pass through the US customs that would have gotten me arrested in Ben Gurion. We also get our bags checked every time we want to enter a mall or a train station, living in Israel has a price and the fact that there hasn't been a plane bomb in forever is living proof of that.
ITS NOT "TREATMENT" NUMBNUTS. It's called security. They asked you a whole lot of questions that didn't "make sense" to you, they searched your luggage, and finally you got frisked. Meanwhile, yes, not ALL 1000s of people boarding at same time went through the exact same procedure as you, but some did.
You have no clue how and why the process is how it is. It's there for a reason and it works and (at least in Israel) it's conducted by highly trained professionals. YES they treat not on everyone exactly the same but focus on people with shifty answers, unusual stories, visa stamps to Ramallah etc, more so than some US rabbi on his 10th trip to Israel. You are welcome to call that profiling, but keep in mind when there is NO profiling people rage about the TSA idiots patting down nuns, senators, pilots, 5 year olds, and 90 year olds in wheelchairs.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2010/November/Israeli-Security-Expert-TSA-Procedures-Hysterical/
Well, that sucks. Enjoy your return to Canada!
The incentives are: your willful association with the Arab struggle that is disguised as a fight for justice and equal rights, but is in fact a thinly veiled advocacy of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Throughout your entire presence in r/Israel, you have vehemently defended criminal Palestinian politics, but haven't even once stated openly what is it exactly that you believe, or why did you choose to go to West Bank of all places. Three times now, I have asked you to clarify your personal beliefs wrt the conflict between Israel and the Arabs, and three times you shrugged it off. And it appears I am not the only one who had a similar experience. For example, here is your response to a repeated direct question on whether you admit or deny the Jewish right to self-determination:
Which brings me to my point.
There is absolutely nothing for anybody from the Western world to do in West Bank unless they're going there as an expression of political solidarity. In fact, doing so is downright stupid and dangerous.
And since it is absolutely clear that this is exactly what you did, it is indecent of you to make the surprised face on reddit, no matter how well wrapped in politeness and high praise for professionalism of Ben Gurion security. It is a fact that there is a violent conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. You went to enemy territory; associated with the enemy; advocated enemy politics; and now you pretend that it was all fine and dandy and that there is no cause whatsoever for you to be searched and questioned extensively. Do you know why is that? Because two sorts of people go to West Bank. Morons and radicals.
Hahahahha. Seriously? Oh. My. God. I'm gonna save that. :D
Dude this speaks for itself. Wow.
Yes, it does, doesn't it? Correct me if I am wrong: you dedicated time and money to travel half across the world into a place that is utterly worthless, intolerant, generally lawless and at times turns into a warzone. The only worse combination for entertainment purposes would be if you were a black woman, because then the extent of lawlessness and intolerance would become immediately obvious to you. Of all the places in the world, you chose East Jerusalem and Ramallah. One is the most contentious place in the world, and the other is the quiet little town where they gladly lynched two soldiers and made some pictures with smiles and blood on their hands for the world to see. And somehow, having read much of your comments, I don't imagine that you went there to stand on the corners and shout about the urgent need of reconciliation between Jews and Arabs (aside of the obvious effect such an endeavour would have on your health). So in the final analysis, this begs conclusion that you went there neither out of idle curiousity nor to reconnect with whatever roots you might have (albeit the latter you seem to have denied), but purely out of ideological and political motivation. So, when you conceal your personal beliefs and goals but have the gall to criticize others for speaking their personal beliefs, I have to call it what it is: hypocrisy. I wouldn't be too surprised if you are somehow associated with ISM or other less than ethical entities who, for lack of better wording, advocate terrorism. You do feel that Palestinian resistance is justified, don't you? Because the literal interpretation of your latest utterances is this: jews should've never come into Palestine, which means it'd be better if they perished as a people. Under all the layers of feigned privacy concerns and contrived laughter there is this one thought, and I bet you don't even understand it. Can't put a smiley face on that. Sure, I'd like to think I am wrong in my assesment, but I don't think I am. You have carefully, deliberately and politely pretended to be a neutral observer who doesn't express any ideas of his own, and who genuinely wonders why things are the way they are. We've been to this story with milligram, alllie, mredd, that guy from Pakistan who pretended to be an Israeli and was outed, a bunch of white supremacists who call themselves "occidentalists" and "white nationalists" and who on occasion take Jewish names, and a dozen or two of other interesting persons whose names I don't care to remember. I've heard it all, literally.
Hahaha MikeSeth, if anything, props for your writing skills. I'm envious of that.
The rest: not so much.
We've been over this a few times (maybe it wasn't with you, I don't recall): bottom line is, I'm done wasting my time going into debates that starts off with insults, accusations and personal interest. I know that you and other's here are very much into this thing, but I can assure you I'm not.
I'd love to debate Israel, Palestine, Jews, Muslims, War, Peace etc. with you. I will not spend time playing your game where you seek to change a given subject into a personal matter every chance you get. Usually in the form of accusations that I would then spend time to free my self of. I've been there and I've learned that not only is it a cheap way of talking around the topic at hand, it's also a complete waste of time and irrelevant to almost any discussion. In fact, when you start these little games of yours (where do you live, why are you here, what makes you entitled to an opinion, etc.) I pity you for it. I can see you have me boxed in nicely as some kind of nazi and you know what, go ahead. I don't care.
You might feel differently. I know a couple of people here who do. Peace with that, but it's not for me.
You have no problem whatosever insulting people when presented with a vision of reality substantially different from your own one, and there's little doubt that you've been evading direct questions regardless of whether they're associated with insults and accusations. Of course, siding with the Arabs by itself is a sort of accusation; but then again, you did go to West Bank and you still refuse to explain why.
So, I am right.
Re-read my comment above. The only thing I refuse is to be dragged down in the mud with you, debating personal stuff instead of topics relevant to r/israel.
Keep telling yourself that.
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You actually created a new account just to make that retarded excuse of a comment?