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“You're the mongoose I want under the house when the snakes slither by.”

S1 Spoilers

I mean, his newly appointed therapist just said that and Will didn't flinch a lot? I know the entire GJH showdown happened after that but even post that he never chatter up with anyone at all, Jack or Beverly sometimes. Like Hey Jack everything's fine but Hannibal told me something about snakes and mongoose. Jack be like ok maybe he is taking a very indirect approach.

Yes, he talked about killing and god feels good about killing people and stuff but that was far more weird than that.

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Edited

no the direct meaning in the context of their conversation is "I don’t think you’re fragile like Jack I think you’re stronger than anyone else believe, you can be a defender and not just the nerd weird guy who interpret dried blood on crime scenes"

result —> Will shot down GJH with his own hands. Hannibal slightly opened up a crack in Will’s controlled personnality (persona) and life. Just a tiny little push. So little it’s impossible to source. That’s why Hannibal then almost obliviously harasses Will about how killing GJH made him feel, because he triggered the whole thing himself and nobody is even aware. He’s a fucking demon, a well cooked Lucifer in the flesh.

He said this literally seconds prior the mangoose quote : "the devils is in the details" "the mathematics of human behaviour, all those ugly variables". He was actually talking about himself, because he was the copycat and Will was in whole confusion about how the copycat gave him an almost "gift-wrapped crime scene"

What a beautiful fascinating tv series.

u/ghost-church avatar

I’d be more weirded out by “bone arena of your skull” personally.

“Bone Arena” sounds like a frat house.

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I could be wrong, but I think there is this description regarding Will Graham in the book too, but it was said by someone else, I think a former co-worker from New Orleans, I'm not sure

u/Spirited-Form-5748 avatar
Edited

I don't think Will flinched at this comment for two possible reasons: he either did not fully understand what Hannibal meant when he said this phrase, or he interpreted it the wrong way. When you first think of a mongoose, assuming you already know what it generally is, you might picture a stoat, a ferret, or a weasel -- all similarly shaped rodent-like animals that are passive, cute, and seemingly harmless. So, upon first assumption, it seems like Hannibal's saying "Oh, you're the fragile little rodent I want safely hidden and tucked away when dangers go by".

BUT mongoose are actually carnivorous animals that are rather ferocious for their sizes, a bit like meerkats and civets. They are known for attacking large snakes like cobras and whatnot. So, the truth of this phrase, once you do some digging, is essentially that Hannibal is referring to Will as his inside-man, and the snakes are not the criminals Will deals with or Hannibal himself, but rather the FBI and Jack Crawford. Will is unknowingly "attacking" the snakes, since he's under Hannibal's influence and Hannibal -- being the Chesapeake Ripper and the Copy Cat -- can use him as an outlet that feeds him information on what he needs to do to avoid the FBI's suspicion. He also is planning on using Will as a scapegoat, if need be -- the mongoose being under the house can mean a couple of things: he's hidden and safely observing, involuntarily funneling Hannibal information... but it can be a place where the snakes turn, trap, and corner him. In other words, it sets Hannibal up for framing Will when the snakes notice the mongoose that's been cunningly lurking under the house this whole time.

As to why Will didn't mention any of this to Jack or Beverly -- I think he just never got a chance to, one thing led to another. The next chance he might've had to speak to Jack about anything, he'd been traumatized after killing GJ Hobbs, and then Hannibal started weaseling (no pun intended) his way into Will's brain. By the time Will started putting pieces together that Hannibal was the "bad guy", Hannibal had already framed Will and revealed to the snakes that the mongoose has been hiding under the house. So I suspect this line played a part in Will's mind somewhere when he figured Hannibal out (although it wasn't one of the most outstanding of things Hannibal said or did, since Hannibal had spent basically the entirety of season 1 dropping sly quips and hints about who he was), he just never voiced it aloud. The phrase just got lost in translation amidst all the chaos of Will being framed, Will barking about Hannibal whilst being framed, no one listening to Will, and so on and so forth.

Aren’t mongoose like super aggressive like a honey badger? Like they look super cute but are entirely capable of destroying and humiliating cobras.

u/Spirited-Form-5748 avatar

Yes, exactly! Most people already know honey badgers for notoriously being ridiculously aggressive. However mongoose, as I mentioned, are usually associated with the harmless, cute rodents like weasels and stoats upon first glance. Most people don't know that mongooses are very predatory.

...this is what makes this metaphor fall into place even more perfectly. Upon first glance, "the mongoose isn't a concern; I mean, look how cute he is, surely he's harmless" which then turns into "crap that mongoose is actually really barbaric" 😂

It also fits Will’s personality really well. Hannibal caught onto it pretty early that Will may look small and cute (guy is 5’10” btw…), but he’s actually incredibly savage in nature especially if cornered. Definitely like a mongoose. A very catty mongoose.

u/Spirited-Form-5748 avatar

The righteous, reckless, twitchy little man that he is 🙈😉

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Like ducks, ducks are barbaric

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You’re reading this wayyy differently than intended. I’m pretty sure. Have you read the script for this episode? It’s very clear in context that it was intended to convey that Will is not fragile. Also I am pretty sure most people know what a mongoose is. But Will is of the generation that grew up watching a show and movie about a mongoose so he definitely knows what a mongoose is.

I also read the script and understand that at first glance in the context of the conversation, this is what Will understands, that Hannibal does not see him in a fragile way, contrary to that. But that's not all Hannibal meant. At that moment he read Will and Will's potential to be something deadly and aggressive in a greater way than encouraging him to kill Garret Jacob Hobbs, and as the owner of the post said very well: the snakes are Jack and the FBI and not the others serial killers.

As I said in my comment on this post, this idea of ​​Will against the snakes is about Will's personality, it is said by someone else in the book and in Will's last scene in the book he breaks a snake and uses it as a whip, something bizarre like that (Will's imagination/dream).

u/Spirited-Form-5748 avatar
Edited

I am not sure that you read my full comment? I’m also saying that the meaning of the message is that Will isn’t fragile, in fact he's the complete opposite, so it seems like we’re already on the same page here. 🤔

I have read the script for the episode (pretty much all of them, I’m kinda crazy). To me, it doesn’t reveal much. Anyway, I wasn't suggesting that Will doesn't know what a mongoose is at all, I was just suggesting -- as I said in my comment -- that one might not know that a mongoose is closer in fervency to a meerkat, a civet, or even a honey badger, since mongooses appear cute and harmless like their lookalikes: weasels, stoats, and ferrets. But on the inside, they're very fierce :)

Oh, sorry, I did read your full comment—I recognize I wasn’t very clear. I was really only responding to the first paragraph of your comment about how some people think mongooses are like tiny cute fragile creatures. You and I both came to the same conclusion about the mongoose line.. I was just trying to point out that most people (that I know of) know what mongooses (mongeese??)are/do, as you suggested one scenario to will’s response/lack of response was that he didn’t fully understand what Hannibal meant with this phrase,, I was just saying Will is someone who would know was a mongoose is.

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u/MrJ_Marrow avatar

what other sly quips did hannibal mention, i’m drawing a blank?

u/Spirited-Form-5748 avatar

Ohh, I'd probably have to go and rewatch season 1 again to pick up everything, but there's a few that come to mind.

  • Hannibal chose his wording very carefully, one time, when he'd said to Jack "Next time, bring your wife. I'd love to have you both for dinner."

  • Quite literally offhandedly jokes to Chilton when he's having dinner with Alana and him, in a lighthearted tone (although it's Hannibal so we know he's being dead serious), "Don't give me any ideas! Your tongue is very feisty. And as this evening has already proven, it's nice to have an old friend for dinner."

  • Jack asks what he's about to eat one time, Hannibal replies that it's rabbit, and then Jack jokes, "He should have hopped faster." Hannibal laughs, and says, "Fortunately for us, he did not." ...cut to flashing scene of a guy running away from Hannibal in the woods.

  • When Bella did end up coming over for dinner, she talks about animal cruelty, to which Hannibal replies he has an "ethical butcher". Later on, he introduces a second course, and cheekily tells her that, "and I assure you, Bella, it was an especially supercilious pig."

  • "Let me remind you all, nothing here is vegetarian." during a dinner party he hosts.

  • "It was a particularly chatty lamb."

  • And then of course there's the way he stops to blatantly stare at his guests as they take their first bite of "whatever meat" he's serving... speaks so many volumes without saying a singular word 😂

There's likely more, but I just can't remember all of them.

u/MrJ_Marrow avatar

brilliant

thanks for taking the time to write this

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Cute on the outside, evil bastard on the inside.

u/AllHailSushiCat avatar

Ooo okay, here’s my take on that scene!! Will doesn’t flinch, but you do see him kind of go quiet and contemplative, and I think he seems sort of caught off guard and uncomfortable with the comment. I interpret this as Hannibal absolutely nailing him as being “above” common murderers, higher up on the food chain if you will, due to his ability to assume their pov. And I think Will actually knows this about himself, but he represses it because it makes him uncomfortable and feels like a dangerous thing for him to acknowledge about himself or have recognized by others. Given how different his behavior is in the following seasons, I think a lot of Will’s season 1 stance of vulnerability (that isn’t caused by the encephalitis of course) is probably a lifelong unconscious social tactic to remain in some degree of connection with others, to make himself seem vaguely weak and passive so that others don’t see him as too much of a threat. So, I think when Hannibal not only notices his true capability / darkness but also COMPLIMENTS it after like ten seconds of knowing him, Will feels both seen and appreciated, and uncomfortably exposed. I think he doesn’t tell anyone else about this comment because it rings far too true to him, and would be far to revealing of his true nature, which he isn’t even comfortable with acknowledging himself. I think season 1 Will doesn’t want anyone to know (including himself) that he’s an “apex predator”, because that’s a very lonely thing to be.