Does anything in my story seem like a lack of following the appropriate standard of care doctors should have? I never fully healed from my health issues and it feels like doctors didn't do as much as they could have to have helped me. No spinal tap ever done even with possible encephalitis symptoms. : r/covidlonghaulers Skip to main content

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A community for individuals suffering from the effects of COVID-19 longer than the estimated 4 weeks, also known as PACS, PASC, and Long Covid.


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Does anything in my story seem like a lack of following the appropriate standard of care doctors should have? I never fully healed from my health issues and it feels like doctors didn't do as much as they could have to have helped me. No spinal tap ever done even with possible encephalitis symptoms.

Vent/Rant

I randomly got very sick a few years ago. I am not sure of the cause, but I believe it may have been COVID, which I believe my have unfortunately spurred on some sort of a pretty severe autoimmune/inflammatory reaction. It came on very sudden, first with brain fog, then a dull pressure headache, and then muscle twitching, what felt like a fever, neuropathy on the left side of my body (It began in my face and went downwards, used to affect both sides but only the left side now), ear ringing, throbbing headaches, upper body burning pain, dizziness, memory issues, neck stiffness, sinus inflammation that caused watery mucus, and other issues. I remember one day about a month into my issues, I had an extreme warmness in my face and nearly constant ear ringing on and off. It was the strangest thing.

I was able to see a PCP about a month into my issues. My PCP did not seem to consider my issues of an urgent nature, even with sudden neuropathy, memory loss, dizziness, etc. I had a CT scan of my brain 3 months after initial illness which showed mild volume loss and possible encephalomalacia.

It took me a year to finally see a neurologist for it due to waiting times. The first one I saw was dismissive and literally told me to "wait it out" and see if I got better (I didn't). The second one I saw, and saw the longest, didn't even see me personally the first time, and had his nurse look at me instead, and did really nothing for my issues save for trying a very small dosage of Gabapentin for a few months as well as vitamin supplements, which I stopped taking due to it not doing anything for me. The third one I saw for a second opinion of the second one told me "I don't know what's causing your symptoms" and just left it at that. I saw a rheumatologist in 2022 who also didn't do anything for my neuropathy, just more blood work testing.

I recently found out the second neurologist I saw who I saw for years from late 2021 to early 2024 was successfully sued for malpractice while I saw him, but in another state. I believe he does telehealth neurology. He was sued in Georgia and settled for 175,000 dollars in late 2022. I had been seeing him since late 2021, and last saw him in person in late 2023 where he blamed my issues on "stress" and left it at that. That was very distressing and worrying to find out, as I wonder if he didn't do all he could have to create a better prognosis. All I know is that I'd have to have a future doctor say this doctor missed something he should have done to create a non-permanent health issue for me, something along those lines.

I've had blood work for lupus and celiac that was negative, and an ANA rating that was barely positive. Normal rheumatoid factor and negative for Sjogren's as well. I just checked and I believe I am negative for vasculitis as well, Antineutrophil cytoplasmic antibody test was negative looking back at my testing in 2022. I also had a sinus CT scan a year into my issues that showed mild sinusitis. I am not diabetic but I was pre-diabetic when this began. Glucose testing has been normal, cholesterol is fine, lipids are fine. B12 is normal, but vitamin D is low.

It has been almost 3 years now and I still have neuropathy in certain parts of the left side of my body (mainly my face and genitals, I'm male and was born male) and again, nothing was done for me regarding a spinal tap, which is the only test outside of a PET scan that I haven't done which could be helpful for me as far as I know. I saw that third neurologist for a second opinion, and all he did was say maybe to get a spinal tap if I have chronic headaches, but other than that, like I said, he said outright he didn't know what was causing my symptoms.

I cannot work with how I feel, and it feels like neurologists and doctors in general left me to rot and deal with the chronic issues on my own, and now I'm going to be stuck with long-term, permanent issues such as nerve damage in my face and genitals because no doctor cares. I have ED and anorgasmia now along with the neuropathy that affects my genital area. It's just on the left side for some reason. It used to be tingling/burning on the left side of my genital area and face and now is reduced sensitivity issues.  In 2021 I had a very sharp pain on the left side of my penis when I touched the right side of it, it was very scary and made me believe the nerve may have died, but that went away with very slow improvement, but that side is still not back to normal.

I still sometimes have dizziness and headaches, for instance, if I'm in a car and I watch the cars speed by us at an intersection, I'll feel sort of dizzy. It's not as bad as it was, but it's still not normal to feel like that, and no doctor has done anything for that or suggested it.

Am I wrong to think a spinal tap should have been ordered? Is there any reason they didn't, even after I asked? 0 out of the 3 neurologists I've seen in the past three years or so recommended one, so I did try getting second and even third opinions. The first neurologist genuinely just brushed me off, he didn't even order any testing. Just sent me on my way without a follow up appointment after saying to "wait it out".

I live in America and am on my state's Medicaid in Rhode Island. I recently switched PCPs (my previous one was condescending and didn't seem interested in my issues) and the new PCP referred me to a new neurologist I'm going to see later this year, but it just feels at this point all they can do is assess the damage and not fix it due to it being so long since I got sick and my issues never really totally fixing itself. I'm upset as I feel like doctors in another state bordering mine would have been better early on as they got better reviews, but my insurance wouldn't let me see them.

I had an MRA of my head last month that was clean thankfully, so I think I didn't have a hemorrhagic stroke or some sort of blood vessel damage in my arteries. I saw a neurosurgeon about two weeks ago that I last saw in 2021 who still believes my cerebral atrophy (which I'm guessing is the volume loss likely caused by encephalomalacia) is abnormal for my age (mid-20s). The neurosurgeon's notes say my current neurologist believes I may have small fiber neuropathy as well as a cognitive disorder, but he has not prescribed a single thing since the low dosage of Gabapentin over two years ago.

The only real testing I have left from my previous neurologist is neuropsychological testing which will be a few hours. I am 90% positive that my issues are from something, likely a virus, causing severe chronic inflammation all over my body including my head. I was never in the past 3.5 years given anything to treat that inflammation.

I recently saw a new neurologist which is my 4th neurologist since 2021. He seemed genuinely interested in what had happened to me and found the symptoms frustrating because of how vague they were/are, but it was in a "I wish i knew so I could help you" way, which I've never seen with a previous doctor I've seen. He said a spinal tap in 2021 may have been useful but didn't think it was essential testing for my issues, said he might have tried Prednisone for a couple of weeks to see if it helped with inflammation, but that was it. He said since I'm still seeing very slow improvement, my nerves may still heal, but is that true, even this late into it? I feel the previous neurologists I saw didn't care at all, and I finally found one that does, but it's too late to make a difference. He said trying B12 supplements and Cymbalta might help. He wants me to get a lumbar MRI to see why I have nerve issues in my genital area. He didn't think I had GBS/AIDP or something like that either, but he did think a viral cause could be possible. He was all I could ask for a specialist like this, but again, seems too late to matter. I just don't know what to do.

I called my previous neurologist's office after switching to my new neurologist and asked them why they did not consider anti-inflammatory meds for my nerve issues when I had first seen him. It took me over a week to get an answer, and one of the people on his staff that I talked to told me they believed that I had been put on Prednisone for inflammatory issues at the time (I wasn't) and that nerve damage can't ever fully heal, which is why they only tried vitamins and gabapentin on me. She said it was this doctor's "standard protocol" and talked over me and talked down to me.

It was very depressing and upsetting to hear his staff say that and act like that when they had never said to me in person that I had a permanent nerve injury while I saw him and his staffers as a patient. I also believe it's incorrect, as I have had some nerve improvement in areas of my body with the passage of time which if they had actually treated probably could have fully healed by now, so it was strange for them to give such an upsetting prognosis to me after all these years. If I had had the first neurologist I saw actually try testing me instead of brushing me off, I wouldn't have been stuck with this quack. I remember this neurologist who only tried vitamins and gabapentin had Gerson Therapy books in his lobby, a practice which is banned in America for being a quack cancer treatment.

TL;DR: Got very sick years ago, told doctors of body weakness and pain, what felt like inflammation in my body, nerve damage, memory issues, etc. was not given any real treatment for what was still occurring in my body, which seemed to be chronic severe inflammation going on. If I get told I have permanent nerve damage/brain damage that was most likely from what I believe it to be, what would constitute the doctors I saw falling below the acceptable standard of care? Does anything in my story so far seem like negligence/a lack of care from doctors?

Please feel free to ask questions, and apologies for the length of my post.

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You’ve asked this dozens of times already. You need to move on.

u/Parking_Wolf_4159 avatar

Get me a doctor that gives a shit when it mattered and I will. I can't recover any more. The nerve damage is permanent. How can I "move on" when I still don't feel right?

You’re trying to get someone to say that the first neurologist is the reason for all your troubles. The truth is, there are no answers. We are all searching for them. Even the neurologists.

u/Parking_Wolf_4159 avatar

My neurologist was sued for malpractice while I saw him. There's treatment plans for neuropathy caused by inflammation. They didn't give a shit. You can treat neuropathy and inflammation, you don't need to know it's COVID to do that. A spinal tap was warranted and they never did it.

Even your new neurologist said it wasn’t necessary.

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To successfully sue for malpractice in the US, you have to meet 4 criteria:

  1. Prove the doctor had a legal duty to provide care or treatment to you, the patient

  2. A breach of the duty explained above by the doctor failing to adhere to the accepted standards of care

  3. A casual relationship between this breach of duty and injury to the patient

  4. Damages resulting from the injury that the legal system can provide compensation for

We can assume #1 is true since that's how our medical system works in the US. So let's look at #2. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're concerned that the lack of receiving a lumbar puncture (spinal tap) has led to a permanent deterioration of your condition due to suspected small fiber neuropathy (SFN). If I got that wrong, please let me know. But for now, let's continue working through the criteria based on my current understanding of your situation.

First of all, a lumbar puncture is not used to diagnose SFN. So it wouldn't make sense for that test to be ordered if potential SFN was your chief complaint. In fact, it sounds like the doctors you saw followed a reasonable protocol for investigating your symptoms. CT scans can be used to diagnose SFN, and the bloodwork you had done also makes sense since they tested you for a number of the conditions that can cause SFN. Doing a trial with gabapentin also falls within the standard of care since it's a common medication option for SFN. You said you stopped taking it however, due to a lack of efficacy. Did you inform your doctor of this? If so, was a higher dose offered at any point?

There are other tests that can be done to check for SFN, such as a skin biopsy. But based on the lack of evidence for it in your other testing and imaging, I wouldn't be surprised if your doctors decided the risk outweighed the benefits. Just because a test can be done doesn't mean it should be. It's incredibly frustrating as the patient, trust me I know from personal experience. But risk-benefit analyses are done to keep us safe, even if it means we don't get everything we want.

While it's unacceptable in my opinion that you were apparently supposed to receive prednisone and didn't, this was likely due to a clerical error, not a conscious choice to stray from the standard of care. So while it's very frustrating and shouldn't be something that happens, it's not grounds for a medical malpractice lawsuit.

Lastly for #2, you've seen 4 neurologists at this point, correct? And none of them have felt that a lumbar puncture is appropriate for your particular situation. I highly doubt any sane lawyer would take your case once they learned about that. It's one thing to claim a single doctor failed to provide adequate care. But four? That would never hold up in court. Especially if they're all from different clinics/hospitals.

Moving on to #3, I don't think you have anywhere near enough evidence to prove this point right now. Hell, I don't even have enough evidence to prove this for my own LC, and I do have a formal diagnosis of my specific condition and evidence of a delay of care by multiple doctors. My illness absolutely worsened over time due to this delay, but I can't prove a breach of duty because there wasn't one. My doctors were working with the information they had at the time and within the protocols outlined for my symptoms. Is it frustrating beyond belief that I now have a permanent heart disease that quite possibly could have been cured if we had treated it earlier? Abso-fucking-lutely. But was it caused by negligence? No. And your situation sounds like it's the same as mine in that regard. Medicine is not infallible. Mistakes happen, things move too slowly, people get hurt or killed. But that doesn't automatically make it malpractice.

Finally, #4 is a moot point based on #2 and #3. I think that's pretty obvious, but I figured I'd mention it for the sake of thoroughness.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to downplay what you went through or your LC or anything like that. But I've seen how stuck you are on this and it's not healthy. As someone who's working through PTSD from my own LC experience, I get it, I really do. But there comes a point where it's time to move on. The stress of dwelling on this takes a huge toll on your body and mind, which won't help your LC at all. I think seeking out the help of a trauma therapist would be really beneficial for you. They can help you come to terms with what's happened and find healthier ways to manage your thoughts and feelings around it. We aren't saying what you've been through doesn't matter or that it wasn't horrible. We're telling you this because we've been there and we know firsthand the kind of harm this rumination does. Please try to understand that we just want to help you because we care about you and don't want you to keep suffering like this.

u/Parking_Wolf_4159 avatar
Edited

First of all, a lumbar puncture is not used to diagnose SFN. So it wouldn't make sense for that test to be ordered if potential SFN was your chief complaint. In fact, it sounds like the doctors you saw followed a reasonable protocol for investigating your symptoms. CT scans can be used to diagnose SFN, and the bloodwork you had done also makes sense since they tested you for a number of the conditions that can cause SFN. Doing a trial with gabapentin also falls within the standard of care since it's a common medication option for SFN. You said you stopped taking it however, due to a lack of efficacy. Did you inform your doctor of this? If so, was a higher dose offered at any point?

Did you not see the other symptoms I mentioned at all, the abnormal brain MRI possibly indicating IIH? Did you just brush over that completely? It wasn't just the neuropathy.

Lastly for #2, you've seen 4 neurologists at this point, correct? And none of them have felt that a lumbar puncture is appropriate for your particular situation. I highly doubt any sane lawyer would take your case once they learned about that. It's one thing to claim a single doctor failed to provide adequate care. But four? That would never hold up in court. Especially if they're all from different clinics/hospitals.

If you google the names of two of the four neurologists, they have a history of successful malpractice lawsuits. I saw the first one in September 2021, the second one about a month later, his NP did the initial appointment, not even him. The third person I saw in summer 2023 and said "I don't know what's causing your symptoms", and now I see a new neurologist who said he may have done a spinal tap back in 2021 but doesn't see the use now, and would have at most tried Prednisone for my issues for a few weeks. I've had another doctor who specializes in the spine say that a spinal tap should have been considered, considering the plethora of symptoms I had, it wasn't just SFN.

It's not my fault the first two neurologists sucked. The first one (sued for malpractice for failure to diagnose a stroke back in the 90s, went to trial and lost) didn't even do any testing. That seems to fall below the acceptable standard of care completely. He fucking told me to "wait out" my issues. He didn't even do an EMG/NCV of my body to see if I had large fiber neuropathy. No testing. Nothing. That seems like negligence. The second neurologist (Sued in 2022 while I saw him, can't find the specific reason for the case online, but settled for around 175,000 dollars) I saw was the aloof asshole I was stuck with until recently that was sued for malpractice and settled while I saw him. I wish he brushed me off too, I wasted years seeing him, and my demeaning PCP who wasn't even an MD/DO basically forced me to stick it out with him for a year. His staff just recently told me to basically give up because my nerve damage will never fully heal. That's really nice to say to a patient after 2 years. Hope their practice burns down with them inside.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to downplay what you went through or your LC or anything like that. But I've seen how stuck you are on this and it's not healthy. As someone who's working through PTSD from my own LC experience, I get it, I really do. But there comes a point where it's time to move on.

That's cute. If the nerve damage means I'll never have normal sexual function again I'm killing myself. If by the end of the year it's still the same, I'm done. Doctors just had to give a shit. It doesn't work right anymore. It feels like it's damaged to the point of not having a full recovery. I was never given a fucking treatment for it even after having to embarrass myself and mention it to doctors.

Also, you are downplaying it when you ignore that it wasn't just neuropathy I had. It was just about every awful vague symptom you could have. I put a hole in my wall out of sheer frustration in 2021 because of how much pain I was in the first year due to the burning weakness pain I had almost daily in my upper body. I was just sitting in bed in total pain and I did that because it wasn't stopping. I couldn't remember names for two years, I still can't do it nearly as good as prior to illness. I'm not healed by a fucking longshot. I still get dizzy, I still get head pressure, I still have neck issues.

I'll be honest, it was hard af to follow along with the massive, rambling wall of text you wrote. I didn't mention the brain MRI since it sounded like your current neurologist is aware of it and addressed it with you already. Again, it's almost impossible to follow all of the details of your story, so it's really hard to not miss any. You were primarily talking about SFN and the lumbar puncture, so that's what I focused on. I'm not your doctor. It's not my job to go through your medical history with a fine toothed comb. My point was to try to get you to see that you'll never win a malpractice lawsuit and you need to start focusing your energy elsewhere.

A doctor saying they can't find the cause of your symptoms is also not malpractice. Also, you're complaining that no one is willing to address your inflammation, but you sound upset that your current neurologist offered a medication to do just that? And you're saying "may have" and "considered" in reference to the lumbar puncture, which makes it clear that even these better doctors agree that it may not have been indicated back then. Besides, the earlier doctors did run tests. It's not like they cut you loose without looking into anything. They cast a wide net, didn't find anything that would support further testing, and so they did a medication trial. That's pretty common when it comes to vague symptoms with no clear cause. That's how my own LC got diagnosed. Also, you didn't answer my questions about if you ever told them that the gabapentin wasn't helping.

I never said it was your fault they sucked. Some doctors do just suck and unfortunately patients tend to find that out the hard way. Been there, done that. And just because someone won a malpractice suit against a doctor decades ago doesn't mean you will. I also saw a few doctors who didn't do fuck all for my LC. That doesn't give me the right to sue them because I'm unhappy with them. If they can provide sound clinical reasoning for the decisions they made, then they didn't breach their duty of care. Your approval of what they did or didn't do has nothing to do with it.

Being unable to untangle all of your symptoms from your winding saga doesn't mean I'm downplaying anything. I even noted that I could be wrong and asked politely for a correction if that was the case. You're taking an innocent misunderstanding as a personal attack. You need to understand that not everyone is out to get you. It's not healthy living with your current mindset, and it's not necessary either. But you have to make that choice. None of us can do it for you. When I said that you need to move on, I was speaking from personal experience. I've had my own fair share of shit doctors gaslighting me and refusing to do fuck all to help me. But I eventually decided that I was tired of letting them control me day in and day out and got help. I'm already wrecked physically because of everything I've been through. I wasn't about to let it destroy me mentally too. What good does it do you to be this angry and obsessed over the past? What's done is done. You can't change it. But you can prevent it from stealing more of your life than it already has. That's what everyone here is trying to get you to understand.

I know that you're suffering. We all are. My blood vessels are permanently damaged and my heart will have to be monitored closely for the rest of my life. I'm only 33 and already on 6 different heart medications just to keep me alive and mostly functional. Do you really think that I haven't been through the anger, hatred, and fear that you're going through right now? Hell, I still experience it more days than not. This is as healed as I'm ever going to get and that's fucking scary. But it makes it all the more important that I don't focus my time and energy on futile vendettas that do nothing but drag me down further. And the same goes for you, and everyone else here. It's ok to feel those things and let them run their course, but it can't go on forever. I'm not saying you have to immediately forgive and forget. I'm just saying that you should look into getting help for what you're going through. It's a lot and not something you should have to process alone.

u/Parking_Wolf_4159 avatar
Edited

I'll be honest, it was hard af to follow along with the massive, rambling wall of text you wrote. 

What I wrote was detailed, it wasn't "rambling". I notice you stopped acting like they didn't fail in their care with me once you realized it wasn't just neuropathy. They should have done a spinal tap and I saw two bad doctors and now I have to kill myself. Thanks for that. The fuck is a therapist gonna do? Will they fix my impotency? My memory? Anything? Give me the money to see a doctor that gives a shit. That's therapy.

Besides, the earlier doctors did run tests. It's not like they cut you loose without looking into anything.

I waited a year to see a neurologist and the first didn't do any testing whatsoever. Did you miss that with my "rambling"? I wish my second neuro cut me loose after one appointment, they were both awful.

Also, you're complaining that no one is willing to address your inflammation, but you sound upset that your current neurologist offered a medication to do just that? 

Learn to read. He said he would have tried Prednisone 3 years ago, not now.

And you're saying "may have" and "considered" in reference to the lumbar puncture, which makes it clear that even these better doctors agree that it may not have been indicated back then.

He's not going to tell me "Yes he failed in his standard of care and you can sue him", is he? They all know each other. Doctors are liars.

I also saw a few doctors who didn't do fuck all for my LC. 

What are your symptoms, exactly? How long did it take for a doctor to care?

 My blood vessels are permanently damaged and my heart will have to be monitored closely for the rest of my life. I'm only 33 and already on 6 different heart medications just to keep me alive and mostly functional. 

Yeah I'd rather my dick work and have a bad heart than what I have right now. I don't care.

You're definitely reading into things beyond what was meant, because I never changed my mind about your situation. But let me be perfectly clear so there's no more confusion: your doctors did nothing wrong. They were right to not do a lumbar puncture just because you wanted one. That doesn't make them bad doctors. Their seemingly shitty bedside manner might, however. But that's still not a valid reason to sue for malpractice. And none of that is a reason to kill yourself. You've said yourself that you're mostly recovered. You'd throw all of that away because a couple of doctors didn't order a test? And more specifically, a test that wouldn't have changed your outcome anyway? I feel like a better use of your anger would be to try to make the most of your life and keep working on your recovery to spite the doctors who you feel wronged you. If those doctors are going to live rent free in your head, at least put them to good use.

Again, it was hard af to keep track of your story. I have ADHD and struggle with walls of text that don't have a clear progression. Excuse me for having a neurodevelopmental disorder while trying to help you....and I'm not the only one who has trouble with your posts, btw. I've seen others tell you the same thing before.

I've also waited ages to see specialists who then did fuck all to help me. It's quite common, unfortunately. What's not common is getting this obsessed over it. Hence my therapy suggestion. Your reaction to this is not normal. Also, fun fact, psychological issues are one of the major causes of erectile dysfunction. Your fixation on your penis could very likely be exacerbating, if not causing, your impotency. So yeah, a therapist might actually be able to help you with that.

I can read just fine. But by all means, keep making fun of me for my disability. Just don't expect others to give a shit about your health issues in return if this is how you treat people who are trying to help you.

He wouldn't tell you to sue because you have no legal grounds to do so. Doctors often have no problem calling each other out. My current cardiologist and my PCP both disapproved of a treatment my first cardiologist tried and didn't hide their feelings about it, both to me and in the appointment notes. My PCP doesn't like my pulmonologist either and hasn't been shy about it. And all of these doctors are in the same clinic system, so most of them do at least know of each other. Your current neurologist isn't going to tell you to sue them because you don't have a reason to, not because all doctors are involved in some shady cabal.

I have vascular and cardiac symptoms, the primary symptom being angina with exertion. It took a few months to even convince my PCP to listen to me and refer me to a cardiologist, and then it took a few more months to find one that wasn't an ass. Even then, I wasn't able to get the test I wanted and actually did have a valid clinical reason to get. I went to the Mayo Clinic and everything, but still wasn't able to have it done. So you aren't the only one who can't get the testing they want. The difference is I don't try to sue everyone who says no to me.

I bet you'd change your tune real fast the first time you experienced your heart suffocating as your entire body screamed in agony for oxygen. Or the first time you almost passed out because the electrical system in your heart went haywire, triggering an arrhythmia that prevented your blood from reaching your brain. It's not possible for me to put into words the feeling of primal terror that comes with feeling your body on the brink of an acute, life-threatening event like that and knowing you can't do a fucking thing to stop it. I'd happily give up any and all feeling in my genitals forever if it meant I didn't have to actively worry about dying every single day for the rest of my fucking life. Sorry your dick is broken, but you seriously need to get some fucking perspective if you think that's the worst thing that can happen to you. You know that there are people here who have been diagnosed with terminal illnesses due to COVID, right? That's something else you can discuss in the therapy you so desperately need.

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u/DankJank13 avatar

I hope you find the help you need. I just read through a bunch of your posts and comments and you are pretty rude in a lot of your replies to people. I understand you are in pain, but you are not coming off well by replying to people with things like "that's cute..." when they give you an honest attempt at answering your questions.