Questions on Ties

In modern sumo, at what point would a tie be declared a tie, and how would this be recorded? According to Wikipedia draws have been phased out in favor of do-overs, and the last one I can find from a query was in 1994 (though Wikipedia says an Itamiwake last happened in 1999 that I'm apparently missing with the original query).

I could see this happening in a couple of ways: 1) A single long bout or three that sees no one lose, or 2) A bunch of shorter bouts in which both wrestlers end up continuously going out at the same time.

I assume there would be at least one or two do-overs, but at some point the judges would have to stop the fighting and move on, especially in the lower ranks. Or would they pull the two wrestlers aside, let the other fights continue, and then have the two keep on doing redos after the day is over until one of them passes out or gives up? Though the Wikipedia entry for Hikiwake says that for a single long bought the wrestlers would get a chance to rest until redoing the match. So presumably the two wrestlers, if too tired, would get a chance to rest between bouts regardless of how many bouts they had tied.

From what I've read so far I'm guessing this would eventually be called a draw as a hikiwake, as that result still seems to technically be a possibility.

So far searching about this I've found four kinds of draws documented by kimarite in the DB, azukari, hikiwake, itamiwake, and something called a yasumi that isn't defined in the Wikipedia glossary. Does anyone know what a "yasumi" was? It seems to result in one of the wrestlers completely withdrawing, so was this just a fusen in a time when a withdrawal wasn't an automatic win for the other wrestler? This seems to be the case as the glossary says that fusenshō was established in 1927, the year of the last yasumi.

I may have answered all of my questions in the course of writing this, but am interested in more informed input, especially if anyone knows of any of the historical reasons for these rules changes.

If they keep calling for a torinaoshi due to multiple times of the combatants going out at the same time, I see no reason to believe that a draw would ever be called unless it turned into shokkiri where they intentionally were doing that.  If the bouts are coming close enough to a decision, redoing them has a good chance of getting a decidable one.

The only time they would call a draw is if the rikishi were locked up in yotsu for interminable periods without progress, they had already called 2 mizu-iri, one in which they put them back into the same position, and another which would start from a tachiai again, and there was no progress in getting either rikishi into a losing position.  That would require at least 10 minutes of nothing, and maybe 15, depending on when they decide to call the mizu-iri and when they get fed up with the lack of action the third time around to call a draw.  I think it would only happen in yotsu, as if they were both being leery and refusing to attack at arm's length for long enough, they'd get a talking-to about how they need to attack during the mizu-iri, while during a yotsu stall, it's harder to command them to just try harder, as they're at least engaging with the opponent.

While I mentioned Ichinojo and Hokuseiho before, I think this is actually more likely to happen near the bottom of the banzuke, where the rikishi are more likely to have lower strength-to-weight ratios.

It would presumably be called a hikiwake, the same as the most recent one.

I'll also note that in the lower divisions at least, when a mizu-iri is called, they do the next 2 or 3 bouts, then come back to the bout that the rikishi are on break from.  For sekitori, I don't think they do that; I only really know they do it in the lower divisions from the one time it happened in Aki 2014 while I was publishing videos of all the lower division action.  Since it's impossible (or rather, a terrible idea to be awake at 5am local time) for me to watch live, I don't know what happens with sekitori water breaks.

3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I don't know what happens with sekitori water breaks

Everyone waits for them to restart the bout, I think.

I wish I'd remember which bout it was, but there was definitely a mizu iri a few days ago.

I think if both aren't able to continue. Let's say Tamawashi and Hokutofuji go full Ibex and are down and out.

On 19/05/2024 at 05:40, itchyknee said:

In modern sumo, at what point would a tie be declared a tie, and how would this be recorded? According to Wikipedia draws have been phased out in favor of do-overs, and the last one I can find from a query was in 1994 (though Wikipedia says an Itamiwake last happened in 1999 that I'm apparently missing with the original query).

You can include the kimarite in the search query.

1 hour ago, Kashunowaka said:

You can include the kimarite in the search query.

I eventually figured that out, thanks.