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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:36 pm 
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Posts: 319
Right. Long post warning.
Quote:
first my name is Lanson. Fourthmeal is simply an avitar, as typical.
Of course what you mean is that fourthmeal is your "screen-name" or "handle" - mine is OzGecko. In computing terms, the term avatar is generally used to refer to the graphical representation of a user i.e. the small picture or icon displayed in their profile and against their posts. You don't have one. I only asked your name because it seems impersonal to just refer to you as "fourthmeal" - my name is Dominic and I sign my posts with it. I think it's important to remind ourselves that there are real people on the other end of the wire.
Hi Lanson. And re the 1JZ etc:
Quote:
the car can look amazing with a big engine.
Is that really what you meant to write? You care about how the engine looks? Odd. I would of thought that someone building a sporting car would care how it drives. Anyway, as you've now stated your anathema towards 4-cylinder engines I won't waste anymore energy on that topic.

There have been a lot of questions asked of you in this thread which, generally, you seem to have avoided answering. To make it clear, I've marked some important ones in this post in red. If you could give direct answers to even a few of these we might make some progress. Referring me to long, rambling, web-sites of someones channeled conversation with an ancient Egyptian God/alien hive-mind entity does not count as a direct answer. Plain English, broadly accepted sources are preferred. I'm snipping questions from a number of posts here but I'm trying to put sufficient context around each one to support answering.

Firstly, two unanswered simple questions from a few posts back:
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In fact, here's a silly little "scientific" article about one possibility: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 130020.htm . There is no accurate rendition of how long Earth is supposed to orbit the sun.
That's an article that says that projections of solar expansion show that the Earth would be swallowed by the Sun in 7.6 billion years. How is that at odds with what I've already said several times already - eventually the Earth will crash into the Sun but not for a long time yet. The fact that it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean some special magic force is stopping it - it just hasn't happened yet.
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Here's an argument over the horrible inaccuracies I was talking about before. http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/in ... 02648.html

That links to a forum discussion with someone who is obviously a pretty poor math student trying to understand how to apply Newtons law on gravitational attraction (which is written as a two-body formula) to a multi-body problem i.e. the solar system. That's a problem called calculus :) There's some discussion about the difficulty of measuring G to high levels of precision - is that the "horrible inaccuracies" you mean?
Please answer these simple questions. You started out with strong assertions about this but seem to have gone quiet when challenged to actually support those assertions.

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Third, if you follow calculus and complex mathematics, then you know that most of the breakthrough knowledge was gained through Srinivasa Ramanujan's channeling/lucid dreaming. Do you suddenly discredit the knowledge gained in this method?
Please list references (reputable ones) that give details on Ramanujan's "channeling/lucid dreaming". All the references I have here show that he was a natural mathematician in the same way as Gauss or Euler, and that (somewhat like them) he tended towards flashes of insight rather than laboriously working through proofs. He also suffered from ill-health most of his life and died very young at 32. To describe his work as "most of the breakthrough knowledge" in calculus and complex mathematics is drawing a very long bow indeed. His work is important and significant but certainly not to the exclusion of many, many others who have worked in the same field.
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read and understand the Seth and Ra channeling material. These are my references for now. What I would suggest is to read the material in its entirety, but only note that which sounds correct to you.
OK, so far I'm well into section 1 of the Ra material and thus far have noted nothing which sounds at all correct to me. There's some claims about the "hierarchical, intelligent energy" in the rocks that made the pyramids which is beyond laughable. I'll struggle on with it, but really, at this point it all appears to be the ravings of a paranoid schizophrenic to her therapist. It appears to be basically dressed up numerology and attempts to describe the universe in terms of "significant" numbers and numerical relationships.
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*BTW, if you think I'm joking about the anti-grav hardware in the B-2, do your own research and learn how the plane just wouldn't cost 2 BILLION (with a B) each without something like that. I know for an absolute, cold, hard fact that when the Roswell ship crashed, we picked up a lot of the technology and have since introduced a lot of it to the world, first of course in the hands of the military, like Kevlar and night vision. Anti-grav and the effects it produces are already out, and I promise you that. This information comes first-hand from a family member of mine. Long, amazing discussions of what happened in the years of armed services has revealed answers to me that most of you can only dream about. Lastly, I take extreme offense when someone tells me I'm lying about things like this. If that is your stance, i encourage you to put your money where your mouth is, and we'll take a flight to Oklahoma where the family member I'm speaking of lives currently, and I'll let him stare you straight in the face and explain the details. Otherwise, take my word for it, there is a reason why I bother trying to explain what actually happened to you. It isnt' for fame, it isn't for money, it is for the discovery of the truth around you.
I probably shouldn't even bother replying to this since you're obviously so deep in reality denial you're unreachable. But anyway... Night vision from the "Roswell ship"? Tricky, since night vision goggles (using photo-multiplier technology) were already in use during WW2. Also tricky because no credible source says anything other than a weather balloon "crashed" at Roswell in 1947. Just because a family member believes otherwise and tells you so doesn't make it any truer than you believing it and telling me so. As for $2 billion dollar B2's - the total program cost (factoring in design, development, testing, and then to actually build and deliver each plane) was indeed $2.1 billion each (that's as at 1997 see http://www.fas.org/man/gao/nsiad97181.htm for all the details). For a complex plane that pushes some of the boundaries of aircraft design and was only built in very small numbers, especially for a government customer, that's high but probably not completely ridiculous. That is a total program of $44.7 billion divided by only 21 final planes. An Airbus A380 costs (around) $330 million each and Airbus has stated that (currently) they'll need to sell at least 420 just to break even on the development cost. Designing and building planes is not cheap! Designing and building military planes is even worse!If the B2 has anti-grav, why did they bother with those complicated wings and all that stuff?
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BTW, there is no conspiracy of August 16th, if that is what you were referring to. that was the day that, if you recall, Russia ceased war against Georgia. It was also the day that Russia captured priceless secrets (like the anti-grav hardware of the B-2 Bomber), including encryption/decryption hardware/software that was never intended for Russia (or the rest of the world) to see. It is a well known fact (perhaps outside of good ol Media 'washed America) that Georgia attacked Russia, with the influences of several Elite forces in the area, including many Israeli fighters. The intent? Some believe it was an antagonistic push to start a WWIII scenario, the NWO's intent for a while now. Unfortunately, before Israel could get their planes and missiles on target and on their way, Russia saw the attack coming and already had enough air and ground support to obliterate them. I ask you...how much of this did you know? Not too much, right? Same thing with the CIA's involvement in Afghanistan, etc. You aren't told too much as an American, if you didn't already know.
Well, I'm outside of the USA and my understanding of the South Ossetia conflict is that was a continuation of long running divisions between Georgians and Ossetians in the region. Georgia attacked the South Ossetian capital on 7 August; Russia, in support of the South Ossetians, launched counter-attacks. The conflict went to-and-fro for a week and a half until a cease-fire was negotiated. The cease-fire was signed in Georgia and Russia on 15th and 16th August respectively. Russian troops were still withdrawing weeks later but fighting was pretty much over. Who are the NWO. I know it means New World Order - I mean identify them. You claim to know their motives so you must know who they are. How would a regional conflict in the former USSR "start a WWIII scenario"? And why would that be useful to anyone?
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Do keep in mind that the Bendix Corporation did get a hold of the Clem engine, and had one running continuously underground (to verify it wasn't fueling itself) for many days, producing a continuous 350HP as Clem said it would do. That is an example of an invention (free energy) proven. Of course, so is the MIT Plasma reactor that produced TONS of excess energy, then was subsequently destroyed by MIT soon thereafter and covered up.
Please supply specific references to both of these claims. Why would you need to bury an engine underground to test it wasn't "fueling itself" and for that matter, what does "fueling itself" actually mean? Surely just putting the engine in a closed test cell where it's not connected to any external sources of energy would do. And why isn't Bendix Corporation now insanely rich because of this amazing technology. And if the technology has been suppressed, by who and (most importantly) why?
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As a prime example, not one person has ever been able to explain to me how Kozyrev's experiments on Torsion waves have been able to be reproduced time and time again (in fact, you can do them yourself with the right instruments), yet nobody has an answer except for him and those who follow the Aetheric/Torsion Wave sciences.
Last question. Please supply some more references to these experiments that are apparently so easily repeatable. Not David Wilcox - a credible source which isn't pushing a free-energy, cosmic harmonic aether torsion magic line of bull.

Lanson, unless there's some amazing revelation and/or real answers in any of your following posts, I doubt I'll continue replying. You agreed with Milo when he quoted your statement "but I do feel that we as a society are being taught memorization, and not methods of discovery and understanding" but you aren't really applying it yourself. You're shutting out 99.99% of existing knowledge and relying on a very small amount of fringe material, the bulk of which has just been copied and re-copied from one site to another many times (and distorted along the way). You pose questions that you don't want to hear the real answers to and you point to various global conspiracies that inexplicably suppress all of this important ancient lost knowledge. The conspiracy theory community is a self-feeding organism that grows in response to attack so it's hard to suppress the continuing distribution of misinformation and just outright fabrications and lies to the gullible and susceptible.

I wish you good luck (you're going to need it) and good health. If you really are here in 2 years to tell me "I told you so" I will be nothing short of amazed but I'm happy to accept the challenge. See you in November 2010. Seriously.

Best regards,

Dominic


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:04 pm 
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OzGecko wrote:
Lanson, unless there's some amazing revelation and/or real answers in any of your following posts, I doubt I'll continue replying. You're shutting out 99.99% of existing knowledge and relying on a very small amount of fringe material, the bulk of which has just been copied and re-copied from one site to another many times (and distorted along the way). The conspiracy theory community is a self-feeding organism that grows in response to attack so it's hard to suppress the continuing distribution of misinformation and just outright fabrications and lies to the gullible and susceptible.

Well put. I want to understand and see this new stuff but all I hear are words and endless reasons/excuses as why the machines can't/won't be built. If and when the excuses stop, then maybe we can have an intelligent discourse. I, too, will stop commenting because it's clear we aren't the ones who are close-minded.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:29 pm 
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KB58 wrote:
OzGecko wrote:
Lanson, unless there's some amazing revelation and/or real answers in any of your following posts, I doubt I'll continue replying. You're shutting out 99.99% of existing knowledge and relying on a very small amount of fringe material, the bulk of which has just been copied and re-copied from one site to another many times (and distorted along the way). The conspiracy theory community is a self-feeding organism that grows in response to attack so it's hard to suppress the continuing distribution of misinformation and just outright fabrications and lies to the gullible and susceptible.

Well put. I want to understand and see this new stuff but all I hear are words and endless reasons/excuses as why the machines can't/won't be built. If and when the excuses stop, then maybe we can have an intelligent discourse. I, too, will stop commenting because it's clear we aren't the ones who are close-minded.

This may sound like a "me too", but I also decided last night to not continue this fruitless discussion until hard data is presented.

_________________
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Completed building GSXR1000 CMC7, "Locouki"
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:47 pm 
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I'll do my best to answer each and every question the best I can.

The thing about Truth is that it either is there, or it isn't. And, when my Grandfather, a servant of the military (his official service was as a Nuclear trigger wireman...yes he set the fuse for the first bombs tested in the Nevada desert), and a generally great man. I've said it before, I will not tolerate someone who calls me a liar regarding information directly from a member of my family, especially one who is as straight-faced honest as him.


Now, let me do my best with the questions in red. I'm not avoiding anything. I just can't answer it all, and I don't have all the answers either. I'm not capable of giving you any more than what I've read, studied, and found out on my own through direct sources (as mentioned with my Grandfather is a direct source.) Please keep in mind that I also work for a living, so I'm only able to post when there is a lull in the business flow, or if I'm waiting for a client to call me back. I'm sure that if I were retired or unable to work, I'd be able to focus more intently on each and every question, and be able to conduct research to validate. I'm sorry for not being able to do that, but we all have lives outside of this Forum.

Firstly, I'd like to say that if you are reading the Ra material, it is very, very easy to get lost in it. Ra speaks in an extremely technical, unorthodox way (though it is consistent as it gets.) If a raving lunatic is capable of several years of steady contact without breaking character once, then hats off to them. The Ra material has been used as a teaching aid for years now to those that seek the Truth, but some just have their blinders on (and that is their exercise of the Law of Freewill, though I believe it is a misguided decision.) To help with the study of Ra, you can use a study guide or there is also a Wiki to help people along: http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=36 Direct link to the study guide.

Secondly, let's go after some of those red posts I'm going to italicize your red posts, and answer after, the best I can.


How is that at odds with what I've already said several times already - eventually the Earth will crash into the Sun but not for a long time yet.
My point to the Earth orbit issue is that the numbers are wrong if you use accurate mass. What I see is that since we DO orbit currently, we were able to figure out the mass of the Sun, and the Earth. Simple calculations, relatively. However, it is an incorrect formula because we solved for "X", not "Y", to use the term. What I mean by that is that because we orbit, we were able to solve for Mass. The problem with that is that I believe this is flawed fundamentally, that we don't know the mass, and we only know the orbit at this particular time. It is based on an assumption, not a proven truth. This is my stance on this issue.


is that the "horrible inaccuracies" you mean? I'm referring to the above-mentioned way that there was an initial assumption created by using current orbit understandings. You can not solve an equation without the right information. GIGO, for computer guys.



Please list references (reputable ones) that give details on Ramanujan's "channeling/lucid dreaming". Actually, this one is quite easy. Mr. Ramanujan's own notes and Dr. Michio Kaku's book Hyperspace explains in how this information came about. It isn't secret, it just wasn't studied or scrutinized. You said it yourself, he had flashes of insight. Those flashes came from vivid, lucid dreaming (or waking dreaming, if you prefer.) This is likely what killed him, because in order to continuously tap into a higher vibrational understanding known to your True Self. Doing this regularly without maintaining a healthy body has been known to be extremely detrimental to your health. This is true for all channelers of information...they must adapt their diet and habits to coincide with their higher vibrations or suffer greatly from it. The EXACT same thing happened to Edgar Cayce, for example. BTW, I made an error slightly here. This man is the founding father of the general idea and math of String Theory, from what I have understood. His original math is actually very, very close to what is really happening, except for some reason he added extra dimensions (to apparently balance things out!) However the 8 dimensions he factored are actually correct, when you figure how an Octave works (the bottom note is the end of one Octave, the beginning of another.)







If the B2 has anti-grav, why did they bother with those complicated wings and all that stuff?
This one is tough since there is no hard data coming from the plane manufacturer, nor any military personnel connected directly to the case. However, if you recall JUST before 9/11, there was a committee that was approved by the President, VP, and surprisingly the military that had a simple plan...that is to tell the world about the reality of UFO's. It is known as the Disclosure Project. They actually held an amazing conference just around that time, with tons of factual data and proof to inform the public. It couldn't have come at a worse time, of course, but that's the nature of luck I suppose. At any rate, one of the founders of this project is Dr. Richard Boylan. From his own account, directly:
http://www.drboylan.com/waregrv2.html Now, this information coincides directly with why my direct contact has told me. I mean, if you see something hovering motionlessly in front of your very eyes while working on a nuclear project, I'd say that is a good testament of the truth.



Who are the NWO. I know it means New World Order - I mean identify them. You claim to know their motives so you must know who they are. How would a regional conflict in the former USSR "start a WWIII scenario"? And why would that be useful to anyone?
For the same reason WWI and WWII started, precisely. World agendas aren't exactly hidden from view in the past-tense. There are books directly from the actual people who dared to create these wars, from the Rothschilds' own accounts and from the members of the CFR (Rockefeller, as an example) who wrote in their own journals and actually published actual information for their members their actual agenda.
It is all too easy to file this information as "Conspiracy crap", but you are doing yourself a great disservice because the information can easily be READ by your own eyes in plain view. I don't know how much easier it can be than to read direct information from the people trying to create the turmoil.
Direct link to info : http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2871.htm
The attempt at starting a huge fiasco (perhaps the beginning of WWIII) was thwarted because it MUST be prevented. Our visitors make sure of this, silently.





Please supply specific references to both of these claims.
MIT Plasma reactor - I must correct myself here, it is known as the MIT Plasmatron. Youtube video of device: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3kueRyzvlY
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2003/plasmatron-1022.html
I do not have a substantiated reference to its destruction, but I do recall reading it years ago. Certainly, there are no plasmatrons on my vehicle today. The reason the Plasmatron is technically a free-energy device? Water for all intents and purposes, is Free. So are waste products. It doesn't work like a conventional magnet motor or some other perpetual mobile device, but it does solve the fossil fuel problem. It is also a permutation, perhaps a direct "plagiarized" copy of the GEET Pantone system.

For the Clem engine, all I have is what Rex Research shows as factual evidence. It is hard to prove any more then that other then to show up at Bendix and ask about it. http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/KEELYNET/ENERGY/clem1.asc http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem2.htm Additional research found this, which seems to straighten the issue up a bit: http://www.mail-archive.com/interact@li ... 00107.html


The Kozyrev experiments are actually published everywhere on the web, and in fact in Libraries for you to read directly. At one point, I had a book discussing these experiments, but this was almost a decade ago and I wish I still had a reference. Sorry. At any rate, here's some links to solidify the claim:
http://web.mac.com/jeffreymilburn/iWeb/ ... es%20.html
http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/05/koz ... orsio.html
http://www.univer.omsk.su/omsk/Sci/Kozyrev/main.htm
Lastly, lets not forget the dude is Russian. If someone speaks russian or has a quality translator, let them google the hell out of the guy, and share with us.



Lastly, let me share this:

The information I'm sharing is my free-will, and it is your free-will to listen, or to shut it out. That is the entire principle of the universe, one of the fundamental laws is that we must be free. Our founding fathers knew this, and I'm sure you do too. The thing is, and you mentioned it quite well, a lot of things are "distorted." Ra mentions this, Seth mentions this, and so do you. I think you've got a lot more in common with this information then you think.

Don't worry, I'll still be here in 2 years. I figure it will take me that long to build my car. The reason I picked two years is because at that point, we'll have had many changes in our consciousness as a whole, and a lot of the points I've made will become more clear to the masses. Not everybody will "graduate", and there will be some who end up on the negative path, but in the end all will be revealed as it is, not as someone would want you to believe. Religion, culture, mysticism, etc. all have bits and pieces of the ancient truth, if you choose to pay attention.

To those who wonder how the heck I am at this level of understanding (and perhaps want to be), I recommend you initiate yourself to a simple meditation routine, take meaningful martial arts classes (with a sensei that is rooted in peace, not fighting), read all you can of the info I've shown (simply read, you don't have to believe, it isn't important until you feel it is), and perhaps visit some holy places, like the Mayan ruins, and the Egyptian pyramids. The energy contained in those areas will elevate your vibration, if you let it, and make it easier for your answers to come. I personally wish to visit these places very soon. Avoid taking in contaminants like drugs and alcohol, since they can't do much to raise your vibration at all (even psychedelics, though they can "short-cut" the enlightenment process through visionary discovery, should be avoided.) I am not where I want to be, yet, but I feel more and more connected each day and I feel more confident that we're in for a fantastic change in just a few years. I think you'll find yourself, if you let yourself that is, become more and more tuned in as well, as our solar system crosses a higher density of aetheric energy in a short period of time.

You'll probably notice the Earth warm up (it warms from within), the skies get much more turbulent and active, the natural disasters get more and more prevalent, and the "buzz" of the world get stronger and stronger for a couple more years. We've already witnessed many of these increases in their beginnings, and science has no answers except to say that somehow CO2 emissions cause it (HA!) If that were the case, why are ALL the planets getting warmer by exactly the same measurements?

_________________
Old car restoration experts, help me out. I've got a 1977 Capri that will need some serious attention. Pics of the restoration project http://1977caprirestoration.shutterfly.com


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:44 pm 
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While you're obviously happy in your beliefs and the evidence you have found to support them, and will likely not change your mind regardless of the beliefs of others...I beg you to at least philosophically reconsider your attitude about the 'truth' you believe to have found, in regards to that of others. As you are trying to open other peoples minds to accept your ideas, many of who will inevitably be very closed minded to your ideas (since yours are so far different from their own) in the first place, you show a notable closed mindedness to their ideas. Not only that, you also repeatedly show a distinct note of superiority in your dialogue (intentional or not) that will more often than not further close peoples minds rather than open them to what you have to say. If you intend to have others be open to understanding your ideas, you must first be open to understanding their ideas. Otherwise you're not trying to foster an exchange of ideas, but rather just using a fight as an attention grabbing medium. Generally you seem to be equally dismissive of others ideas, as is only be expected they would be with yours being thrust in their face. Of particular note to me are your repeatedly using intentionally instigative outspoken comments known to cause heated and strong-headed replies, while tossing in remarks regards to your 'level of understanding' and other people coming 'to a more enlightened conclusion'. Every belief is fallible in at least one way or another, and no one is so omniscient as to be able to award the singular title of enlightened to any particular set of beliefs.

'Truth' as is known to man has continually changed with time, and as such there is as of yet no absolute truth for man. That single truth hasn't changes for many thousands of years, so I certainly don't expect it to in my lifetime. Many have seen enough proof to be certain in their minds that pure religion is the absolute 'truth'. Others have seen enough proof to be certain in their minds that pure science is the absolute 'truth'. And others yet have seen enough proof to be certain in their minds that some (variable) level of combined religion and science is 'truth'. Wheather your prophets include Jesus and Moses, Newton and Einstein, Ra and Seth, or all of the above...Quite simply, beliefs can be no more than a definition holds them to be: a conviction of the truth of some statement, or the reality of some being or phenomenon, especially when based on examination of evidence.

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"Orville Wright did not have a pilots license." - Gordon MacKenzie


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:05 pm 
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I gotta agree with driven. While you are perfectly entitled to your beliefs and opinions the manner in which you have chosen to share them is a bit condescending and dismissive. I've got to wonder what you hope to accomplish with this debate.
You clearly are not open to change, why then do you expect it of others. We are way off topic here. This is the "General Automotive Talk" forum. Let's talk about cars and give the philosophical debate a rest. Perpetuating this isn't going to do anything but generate more ill will amoung users and is hopelessly unproductive.

We may as well be debating what color we like best and why.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:26 am 
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Driven5 wrote:
While you're obviously happy in your beliefs and the evidence you have found to support them, and will likely not change your mind regardless of the beliefs of others...I beg you to at least philosophically reconsider your attitude about the 'truth' you believe to have found, in regards to that of others. As you are trying to open other peoples minds to accept your ideas, many of who will inevitably be very closed minded to your ideas (since yours are so far different from their own) in the first place, you show a notable closed mindedness to their ideas. Not only that, you also repeatedly show a distinct note of superiority in your dialogue (intentional or not) that will more often than not further close peoples minds rather than open them to what you have to say. If you intend to have others be open to understanding your ideas, you must first be open to understanding their ideas. Otherwise you're not trying to foster an exchange of ideas, but rather just using a fight as an attention grabbing medium. Generally you seem to be equally dismissive of others ideas, as is only be expected they would be with yours being thrust in their face. Of particular note to me are your repeatedly using intentionally instigative outspoken comments known to cause heated and strong-headed replies, while tossing in remarks regards to your 'level of understanding' and other people coming 'to a more enlightened conclusion'. Every belief is fallible in at least one way or another, and no one is so omniscient as to be able to award the singular title of enlightened to any particular set of beliefs.

'Truth' as is known to man has continually changed with time, and as such there is as of yet no absolute truth for man. That single truth hasn't changes for many thousands of years, so I certainly don't expect it to in my lifetime. Many have seen enough proof to be certain in their minds that pure religion is the absolute 'truth'. Others have seen enough proof to be certain in their minds that pure science is the absolute 'truth'. And others yet have seen enough proof to be certain in their minds that some (variable) level of combined religion and science is 'truth'. Wheather your prophets include Jesus and Moses, Newton and Einstein, Ra and Seth, or all of the above...Quite simply, beliefs can be no more than a definition holds them to be: a conviction of the truth of some statement, or the reality of some being or phenomenon, especially when based on examination of evidence.




I am extremely open-minded, and I consider all things. However, upon considering many of the things brought up in this post, I have decided to stick with what I know. Why? Because, the proof of aetherics is as obvious as it gets. You can perform experiment after experiment and prove it for yourself, and solve your own dilemma with it. You can open your mind to the solid fact that Einstein himself said that his theory of space-time simply does not work without an Aether to work in. I get frustrated because I hear someone saying, "Hey, show me a scientist who can prove your theory", and I give, what, 5 or more so far, and each and every time I hear "Heh, they're crazy!" The only experiment ever conducted that supposedly disproved Aether was the infamous M-M experiment. In this, their intent was not to disprove, but to measure its properties. Because their instruments are as affected in the experiment as the air they were trying to test, their data was flawed and always will be. If, by some measure of silliness, we suddenly throw out literally thousands of years of research, knowledge, and proof of a certain model because of one flawed experiment,...how insane is that?


I get upset when people try to scoff or tear down certain scientists, but hold up on a pedestal others. We are equal, they are equal, end of story. Some contribute more to the cause than others, but they should all carry equal weight. WE should all carry equal weight.


And Chet, I agree with you 100%, but philosphy is everywhere, and in this case we aren't even talking about philosophy, we're talking about a perception of reality vs. experiments that have been flawed from the start. Further, this particular post brought up an Air car, which sounds fundamentally like a bad idea from some POV's...but it isn't. Further, the validity of free energy came up, and this is where it gets sticky. Sure, not many people have made one, but there have been some. Understanding the actual reason how one could work (hence the understanding of the correct model of the Universe) is the key to making a project like this actually work.

As a final exhibit, I submit the works of Dr. Depalma. His research into the field has been one of the biggest advancements into the reality of Aether, and ways to prove it. His spinning object experiment ends the argument, yet most scientists scoff at it (why...I have no idea.)


I'll stop, but I recommend we revisit this in about 2 years time, when I predict that great changes will have modified most people's viewpoint to exactly what I have been trying to say.


I'm not here to change your mind, but open it. And by choice, as it is your choice to read and post back, of course.

_________________
Old car restoration experts, help me out. I've got a 1977 Capri that will need some serious attention. Pics of the restoration project http://1977caprirestoration.shutterfly.com


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:34 am 
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And to any I've offended, it wasn't intentional and I intend no harm, ever. I'm a peaceful person and I do my best to stay calm and collected.

However, at one point or another, the temperature of a discussion is going to come up, especially when the status quo is in question. Yes, I know this, and I am prepared for it. I also try to match and mirror the tone and feel of any post to me, and as you can tell in previous posts, a lot of tone was applied towards me and I simply reflected that back.

I don't believe I ever misspoke to anyone in the group in a condescending tone towards their intellectual self or to their ego, other then to post evidence as requested, at least as much as I could given the time I have to do such things.

_________________
Old car restoration experts, help me out. I've got a 1977 Capri that will need some serious attention. Pics of the restoration project http://1977caprirestoration.shutterfly.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:47 am 
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fourthmeal wrote:
<snip>

And Chet, I agree with you 100%, but philosphy is everywhere, and in this case we aren't even talking about philosophy, we're talking about a perception of reality vs. experiments that have been flawed from the start. <snip>


This is what Driven and I are talking about. You suggest that I'm too dense to recognize a philosophical discussion when I see it. That isn't a bit condescending? :roll:
Quote:
phi⋅los⋅o⋅phy   /fɪˈlɒsəfi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fi-los-uh-fee] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -phies. 1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:26 am 
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No, that's not at all what I said (or what I meant.)

I was saying that philosophy shouldn't come up in this at all. I don't think we're dealing with a shred of it. Perhaps I understand it differently, but I equate philosophy with, say, who should be President, and why.

What I believe we were dealing with was a veritable discussion of reality, and the ways to prove it. I believe that science is our reality, and it is important to have the right one.


You're not dense! I'm just not great at explaining complex things sometimes. Unless it has to do with car audio or home theater, or perhaps explaining an automotive repair solution.

_________________
Old car restoration experts, help me out. I've got a 1977 Capri that will need some serious attention. Pics of the restoration project http://1977caprirestoration.shutterfly.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:42 am 
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fourthmeal wrote:
No, that's not at all what I said (or what I meant.)

I was saying that philosophy shouldn't come up in this at all. I don't think we're dealing with a shred of it. Perhaps I understand it differently, but I equate philosophy with, say, who should be President, and why.

What I believe we were dealing with was a veritable discussion of reality, and the ways to prove it.
I believe that science is our reality, and it is important to have the right one.


You're not dense! I'm just not great at explaining complex things sometimes. Unless it has to do with car audio or home theater, or perhaps explaining an automotive repair solution.

Did you see the dictionary definition of the word "philosphy" I included below my last post?

Here it is again:
Quote:
phi⋅los⋅o⋅phy   /fɪˈlɒsəfi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fi-los-uh-fee] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -phies. 1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.


You say this is "a veritable discussion of reality, and the ways to prove it," but tell me I'm wrong to label it philosophy which the dictionary defines "the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge or conduct."

The dictionary definition seems to me to support my statement, but to avoid being wrong you change the definition to suit your needs. With tactics like that you can never be wrong. :lol:

I guess I'm learning like others before me in this thread that it's pointless to discuss any of this with you. I'm done.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:44 am 
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This is degrading hard into a Syntax argument.

Fourthmeal, you've made some points, and endeavored to reference material which you have found sufficient to convince you of your points. That is totally valid.

It is equally valid that others would not be convinced by said materials. In fact you make that statement.

chetcpo, you are not convinced, and understandably so. In a discussion on Truth there will be as many strong solid opinions as there are people.

I don't think that fourthmeal intended any condensation, I just think he is excited about something that changed his life, and in his enthusiasm some of his statements were made without being as well constructed as they could have been. I am guilty of that on a daily basis.

We may not believe each others ideas, or understand them, and it's never easy to communicate with people about things that aren't tangible. Syntax and language always get in the way. I used to have very long discussions with my old roommate where we would end by realizing that either my misunderstanding or misuses of words, or his, caused most of the miscommunication.

I think however that this forum is, in a very refreshing way, void of almost all disrespect, trolling, and flaming. I think it's that way because the people on the board would rather see others succeed in their projects than tell them why their own projects are superior. I think in general that is the way each of us would approach our lives and others lives. I think fourthmeal's statements were well intended in the vein of helping others. If you don't feel helped, or interested than that is just fine. I am very happy with the way that I view the world, my view constantly changes, and well intentioned discorse will always help improve me, including chetcpo, driven, and others desire to "get the facts." That scrutiny is that anvil which forms our opinions, beliefs, and lives.

Lets end this on a high note, I swear that fourthmeal has not hacked my account, or my brain. Although I am certain some of you would call me a kook if you knew my beliefs! :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:30 am 
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Oh dear lord make it stop. I keep coming to this section hoping for something different and its this dang post time and time again.

Well at least we got a giant nascar wind tunnel minus the tunnel thingy......... :roll:

I vote lock this damn thread and delete anything that pops up as a "continuation" of it. Explain its gone too far off topic and needs to end.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:52 am 
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fourthmeal wrote:
I am extremely open-minded, and I consider all things. However, upon considering many of the things brought up in this post, I have decided to stick with what I know. Why? Because, the proof of aetherics is as obvious as it gets. You can perform experiment after experiment and prove it for yourself, and solve your own dilemma with it. You can open your mind to the solid fact that Einstein himself said that his theory of space-time simply does not work without an Aether to work in. I get frustrated because I hear someone saying, "Hey, show me a scientist who can prove your theory", and I give, what, 5 or more so far, and each and every time I hear "Heh, they're crazy!"
I said I wouldn't reply anymore and I know that I'm wasting my time but hey, I'm on my lunch break. Einstein's theory of special relativity specifically discarded the idea of an Aether, not required it. In an address 15 years later (titled "Ether and the Theory of Relativity" - text here http://www.tu-harburg.de/rzt/rzt/it/Ether.html) he made remarks that many seem to think reverse that. What he actually said was:
Albert Einstein wrote:
More careful reflection teaches us, however, that the special theory of relativity does not compel us to deny ether. We may assume the existence of an ether,; only we must give up ascribing a definite state of motion to it, i.e. we must by abstraction take from it the last mechanical characteristic which Lorentz had still left it. We shall see later that this point of view, the conceivability of which shall at once endeavour to make more intelligible by a somewhat halting comparison, is justified by the results of the general theory of relativity.
This is followed by an analogy about measuring the movement of floating objects and what can thus be derived about treating water as a medium, leading to this:
Albert Einstein wrote:
The special theory of relativity forbids us to assume the ether to consist of particles observable through time, but the hypothesis of ether in itself is not in conflict with the special theory of relativity. Only we must be on our guard against ascribing a state of motion to the ether.
What he said was that while the SToR didn't conflict with an aether theory, you cannot treat the aether as a movable medium, which blots out a lot of the traditional properties ascribed to Aether. He goes on to say
Albert Einstein wrote:
But on the other hand there is a weighty argument to be adduced in favour of the ether hypothesis. To deny the ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities whatever. .....[snip].....Of course it would be a great advance if we could succeed in comprehending the gravitational field and the electromagnetic field together as one unified conformation. Then for the first time the epoch of theoretical physics founded by Faraday and Maxwell would reach a satisfactory conclusion. The contrast between ether and matter would fade away, and, through the general theory of relativity, the whole of physics would become a complete system of thought, like geometry, kinematics, and the theory of gravitation.
The bold is my emphasis. My reading of this is that Einstein is allowing the concept of an Aether but more as a theoretical stepping stone to get to a unified theorem which would link the structure and behaviour of space and matter into a common frame.

Quote:
The only experiment ever conducted that supposedly disproved Aether was the infamous M-M experiment. In this, their intent was not to disprove, but to measure its properties. Because their instruments are as affected in the experiment as the air they were trying to test, their data was flawed and always will be. If, by some measure of silliness, we suddenly throw out literally thousands of years of research, knowledge, and proof of a certain model because of one flawed experiment,...how insane is that?

Really? What about the Trouton–Noble experiment, Trouton–Rankine experiment, Hammar experiment? See http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html for a wide discourse on experiments in this area. Michelson-Morley was just the first of many experiments to disprove the existence of the Aether. Your "explanation" of why the experiment is "flawed" reveals that you really don't understand how the experiment works and what it was measuring, so I suspect you're just regurgitating someone else's inaccurate claims.

Lanson, really, stop accepting everything the Keelynet etc websites feed you and do some actual research of your own, independently of the whole cosmic vibrational harmonics community.

Quote:
As a final exhibit, I submit the works of Dr. Depalma. His research into the field has been one of the biggest advancements into the reality of Aether, and ways to prove it. His spinning object experiment ends the argument, yet most scientists scoff at it (why...I have no idea.)
Perhaps because when his completed N-machine was tested in 1997/98 it demonstrated no over-unity behaviour.
Quote:
I'll stop, but I recommend we revisit this in about 2 years time, when I predict that great changes will have modified most people's viewpoint to exactly what I have been trying to say.
I said it before and I'll say it again - I look forward to it. I've (seriously) put it in my diary.


Dominic


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:10 pm 
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Look, I'm OK with locking it if you want to, but I see no harm in havin a discussion, provided it doesn't dissolve into a fighting match. I feel no harm has been done by expressing opinions (of which, Chetpo has proven they are indeed philosophical by its very definition, so I learned something there), and I hope that nobody feels hurt by them either.


First, am I the only one that mimics Einstein's voice when I read his work? I feel compelled to!

Second, I was talking about Einstein's greatest theory, the theory of Everything. Sure, it was never finished officially, but in it he concedes that there must be a non-physical fluid that flows in the vacuum, which is the whole concept of it all.

When I was bringing up Mr. DePalma, I was specifically talking about the spinning ball experiment. It showed the obvious point I've been making since the first post. Further, a Japanese experiment proved the same thing. The proof is that an object rotating very fast ~10,000RPM like a gyroscope actually weighs less than an object that is still. This is ground-breaking, but most people pass it off as nothing at all.

My question, regardless of where it comes from, is why the heck do most scientists and physicists bother trying to use a Particle Theory when String Theory (which is almost 100% correct), and EM theories show that it simply cannot be true? Too many experiments to show particles, which they never have actually seen, yet we're all drawn to that conclusion?


I probably should mention at this point that I strongly believe in mind over matter, or more properly I should say that I believe that the mind can control the properties of aether. Experiment after experiment has shown that there is a consciousness within everything, but again we invalidate those certain experiments (too ground-breaking??) One simple example is that of the Skin Galvanic Response experiments done with cheek cells from a patient. Check that one out sometime. Another interesting experiment is those conducted with plants, where they would show signs of physical shock when they were threatened mentally. If I remember right (and I should do some checking on this), the inventor of this lie-detector graph device is the one doing the experiment. Even he was flabbergasted, this I remember.


At any rate, I feel that this isn't hurting anyone, and may actually open up some powerful discussions. Yeah, it can get heated but that's inevitable talking about anything, these days. I'm sure more Political threads have been locked than just about any other kind in the past 6 months or so. This thread can go any way we let it, but I don't feel it is negative.

I'll do my best to provide evidence to the claims, but I don't feel that the source should be judged on what community it serves. Proof is proof. I get miffed a bit when someone says that a Russian source of information is invalid. We're all equal, damnit.

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