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Part II Criticism
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Marlenes daughter would have made more sense, and the player base would have been more invested in that arch. If you played as Joel, then Marlenes daughter, then Ellie. Imagine Ellie finding out Joel killed her mother straight from her mouth. They spent so long making the storyline, and butchered the hell out of it
I had already seen this concept being thought out in a whole reddit post, and most people agreed it was a WAAAAY better plot. We viewers can actually empathize with Marlene much more than we could with ZebraJerry. Even in her flashback sequence, Marlene isn't sure she wants to go through with it.
Would've been even crazier if Ellie and Marlene's daughter already knew each other a bit.
Yeah, Marlene is the one person in the Fireflies in the ending that I actually have any sympathy for. Her collectibles indicate that half of the reason she goes along with the surgery is because she expects a mutiny if she doesn't, and that she's heavily burdened by the weight of having failed the Fireflies so far.
There's also the fact that she tries twice to reason with Joel. And even though she lashes out at him when it fails the first time, she tries again - even lowering her gun when she does. She may teetering on the edge of desperate, ruthless fanaticism, but she hasn't fallen over it yet. The other Fireflies were like "lol hey let's kill the smuggler now", but she still had her humanity.
And sure, Part II shows that Jerry does as well, but they only have five minutes to build him up from scratch - making them choose the manipulative shortcut of "OH LOOK AT HIM HE SAVES ZEBRAS WHAT A HERO" which just falls flat for so many people.
Tbh the game definitely would’ve been way better had it been a full circle revenge story with that much Umph. Because yeah I definitely did feel bad for Marlene and if it had been her daughter or hell even a sister or something of the sorts getting revenge and Ellie knew the person when it came to the time for Joel to get the axe and then the whole dual story like they did with Ellie and Abby.
Yep.
I get that there's something to be said about Abby coming out of nowhere and being the daughter of a nameless NPC, but writing conventions exist for a reason - and trying to ignore them in that aspect only to tell a story that's mostly "REVENGE IS BAD" while using the lowest-hanging fruit of manipulative ways to make you sympathize with Abby just wastes the idea, anyway. Never even mind how much damage it does to the story since both Ellie and Abby go through the game killing hundreds of people without changing the fact that they're treated like nameless NPCs.
in general even as someone who likes the second game I do think something like this could have worked. I think the biggest issue that would require more changing is the likelihood that both Joel and Ellie would know who she was
Not sure if this answers your question, but Joel and Ellie both know who Marlene is to a degree, Marlene kept an eye on Ellie as she grew up from an orphanage. If Marlene had a daughter, it would have made one hell of a story regardless of how they handled it. Ellie spends part 1 trying to make it to Marlene and the fireflies, ultimately ending with Joel killing her, having Marlenes daughter finding Joel and Ellie would of been way more interesting compared to Abby. Finding out the man Ellie trusted killed the woman who wanted to create a cure with her gift, while also having Marlenes daughter seeking revenge, but also seeking Ellie for a cure, that would of been an amazing story
What i’m saying is there’s need to be some hoops for Ellie and Joel to both not know who Marlene’s daughter is given both of their connections to her. Which would change what would need to happen.
I do however, not think this community would have had a different reaction to the story if that was it versus what we got. Realistically the actual characterization of Abby wouldn’t change regardless of whose daughter she is. The first game obviously spends more time with Marlene but does that for some reason change what Abby’s motivation would be? Not really. The only reason it really matters is for some reason some people assume Jerry should have been a cardboard cut out evil guy. But if you think revenge for Marlene is justified there’s no real reason you shouldn’t assume the same thing for Jerry.
That would have actually been bad ass and very understandable. Joel did "her mom dirty"🙃
Probably for the best they didn’t go that route. Any hate she gets would just be dismissed as racism.
It's already dismissed as sexism. Not much would change.
But now it would be both.
Yes....
Druckmann already included a "strong black woman" in Uncharted 4 and having ALREADY checked that off the list.... he no longer needed a black woman character (for TLOU2) and it allowed him to cast the white motion capture Actress for Abby, to which people at Naughty Dog said in interviews..."Oh he has a thing for her" or something..... then she gets sex scened by a druckmann "self insert"... Weird? WEIRD
"Duckman" LOL
Whaaaaa? Druckman a racist? But he's too woke to be... Riiiiight?
I've heard Abby wasn non-white in the original concepts of The Last of Us Part 2, if this is true perhaps making her like this would such such issue.
She kinda looks like she's Latino in the original concept art
So that would mean she would be half black and half latina instead? You know, like Miles Morales.
Yes you can find a post about this on this very sub. Abby was originally black, and she actually looked pretty back then. (Now she's an abomination. They did you dirty Abby)
See what I mean about this being a circlejerk
I think the randomness of the doctor being an unknown to Joel and that led to his death was the angle they were going for. Marlene’s daughter or any main person from the first game would of made more sense but imo wouldn’t fit. We got one of the greatest heroines in gaming history with Abby and those seductive arms.
You're hilarious. When's the comedy tour? I want tickets.
I think the randomness of the doctor being an unknown to Joel and that led to his death was the angle they were going for. Marlene’s daughter or any main person from the first game would of made more sense but imo wouldn’t fit. We got one of the greatest heroines in gaming history with Abby and those seductive arms.
Holy fucking shit can y'all stop saying it's a black man? He's clearly just a dirty white man.