This subreddit is for Reddit's Druid community. Here we focus on Druidism as a philosophy, religion, way of life, and heritage.
The mods locked down a post about the The Druid Path by JMG with out explanation. I think there was the beginnings of some interesting discussion there about how we look at political view as it relates to authors and teachers. I don't see any rules against talking a little politics and it is certainly relevant. After all politics is ethics applied to the state and or religious/spiritual path will necessarily effect our ethics. I've been reading JMG since the Peak Oil days of the Archdruid Report and I'd like to share my take.
-
Calling him MAGA and a trumpist is plainly inaccurate. He wrote a book describing the magical aspect of the Trump phenomenon, and maintains that Trump campaign is more magically savvy in general than the Democrats.
-
While he is plainly a more conservative political thinker than I am he is not a leftist caricature of a conservative. I see no support of racism, homophobia, etc. in his writing. I find value in reading a different take on thing than I generally get from my peer group and the news media I typically partake in. In particular he describes how the democrats have trended more and more to the upper middle professional classes and benefit them more than society as a whole.
Sort by:
Best
Open comment sort options
Best
Top
New
Controversial
Old
Q&A
What does “magically savvy” mean here? An intentional use of magik?
Something along the lines of more effective or skilled with magic.
Is he saying Trump is a witch or Druid? INTENTIONALLY practicing magik?
Do you think that only a witch or Druid can manipulate energies? A priest or nun fervently praying is doing magic. At least in my book. And while they may not be trained, there’s more of them than of us.
No, actually. That’s why I am asking for clarification. I want to know if the author is claiming that Trump consciously, intentionally, with forethought is using magik. I thought it was a concise, clear question and have yet to get a direct answer.
That’s a damn good question
He says magic is being used often by people generally. Leadership can be particularly magickal. He is no trumpster.
The dude is a skilled occultist and has a fountain of wisdom on druidry. He writes great instruction manuals for these topics, but clearly he isn't good at everything and it isn't healthy to expect him to be.
Want an astrology reading? JMG is your guy. You want a take on politics that transcends the circus of the American political system? Read Plato. Read Aristotle. These guys are the legends, and they actually have something real to say about humanity and politics. Not specifics about stupid divisive issues that drive our media-political machine, but philosophical guidance on being a healthy political citizen, participating in society and being okay with that, no matter what political clown got elected.
JMG acts like he's above it, but just read the dude's blog, he's deep in the muk of teamsport politics, and that bores me. He's got a lot of shadow work to do in this regard, and that's fine, we're just apes playing with divine fire, after all.
As you stated, politics are ethics applied to the state.. and so if one, at this point in history, is supporting Trump or his candidacy, or voting for him, or any MAGA politician, then they absolutely support homophobia transphobia racism on and on. Bc that’s part of the platform.
Not to mention the support he gets from Christian Nationalists, most of whom would consider us Satan worshipers.
As a Christian druid its painful to see how blindly a lot of so called Christians follow him. Even after he tear gassed a priest just so he could beat back a mob and take a photoshoot on said priests church grounds. During which he held the Bible upside down and backwards. Anyone else did that the fundamentalists would be screaming that they are the anti-christ.
How is that part of the platform? I see racism on both sides of the aisle. I’ve seen Biden’s “if you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black,” “I don’t want my kids growing up in a racial jungle” types of remarks, and the leftist notion that black people can’t work computers or get ID’s.
I’ve always been against the anti-LGBT hatred of right-wing politicians, but I don’t recall Trump being anti-LGBT? He actually goes down as the first president to enter office supporting gay marriage.
The more Biden’s presidency has gotten us into wars and destroyed the economy, the more I’ve watched pro-Trump youtubers, and I have seen irrefutable evidence that the media DID outright lie and manipulate footage to make him look worse than he already was.
I’m just curious, what makes his platform obviously racist, anti-LGBT, etc.? Like what did he do/say to earn that?
A. The economy is not destroyed (???) B. I have never met a person who thought that POC couldn’t work a computer, on either side of the aisle so to speak. IDK where you’re hanging out but I’d get a new group of friends.
C. I think you’ve drunk the kool aid with the YouTube stuff so I wish you all the best but you should shut down the YouTube. FR.
Not sure who this fellow is, but Trump is without a doubt terrible for the environment and natural world so I'll be voting for anyone other than him.
Is this due to his pro-corporate stances that support growth over sustainability? I’m trying to look at politics through the lens of my druidism, and make that a more active part of how I see the world. Who would you vote for in the upcoming election, if you don’t mind me asking?
Well, every American politician is pro-corporate. I think the most recent example as far as Trump is concerned is yesterday's promise of his to scrap offshore windfarms day one of presidency. He's quite nearly purposefully anti-environemental. He also pulled the US out of the Paris accords almost immediately last time he was elected.
I'll probably vote for Kennedy Jr. assuming the media doesn't blackball him out of public discourse and kill any chance he has, as has been the case in the past with promising candidates that didn't fit the status quo. Biden has at least tried to better things in the face of climate change, but I honestly worry about his mind slipping.
There is ample evidence that JMG is expressing homophobic, transphobic, and racist views. Here are some examples:
He is friendly towards people who advocate for white separatism.
"the current fad for gender surgeries for children" (actual JMG quote).
He agrees with transphobic views. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3, Link 4
"woke propaganda" (another JMG quote}
"why occult philosophy contradicts woke ideology" (another actual JMG quote)
"the woke brigade"
There is more... way more. Simply search his blog comments for keywords such as "transgender", "surgery", "woke", "SJW", "CRT", "racism", "Q anon", and more.
This was all less than 15 minutes of searching.
Come on, you can't expect people to put a whole few minutes into researching things that might prove them wrong!
Took the time to read one of the linked examples thoroughly as people are suggesting, and in a response agreeing with someone sharing a transphobic point of view, he referred to gender-affirming surgery as "mutilation", which is a main talking point used by the right in their attempts to ban them altogether.
To take the entire quote, "I’ve been wondering, all through the current fad for gender surgeries for children, what happened to all the yelling about genital mutilation a few years ago. So it’s bad for Muslims in the third world to mutilate their children’s genitals, but it’s okay for middle class American atheists to have the medical profession do it?"
That's a very open bad-faith argument, equating things that had no reason to be equated (the argument against circumcision vs gender-affirming surgery, which have never been connected) to make a point. And it's not a good point, either - it automatically assumes that if it's actually happening parents are doing this against children's wishes, without their consent. Which is, as should be obvious, illegal. So it's not even happening nor worth discussing in the way he brings it up.
Unless I'm missing sarcasm, that is, in fact, transphobia. Clear cut. If he didn't want it to come across as transphobia, then he should take the time to think his words through better and make his points clearer.
This tbh sounds like yet another reactionary fool getting caught up in their emotions upon seeing socially transitioned kids and letting medical assumptions run rampant. Very disappointing from someone that's such a prominent thought leader for a religious / spiritual movement that leans very strongly towards progressive.
I get it. Radical change we don't fully understand, especially when it involves children, is scary, and we as humans have an innate instinct to "protect the children." That's also why manipulative authoritarians always evoke fears around threats to our children to rally irrationally fervent support, and why we must be super extra careful to check ourselves whenever that crap starts getting stirred up around us.
That being said I'm sure there's a few instances of a genital surgery being performed too quickly and too young. In fact I know there's plenty of them - for intersex births to force them back into socially assigned cis-normative binaries, even when such a surgery is known to cause more medical complications than not. Where's the uproar on that? IME at least the LGBT+ community really is evolving the much needed nuance we're often panned for supposedly lacking, if you can actually engage us in good faith and leave all that Twatter-induced hostility behind that is.
The reactionary mind doesn't give itself time to even listen to the other side long enough to understand any of this though. It takes assumptions and treats them as facts, it takes rare and occasional extremist outliers and erects them as living strawmen to vilify the rest of the "other* who's "otherness" induced this irrational cycle of reactionary revulsion in the first place, justifying a reflexive disgust and hate you'd otherwise have a hard time squaring with an ego that sees itself as a "caring, compassionate person." And that's how you wind up with closed minded bigots, even among otherwise seeming intellectuals, or even self professed progressives at times.
Sigh
I'll be upfront, before I reply. I do think than in some cases JMG is a bit of a crank, certainly in his later years. However like others say, I'd be careful in what one does with that assessment.
I would argue this is exactly what JMG takes issue with. People's paint-by-numbers assessment of others. You find some keywords that makes someone cancellable, and then, without assessing the exact points, or inviting any debate, you do so because it's easy. Assessing people shouldn't be this easy. I know it's work to look at a post, and pick it apart, and figure out what the nuance is. The lack of this is the problem with the internet, and I believe one of his issues with what he calls "wokeism". That is, when you sit with the spectrum of The Left, and you let a mob say "this person is bad" without really understanding why. You don't get to form a counter-opinion to the mob and if you do you risk its wrath as well with little thought involved.
If the response is "well that's too much work". I'd say it *should* be work. Messing with someone's reputation shouldn't be something as easy as a potty break when the time it takes to establish that reputation has been in the span of decades.
It happens all the time, and I firmly believe that as Druids, it's essential that we get down and dirty into the details and flesh out why. I think he deserves at least that.
Yes, spend more time researching why white men are the REAL victims in America today. So worthwhile. Poor JMG! Has he sold out to the fossil fuel companies yet?
Comment deleted by user
Do you know the best way to stop people cherry-picking examples of you (the general you not you specifically) saying homophobic, transphobic, and racist things? It's to not say homophobic, transphobic, and racist things at all.
Comment deleted by user
I think that’s a good place to source some of his true feelings. That’s where he communicates with members of his community.
I’m glad I’m not the only one. I was not making the connection on those links. I was doubting my reading or awareness of the subject.
I regard the Buffalo terrorist attack, the El Paso terrorist attack, the Allen Texas mall terrorist attack (not to mention Christ Church NZ, Norway, etc) as white nationalist terrorism. JMG was amazed by the meme magic of “Kek”. I too believe it was real… but I wonder if the magic of “Kek” (2016-present?) correlates with the stochastic terrorism of this ideology? Stochastic terrorism is pretty magical: An invisible and seemingly random consequence of sowing the “airwaves” (social media) with bad seeds of white nationalism/supremacy. Is the reactionary rhetoric of Trump, Musk, Bannon, etc (eg. calling it “an invasion” of migrants) reaping terrorist attacks on brown skin minorities? Has 4chan become mainstream? Wouldn’t those brown skin minorities executed by terrorists be justified in having “TDS”? JMG mocks those with TDS but I can’t help but think he is only thinking of White MSNBC liberals, the ones who are merely offended by Trump, not the TRUE victims of “MAGA” ideology and ascendant white nationalism.
If you want to assess where JMG stands on sex and gender issues, then you need to roll up your sleeves and work your way through this: "On the Metaphysics of Sex".
Agreed. While I may not always be comfortable reading that sort of writing, that doesn't imply it should be disallowed or deplatformed, or that all its value is lost. That would be so even if someone created it and vocally supported political stances I disagreed with strongly. I find Trump's brand of politics abhorrent, but there are perfectly intelligent, good people in my life who have a different view. I don't understand that view, but that's beside the point.
If anything, seemingly knee-jerk reactions (of which we are all capable, at times, don't get me wrong) to apparent stances are fuelling unhelpful and divisive thinking. Nuance exists in everything, as hard as that might be to see.
I'm not American and I'm certainly not right-wing, but have watched, sometimes quite impressed, with how capably and amorally the right wing in my own country (the UK) has used manipulation tactics to get their way. The left has sometimes assumed that a more honest and transparent approach would win people over on certain subjects - which it did not. I'd imagine someone with a mind for political analysis could do some great work on Brexit and how to mobilise fear and uncertainty, slap a thin coat of 'hope'-coloured paint over it, sprinkle on some xenophobia and make a whole nation make a stupid decision all together. Like alchemy, if the Stone was a concretion of bad decisions.
I’ve met the man twice, his concern was over peak oil and catabolic societal collapse. He never in my presence mentioned race or homophobia or transphobia. Is he more conservative than me? Yup, I think so but I’ve read his blog posts (though not all of them) and don’t see any trumpism.
This could be a really interesting conversation about magic vs manipulation/gaslighting. Because the “magic” of trumps campaign is pretty insidious as he mostly just says whatever he wants you to believe, over and over and over again, and ignores any data that shows factual evidence otherwise. He’s a shallow pool that makes people become obsessed. That could be seen as magic.
Neither Trump or Biden have a place here. Politics is what killed most of our brothers and sisters in the past. Let this be a safe zone away from all that regardless of your outside views from this neutral zone
I have mixed feelings on this take tbh. There's definitely validity in trying to avoid politics in certain spaces, but if your space concerns itself with the environment then your space already concerns itself with, at the very least, the politics of environmentalism. If your space concerns itself with the social integration of individuals and especially often otherwise social outcasts at that, then it concerns itself with identities, or more accurately with the need for a baseline of decency and respect for those outcasts regardless their background or identity.
So you can't let, say, climate denialist misinformation spread unimpeded, and you really shouldn't let any misinformation that might malign one faction / identity within against another run unimpeded either - that's how you get infighting and collapse, and in extreme cases, that very fighting that killed our "brothers and sisters" in the past you speak of, too. So if a major thought leader falsely claims or suggests that there's a massive wave of a "woke agenda" mutilating childrens' genitals, when that's known to be a false narrative blown out of proportion to malign the LGBT+ community as groomers and child predators of one sort or another, that needs correction and it needs awareness raised so the community knows better than to fall into the infighting that naturally brings.
The other side of the coin is we need to get better about giving people a chance to learn better, grow, and rebuild themselves no matter how bad they might've been before. No "cancellation" even if it's warranted should be an absolute with no escape no matter how much they seem to have reformed. That's the part my side needs to be better about, but that can only happen if we're truly feeling good faith attempts at progress are being made, rather than having every uncomfortable reality swept under the rug and ignored as our foundation rots away right under us. That can't stand either.
While I think JMG was entirely too gentle in his treatment of Trump and Trumpism, King in Orange does make some valid points. I find it especially illuminating on the the subject of Positive Thinking and what happens when someone born wealthy (Trump) makes use of it...this is exactly what William Walker Atkinson warned of nearly a century ago! Trump is despicable but he learned from the likes of Norman Vincent Peale and, make no mistake, he learned well!