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She also responded to someone who left a rude comment on an E! Instagram post.
Has it really been 2 years? Damn time flies (i’m 3 years clean myself)
Hey good for you! Congrats 🎈
Congratulations!
3 in July, checking in!
Hell yeah way to go. It isn’t easy.
Congratulations! ❤️
Well done 🤗
Nice one mate!! I never had a problem per se but I’m aiming to not do coke this year
The one with the rude comment seems to a swiftie, her username suggests that (her profile is private), does she know that Cara and Taylor are friends?
This assumes a level of critical thinking that is very generous of you.
It’s amazing how many people stigmatize addiction still even though it’s a disease
The “tweaking” video that went viral of her was September 2022?
It’s May right now. Assuming she got clean shortly after the viral video, that fits with it being “nearly two years”
It makes me so happy to see her in recovery and I wish her a lifetime of health. I don't follow her but what I saw of her a couple of years ago was so scary.
It's a lot easier to not be alone when you have money. And after reading "Uncultured" by Daniella Mastenyak, I'm even firmer in my belief that AA is a cult.
In my perfect World, people who want to be sober should be offered Portugal's free and supportive programs plus free trauma therapy. Their new(ish) system sound wonderful and are free. And they're empirically so beautiful (effective)!
Thank you. Even though atheists try to squeeze themselves into AA's box it's still at it's core a faith based coping system imo.
I went to an agnostic/atheist AA group and it still wasn't for me. I just don't think the program works for everybody. I'm glad it exists for the people who find value in it, but it's just not for everyone.
And often, it’s the only option for mandated recovery if you go to jail. Which is unethical, imho.
Also AA is a hunting ground for abusers and exploiters who see people at their worst and see them as easy recruitable material for their church. AA itself doesn't vet people enough, so its a breeding ground for radicalization.
A lot of good people go into AA for good reasons but come out instead members of an abusive and controlling church, often developing regressive and hateful views from said church.
Absolutely. It is much easier to indoctrinate people who are struggling.
Absolutely, my atheist ass had no place in those meetings
It's also statistically speaking not successful. If we had another such treatment for a disease with such abysmal success rates, we would hardly recommend it or call it a success. You're as likely to quit on your own as you are using AA!
Yup. I don’t drink but I had to go to an AA meeting as part of a school assignment once (long story), so I chose the local agnostic group. It was definitely still very Christian coded.
What?!?? I can't imagine being this hateful towards somebody
There was nothing hateful said. Take it from an overly sensitive person: you’re being too sensitive about nothing, bud.
I just went down a very interesting rabbit hole. Thank you!
Portugals Path to Breaking Drug Addiction
AA has saved lot's of lives and labelling it as a cult is a bit irresponsible - yes, there are specific branches of AA that can be a culty - but one of the reasons AA works is because of the sense of community and not wanting to break this vow with the others, which helps keep people sober. Is it sometimes rooted in the shame of breaking sobriety and having to lie in a meeting or come clean and risk being ousted? Sometimes, yes. But it's keeping people sober, it's preventing death...
AA is not a proven rehabilitation program. Statistically it has the same amount of relapsing users as those who quit “cold turkey” and those who do inpatient rehab. What we know about addiction and how to conquer it is ridiculously little.
AA’s relapse rate is literally so high. If this was a medication or a treatment, it would be discarded. HOWEVER, if it helps and works for you, GO FOR IT! It’s a support group. It’s useful. But people need to also seek out talk therapy, behavioral therapy, psychiatric evaluation, ADHD coaching if need be etc. It’s a privilege and immensely difficult to get. If you can tho, do it!
AA doesn't have statistically significant data, how can it be "literally so high"?...AA isn't centralized enough to participate in studies, it doesn't gather details on members.
Not to mention the fact that there are no reliable statistics on AA/NA membership rates, success rates, failure rates, &c. due to the nature and history of the program itself. All data on relapse rates is self-reported which comes with its own considerations, and no one has been able to conduct longitudinal studies on AA/NA success rates.
The history of how and why abstinence only programs like AA come to dominate the treatment industrial complex in the US is fascinating! I have a ton of books on it since I research addiction, but one that is written non academically is The Sober Truth
Isn’t the rate so high because it’s often court mandated? So you have many people who have no actual interest in quitting there?
I dunno how long ago these studies were done, but yes and no. I can only speak to my state and recent years.
Court won't order someone to AA/NA they'll order them to rehab or other formal treatment.
Now, the REHABS might assign it. So in essence yes it can be court ordered. But there's a lot more leeway because the terms aren't set in stone. The patient can say to the rehab therapist "hey I've had bad experiences with NA what else could I do instead?" But many are scared to do that.
It’s a predatory program full of 13th steppers
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3253040/
I thought you were gonna link Russel Brand’s imdb lmao. He’s notorious for it
It’s not tho. It’s the community, the support, the accountability. Not a book that tells you that you are born an addict, you always will be, and you should never forget that.
yes, totally, I was just speaking to the parts that I know are labeled as culty. But accountability, that's the word I was looking for.
It’s also promoting rape, like any good cult.
https://revealnews.org/podcast/the-13th-step/
It doesn't "promote rape"... There's horrible people everywhere but AA itself doesn't promote rape. If you drink or do drugs and that's how you justify never getting sober, because you fixate on the worst aspects of human nature that permeate all levels of society, then so be it.
But don't go around and try to convince other people that want to stop drinking that a widespread organization that could support them in their recovery is entirely bad because you read one slam piece that picked up on the fact that yes, just like in any other group of people you will ever encounter, predators are present and take advantage of people in vulnerable positions. That's not something unique to AA by any stretch of the imagination.
AA can and does help a huge number of people, vilifying the entire organization because of the actions of a few people makes you a bad person because someone who really needs help might see this and think, "oh well even AA is evil... They promote rape, I guess I'll just cross that off my list of possible ways to stop drinking." Stop spreading deliberate misinformation. Spreading misinformation actually does hurt people.
yep. that's what I meant. people need to stop generalizing
Wow. I didn't know this but I'm honestly not shocked. This is what happens when you get a shit ton of dysfunctional addicts together, most of them with unresolved trauma. It's sad and infuriating.
I'm somewhat grateful for AA because I believe without access to it, my severe alcoholic aunt would be dead today. She's in rural Appalachia without access to any other programs that are a huge amount of money. I wish therapy and other options were more accessible, but this is what we have unfortunately.
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I don't care if it helps some people, I care that it hurts people.
https://journals.lww.com/jan/abstract/2003/14010/_13th_stepping___why_alcoholics_anonymous_is_not.7.aspx
There's a peer-reviewed study exploring this very REAL issue, but there are a hundred publications that talk about people's experience with just that.
https://www.aa.org/alcoholics-anonymous-2022-membership-survey
Or what about that a quarter don't make it more than a year and another 20% don't make it over 5 years (mind you this range is a little broad for my taste because 1-5 is too far a range when that many drop off after a single year).
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/the-irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/
Or I guess that it is a faith-based program by design and no secular version of it is truly secular.
The reason I care is because I have family that were able to live their lives sober, and others abused in the AA system.
SMART
I think the biggest value is for people who would otherwise be completely alone in sobriety. Giving up all your friends and family is fucking ROUGH but a lot of people in AA/NA have been using so long their whole lives were built around it. From what I've seen, the people who vibe with it are the ones who literally would have no one sober to call up and talk to without a sponsor.
Because AA is unregulated and group run, there are so many predatory groups. There are good ones too, but it’s so very important to recognize what is and isn’t normal. If AA is telling you that you aren’t sober unless you are not taking ANY medication, GTFO.
Could not agree more.
I agree. I was mandated into treatment after a DUI and it was the worst experience of my life. She also kept us way longer than needed because we were her first group. Nice gal but get me the fuck out of here please. Didn’t stay sober at that point but, I have been sober 2.5 years now and I don’t do any program and it’s been very successful. Ik that’s not the case for everyone but I personally was not interested in AA at all
Congrats on your sobriety! I've been sober for about the same amount of time (this October will be 3 years). I too didn't do a program. I think the majority of people who need the programs like AA are those with a chemical dependency (and imo, AA alone isn't enough - there needs to be therapy too). I didn't have a chemical dependency on booze, so I was able to cold turkey quit and never look back. My only challenges were social situations. But I'd done a lot of internal work with my therapist prior to arriving to the conclusion that my relationship with alcohol was never going to be anything other than completely chaotic. And it took me a long time to get there.
I didn't have to do AA from my DUI, but I had to go to a weekend "school" and one part of it included bringing in some women from MADD and we got completely shamed for like 2 hours. It was absolutely deserved.
Yes the MADD class was traumatizing 😩 it all really boils down to do you want it or not? Congratulations on your sobriety as well! Such a huge feat you should be so proud.
Omg that's wild. MADD is who changed the drinking age from 18 to 21. They sound terrifying.
I remember (no way this would fly now) in high school in the south, the cops showed us crime scene photos of people dead from drunk/high driving car wrecks, dating back to what looked like the 70's (I guess they've been doing that program since then) for over an hour. It was so graphic and I hid my face the whole time. It was so fucked up.
Harm reduction works! A compassionate approach always works best 💞 Portugal’s system is fantastic and I hope it sets a bar worldwide
Love harm reduction. Don’t do those kinds of drugs myself, but I carry fentanyl test strips and narcan every summer when I’m going to festivals, concerts, and hanging out with my friends that jump trains. Better safe than sorry.
Your friends that jump trains are on fantasy? Man I live a sheltered existence
I don’t understand your first sentence, but jumping trains and homelessness isn’t a fantasy at all and I wouldn’t recommend that lifestyle to anyone. It is rampant with drug abuse, substance abuse related diseases, and underage minors being taken advantage of. I love my friends who live that lifestyle but I definitely don’t want anyone romanticizing it. I have about 2 friends or acquaintances per year dying of overdoses or liver related diseases and all but couple lived that lifestyle. These aren’t old people either. Late 20 to late 30 year olds.
Or if that was a misspelling of fent, most people are not on fent. But if you’re doing substances past alcohol, shrooms, and marijuana you have a non zero risk of it being cut with it.
My grandad attended AA after being a barely functioning alcoholic for 30 years. He was a staunch atheist and just picked and chose when he attended meetings, went for lunch and walks with his sponsor when he was struggling (also atheist) and when he got clean he was clean for 29 years right up until he passed. The ultimatum my mum gave him before he started AA was “get sober or I’m never letting you see you grand daughter” (me. Also there’s a good reason. He was such a mess apparently. He turned up 20 mins into my baptism asking the priest if he could hold me and got really angry when the priest said he could after the baptism ceremony, but not at that moment. Then he threw a chair next to the door and stormed out)
I like the serenity prayer, it’s calming to me, but the religious aspect of AA is weird af, I hate it. I can definitely say though it had a huge impact on the support my grandad was receiving during his recovery, so I’m grateful for the positive aspect there. I’m glad for the fact it actually worked for him and he ended up being the best grandfather in the world as well as my bestfriend. RIP grandad ♥️
It works so great for some people and that makes me so happy! I was, in a less blunt way, told that I'm an alcoholic cuz I'm gay cuz God doesn't want me to be gay anymore the last (out of maybe 5 or 6 times) I tried AA. I'm sure there are much more accepting branches and I will always acknowledge that it does help so many people, but the core values are very rooted in religion and that can attract some people who are less accepting and friendly.
Idk if you listen to the “sounds like a cult” podcast but they have an episode on AA where they speak about the religious culty aspect of it and how it’s negatively impacted a lot of people - it might be cathartic for you if you had a bad experience with it. It opened my eyes massively to how shitty it can be for a lot of people.
You are gay because you were born that way, and if you struggled with any type of addiction and people were telling you the entire time that it was because of your sexuality, I don’t know how they thought making someone feel absolutely needlessly ashamed of a part of themselves they have no control or decision over could EVER help ANYONE. I’m sorry you had to hear that shit while trying to do something really positive for yourself.
AA itself didn't help my family member. But he did find someone there who helped him, spoke to him, and would go on walks and hikes with him.
I have a weird relationship with AA because of that. It helped out someone I hold dear, but also, it's a flipping religious cult.
Edit: I can't spell.
I mean one good person isn't a whole organization, and I'm guessing it took your family member a whole lot more than just one guy helping him on walk and talks.
AA is toxic.
How so?
It’s deeply rooted in the Christian religion. It relies heavily on shame. “You are an addict. It defines you as a person. You will never change this. Our program is the only way to live as an addict, deal with the shame of being an addict, and live a normal life. If you fall off the wagon your entire streak will be over and you have to start back at the beginning.”
Listen I am all for the community, support, accountability, and networking that AA provides. I think the AA program, as defined by their book which provides varying levels of guidance to the actual groups, is inherently toxic due to the blame and shame approach. When something you struggle with becomes a source of shame it becomes even harder to try to heal and change. Anyway my 2 cents.
This hasn't been my experience at all in the almost 3 years I've been in AA but that's not to say this doesn't exist. Every group is autonomous and there are definitely groups that take a caustic approach. Im fortunate to live in a very diverse city with a lot of different kinds of people in AA.
have you read the book and been active in the program? Or is this just like, your opinion man?
There was a film about AA, ‘The Thirteenth Step’.
wait is this book about AA being a cult? i haven't read it but the synopsis doesn't mention AA
My dad has been successfully sober for 30+ years, and I remember asking once if he went to AA or thought it was helpful, and I remember he said (paraphrasing to the best of my memory) "I changed my life for you girls, your mom, and this family. I don't need a dozen strangers telling me they're proud of giving me a poker chip every year when I have you three to make it worth it"
We've also ever been a church family, so the whole "godly forgiveness" aspect was not a draw for him either lol
AA is absolutely free and you can come or go at anytime. How is that a cult?
I despised AA (preferred SMART). It's similar to a cult in that, from the beginning, they're extremely negative and essentially tell you that you're powerless. You then have a "higher power" that, if you accept them, will "fix" your "character defects". Combined with the community aspect, people I know that buy into it tend to be very dependent on it. SMART felt more like a therapy session focused on addiction, much less shame-based, and it didn't feel like it was fostering a dependence on the program or other participants.
I had very similar reactions. AA felt weird and uncomfortable from the beginning. Really happy I found SMART.
Does SMART offer zoom meetings? Want to look into this
More cults than you realise operate with an entirely "normal" look to outsiders. In fact, a lot of high control groups will be free to join, and won't physically stop folks from leaving. Many have members work entirely regular 9-5 jobs, then steal their wages.
Do I think AA is a cult? I don't know enough about it tbh.
However, it is a deeply flawed model of sobriety, and as anything faith based, true believers can be exploited by unscrupulous leaders.
I’m intrigued with all of this so I’ve been doing a little research and came across this:
https://filtermag.org/deprogramming-from-aa-when-a-fellowship-resembles-a-cult/amp/
“Why It Can Be Frightening to Leave a 12-Step Group However, many members of “Deprogramming” report feeling afraid about leaving 12-step circles.
They fear not being able to stay “sober”—a fear instilled by 12-step teaching that as an “alcoholic” or “addict,” you can’t take so much as one sip of alcohol without complete reversion to dangerous patterns (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).
Fear of social isolation is another important common factor. Twelve-step groups typically encourage members to build their lives around the program, to attend meetings every day for the first 90 days and many more ever after.”
Because they tell you that god has decided you’re a shameful addict, you can never change that about yourself, and if you don’t stick to their rigid guidelines you will absolutely ruin your life. Because you’re a hopeless addict who can only stay sober with our guidance.
Because they weaponize the support they give to people if they don’t ’follow their rules’
There’s no centralized AA organization. Who is they?
Completing my 6 months sobriety this weekend 🙌🏽
Honestly it's the best decision I made
I’m on day six! Long path to go but I’m honestly excited. Can’t wait to hit that milestone and many more.
You got this. It gets better and better every single day—I didn’t believe this when I first got sober but I do now.
Congratulations!
Congratulations! I’m proud of you!
You're amazing, congratulations!!
Well done!!
Congratulations!!!
Congratulations! I’m coming up on two years. Also the best decision I ever made.
Congrats! I have been sober (well, "California sober" I guess, because I still smoke weed, but I don't have an unhealthy relationship with it like I did booze, and it's been paramount in my CPTSD healing journey, as I'm able to be so much kinder to myself and make connections and aha moments I wouldn't have otherwise because I was living in a constant state of dysregulation) for 3 years now. Best decision I've ever made. I love to see so many people quitting booze. It's really picked up in the last few years and I'm so here for it.