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Does anyone understand how loud NYC is compared to Somerville and even Boston for that matter??? Moved here from NY and the first thing I noticed is how quiet it is
go hang out around Stuart and Tremont street 11pm-2:30pm any Friday or Saturday. Most Thursdays. And a lot of Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays....... The bucket drummer until 3am is a nice added touch. Tried to talked to BPD on site about it and was told the guy needs to make a living. It was 2:30 am.
Moves to the city for the culture…proceeds to call the police about it
Yea people here love to clutch their pearls
Ohhh yes pls... Especially that one dude who makes it a point to rev his shit box with a broken muffler in the middle of the night. Fuck that guy.
This would double the mbta budget shortfall in one day.
I'm in favour of any kind of automated enforcement. Since our police department won't enforce anything relating to traffic, that seems to be the only way at this point.
I find it hilarious how many people think there aren't already license plate readers and cameras everywhere, as if this would make any difference in the "surveillance state". Actually, their own cars are sending their data off to insurance companies and marketers.
yea … so funny
Automated tickets for cyclists breaking the law? For jaywalking pedestrians? For dog owners that let their dog off the leash somewhere innocent? For people drinking at PorchFest?
Everybody is for strict enforcement until it’s one of the thing they do that breaks the law yet seems perfectly reasonable. Everybody has something. I say just use common sense, and take responsibility for technically being in the wrong when it happens.
Do you actually not know the difference between your examples and cars driving recklessly?
There are way more negative consequences for a motorists breaking the law with a 2 ton metal vehicle than a pedestrian or bicyclists or dog owner breaking a traffic law? This is common sense. Cars raise the stakes. It is why we have traffic laws in the first place? If everyone was biking and walking around there would be no need for traffic lights or speed limits or enforcing "jaywalking" etc.
Perfect response
Whataboutism is generally a pretty stupid response.
Saying "everyone is in favor of X until they don't want X for Z" isn't a useful logical statement. It doesn't contradict "let's have X for Y". It would only contradict "people always want X". Which only one person has actually argued in favor of.
This is actually a slippery slope argument. Yes it's a fallacy. It's not a perfect argument, but it's also not a stupid one. The onus is on the OP to provide evidence that doing X will necessarily lead to undesirable outcome Y and Z.
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Yes
I think it is funny that people are so against cameras in a public right of way... that would make the road safer by enforcing speed limits (also illegal right turns) and more pleasant by enforcing noise ordinance laws.
But are not vocally against cameras literally everywhere else. Like every place you shop at, the airport, the public schools, the dmv, literally everywhere has a security camera. But if there are cameras in the one place that is statistically the most dangerous for everyday americans to be in all of a sudden the US is a surveillance state.
Instead of acting like you are afraid of some Orwellian government, just admit you break traffic laws and don't want to pay the fines.
Cameras where you shop are not backed by people who have civil asset forfeiture in their back pocket. Store Security can't shoot people with impunity.
Automated cameras are never a good thing.
The automated cameras would remove police involvement. Sure I am just as against civil asset forfeiture as you. That is a strawman argument.
I’m not in favor of cameras for this use but if we actually wanted to ensure people aren’t driving at dangerous speeds we could accomplish that pretty quickly while also reducing interactions between police and the public.
And for cyclists going through red lights!!
It’s not really worthwhile enforcing against infractions that aren’t dangerous.
If and when this goes into effect, let me get the percentage on these people who will promptly pay the fine and then systematically remove the mods from their cars.
Let’s not forget the obnoxious old dudes with the huge motorcycles
Cosplaying as pirates just to piss off every resident they pass is apparently an American tradition, complete with patented engine noise.
But I don't wanna be a pirate!
This. Free fucking money. Motorcycles are worse then the douchers with their modified car exhaust.
I'm a motorcyclist with a stock exhaust. Straight pipes are illegal but bikers claim it's a safety thing, since motorcycles are often invisible. I'm less than convinced.
Louder than the average passenger car? Fine. Loud enough to hear 3 blocks away? Not ok.
Did a biker bang your mom or wife or both?
No they farted down a residential road at 5am on their maga machine
Oh so motorcycles are somehow associated with Trump now?
Real question: Does this disturbance for say 30 seconds a day actually meaningfully ruin your life in a way that you’d take the joy of something away from someone? I’m not advocating for the crazy annoying loud people, but some things are just noisy transiently and this is a city…
When you put it like that, no, this seems unnecessary. But how about if we put it this way - Does the disturbance for say 30 seconds of hundreds to thousands of people a day actually meaningfully ruin their lives in a way that you'd take the joy of something away from one person?
The joy of what? 30 seconds of quiet? It’s a city. People honk, police sirens go, kids scream, construction noises happen,etc. None of those things will ever stop. I can wear AirPods or turn up my TV, turn down my mic for Zoom, etc. I just feel like there’s bigger things to be concerned about instead of hating on people who are also just trying to commute and live their lives.
We have noise laws, and there are car decibel laws. This isn't "city noise," these are people breaking the law.
I’m all for this, most of the ding-dongs around here drive like absolute morons and deserve it!
I don’t even drive and I don’t want this
Looot of suburbanites who any to rip through our neighborhoods to get to the highway on this post
There's also plenty of opposition from the people who tell us it's bad to defend yourself when you're attacked, it's bad to prosecute organized theft rings, and generally that it's bad to interfere with the action of criminals in any way.
We definitely do NOT need more police surveillance.
We don't? Are they in any way overstepping?
Every day somebody else asking for more cops in Somerville. Fuckin wild
That's not what this is though? This is enforcement of existing and important laws without needing more cops on the street
Mass has historically shut down automated enforcement (produminately with red light cameras).
I know much of you disagree, and I get it from a safety standpoint, but I genuinely don’t want that level of video enforcement where I live.
And yes, I get it, the government already can track me to my toenail if they cared, but I really just don’t love leaning into camera enforcement and the inevitable invasion of privacy / illegal searches that comes with it.
I'm not sure I'm fully following what you're saying here. It sounds like you think this won't actually increase the level of invasion of privacy but you still think it's bad?
It’s a camera that turns on once a certain level of decibels is hit. That could be set off by a number of abnormalities, these systems are never perfect.
For my personal bias, I have had to go to court to prove myself innocent via dash cam in a wrongful traffic ticket previously, and I still had to pay the court fee and take off work.
If I drive past someone making > 85 db on the sidewalk and the camera picks up my car, would I need to go back to court because the camera assumed it was my car?
Small, random case, but just an example.
You’re just asking for more police surveillance. Way better.
I find it so frustrating and sad when people see a good idea, find a single flaw, and then toss the whole thing out apparently without another thought.
There's plenty of ways to mitigate that risk. Have a separate agency that handles these types of tickets, and require subpoenas to get any information that's stored. Require information to automatically be deleted after a short but reasonable amount of time. Etc. etc.
Except the government has repeatedly failed to do this each and every single time we are in this scenario. If you know about any of the following:
-FISA court
Patriot act
Patriot Sunset act
-Snowden leaks
I could keep going, but literally anyone who knows about our government's history with surveillance knows none of what you described (outside agency, required subpoena, info automatically deleted) would happen. You have a seriously naïve view of trusting our government with surveillance...
I find it so frustrating and sad when people see something that is at most, a minor annoyance, and then seek police or legal intervention.
There’s absolutely no need for this. You live in a city. It’s loud.
I hate porch fest. It’s loud. It’s annoying. Idiots leave trash in my front yard. I catch people urinating in my yard every year. But, I’d never ask for more surveillance to catch them. It’s part of living in Somerville. We already get overtaxed on everything because of the location. The last thing I want is to raise that bill because I get annoyed.
Just because the camera won't shoot an unarmed black teen doesn't make it good
Just because it'll take photos of your license plate doesn't make it bad
Isn't part of the point of this that there's fewer cops needed? It's automating their job. (Not that they were doing it anyhow.)
Who said any of this involves cops?
Right, what the hell is wrong with people!
Anyone seen the lifted trucks with speakers UNDER their truck bed … blasts it in the tunnel
I wish Boston would do the same
They would make a killing on Lowell.
I can’t wait to live in an episode of Black Mirror.
It is upsetting to me that people have given up on personal privacy. We all know the government can already track us if they really care to, but why should we roll over on it and enable it?
These acts always come with a facade of safety over a foundation of illegal searches and limitations of personal privacy. Obviously a dramatic comparison, but we all never learned from the patriot act.
Modifying a vehicle’s exhaust so that it rattles my teeth from inside my home isn’t personal privacy.
The police can’t seem to deal with it directly and it’s a problem in cities. So what’s your solution? We just have to suffer through it?
This isn't giving up much personal privacy if any, and it comes with a really nice benefit: a more comfortable and peaceful city. I pretty regularly come across vehicles that are so loud, they literally hurt. I'm sure I'm accumulating hearing loss from people who don't know how to handle frustration except by laying on their horn
Why the hell should we just let people drive around neighborhoods doing that to people?
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This article is about a totally different technology.
I wonder how this will compare to Shotspotter: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/24/us/shotspotter-cities-choose-not-to-use/index.html
It also sounded like a good idea (who doesn't want less gun shots going off in their neighborhood? Or doesn't want those tracked down) but it's got a lot of concerns around effectiveness, bias and costs. It looks like NYC went with this company called "SoundVue: https://soundvue.com/
I don't see the same level of reporting on it, but it sounds pretty similar. Third party company makes system, municipalities pay big money for it in the hopes it reduces an issue, but ultimately it leads to problems and costs a lot of money. Will be interesting to see how effective it is in NYC.
EDIT: interesting that stock vehicles were hit with tickets too. Maybe this could force manufacturers to consider different design choices. Do these cars, even though their "performance " cars, really need to be emitting that much noise? Seems like CA is also looking into it. With two big States potentially cracking down on it, it might spur better design choices at the manufacturer level on new cars. Maybe people will also modify their cars to be quieter to avoid expensive tickets.
It should be required that horns are as loud inside the vehicle as they are outside.
I am 100% in favor of repealing the automated enforcement ban in Massachusetts.
Allow cameras to ticket red light runners, speeders, double parkers, etc. Put cameras on the front of busses that ticket people blocking bus lanes and stops. Take enforcement out of the hands of the police, who clearly don't want to do it, and make it automatic.
I have a more practical suggestion. I’m afraid I‘ll be getting hearing issues because of buses’ pheumatics “pfssssssshhh” when I bicycle next to them. Can we impose some decibel limits on those? This affects me way more often than an occasional loud motorcyclist.
Ooooh yes! Let’s normalize automated surveillance and ticketing !!! It will make my daily fifteen minute walk in the city more peaceful!!
I think more cop surveillance is good because sometimes people are nOiSy.
This subreddit is fucking incredible.
What if we used street cameras to fine the rats for existing, I bet we’d have no rats over night
Lmao nimby twats
As annoying as loud vehicles and drivers are, automated policing is not a worthwhile tradeoff IMHO.
The attitude in this thread is why Boston metro will never be cool.
Saw a loud Prius driving up bow street the other day with an obnoxious sounding horn. Interesting choices 🤔
Yes please!
Trust me you don't want more automated ticketing enforcement
Neighbor, the biggest risk to my life is people running red lights. The biggest harm to my mental health is assholes waking me up through the night with loud exhaust to totally unnecessary honking. Trust me, I 100% do want this. Yes there are privacy concerns, but that are definitely manageable
Comrade, just don your government issued safety sensory deprivation suit. Don’t forget your safety helmet.
I want your life so badly. Normal people have so many worse things to worry about.
Ahh yes, the classic "the only problem worth addressing is the literal worst problem" argument
Wow you must've had a real bad time during Porchfest because it was loud.
We Stan the ongoing police state
You think you want this until you realize what else comes with it. Source: I just received a ticket in my MA mailbox for doing 41 in a 30 a few weeks ago in Queens. 50 dollars, no cop, just a picture of my car driving down the street. Trust me, you don’t want this.
The only part of that I don't want is for the ticket to be a measley $50. The difference in pedestrian fatality rates for collisions between 30 and 41 is about double. So yeah, I want a strong incentive for you to slow down before you kill someone
I would absolutely love for people to not drive 41 on tight residential Somerville streets
The road I was "speeding" on didn't have pedestrians on it because it was a, best way to describe it, highway style road. Not everywhere is Somerville, and NYC is not just Manhattan.
Highway style streets like the DCR parkways of Alewife Brook, Mystic Valley and Fresh Pond exist in or around Somerville though. They have posted speed limits of 30-35 mph because of pedestrian crossings and heavy pedestrian traffic at major intersections. Look at Broadway and Alewife Brook Parkway for a good example in Somerville (on the Arlington line though).
McGrath "highway" is another example from MassDOT.
Street design should be better to discourage this, but when that's lacking enforcement sort of needs to fill that gap in between construction seasons and during planning of safety improvements.
Bigger issue I see with automated enforcement is the risk of bias (putting the cameras on one side of town) and false positives. Cops are biased and may wrongly ticket you too, so whatever the system is needs to be generally better than the average cop to make sense. Seems like that isn't too hard to do for speeding or red light enforcement. Sound seems trickier though, like Shotspotter is a good example that is getting a lot of reporting on because of bias and cost concerns.
Yeah sure I know nothing about your speeding ticket but you said I would not want this in Somerville. I absolutely would because we have a ridiculous amount of through traffic through our city that has no regard for the people that live here
What's the part where I don't want this? I'm legitimately confused here.
The part where you drive intuitively yet still cough up money you don't really have to the robotic arm of the state's military appendage. Or the part where you're essentially opening yourself up to more spying from the government.
The only problem I have with that is that it's too cheap. Don't speed.
My whole point is that "speeding" isn't speeding until the local government decides on a number and then anything past a certain threshold is then "speeding." If I was on here complaining that I was caught doing 60 in a 30, or 100 in a 65, that's one thing. I can't stress enough that the road that I was "caught speeding" on - I really thought back to it and I felt like I was driving on the slower side. To be honest this is the second speeding ticket I've ever gotten in my life and I've been driving for 15 years. I know the 10 and 2 crowd is getting a lot of love here, but I think they're either being idealistic/unrealistic about what driving is actually like, or putting themselves in a mindspace in which every road in the world is Highland Ave., or maybe they just don't drive. When you put an automated money printer in the sky, with states that are already hellbent on taxing their citizens into oblivion, you're going to get artificially lowered speed limits not for safety's sake, but to goat you into a summons - and you're going to get artificially expanded "school zones", again multiple blocks away from a nonvisible school, designed to goat you into a summons. This is the reality of what the localities are trying to accomplish here; please do not confuse yourself that this is in any way about "safety".