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Fascism has a number of essential characteristics but the most distinct is palingenetic ultranationalism: The myth that the nation is an organic body composed of a downtrodden but authentic "common people" who have been betrayed, victimized, and derived of land and money by out-groups (especially Jews, LGBT folks, immigrants, and liberals), and the nation must be reborn and grown larger, phoenix-like, from the ashes of its downtrodden state through the cleansing fire of violence against those out-groups and their allies (especially their allies among the "common people") and the seizure of their land and property, regardless of how many "common people" must be sacrificed in this process of violent "purification"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palingenetic_ultranationalism
Palestinian nationalism has all these definitional features. Its central myth is that "the Palestinians" (whose language, Arabic, lacks the letter P) have been betrayed, oppressed, and deprived of their land and money by Jews, and "Palestine" must be reborn and grown larger, phoenix-like, from the ashes of its current corrupt theocracy through the cleansing fire of violence against Jews, LGBT people, and liberals (especially liberal Arabs who believe in co-existence with Jews and LGBT people), and all those who support them, regardless of how many human shields, child soldiers, and hospitals with bunkers underneath them must be sacrificed in this process of purification
This Palestinian ideological mythos entirely reverses victim and perpetrator
In the real world, there is an extensive and well corroborated archeological record (starting with the Merneptah Stele) showing the continuous residence of the indigenous Jewish inhabitants in the land between the river and the sea, but that Stele alone independently establishes their presence for at least the last 3200 years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele
In contrast, the Arab-Israeli conflict started relatively recently, with the battle of Tel Hal on March 1st 1920, when an Arab militia attacked the Jewish-owned farms at Tel Hal in an attempt to find French soldiers, eventually burning it to the ground. Prior to that there was no organized violence between Arabs and Israelis in the region:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tel_Hai
The next incident in the Arab-Israel conflict was the Nebi Musa riots a month later, on April 8th 1920, when Amin al-Husayni (who later allied with the Nazis and was a big fan of Hitler) gave an incendiary speech from the balcony of the Arab Club, kicking off what resulted in an Muslim mob of around 60,000 ransacking of the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem:
https://www.palquest.org/en/historictext/6709/palin-commission-report
That's what started the war. It started with Arab people committing mob violence against Jewish people and that has never stopped to this day. Genocide is what Nazi and Communist-inspired Arab mobs and armies have repeatedly tried to do to the indigenous Jewish people of the land between the river and the sea, starting from the 1920 Nebi Musa riots, and continuing on through 1948, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1987, 2000, and most recently on October 7th
They keep trying to eradicate Jewish people off the land their ancestors lived in continuously for thousands of years, they keep getting their asses kicked every time they try it, and they deserve it every time they do
This makes sense when you understand the history of the region, and how Arab-ness was imposed by force (along with Islam) by multiple relatively historically recent waves of conquering Muslim settler-colonists
The Ottoman Empire was the culmination of those waves of Muslim settler-colonists, and after World War I it collapsed and in much of the Middle East was followed by Pan-Arab nationalism, which was a remarkably Nazi project. The founder of modern Palestinian religious nationalism (Amin al Husseini) was a close ally and personal friend of Hitler
https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-official-record-what-the-mufti-said-to-hitler/
After waging and escalating series of genocidal pogroms against the indigenous Jewish people (culminating in their alliance with the Nazis in World War II) and getting their asses kicked, Palestinian nationalism (as distinct from pan-Arab nationalism) emerged a fundamentally Soviet project
That is not an exaggeration. 100 years ago most people in the region defined themselves as Ottoman, by their village, or by their religion. Arab nationalism is a relatively new socially constructed weapon, made up by unambiguous fascists (like Sati Al-Husri, Abdulrahman Badawi, and Amin al-Husseini) and communists (like Fawaz Taraboulsi or Suhayl Idris) to mobilize hate against and justify the murder of their imperfect but much more reasonable democratic enemies (who also happened by the enemies of the Nazis and Soviets)
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/liberation-arabs-global-left
Palestinian nationalism, as opposed to Arab nationalism, was created by the KGB after the repeated defeats of the USSR's Arab-nationalist proxies in 1948 and 1967. The blueprint for the PLO Charter was drafted in Moscow in 1964 and was approved by 422 Palestinian representatives hand-selected by the KGB. At that time, the USSR was in the business of creating "people’s liberation" fronts. The KGB founded the PLO as well as the National Liberation Army of Bolivia in 1964 led by Ernesto "Che" Guevara, and the National Liberation Army of Colombia in 1965
The “Palestinian Liberation Army” was contrived by the KGB, much like the KGB devised the Bolivian National Liberation Army, Greek People's Liberation Army, Malayan National Liberation Army, etc etc. It created this Arab army in the early 1960s following the failure of the troops of various Soviet-puppet-ruled Arab states to destroy Israel. The KGB drafted the Palestinian National Charter and handpicked the 422 members of the PLO council that approved it. As the KGB's director said at the time, "We needed to instill a Nazi-style hatred for the Jews throughout the Islamic world, and to turn this weapon of the emotions into a terrorist bloodbath against Israel". Likewise, both the Palestine National Covenant and Palestinian Constitution were drafted in Moscow
https://stanfordreview.org/deception-palestinian-nationalism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_involvement_in_regime_change
The most popular Palestinian faction currently, Hamas, pointedly opposes multi-ethnic pluralistic democracy. That's what Israel already is and they hate it. Hamas also explicitly opposes a two-state solution, wants to expel and murder Jews, and impose an Islamic theocracy by force
The founding covenant of Hamas, which they created their terrorist organization around in 1988, opens with a message that precisely encapsulates Hamas’s master plan. Quoting Hassan al-Banna, the Egyptian founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is a constituent member (Article 2), the document proclaims, “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
After some general explanatory language about Hamas’s religious foundation and noble intentions, the covenant comes to the Islamic Resistance Movement’s raison d’être: the slaughter of Jews. “The Day of Judgement will not come about,” it proclaims, “until Moslems fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and k-ll him.”
Article 11 spells out why this annihilation of Jews is required. Palestine is described as an “Islamic Waqf”—an endowment predicated on Muslim religious, education, or charitable principles and therefore inviolate to any other peoples or religions. Accordingly, the territory that now encompasses Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank is:
consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up … This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void.
In sum, any compromise over this land, including the moribund two-state solution, much less coexistence among faiths and peoples, is forbidden.
And Hamas has the support of somewhere between 65-80% of the Palestinian people
To understand the Palestinian strategy in this latest phase of their forever war, see here:
How Hamas Uses Civilians as a Weapon - The Dark Side of Clausewitzian War
https://deadcarl.substack.com/p/how-hamas-uses-civilians-as-a-weapon
Both Palestinian leadership and street have repeatedly acting as willing pawns, first of the Nazis, then of the Soviets, and now of the contemporary fascist Axis that includes Russia, China, and Iran. The historical Palestinian embrace of Nazi, Soviet, Islamist, and modern Axis fascism (and their rejection of democracy and equal rights) only makes their rationale for doing do so, and the nature of their project, more clear
Palestinian-ism is fascist, and everyone who understands and opposes fascism should oppose it
A contextual note: I am not Jewish or Israeli. My closest relatives in the region are from a bit north of there. None of this should need to be said. The content in this article should be obvious, and generally is obvious to those with relevant experience on the ground. Unfortunately we live in a world where disinformation drowns out accurate historical context so apparently this needs to be said once again
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Any form of ultra ethno nationalism is fascism. The current regimes of Israel, Serbia, Russia, North Korea and Palestine are all forms of fascism.
Amazing work i will be archiving this
If there fascist Jews are communist because they try to act like a governing body own everything
All nationalism/patriotism is fascistic in nature.
That's why we globalists are going to erase all the nations and we transhumanists are going to erase all the races, genders, sexes, etc.
Most humans are beasts. Not quite advanced enough to really be considered human, and so decisions must be made for them.
One day we will see a world that lacks both Palestine and Israel. They will be replaced with the "East Mediterranean Sector".
So anyone pro Palestine Or pro-Israel is a fascist and will be erased.
You think modifying basic human traits is going to lead to less diversity? As nations, cultures, subcultures, organizations, families and individuals finally get to decide what is important to physically be?
No, it will lead to true diversity. Diversity chosen by each individual instead of a form, colour, sex, etc forced upon you by a random dice roll at birth.
We will have humans that don't even look human anymore, who give up arms for tentacles.
We will have those who choose to become fully synthetic, no meat.
We will finally be done with forced attributes.
A society of individuals instead of groups.
Right now, we don't have diversity. We have the same copy of human with small differences. In the future, we will have humans who measure their weight in tons.
Trolling????
No. I'm a globalist, transhumanist technocrat/cybercrat.
My dream is of a future with no nations and humans made of metal and plastic, not meat.
The end goal of leftism is a world free of hierarchies. My plan will achieve this quickly.
We will become a world where only the diversity of your thoughts and the adornments you choose to place on your body differentiates you from others.
We will sever every human bloodline at once and give birth to a new form of human free from the anchors of biology.
LMAO sounds like a sci fi movie
Well shoot. Learn something new everyday. And I just learned we are well and truly fucked if you’re for real.
We are fucked now. 90% of our population are barely smarter than apes, we have genocide going on all over the world and we are still not taking climate change seriously.
The flesh will fail us because we will make this world uninhabitable for flesh.
Synthetic evolution is the only way we will survive.
We will finally be rid of our animal leftovers and we will strip the race from the racists, the nationality from the nationalists, and the faith from the faithist. The children couldn't play nice, so their toys will be taken.
We will take human filth and make it clean.
Only the racist wishes race to persist. Only the nationalist wishes nation to persist.
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This is why I don't believe in a palestine state. They have no historical claim to the land. Those maps you see floating around about how israel stole the land is misconstrued. They were defending themselves from wars. The attempts to give them a state only made things worse. They do better when they're nomads. Living on the land tribally. Nationhood is a radicalizing construct for such a small area. It's only a residency of 2 million people. That's too small for something to be considered a state. In order to be a nation you should need at least 10 million people.
I question if israel should even be considered a state either. I don't like the idea of strong top down societies as a classic liberal/libertarian. Stateism is a religion. It's better if we don't have states and aren't controlled by a world order. The UN is one of the most evil organizations on the planet. The ideal socities are voluntarist societies, I reject the world imposing a state on a peaceful voluntarist area. Statehood radicalizes and turns people into a weapon. They become a tool of a foreign ideology that did not originate with them.
9.558 million (2022)
Did you perhaps also take a look at other theories of fascism? The definitions of Umberto Eco and Emilio Gentile describe Palestinian fascism in a perfect way. It's sad to see self declared """leftists""" fall for a fascist movement. But history repeats itself, NSDAP got leftists members as well and Italy's fascists started as leftists too.
I stopped reading after: “the Palestinians” (whose language, Arabic, lacks the letter P)
Told me all I needed to know to not waste my time 😄
We are not writing in Arabic, we are writing in English. You can demand that people write Falastin, but it's a stupid demand. It's like Germans demanding to call them Deutsche, say München instead of Munich or Köln instead of Cologne. 😄
Do you think I'm wrong?
I am not, obviously. I always found it strange when Westerners identified Arab people as "Palestinians" when so many of those Arab people have for so long insisted that what they want is not merely a state in Palestine, but a unified Arab communist state in alliance with the Soviet Union
The Israelis, whose language, Hebrew, lacks the letter I
Very interesting... /s
Do you speak Arabic? I ask because, if you do, it's obvious that "Palestine" is not an Arabic word. It comes from the Greek "Philistia", and Arab speakers often pronounce it with the closest letter they have, which is a "b", so it becomes "Balestine". The native "Philistine" endonym is unknown
I mention this to illustrate that, compared to Arab-ness and Muslim-ness, "Palestinian" Arab identity is new. It was been socially constructed quite recently. I discussed some of its more prominent creators (who unfortunately happened to be textbook fascists) in my article
"Israel" is the English transliteration of the Hebrew word that begins with a Hebrew yodh. Jews (and other speakers of Semitic languages) have been using that letter (and its variants) to describe their polity for a very long time. In contrast, we just don't know what the ancient "Philistines" called themselves, but it wasn't that Greek word. The people the Greeks called "Philistines" were enslaved by and exiled to Babylon, where over time, they lost their unique ethnic identity. By the late fifth century BC, they had vanished from both historical and archaeological records as a distinct group. Now only the Greek word referring to them remains, and that was has been reappropriated by the Arab inhabitants of the land between the river and the sea relatively recently
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines
Yeah you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and you're basing your understanding of Palestine and Palestinians entirely on unflattering stereotypes. It's not "Balestine" in Arabic, it's "Filasteen," or فلسطين in Arabic script.
Habibi, b3arif. The point is that the word comes from the Greek and we don't know exactly what the ancient "Philistines" called themselves, but it surely isn't that. We do know that (like the ancient Israelites) they were conquered, enslaved, and exiled to Babylon in 604 BCE, where over time they lost their unique ethnic identity. By the late fifth century BC, they had vanished from both historical and archaeological records as a distinct group. The Greek term stuck though, and was reappropriated by Arab nationalists in the last 150 years or so
I’m an Arab. Did you think we pronounce it as “Balestine”?!
You mean like Neapolis or Tripoli?
I've actually tutored Saudi kids who did so the first time they read it in English.. The point is that the word comes from the Greek and we don't know exactly what the ancient "Philistines" called themselves. We do know that (like the ancient Israelites) they were conquered, enslaved, and exiled to Babylon in 604 BCE, where over time they lost their unique ethnic identity. By the late fifth century BC they had vanished from both historical and archaeological records as a distinct group. The Greek term stuck though, and was reappropriated by Arab nationalists in the last 150 years or so
I'm not Israeli or Jewish either, but I always felt that Hamas--with Islam at its core--was actually more in line with Palestinian beliefs and aspirations than the PLO was (with its pan-nationalist, secular, socialist leanings). If you accept that idea, it actually explains a lot of what's happened over the past 40-50 years. The Palestinians were willing to give the PLO and old-fashioned terrorism a shot, but I never got the vibe that they were super-interested in compromise or a Palestinian state on the West Bank. Enthusiasm for that seemed to come mainly from their Western-educated leaders--some of whom were actually realistic and operated in good faith--and the West itself. If you look at the rise of Hamas and the decline of the PLO/PA as a product of popular dissatisfaction with whole idea of compromise or "settlement," you realize that the notion of "resistance" is the animating force at the center of Palestinian society, and the idea of compromising is viewed as synonymous with defeat. The Palestinians have never been able to "sign on the dotted line" for exactly that reason.
Without radical Islam and nefarious foreign backers in the mix, the Palestinian people would have made a deal a long time ago, received a ton of money and a chunk of land from Israel for everything they've gone through, and probably a bunch of them would have been granted Right of Return, with numbers of returnees increasing very gradually over time. Olmert, for example, was willing to allow 10,000 returnees. But radical Islam doesn't allow for that kind of compromise, and so the Palestinians more or less end up dooming themselves, constantly and repeatedly. They can't help it. They're programmed at this point, and it's almost impossible for them to think in another way.
That is a very interesting contention and I would be curious about how to measure that. I think it shows the malleability of culture: During the first phases of the Cold War era, communist ideology came to dominate Arab intellectual life, and it wasn't until after its defeat in 1967 that Islam returned to popularity in response
I agree, and I wish those coexistence-seeking leaders had gotten more traction, but alas they were out-propaganized and outgunned
That is extremely well put
That is sadly the case, which makes clear that they had and have agency. Although I am much more inclined to focus on structural explanations than cultural ones, I think the role of "honor"-based cycles of revenge in Arab culture (driven by a lack of the rule of law) also makes pragmatic dealmaking difficult, and that hasn't helped matters
You mentioned foreign backers earlier and I think that plays the decisive role here. Covert and overt foreign support drives culture, promotes or discourages religions, enables or disables the rule of law, and delimits the politically possible
One of the most important parts to the definition of fascism is autocracy, but neither Palestinian form of government has a fascist autocracy.
Hamas rule is definitely an autocracy. There are no internal checks on Sinwar's power. None
The same applies to Fatah and the PA. There are no checks and balances on the "executive branch", the leaders of which have effective impunity
They have authoritarian systems of government to varying degrees (certainly much more in Gaza), but a fascist autocracy was highly organized and centralized. It was based on an entirely different ideology that involved a single figure driving all elements of a country for the common good.
Fascists don't stop being fascist just because they're disorganized or decentralized, although Hamas is both highly organized and highly centralized. The PLO is too
What defines them as fascist is their vision for the kind of society they want to create and why and how they want to create it. They don't have to be competent. Fascists often aren't (thankfully)
I didn't say that they had to be competent, but if you look at Hitler or Mussolili, classic fascism involves an autocratic leader being in control of many more elements of society. The ideology was that the public gave up their control while their leader controlled everything for the common good with regard to the master plan.
With Hamas, they have far more singular goals, so they aren't as in control of elements like the economy outside of their own gain.
By definition Zionism is also Fascism because they promote the idea that anyone who opposes them should be punished.
Israel has a social hierarchy as well Christians and Muslims are treated as lesser and especially Muslims have to deal with armed guards at places like Al-Aqsa mosque. And the idea that the Jews are God's chosen people is also a slap to the face to even Christians because they don't believe their going to heaven for rejecting Jesus PBUH but Christians continue to love Jews even when the Jews hate the Christians. Meanwhile Muslims are taught to love the Christians and the Jews. God's chosen people is a call to superiority which is a social hierarchy.
I'm not saying your wrong in saying pro-Palestine is a form of fascism but if the argument you have is their fascist and if your against fascism you should be against Palestine is not a good argument because it goes both ways.
So the best thing to do is not take a side.
I respect that you are engaging with my argument in good faith and although I may seem brusque, I will do likewise
That's not the definition of fascism. I discussed the definition of fascism in my article. Re-read the first part
Native American reservations don't become fascist just because they privilege members of their tribes. I don't see how it's any different for Israel
In light of the long history of Palestinian terrorism, having armed guards around potential high-value targets seems only prudent
I've been to the Al Aqsa mosque. All I had to do to get in was recite the shahada
I'm not a theologian but my understanding from my Jewish friends is that that's not necessarily a good thing.. Their identity has, throughout history, made them a target
Religious disagreements are not anything like a slap in the face. A slap in the face is a physical attack. Religious disagreements are just matters of opinion, to which everyone is freely entitled
I don't think that's an accurate characterization. I think some Jewish people see Christians and Muslims as weird copycats who selectively imitate aspects of Judaism while claiming to have newer and better prophets, but frankly they have a point. Christianity and Islam are both clearly derived from Judaism. Judaism was there first
Not in the madrassas I've visited! That has always been just words. In practice, the most active strains of political Islam view Christianity and Judaism as inferior and want to impose an Islamic waqf on the land between the river and the sea by force
So do you agree that pro-Palestine is a form of fascism? If so, we may find that I agree with you in other areas as well
I see your logic there, but I don't think Zionism per se is fascist. Indigenous rights movements can be fascist, but in Zionism I don't see the mythology of phoenix-like rebirth through the fire of sacrificial violence against internal scapegoats and external "subhumans" that defines palingenetic ultranationalism
I disagree there. I think making false equivalencies between victim and aggressor is dangerous and wrong, and I think Palestinians (some Nazi, some Communist, some Christian, and most Muslim) have repeatedly been the aggressor against Israelis since the Nebi Musa riots in 1920, on through 1948, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1987, 2000, and most recently on October 7th
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Israel isn't fascist because it has fair elections, and is therefore a democracy. Fascism can't be democratic.
Palestine also has elections and Hitler was democratically elected as well. We have term limits in the US to ensure we don't have a dictator while Netanyahu is using Hamas to continue his political career.
I agree with you that Gaza is not a fascist society, but Israel certainly isn't. Hitler was elected, yes, but then he was enthroned as dictator. Netanyahu has to bow to the will of different political parties in order to maintain a government. A lack of term limits does not make someone a dictator, otherwise FDR would be considered one as well.
How is Gaza not fascist?
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This comparison to Nazi Germany is not allowed here (rule 6).
No, Palestine doesn't have elections. Nazi Germany also didn't have elections. Yes Hitler was elected in 1933 - Germany wasn't fascist during the election. It became fascist after the election.
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PSA: Zionism is a fascist ideology. Here's why. (Palestinian-ism is not a real word btw).
OH MY GOD this literally Sounds JUST like Israel trynna justify the occupation of Palestinian land doesn't it? "The Jews were owed this land" "we lived here for centuries before Palestinians (just ignore the face we were born in Europe)".
-And the nation must be reborn and grown larger, phoenix-like, from the ashes of its downtrodden state through the cleansing fire of violence against those out-groups (especially their allies among the "common people"): Palestinian civilians being the target of violent uproars in west bank by the Israelis. Israel bombing Lebanon, targeting people in support of Palestine even in their own country?
-And the seizure of their land and property, regardless of how many "common people" must be sacrificed in this process of violent "purification": Israel seizing ancestral homes and land, and then raining collective punishment on the people of Gaza. Israelis trynna justify the genocide, and orthodox Jewish people coining a term similar to "purification" to refer to the bombings of the gaza province.
Ah yes Israel, the country that preaches multi-ethnic pluralistic democracy until, an arab shows up and has an opposing POV. Lets not even mention the clear biases towards Jewish zionists and treating Palestinians like second class citizens in their OWN land.
Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. Do you think indigenous people have a claim to land they have continuously inhabited for thousands of years, or not?
Indigenous rights movements can be fascist, but in Zionism I don't see the mythology of phoenix-like rebirth through the fire of sacrificial violence against internal scapegoats and external "subhumans" that defines palingenetic ultranationalism
What I see is a determination to live in the land that their ancestors lived in for thousands of years. The Israelis didn't start this war. Arab mobs did, in 1920 and repeatedly since, and they have continued to wield genocidal mob violence against Jewish people to this day
I have seen Israelis repeatedly try to coexist. Name a Palestinian leader who wants to coexist with Israel in a two-state solution
I can name a couple because of my experience on the ground, but you can't because they aren't very prominent and they will be murdered by Hamas or the one of the other Palestinian terror cults if they ever become so
Arab people in Israel are remarkably enfranchised. Arab Israelis have civil rights (more than in any Arab country) and play important roles in society. One of the generals leading the attack on Hamas is Arab-Israeli
Indigenous land rights movements privilege indigenous people. If you don't like indigenous land rights movements, ok, but you can't logically claim to support indigenous land rights for Palestinians without also supporting them for Israelis.. and the Israelis have a much stronger claim
According to Arab Israelis, that's not really a thing. They don't seem to think they're living under "apartheid"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQAFmJMLtJQ
Zionism is an indigenous rights movement. Do you think indigenous people have a claim to land they have continuously inhabited for thousands of years, or not?
Not quite. Zionism is a movement began by European Jews who had not touched Palestine/Israel for 2000 years.
Sayd Hammami comes to mind. You are correct in the assumption they'd get assassinated by the radicald militarized groups, and its precisely for that reason that I will not be talking any names over here. But the fact that you can even name some proves that there are Palestinians who WANT a two state solution, much like my grandparents. the only caviat being that all of them want east Jerusalem aka Al-Aqsa as the capital.
Well of course i support indigenous rights! that's why i support Palestinian rights? what do you think happened to the people of israel all those years ago? they didn't all magically disappear, they converted to islam or christianity or some remained jewish all throughout. The Palestinians (aka the so-called 'arabs') ARE the descendants of the people of israel. What do you think Jewish communities called themselves before the 1940s? Palestinians. My grandfather literally had Jewish Palestinian neighbors. after (and even before) the war of mecca and the fall of bani-israel, the now Jewish ancestors of Palestinians mingled together with the muslims & christians and some families converted (due to Islam APPARENTLY offering more updated and more favorable laws to them at the time when it came to the working class primarily.) descending down to what we now know as Palestine.
Source: I have been literally studying Religion and History professionally for about 10 years now.
Not denying the second class treatment of orthodox jews by the subsequent ottoman empire which is WIDELY considered a 'one of the worst atrocities' by the arabs (yes including the Palestinians being bombed!) to say the least, but there was never a widespread invasion of jewish villages by the central governing power. muslims, jews and christians, mostly all lived together and kept to themselves and their religious obligations.
Not really no, most jewish communities were swallowed up by Israel after its independence. And Israel has strict laws against anti-Semitism like you probably would've guessed. oh Genocide? like the one israel is committing right now? Israelis started this war by initiating the roots of the Nakbah. 'The determination' to live on a land that they have not lived on for thousands of years, that they have no claim to unless they're part Palestinian or the "arabs" they hate so much. (see line 7)
The arabs that are interviewed here are from the latter part of the annexation, are the upper class rich (and i mean the people who's grandparents practically were draped in gold and refused to leave even after incredibly pressure) who managed to hold on to their lands barely before being the only ones given rights by the proxy of their generational wealth, or are straight up from other arab countries like UAE.
Much stronger claim to what? the land that they were given by the British after WWII? or the land that they SUPPOSEDLY had 15,000 years ago. because apparently after so many centuries, they're only NOW (falsely) realizing that they inhabited that land. Honestly give me a good 'claim to land' and i can debunk it lmao. Kingdom of Israel? portion of land (Large in a historical context) located near temple mound aka Jerusalem (important thing to note is that that Jerusalem itself was in the kingdom of judah) with a west frontier spreading to the Mediterranean sea. NOWHERE NEAR the size of Israel.
I love how even after there were protest by ethnic JEWISH people in US about all of this y'all are still denying and tryna pull the same propaganda shit for years.
Ok! Then we're getting somewhere. You must support Jewish indigenous rights too then
They were subject to repeated genocides, enslavements, and forced migrations, interspersed with repeated returns, but Jews have continuously inhabited the land between the river and the sea since long before Islam or Christianity existed
Genetic studies show that Jewish populations have tended to form genetic isolates – relatively closely related groups in independent communities with most in a community sharing significant ancestry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews
Genetic research disagrees with you on that one
They have clearly been calling themselves Jews for a few thousand years now. I'm not aware of historical records in which they referred to themselves as "Palestinians" without the Jewish part. Are you?
How often compared to the other? There have been conversions going in all directions throughout history, although Islam's conquest of "Bani-Israel" would imply that Islam's claim to the land between the river and the sea is illegitimate (being derived through conquest, it could be removed through conquest)
Bless you. I studied the history of the region in Lebanon, Jordan, the West Bank, and to a very small extent also in Israel
The Ottoman persecutions of Christians and Druze in Lebanon, and also Christians in Armenia and elsewhere, disagree with you on that one
How not? The historical record on the Nebi Musa riots is quite clear. Arabs started this fight, relatively recently, in 1920. They keep restarting the fight, they keep losing, and they keep deserving to because they keep starting it
"Swallowed up"? Pretty much all Jewish communities were active participants in the fight for their self-defense against the Arab armies in 1948
Come on.. If Israel actually wanted to commit genocide against the Arabs, they would have long ago done so. Instead the Arab population has grown exponentially
The Israelis did not initiate the Nabi Musa riots and they are not responsible for them. Amin al Hussaini and his unambiguously fascist clique did and are, as I pointed out in my article
I don't understand that part
Why would you assume that? You have no basis to do so. You don't know the family histories of the Arab people being interviewed there and neither do I
Do you mean like the Sursocks, who owned vast amounts of land between the river and the sea and sold it (very profitably!) to Jewish returnees?
The land described as "Israel" on the Merneptah Stele
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele
The ancient Egyptians didn't call it "Palestine". They called it Israel. That makes for a strong claim right there
Habibi I'm Lebanese
(and also American and a bunch of other things)
I am not sure what you mean by "we're getting somewhere" LMAO.
FunFact! no it doesn't:
"Genetic studies indicate a genetic affinity between Palestinians and other Levantine populations, as well as other Arab and Semitic groups in the Middle East and North Africa.[15][16] Genetic studies have also shown a close genetic relationship between Palestinians and Jews,[17][18][19] suggesting a shared ancestral heritage."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians#:~:text=Genetic%20studies%20indicate%20a%20genetic,suggesting%20a%20shared%20ancestral%20heritage.
I am not sure why we're bringing the topic of christian persecution while topic is palestine and israel.
yeah. because those Jewish communities were part of Israel after its independence.....
Accept I do know the history of the few upper class Palestinians currently living in israel. like I've already mentioned I am Palestinian. The audacity for you tell us that we don't know about our most traumatic scar as a nation.
Jewish "returnees" surely you don't mean the hoards of people from europe? who had been living in europe all their lives? who had parents and grandparents who had never even been to the middle east?
The ancient Egyptians died thousands of years ago. I don't think we should be using what they called this land, as a "gotcha" moment. Lest
You should provide sources. Not saying you aren't correct, Hamas in its fundamental principle is founded on the concept of jihad which most educated Palestinians do oppose. I am not muslim but my grandparents are Palestinians and were the victims of the first nakbah.
Hamas is not made up of mainly these people however. Most of its militants are people who have been in one way or another affected by Israel, whether directly or indirectly. Most of the newer recruits in fact are probably young men who had families lost from the last Gaza war. This is common sense and something I will elaborate on with an example later in this article.
This Is in stark contrast to IDF soldiers, many of whom murder palestinians in mass hoards, trying to use the the ethnic cleansing of jews as an excuse when most of them weren't even alive 50 years after the holocaust.
Palestinians who are seeking AID: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-admits-army-shot-dead-over-100-palestinians-seeking-aid/3153081
killing their own hostages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLFhBesFnVQ
Or deliberately targeting civillians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIOabuMU3n4
The source that you provided is written by a hardcore Israeli Zionist. Yep no biases there no siree.
Also were the 10000 children listed here: https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/ also had rockets strapped to their backs that were been thrown in telaviv?? did Hind Rajab and her family who were trying to escape gaza, have rockets and bombs strapped to their head??
Lets simplify:
If California started invading Texas with settler colonies and large military raids that wipes out entire neighborhoods, you best believe Texans would start shooting and firing large rockets too in desperate attempts to fend off the libs(tm). And you best believe that they would also be creating terror organizations, and recruiting victims of those large military raids.
Lets simplify:
If California started invading Texas with settler colonies and large military raids that wipes out entire neighborhoods, you best believe Texans would start shooting and firing large rockets too in desperate attempts to fend off the libs(tm). And you best believe that they would also be creating terror organizations, and recruiting victims of those large military raids.
Hope this helped!
Keep in mind that I have just ran through the basic outline of the whole post, there are still somethings I have probably missed honestly.
It very much is. And anti semitic as well. It’s spoiled kids who don’t understand enough to know what they’re supporting
It needs to be said, loud and clear: Those hippie kids got brainwashed so hard they now support fascism
Yes!
Of course Palestinian nativism is far-right supremacism. Why the left supports them is a mystery.
It's because the Axis propaganda machine is really loud right now. Mass brainwashing is the most logical explanation
Very well written and factual sources provided.
Here come all the whataboutisms to ignore the facts
Thank you! Is there anywhere else you think I should post this?
r/exmuslim would love this please share it over there
Well written, amazing work
Thank you! Is there anywhere else you think I should post this?
I would keep it and use it in response to comments where applicable
Wow, you've got a seriously twisted idea of reality.
Cognitive dissonance
Do you think anything in my article is incorrect, or are you just mad at the facts because they make you feel confused and uncomfortable?
I read the entire post and no Israel (the government) is fascist. Bibi is fascist. I am so sorry to tell you that cause I do deeply feel horrible for how Judaism have been co-opted by political zionism and the amount of propaganda that has been used to justify their actions.
How do you figure? I've laid out a structured argument that Palestinian ideology is fascist, starting from the definition of fascism and explaining how it qualifies
I see Zionism as an indigenous rights movement. Those can be fascist, but I don't see the mythology of phoenix-like rebirth through the fire of sacrificial violence against internal scapegoats and external "subhumans" that defines palingenetic ultranationalism
There isn't a Palestinian "ideology", they are a group of people that have lived under occupation fighting for freedom and resisting such occupation. . I understand longing to go back but there were and still are Palestinian jews thus the need for such movement did not even make logical sense. You also mention the "wars" / "riots" without recognizing the effort of the zionist group that also caused violence prior to the establishment of Israel. This was not one sided - the jewish group, Irgun (founded in the 1920s) has been noted as a terrorist group.
There is difference in political zionism that is modern and has used tactics such as occupation, force, dehumanizing tactics, nationalism to create an ethno-state that prioritizes one group of people over another. We also see this in the identity of being Israeli over the identity of Judaism (i.e., political speaking Judaism has been co-opted). As well as the long list of human rights violations from the occupation.
Israel is also not a democracy as self determination is only prioritized for the jewish people and over Arab-Israelis. (this is shown in the Nation-State Bill passed in 2018).
Overall - there should never be us vs. them but that is the language Israel uses and weaponizes against Palestinians. Both jews and Palestinians have indigenous ties to the land. Palestinians are made up of jewish/christian and muslim individuals which provides a religiously open society for all where as Israel only prioritizes Judaism (again another example of lack of democracy) thus looking at the bases of fascism Israels current government and need to be the dominate religion/ethnicity falls within that category.
This sub being pro-Israel as usual. Yawn.
u/b__q
Complaining about the subreddit rather than making productive comments is metaposting. This is not allowed here (rule 7),
Do you think anything in my article is incorrect, or are you just mad at the facts because they make you feel confused and uncomfortable?
Israel is literally a fascist state that's committing a genocide. Maybe focus on that first. 🤷♂️
By which definition of fascism? Do you know theories of fascism?
Can you refute anything OP posted (with facts, logic, and reputable sources)? Or are you just repeating buzz words?
You are trying to reverse victim and perpetrator. It's not going to work
yall are not beating the genocide charges
Do you honestly believe that they'll actually charge Israel with genocide?
Yes
For the world's sake, I hope not. Every modern war would get slapped with a genocide charge.
Most modern wars are terrible, yea, but what the IDF has been doing in Gaza takes it to another level. The ICC has a warrant out for Netanyahu’s arrest for crimes against humanity.
Suka I'm Lebanese
(and American, and a bunch of other things)
Is swearing in Russian the new cool thing, or just a cheap attempt to evade the mods?
I'm just being clear about what side he's on
And you're on the same side as him, Putin, Xi, and the Ayatollah, obviously
u/thesayke. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. (Rule 2)
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