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Hear me out... A show about a middle aged married couple with no kids. Both working full time jobs and barely making ends meet. Their broke father/FIL living in their basement not paying rent.
The only difference today is it applies to most of the US and they absolutely would not be able to make it in the house they had in Queens.
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Doug and Carrie. Doug and Carrie. Doug and Carrie. Doug and Carrie.
Arthur Arthur Arthur Arthur Arthur Arthur Arthur Arthur!
Doug and Carrie Doug and Carrie Doug and Carrie
Doug and pizza, Doug and pizza, Doug and pizza, Doug and pizza...
Toppings Toppings Toppings Toppings Toppings
Salami, salami, salami, salami!
This is probably one of the most vivid things I remember from the show. That and the episode where there was a painting of Carrie with bear-like arms.
We quote it all the time, and the one I use a lot is Arthur “debating” Spence on normalizing relations with Cuba, when Arthur just says, “If you’re so keen on normalizing something, why don’t you start with your face?” and then feels proud that he’s such a great debater.
"I still got it!"
https://youtu.be/In1pSP0K5Sw
I don't think it was really ahead of it's time. Life has been like this for a lot of us forever. If you grew up in a lower class large metro area in the 90's 00's you had to accept being priced out of real estate, living in multigenerational homes, etc at a very early age.
I think a lot of people on this subreddit simply grew up privileged and never realized it until they lost it.
I think this is the first time (at least for our generation) we've seen the middle class bleed into the lower class instead of the upper. Everyone agrees that the middle class is shrinking but up until COVID most were in agreement it was because people were moving up a class, unless they had an agenda. This means it's the first time in a very long time life is worse for the kids than it was for their parents so it's getting called out more.
Yeah, the people who spend all their time complaining about how hard life is grew up middle class or upper middle class and never learned that their parents had to spend a lot of time and effort to give them that life. They thought you just graduate high school and are immediately handed a nice life with zero effort and are having a meltdown when faced with reality.
I agree with that to an extent, but I think it is less about working hard as it is opportunities.
My parents worked their ass off, for sure, but they also landed great jobs almost immediately after they left high school and/or college, ones that allowed them to buy homes, start a family, save for retirement, etc.
I was almost 30 before I landed my first "real" job and I don't think that's uncommon for many of us in here. So, comparatively, I'm playing catch up perpetually.
I’d say I landed my first real, career-worthy job only last year at age 33.
My Dad was more set by the time he was 26-27. And that was after he flunked out of college, got a different degree somewhere else and was later blacklisted from that field, and got his uncle to get him a nepotism job at the power plant that he managed.
And a lot of those great jobs now require degrees, so add an extra 4-10 years and thousands of dollars to get there. My parents were a bit shocked when we had them look at what it would require for them to get the same jobs now if they were starting from zero again.
Yeah exactly this. My partner (30) grew up solidly middle class, but his parents were dirt poor themselves growing up. His dad has an associates in Electrical Engineering, his mom only has a HS diploma, and they both worked their way up the corporate ladder at major international companies, where they’ve each been for 20+ years. There’s no way either of them could do that in our time.
My mom was a postal worker in the 80's and we were middle class. Not exactly years of schooling and grinding the company ladder
I mean that’s a decently paying government job with government hours and benefits… that’s far from a bad gig even today
Letter carriers get paid the same regardless of location, current city carrier starting wage is ~22 an hour. You have waiting periods before raises are possible, and after 13 years you can max out at 76k a year. The hours she had were great, but it wasn't a "grind away forever to get us where we got" The house they bought was 50k! Currently estimated for 300k. There is only so much grinding someone can do to make that difference up.
The average GS-5, which is just above entry-level, makes about $30-35k depending on locality. That's not livable even in many rural areas now. The benefits are decent, but it's hard to justify good benefits when you're paycheck to paycheck.
Yeah but the change from a postal worker earning enough to be able to support their family on one income to not didn't happen overnight. The consumer trends of the past 30-40 years have been shouting that demand for postal service workers is decreasing as fewer and fewer people utilize post. As the demand for postal workers decreased, their wage growth slowed way down. People knew in the early 2000s that it was risky to plan your future around being a postal worker, at least if you wanted to be upper middle class and have a house and family.
I think part of the problem is a lot of people didn't think about or didn't care about what jobs would be in high demand in the future. Everyone said tech/IT specialists would be making bank in the future and, they are.
None of what you said is incorrect but it has nothing to do with how hard my parents worked to get where they were when we were kids. She responded to a help wanted ad in the newspaper. There was not a long grind.
Sure but its also that in some metro areas, you can be considered lower/lower middle class by making $80k a year. You can work hard, get a decent paying job, and still have a hard time making ends meet.
That’s a pretty reductive way of assessing people freaking out about the future.
Multigenerational homes are a feature, not a bug, within latino society. Miami has a bunch of grandmas living in the back room, older children staying and building up savings, even some stories of parents and child swapping the dynamic. Child does well enough to finish whatever is left of the mortgage and then the parent lives with the child, trading main bedroom away. It's not a nightmare situation, it's just normal. And an incredibly efficient method of building savings and wealth very quickly. I had to leave for my job but my sister stayed at home until like 29. She worked a professional job for years paying a fraction of normal life overhead. Between college and 29 she saved enough to take out a mortgage, solo. While throwing a crap ton into retirement. While having savings diversified and gaining interest. I got a higher paying job in a higher paying industry and she's dunking on me so hard right now.
I think you spent very little time thinking about this before generalizing to the extreme. I'm afraid to know any of your other "opinions."
I'm sorry reality hurts your feelings so much.
I didn't know what the reality of a low IQ is like but I appreciate the viewpoint.
Ok boomer
If you think only Boomers are fiscally responsible and hardworking, that perfectly explains why you failed in life.
That's a fair assessment. I grew up in a 100 year old house that the kids on the bus would laugh at (saying it should be condemned), with parents that both worked full time jobs and made enough money for us to have one moderate car and one crappy car, food on the table, and heating and AC. And clothes enough to not get made fun of at school.
But as an elder millennial, I realize that I grew up in the most warm, loving household I could probably imagine. No, we didn't have much in any way in terms of material possessions, but I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything. So when I hear people complain that they have to work full time jobs and scrape by with no money to spend on entertainment or cars or whatever, I think "my parents did that for decades and created the most amazing life ever for me and my siblings...and I don't know if I ever heard them complain".
Well...I did hear them complain sometimes, because something was always broken with a car or the house. But...anyway, yeah, I agree with your sentiment.
This. Reddit was my first exposure to people "normalizing" inheritances, down payment assistance from parents, keeping adult children on their family plans, paying off student loan debt, etc. It was talked about so much in various subreddits I was flabbergasted. None of this stuff is "new".
Even the constant talks and articles from out of touch publications talking about millennials waiting for their parents to die to get an inheritance is unfathomable to me. My parents don't even have life insurance anymore. I'm sure one has absolutely $0 saved for retirement and the other has $40k and they're both approaching their 60s. Idk what inheritance I'm waiting for...
I’m kind of with you on this. I grew up low income in a rural town, where most people also were low income, and I never had an expectation that I would get an inheritance or any kind of financial help from my parents as an adult. I was able to graduate without student loan debt because I won a lot of scholarships and I was able to live with extended family for free while I was in college.
Going to college was the first time I heard about anybody talking about an inheritance really. It was something that was hard for me as a young adult to grapple with the fact that so many people i encountered were not appreciative of what they had growing up.
Meanwhile, my husband grew up high income and has a 529 education account along with a trust fund specifically for educational purposes. He never graduated from college but if he wanted to go back, he would definitely not have to go into student debt for it.
The issue is more that they didn't lose it, it was taken away from them. Upward mobility is almost gone, middle and lower middle class wages are gone, affordable housing is gone, etc. My parents worked extremely hard and gave me a good childhood. I am one of the fortunate ones who has gotten a few lucky breaks in life and it has lead to a well paying career. I make more than double what my parents have ever made combined yet I don't have nearly the same opportunities to improve my life or my kids lives they had.
It took 10 years to reach this point in my career - I thought I'd really be living lavishly once I reached this goal. Nope. Somehow with twice the money and education, I still have half the opportunities my parents did.
My parents paid $60k for their tiny house in 1997 - it would go for at least triple that now. And shelter is just one aspect to consider - all the other necessities have skyrocketed too.
Yep, that's exactly the issue. Everything is way more expensive and it's at the point where even good wages don't keep up. Like, don't feel bad for me, I'll be fine; I'm okay driving old cars and not taking much in the way of vacations. I'm worried about the people who haven't been as fortunate as I have been, and especially my kids. I'm growing increasingly concerned for what they'll have to deal with when they are adults.
Nailed it down to the t. I feel like 95% of Reddit is like this though.
Well yeah. Everybody’s constantly talking about the declining standard of living of the middle class.
Yeah they had a lot nicer house than I did growing up
Oh yeah I’m so privileged because I grew up in Iowa instead of New York
I mean, in NYC and most suburbs you realize around elementary school your only hope of owning a home is waiting for your parents to die and inheriting it. Crazy to me so many people think unaffordable housing is a new concept.
I’m from Queens- born and raised This is reality and has been forever
Except now Doug and Carrie are not affording that house in queens on a Ups and Admin job
If Doug was still a driver for UPS he'd be at the top of the pay scale making 170k a year. They'd be fine.
He actually would not be making 170k. The 170k number is for TOTAL benefits at the end of the contract in 2028. 49/hr will be top rate in 2028 and at 40hrs a week that puts him at 101k. With OT he might see 125-130k before tax.
If you want a REAL REAL take on this TV trope, watch "Kevin Can Go Fuck Himself". Great premise where the reality of the bumbling fat funny oath is put under the microscope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubiQsc9Hw8
holy shit that was a good show. I randomly stumbled across it while on shrooms when it first came out which made the premise and cinematography that much more intriguing
It's brilliant how she gets trapped in HIS "perfect" little world whenever he's around..... Then when he's gone it's so bleak and reality sets in.
That show was such a trip watching the pilot with no idea what was going on at first.
Ok but is this real or fan made? Because now I want to watch it, lol
it's a real show, stars Annie Murphy from Schitt's Creek
I like her.... But god is The Kevin hard to look at. Those cold empty civil war soldier photograph eyes.
Came here to say this. Kevin is a awesome dark twist on King of Queens and that whole style of sitcom.
I'll have to check it out. Youtube? Or a link?
It’s on Amazon prime
I just checked and it requires AMC+.
Aw that’s a bummer :( maybe I watched season 1 on a free trial or something
Jerry Stiller was the real star of that show! Leah was fine but her character was ordinary, Kevin was obnoxious, but Jerry was hilarious!
When he drives that motorcycle into the garage.......i die every time
Then he attacks Mr Safety 😂
lol great scene….he moves great for a large guy, quite athletic…..I lol at the trampoline basketball scene when i hits his had on the backboard and knocks himself out
That show was also funnier than I would’ve given it credit for on the surface. Like many random sitcoms, I discovered it thanks to TBS reruns.
Patton Oswalt's stand up comedy is next level. Highly recommend seeing him live if you ever get the chance.
As child-free adults who are now older than the leads, my wife and I find it relatable and tbh it's one of our go-to comfort shows. I wouldn't call it ahead of its time, but I would say it's aged relatively well for a 90s/00s show. (I.e. it's not rendered unwatchable by homophobia, sexism, etc, like some shows of the era... ever tried re-watching "My Name Is Earl"?)
If it matters they were child free because they were struggling to get pregnant. They ended up adopting and having one of their own in the end. They wanted kids.
Technically you're right, but the "struggling to get pregnant" part was a season-finale episode (IIRC) that doesn't really get mentioned again, and the end of the show is, well, the end. I actually think it's fitting that the story ends when they have kids, lol.
It's not like the majority of the show is them pining over not having kids or something. Quite the opposite, they're just living life without them.
In the earlier seasons there was mention of a miscarriage and Carrie not wanting to go through it again.
I’m pretty sure Doug mentioned a few times about wanting them but Carrie was the one on the fence. There is an episode in season 8 where Doug tries to show her he would be a good dad but she thinks he is irresponsible. That isn’t the final season.
There are a lot of ‘that’s gay’ type of jokes actually. But I consider it a comfort show too, I have been watching it a ton during my maternity leave and I watch it at bedtime sometimes too.
Editing to add an example I just saw, Doug and Carrie are arguing about their china and she asks him what pattern it is, and he says what pattern? …gay!
You're totally right. I mean the whole Danny/Spence running gag is that they're too much like a couple. By no means is that stuff absent, but like I said, relative to other media of that era (and what I remember of growing up in that era myself) it doesn't feel as mean-spirited as it could be. Maybe that's just me though, YMMV.
Right-i was more surprised at how casually they use ‘gay’ to mean lame or whatever. I mean, I grew up with that, but I didn’t remember it being so benign/accepted outside of middle school haha
Sure, there were a couple of suggestive comments made towards Spence. And even Spencer jokes that his Tivo thinks he's gay. But if I remember right, they never use derogatory language. I actually thought they did a great job showing acceptance. Early on we see Deacon being apprehensive about his son maybe being gay - there's a Halloween episode where Kirby dresses as a Power Puff girl, and another episode where he's intrigued by Carrie's lipstick. But later on there is an episode where Deacon is in a pizza shop with Doug where he tells another guy that his son is gay and that he loves him a lot (paraphrasing from memory here).
"game night.... more like gay night"
I'm just here to remind everyone that Doug and Carrie are in their late 20s during the first season, at least Carrie is preparing for her 30th birthday in one episode 🫠
Yes. It's still great.
I started a rewatch recently after not seeing it for years, and while much of it holds up, there were many scenes and lines that just elicit groans and eye rolls. It feels like the target audience is post-911 George Bush voters, and I guess it probably was.
The show falls apart pretty quickly after the first season or so, regardless. First jail, then a literal coma, wtf. They should have just stuck to the formula of doing list items. IIRC there was a writers' strike during the show's airing and it did not recover from that.
Oh no, what have I forgotten about MNIE???
Mostly I was struck by transphobia. The "one joke" (i.e. "that woman is really a man") was repeated often enough to notice. There was some garden-variety homophobia but it's usually played off as Earl and/or his friends being ignorant rather than authorial approval, but the transphobic stuff just comes across as unfunny and mean-spirited.
Maybe a solid representation of a changing of times? A lot of the sitcoms that pre-date King of Queens are family based and have stay at home mothers one salary homes and almost never ending income... like Family Matters, Fresh Prince or even its counterpart with similar air dates Everybody Loves Raymond.
What are you talking about? Everybody Loves Raymond is the only family sitcom you listed with a stay at home mom. Harriet and aunt Vivian worked in jobs comparable to their husbands.
Where did this obsession with sitcom houses come from? Or the family income. When did it come up? I don't think any of them were even filmed in a real home. They were open sets that needed to be big to fit cameras in and to accommodate having 7 active cast members.
Unless they specified that there was only one income it should be assumed that they work off camera or something.
Seriously, I'm not being a smart ass here.
You got Urkle running around being all wacky and the thing you notice is that their houses are too big?
Lol I'm starting to think people watch shows incorrectly.
I mean OP made this whole post thinking the show was ahead of its time because a couple doesn’t have kids, a close family member lives with them and they aren’t rich. I’m guessing they’re either young or just completely unaware that this isn’t something new.
In another post I saw someone saying how no generation before the current (gen z?) has ever dealt with employment issues like we have today. So I’m really starting to think people posting this stuff online have no idea what they’re talking about. Which is a bit ironic because that’s not new either lol
Yeah, Doug and Carrie are basically a much wealthier version of "The Honeymooners."
yes, many times. earl is great
I don’t think homophobia, sexism and other “problematic” shit are out of place in My Name is Earl.
The demographic on that show still talks that way to this day