Which one of these fourth installment is the best and which is the worst?

Bonnie is only playing with woody because he’s forcing himself to Bonnie, only because of Forky.

...wat. very nice, but it would work better if he were a human and not a toy. Which is not the case. Are the intentions of this like freeing himself from the cycle of attachment sort of thing? weird step to take.

its so sad that they are digging toy story into the grave

Woody basically has his character arc from Toy Story 1, except he doesn’t learn that it’s okay if Andy plays with other toys, and that he isn’t replaceable to him, instead he leaves all his friends behind just to go with Bo Peep, a random side character who is nothing like she was in the previous films.

I mean yeah it’s a pointless cash grab, but you have to actually judge to movie on its own merits.

GamingMagic13, is that you?

...not as much as GamingMagic13...

1: you're allowed to have physical continuity errors foor the purposes of having a scene. Your favourite movie does this, I guarantee it. Stop nitpicking.

2: It's fine. No stranger than Riley being able to get out of her mom's sight and up the stairs in the time it takes for her to turn around. It's a kid's movie, small things like that happen, it's called a NITPICK.

3.

Creating a BS scene to gaslight the audience into forgetting how Bo actually acts is insulting.

Changing a character from a one dimensional trope on two legs into someone with agency, desires and purpose is not a flaw, and making a scene to illustrate this character change is not gaslighting. It's not even a massive character change, she's just as kind and passive in this scene but with more agency and fire, which might make sense for her given the seemingly year or two gap between this scene and Toy Story 2.

They couldn’t even get the dress design right because they knew it wouldn’t work for action scenes!

"They couldn't even get Batman's eye shadow to stay 100% consistent in the middle of a scene because it wouldn't work for him taking off the mask!"

What, you didn't notice that? That's funny, I didn't notice Bo's dress had changed either. You know why? Because that's a stupid ass NITPICK. You have to be actively looking for flaws to notice this shit.

4: Dolly acts the same, she's a mostly laid back leader of the team who wants what's best for Bonnie. Right now, Woody's getting on her nerves, so she's dismissive of him.

She has like five lines in this movie anyway, why would it matter so much if she had slightly changed? Are we nitpicking again? Is it absolutely integral to the quality of the film that one side character remains 100% consistent in the 1-2 years between films? No.

5: The heavy implication is that the general neglect has been happening for a while. It's pretty believable for me, personally, since clearly spending years in a toy chest did in fact cause him a lot of mental hurt, and he did spend Toy Story 1 becoming insanely jealous over taking only the number 2 spot against Buzz. In that movie, he learned not to be a jealous asshole, which is why he isn't here, but obviously it still feels bad to be neglected while everyone else still gets to have fun with their kid. And that's as far as it goes in this first act, he doesn't start considering leaving until he meets Bo and realises that Bonnie doesn't actually need him, and what he needs is to discover how much more there can be to life.

6: no they're not. At all.

7 No she's not, at all. And even if she was why the fuck would that matter? Maybe having a bad teacher in this scene is supposed to be part of Bonnie having a rough day. How would that be a flaw? But she's not a bad teacher, and you know why? NOT NOTICING ONE THING IN A CLASSROOM FILLED WITH TODDLERS IS FUCKING NORMAL. If thqt was a qualifier for being a bad teacher, there are zero good teachers. NITPICK.

8: He's been in situations where he definitely should've gotten busted many times before. Getting a bunch of toys to walk around and play act in Sid's back garden? You're telling me no one in the whole area saw that, even after he screamed? You're telling me no one saw them driving through the MIDDLE of a suburban neighbourhood?? You're telling me nobody was weirded out by a bunch of traffic cones wandering about in the street, or Barbies having a pool party in the middle of a store in daylight hours, or the toys running around in said store and loudly talking to eachother? You're telling me Andy's mom couldn't hear him shouting at the top of his lungs in her car? And you're telling me that little girl was convinced and actually scared by Slinky saying the word "bark" over and over again in the airport? TOY STORY FRANCHISE RUINED.

Or maybe these movies just do this shit all the time. NITPICK.

9: Opinion. And an uncommon one at that.

10: HUZZAH, ACTUAL CRITICISM! I don't think he's stupid, they just push his lack of knowledge about common Earth things a little farther than they should've. The "inner voice" thing is supposed to be along the same lines as the "tasty hot shmoes" line, and sort of in the same comedic vein as his Spanish mode. He's just as capable and otherwise smart in the movie. But I agree, this gag kinda went too far the wrong way in my opinion. Doesn't ruin the movie for me by any means, but it does bring it down a little.

11: Don't care, Toy Story 3 did a lot of this as well. People who grew up with it don't realise as much, but genuinely it's all throughout that movie.

12: Elaborate please, I genuinely have no clue what you're talking about.

13: Also have no clue what you're talking about. If you didn't rely on a youtuber to make your points and instead made them yourself, we wouldn't be having this problem.

14: ...do you mean the fact that she stayed in the van most of the movie? I agree the underutilisation of the main cast that the other 3 made such good usage of is an issue, but it's not like their characters are different at all. They're just sorta hanging out when usually they, especially Jessie, would help Buzz in finding Woody. I'm disappointed that she didn't have more involvement in the plot, but they didn't "do" anything to her.

15: Because they're supposed to be leaving literally a couple hours later that day. Ideally they wouldn't care and would go find Woody anyway, but it's not exactly out of character for them to not want to just up and disappear, leaving Bonnie behind. There's a very slim chance that they'd make it back in time, and they know it. How to fix this? Write it so that the parents actually want to stay there overnight, then you can have it be reasonable that the toys would want to leave to find Woody, but still have a ticking clock in that Bonnie will be back to the van eventually, to go to sleep, or something like that.

16: He's an idiot who was born yesterday, give the guy a break.

17: Her actions are somewhat reprehensible, yes, but she has decent reasons for it. They don't act like she's redeemed by the end of the movie, they just forgive her and let her go be happy, which is what Woody and the rest 100% would do. Did you forget how they were completely willing to forgive Lotso and give him a second chance after EVERYTHING he did to them and the daycare, and only after he betrayed them a second time, did they decide to just... let him be? Gabby Gabby's not even a quarter as bad as Lotso, nor as mentally unstable or malicious. Does it really stretch your belief that much that Woody would help her out?

18: "That moment where they gAsLiGhT the audience with some light camera trickery to make a gag work" seriously? You think that ISN'T nitpicking? Please stop using the abuse term "gaslighting" to describe things like continuity errors, I genuinely find it somewhat disgusting.

19: Bullshit. Just straight up. What, she can be a bit of a prick sometimes? In like two scenes with Woody? That's "despicable" to you????

20: No he wasn't? He was sad as hell talking about her having left and he doesn't exactly get a new love interest or anything. Him being "over her" wasn't even remotely established and from what I can tell is the opposite of the truth. But even so, being over an old friend/love being gone from a character's life doesn't mean there's no worth in bringing them back, especially if they left OFF SCREEN.

21: Opinion, and a pretty unpopular one at that (i mean seriously, who doesn't love Key and Peele?)

22: some bold ass claims with no backing, considering it it tackles many of the afforementioned themes, and tackles them with flying colours. Coming to an answer you don't like isn't the same as not tackling the question at all. Not sure where you got the suicide one though, OR the rest of those things that it apparently endorses...

23: Opinion, and a pretty weird one at that. It's pretty normally paced and fun. You can have a story not be completely action packed, yk.

24: I'd call it a nitpick but it is a pretty important part of the plot that the van gets back. But idk, I just find it a funny scene. So we'll say... not really a nitpick, but sorta doesn't matter anyway.

25: Oh god... For one, she didn't treat him like dirt the whole movie, they had fun tigether and she was occasionally mad at him and a bit of a sarcastic prick sometimes. He seems to like that though.

Two, they have a much stronger emotional connection than that. Don't reduce her to just "a girl who treated him like dirt for a movie" when she has a much larger role to play in his heart than just this movie, and it's not even true that she treated him that way.

And three, for the LOVE OF GOD can people ever stop saying that challenging the thematic framing of a franchise and coming to a different conclusion through different circumstances is throwing the message in the trash???? People said this about HTTYD as well. Themes aren't morals. The theme can be a question seeking to be answered, an idea that a story seeks to explore, and any number of things. They aren't inherently just "moral of the story, thing good thing bad". SOME are, but Toy Story was never that.

Woody had to think about whether or not he would enjoy life more in the museum than with Andy and he eventually concluded that it wouldn't be because he believes that you should never turn your back on a kid, same thing with Toy Story 3 but with the daycare. Also in Toy Story 3 though... did you notice how Woody left Andy when he realised he didn't need him anymore? You know, the same fucking thing that happens in this movie? The story was never "the only thing a toy is good for is being played with by a kid", it was about the lengths of loyalty, in the first two sticking with it, and the second two, at what point you have to move on. In Toy Story 3, Woody moved on to another kid. In Toy Story 4, he moved on to a life he could love, one that's new and different, but with somebody he cares about and the freedom to be happy. If you attach it to the parenting allegory of the first three, you could see it as a grandparent who desperately wants to relive the feelings they had with their own kids, but realising they have to let go, let the younger ones handle it, and find something else to live your life for. I genuinely think it's beautiful.

26: So to say it butchered the franchise is pretty much indefensible to me. There are legitimate problems with it, there are opinions you can hold, and yes if you like, you can let a bunch of tiny nitpicks destroy your enjoyment of it. But nothing is objective. And don't moralise it - you were not "gaslit" just because Bo Peep became three dimensional.

you bulletpointed that hours long video that was mostly nitpicks, thus many of your points are nitpicks. Please condense this down to the actual story and character critiques, and less about... driveway continuity. Please.

1. Yes this is true, they created a driveway that didn’t exist in the previous movies. I would say this is a valid criticism, but not a major one.

2. It’s only contrived and stupid if the Toy Story universe had always been grounded and realistic, which it has not. The world of Toy Story has always been heightened and exaggerated. Buzz is able to “fall with style” with no real explanation despite being explicitly stated to be a non-flying toy. The claw machine at Pizza Planet is able to death grip Buzz’s smooth round helmet and not let go even when being directly pulled against by Woody. Bullseye is able to run as fast as an airplane at takeoff. Mr Potato Head is able to walk and move with a tortilla body in ways that aren’t realistic. The entire Sunnyside escape sequence is full of contrivances and inconsistencies that could be nitpicked to death. Woody, Bullseye and the LGM teleport under a bucket without Big Baby noticing. Etc, etc, etc. You can of course dislike any of these moments for your own personal reasons, but they are not flaws. These were all intentional choices made by the filmmakers. These choices are meant to reflect the cartoonesque nature of the universe. Obviously it’s not full blown Looney Tunes level, but it’s clearly exaggerated to a degree. Operation Pull Toy is very much in line with the reality/logic of these other moments.

3. They’re not gaslighting anyone. The original two movies still exist and are widely available to buy, rent or stream. They didn’t change how she acts in those movies. Anyone can easily go back and see it. The reason she is somewhat different in the opening scene of Toy Story 4 is because that scene is set a few years after the end of Toy Story 2. During the first two movies, Molly was a baby and too young to play with her toys on her own. Especially a doll made of porcelain. As Molly grew older she would’ve been able to play with Bo on her own, presumably in more dominant/proactive roles than the typical “damsel in distress” we always saw her as when Andy would play with her. I assume this would’ve given her a bit more confidence especially amongst the toys in Molly’s room. Bo was Molly’s first toy too, so it would make sense that she would naturally become the leader of Molly’s room similar to how Woody is with Andy’s room. In fact, this is explicitly stated by Cooley and Neilson in the TS4 Director’s Commentary, but of course you wouldn’t know that if you only watched GM13’s video because he’s dishonest. So her change actually does make sense if you actually put in some thought. As for her dress, there used to be some sort of wireframe underneath it that gave it its rigid form, but it was removed off screen at some point before the flashback. Molly probably took it out so she could handle and move Bo more freely.

4. Dolly isn’t awful. She just has a different opinion/perspective than Woody. She says that a toy going with Bonnie to kindergarten could get her in trouble and make the situation worse. It’s a completely valid counterpoint and concern, because it is exactly what Bonnie’s dad told Bonnie. Dolly is preoccupied trying to wrangle all of the other toys back into position before Bonnie returns to the room so she isn’t fully paying attention to what Woody is saying. After Bonnie and her parents leave for orientation, Dolly goes back to the closet to ask Woody what he was saying. She was willing to hear him out and continue their discussion, but of course GamingMagic doesn’t show that part.

5. sigh. It’s been more than just 3 days. Idk if you’re aware (clearly GM13 is not) but there’s this thing in movies called subtext. Not every single thing ever said is meant to be taken at 100% face value. When the Old Timer clock says “that’s the third time this week” it is clearly meant to infer that this has become a common reoccurring habit for a many weeks. He wouldn’t need to specify “this week” if it had only been three times total. Woody even responds with “it’s been a while” and nobody corrects him. Not to mention that we are outright shown Woody being left out of several playtimes during the opening montage. The Toy Story shorts and tv specials don’t prove or disprove anything either. Out of all 5 short and specials (Hawaiian Vacation, Small Fry, Partysaurus Rex, Terror, and That Time Forgot) we only see Bonnie playing with Woody in ONE of those. That being TS That Time Forgot. That special takes places at Christmas and given that TS4 is set a week before school starts we can assume it’s August or September, which means it’s 8 or 9 months after that short. Comparing Woody’s situation in TS4 to the situation at the start of TS3 just shows a clear lack of understanding of both of these circumstances. Woody and the rest of the toys spent years in Andy’s chest without being played with because they had a deep personal bond with Andy for years prior to that point. Woody doesn’t have anyone or anything outside of Andy and the gang. He is also their leader and is trying to remain strong for their sake. Woody is clinging onto the hope/belief that Andy has kept all of them for a reason. He doesn’t want to believe or accept that Andy doesn’t need them anymore. Throughout the movie Woody has to come to terms with his life with Andy. Yet even despite learning that Andy does still indeed care about him and plans to take him to college, he still decides to let go of Andy and move on. The toys weren’t happy with their situation either in TS3 either. The very first thing we see them doing is trying to lure Andy to play with them by calling his cell phone. The entire plot of TS3 is about all of the toys trying to figure out what their future will be and what they should do/how they should handle it. Woody feels lost and purposeless in TS4 because he doesn’t have the same immensely deep bond and history with Bonnie that he had with Andy. It’s not about him not being played with. It’s about him feeling like Bonnie doesn’t love or need him. Woody is the only toy left behind in the closet in the beginning of the movie. He is left behind in the there with Bonnie’s baby/preschool toys. Ya know, the toys that Bonnie has outgrown and has no use or care for anymore. It’s pretty blatant symbolism. (But who has time to pay attention to the actual filmmaking and storytelling when you are too busy screaming about minor logistical inconsistencies, right?). We also saw this occur multiple times during the opening montage. Woody went missing for an ENTIRE DAY and Bonnie never once cared or even seemed to notice. Once she did eventually find him, she didn’t even acknowledge him. Despite all of this Woody remains dedicated to Bonnie exactly the same way he was to Andy in TS3. He wasn’t looking for a way to leave Bonnie. He has ample opportunities to jump ship on her but remained completely dedicated to her. It takes all of the events of the movie occurring for Woody to reevaluate and grow to come to the difficult decision to leave at the end. And even then it’s only after he gets the blessing from Buzz and the others.

(Part 1 / 4)

It is.

Despicable Me 4