Everything Comic Book Media News everywhere all at once! Movies, Television, Streaming, Animation, Gaming, etc.
CELEBRITY TALK
Sort by:
Best
Open comment sort options
Best
Top
New
Controversial
Old
Q&A
Ultimately, it becomes a discussion on personal preferences.
Nobody "HAS" to like superhero films...but to disregard them as "lesser than" isn't the solution either.
Like what you like, and be kind to one another. It isn't that hard.
Yes truly. On the other side, I’m totally down for super hero or multiverse movies. Just stop giving me a corporate product.
Yeah, like, I think those big pop culture crossover movies could work if they treated it like Roger Rabbit or Spider-Verse instead of being like “look at all the stuff we own”
That’s exactly what Disney did with their Roger Rabbit follow up, Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers. It starts looking like it’s gonna be look at all this shit we own, then stuff they don’t own starts showing up, like Sonic, or Seth Rogan’s characters from other studios
Yeah, that movie definitely has a lot of issues but it is a step in the right direction.
It's all corporate product.
Batman and Robin, The Dark Knight and The Justice League are all products of the WB machine.
Sony is responsible for Spiderman: Into the Spider-verse and Madame Web.
I'm perfectly fine with corporations writing big checks to produce amazing films otherwise we're gonna get Superman made with a Kick-Ass budget.
It's the creatives churning out garbage who deserve the criticism.
Why has the DCU gone to shit? Look who's writing and directing that stuff.
Exactly. There's a huge difference in calling something "not to my liking" or "not something I am interested in" vs "absolute trash" or "not cinema".
This is like when your art professor tells you that you shouldn't draw anime because it's bad for your portfolio... somehow not realizing that they themselves are the ones seeing it as a lesser art form
I hate how "capeshit" has become a word that loads of people on Reddit use now. It's disgusting snobbery.
What’s capeshit? Literally never heard that
First time seeing it too, but I do try to avoid hyper-negative threads
Many superheroes have capes.
Many superheroes have shits.
It's a derisive term for superhero movies.
And there are good and bad superhero films, just like any genre. Saying “I don’t like superhero movies” is akin to saying “I don’t like comedies”.
Lots of people say “I don’t like rom-coms.” But you also don’t have “real cinema” directors saying “Rom-coms aren’t real cinema.”
Meh, I feel like "chick flick" used to be the equivalent of "capeshit"
It's like people who say animated movies or kids movies and it's ok if they are bad or they aren't good cause they are kids movies. For the most part, I can name a hell of a lot of animated movies and animated kids movies that have very clever writing or are just great movies in general. Hell some of them have much more to offer than live action.
You can certainly prefer to not like animated movies, but to dismiss them is exactly the same thing is just dumb.
Frankly when it comes plot holes there's hardly any subjectivity.
When it comes to plot holes, there's hardly any concern, either.
Agreed. That it's bled into other mediums is also a HUGE problem.
But call them basic entertainment for the masses. That is what they are.
Do you know how much of a snob you have to be to say something like that? "Basic" and "for the masses" just give off having a huge superiority complex.
Genre stuff in general gets this treatment and most of it deserves it. There is a common sentiment that an entry a popular genre is less worthy than other media. I think genre fiction can lean on its built-in audience and sometimes get a pass from that audience for poorer execution, but that doesn’t mean it is inherently bad. I’d say don’t judge what you haven’t seen.
I consume those movies far more than I do artsy or social commentary movies. You cant equivocate. Escapism into fantasy/sci-fi is nice, its not quite the same as the more ~serious movies (that I rarely watch), as far as the art of moviemaking is concerned.
r/iamverysmart
Just call them entertainment then. There is no need for all the condescending bits latched on to it.
If you can't see that some of them were legitimately good films, that's on you and your shortcomings.
I have no idea what you mean by "legitimately good", and I am not sure why you would presume I dont think they were. I guess thats a shortcoming in communication on your part huh
Sorry English is so confusing for you.
Yeah MCU in particular is tough because there’s nothing else like it on a cinematic level. It’s so episodic that it’s almost akin to a tv series. It’s been carefully constructed to be inoffensive and safe that it reminds me of those lowest common denominator sitcoms like Big Bang Theory or Two & A Half Men. Super popular shows but imo they’re not very clever or doing anything in an interesting or new way. But they’re mostly predictable and I think that’s comforting for a lot of people which is why it’s popular.
Idk if it’ll do much but take my upvote!
I'm gonna get down voted and called a gatekeeper and I don't ghve a fuck, but I just disagree, and i do enjoy super hero movies, but they are not on the same level as a lot of other stuff. They're schlok and the problem arises when people look down on them for being schlock instead of trying to appreciate them for what they are, but imo they ARE a lesser art form than some other stuff, they seriously lack depth which is odd because a lot of comics have depth. Personally I want a bit of both here and there. Shane Carruth is supposedly a piece of shit, but the guy is smart and I think he sums it up well here though he takes an extreme view, but the point at the end i agree with:
"I am not in the same business as Hollywood. This is not arts and literature in early Greece. This town is what everybody says it is. We hire models to say words they don’t even understand and then light them well. Only one percent of that is worth watching. The confusion is, we get to go to the same building to watch a fucking “Garfield” cartoon and “Phantom Thread,” as if those two are the same things. When I go to a vending machine, there’s a Snickers bar and a bag of Chex Mix. These are the same things. OK, one is savory and one is sugary. But they’re still food I can put in my mouth. We go to the theater and act like they’re all the same thing, and they’re just not. One is meant to be there so you can make out with your date on a Friday night, and the other is there so you can be edified for the next 30 years. We just pretend they’re the same."
All that said, yeah, what I feel about movies shouldn't really effect what anyone else thinks about movies and vice versa. Forming your opinions based on other people's opinions is stupid. If you think Marvel movies are the pinnacle of human creation, cool that's awesome you can appreciate something that much because st the end of the day that's what it comes down to. Get into whatever you can really appreciate because that's what will make you happy. You do you.
If someone has to reference ancient Greece/Rome to defend their views on art I'm gonna start looking for swastikas in their closet
Never speak to a historian so. You'll think they are all right wing nuts for some tinfoil hat reason 🤦♂️🤣
Honestly agree 110% with this. You do you but accept the thing is what it is and I wish MCU fanboys would drop their pretentious crap enough to think the glorified toy advert stretched out to 2 hours they love like an annual COD entry has parity with "Full Metal Jacket" or even "Toy Story" and "Back to the Future", works that go to actual lengths to do something original or characterise their characters in a way that has some psychological realism and relatability beyond "me no like Bad Guy".
The only Marvel anything that had good characterisation and storytelling with some thought put into it was Rami's Spiderman trilogy and James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy.
Not going to get into the argument core here, but I wanna point something out. You have several comments that all devolve into insulting others, insulting their preferences, or insulting their intelligence if they dare to disagree with you.
Solid arguments don't need insults, they stand on their own. I don't feel any need to weigh into this argument. I just wanted to point out, from an outside perspective, I immediately presume you're wrong because real arguments don't need to rely on insults. If you want people to take you seriously, calm down and learn to put your points forward without talking down to others. It's a sign of weakness.
Agreed. Well said.
But that’s the same as everything else. 90% of everything is crap. 90% of war movies are shit, that doesn’t mean we say “ah, Full Metal Jacket is a war film, it must suck”. 90% of children’s animation is garbage extruded product, that doesn’t make Beauty and the Beast or Toy Story bad. Most anime is fucking terrible, Spirited Away is still great art. Saying “most Marvel films are crap” is a different statement than “superhero films are inherently less than other films”.
Marvel has a monopoly on the superhero genre unfortunately so I see them as interchangeable terms now. To clarify if I could return to Superhero genre as it was pre-2009, I would in a heartbeat as a formula wasn't locked in back then so directors had more freedom to be creative with the product. I don't think superhero genre was inherently subpar but I do think it is now due to Marvel oversaturating it with their money milking conveyer belt of corporate product.
I can count on 1 hand the number of great superhero movies. I can count into the dozens, the amount of great war films so to say "90% of war movies are crap" same as, simply isn't true. We never had 20 mass produced war movies a year, every year for a decade straight only made by Michael Bay like Marvel has with Feige.
To take it a step further cinema is for everyone. I've never seen any director take shot at any other genre of film in the history of film. Superhero films are just like any genre. Make a good one and people will generally go watch it, make a bad one and people won't. Marvel made some good ones, people enjoyed them. So I don't understand the hate.
I feel like these veteran directors are moreso criticising the direction many studios are trying to take the business, and the superhero genre has been the poster boy of that direction for the past decade. Marvel movies are not made the same way as other movies. Yes, you have producers, studio heads, all kinds of upper management for every film - but Marvel does not make director-led movies. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is wildly different that what came before. The MCU functions much closer to a television series (despite struggling with making good TV, ironically). Feige is the showrunner - and now Feige has multiple unit showrunners under him as the brand has grown.
And that's what the MCU is. It's a brand - it's more than the sum of its parts. It's turned other studios to find their own version. Which has and still is taking movie-making in a mucn different direction. And I can see why many directors see this direction as sacriligious to the art form. Why it's heading to a place where they cannot see themselves fitting in.
I don't think we will ever lose director-led filmmaking. But I can see how it will become less visible, less desirable for studios. And I can also see how adding more boardrooms and marketing analysts and social media scientists onto a film set will dillute the artistry & meaning & power that film can have.
So yeah, maybe it feels like they are all picking on Marvel (poor multi-billion dollar conglomerate), but it's just because Marvel was the catalyst for this new direction.
Scorsese has made it abundantly clear that the reason he dislikes the MCU isn’t because they’re big, over the top blockbusters, it’s because it’s the perfect encapsulation of basically everything he hates about the studio system, excessive corporate interference that gives the actual filmmakers little to no creative voice.
Thats not what my reddit headlines and out of context quotes have told me! /s
Wasnt the whole point of Feige to reduce the corporate interference and Love and Thunder's biggest problem was too much control given to Taika Waititi?
Meanwhile, half of the MCU movies are planned out before a writer even comes on to the project
Yes, but that's Hollywood and filmmaking is a business so it's not a particular fault of MCU and Marvel for making films that people like to watch. I mean, Scorsese still makes his gangster dramas, Villeneuve still makes Dune and Marvel makes studio driven comic book films. What is there to hate exactly? And how is it different now to when Richard Donner's Superman came out 40 years ago? Which was a comic book movie and the number one film of that year.
The larger the film, the more financiers needed and the more stakeholders have a say. It's the same with literally any business following this model. Don't want to face those issues than finance the film yourself or make smaller films. But there's little reason to hate on studios that do big films and are successful because of it. If it was that easy to do then DCEU and The Dark Universe would be earning billions too.
They aren’t movies, they are really well done toy commercials.
Star Wars really kicked it off, this is just the upgrade.
Star Wars didn't though. Maybe in terms of merchandising, but it didn't change the way studios make or manage their slates. Star Wars was literally a creative-led franchise by George Lucas for 30+ years. Star Wara was the opposite of the Marvel/franchise machine we're seeing today - at least, until Lucas sold it to Disney. Then Disney put Star Wars into the same boardroom of ideas that Marvel was in.
There are differences, but it certainly wasn’t the opposite any more than a child is the opposite of an adult.
But again Marvel made good movies and people came to watch them. If Marvel had made terrible movies and the Infinite Saga imploded before it finished, I don't think the directors or anyone would have cared. So why criticise Marvel for making good films that people enjoy?
The industry following the trend is naturally going to happen because filmmaking is a business. And as much as we want to romanticise the whole thing, Scorsese, Villenueve etc don't and can't make movies just for the art of it. They need their films to make money too and so do the studios. They just do it on a much smaller scale than a Marvel film.
Because, again, they are not criticising Marvel only. They are criticising the "trend," as you put it, and using Marvel as their example of it.
I said in my original comment that I didn't think this "trend" was inherently a bad thing. Good movies have come out of it. But I also understand why many directors criticisize and are weary of corporate-led films. Yes, movies need to make money for the industry to survive. But now, individual artists are becoming less of the reason why. It's non-living studio conglomerates that make Marvelesque movies.
When an enterprkse begins to take over the spotlight from actual people - it is rarely a net positive thing.
This "trend" is not a trend. It's not the same as CGI taking precedent or everything being in 3D. It is quite literally a different process of making movies - not technically, but philosophically
Brands sell, you can’t really fault the studios for that. I always like to refer people to the Gollum video game and the internet‘s reaction to it. It wasn’t really hyped up, and the studio that made it is chiefly known for its mediocre point-and-click adventures, so no expectations set here either, yet there was a huge outrage when the game turned out to be shit. People apparently had expected it to be good solely because it was attached to a big IP.
I think people dismiss comedies the same way they do super hero movies now... you'd never see a comedy at the Oscar's etc
Comedy, Horror, and Romantic Comedy are all generally maligned by "film snobs" as well.
Comedies barely exist anymore
Very true. Same with like good horror movies get shit on like they're not real films. Every now and then one breaks through though. I think the 2000s comedy wave died for the mcu to kinda take it's place.
Directors ripped spaghetti westerns like they were on the set of mean girls back in the day
He makes a damn good point and as an indie filmmaker myself I don’t get it when they do that. They know how hard it is to make a film happen at all, let alone be good. It’s massively difficult. And I’m not saying any of us are owed praise or owed positive receptions because people have the right to like what they like, but at the same time it’s the flippant scoffing bullshit that pisses me off. Like someone had the nerve to say there had never been an MCU movie made by a legit filmmaker. Are you kidding me? Jon Favreau isn’t a legit filmmaker? Kenneth Branagh isn’t a legit filmmaker? Chloe Zhao is not a legit filmmaker? Sam Raimi? Ryan Coogler? Nia DaCosta? Shane Black? Just to name a few. Get the hell out of here. And yes even Taika Waititi, who the internet now despises because he made a Thor they didn’t like after making one they did. Even he is an award winning filmmaker, whose batting average is still way in the green.
They're pissed that they can't make the same money. They're too caught up in the idea of the auteur. They're kind of like the horse drawn coach drivers upset with the trolly companies. Technology now has the ability to create all kinds of stories that were never really possible in a convincing way. That's what makes people want to pay money to see them in theaters. Especially in a post pandemic world. Who wants to rush to see a drama in theaters when the venue adds nothing but cost to the experience and you can see it from the comfort of your own home with better sound and video quality in a couple months anyway?
This exactly. They’re jealous and pissed that the movies they want to make can’t get the funding or audience that a superhero movie can so they downplay the artistry of the films compared to what they make when the reality is that it probably takes more talent and effort to make a good superhero movie good. Seriously, the MCU actually managed to make some really good films in a genre that can easily be campy, cheesy, macho action snooze fests.
This is the kind of delusion that makes these discussions pointless and gives comic book movie fans a bad wrap.
Am I wrong in assuming most people that watch MCU films are children?
Yes.
2008 Hulk is more entertaining than any movie you’ve watched
What?
I didn't believe you so I did some googling, it seems the largest demo is millennial, poor, uneducated, whites.
I'm sorry that that you believe that. Some things are not as they seem.
The dirty secret about movies is that they are mostly watched by people in high school.
W
Based.
He’s not wrong. He right.
No, he's Chris Hemsworth.
War does not determine who is right, only who is Chris Hemsworth
I agree. I think directors don't like how these movies make billions while their movies don't get the audience that they deserve. It's not superhero movies fault, it's the audiences fault.
I don’t think it’s the audience fault either. I don’t think the studio tries to properly market these movies I think if they try better they’ll have way better results.
Edit: there’s been plenty of movies I’ve seen after they’re out of theaters that I’ve really enjoyed, but I didn’t see trailers for it or any other type of marketing for it.
I think it's more a result of technology. Streaming and high quality TVs have made the st home experience great, often preferable to a very expensive night out at the movies.
The thing that'll get me to a theater is the spectacle. There're always gonna be exceptions like Oppenheimer, but for the most part, directors making awards type flicks offer something that's often preferable to watch at home.
My shits gotten too high quality, i can see when props and shit are 3d printed and audio is good enough you can tell when something is ADR...
HD has left Star Trek: The Next Generation in shambles, all it’s got now are the scripts and acting to carry it.
And even then Oppenheimer had the spectacle of the bomb. I am told it was exhilarating on the big screen.
I’ve found myself in the opposite mindset. My best theatre experiences have been the mid-tier blockbusters and lower. The theatre brings more out of those movies. Whereas I get about the same fun out of a marvel movie sitting at home that I would in a theatre.