A place for discussion of Israeli life and culture, but most of all for participating in the time honored tradition of arguing politics.
Photo/Video ๐ธ
An Israeli tries to raise the Israeli flag on the Temple Mount but the police orders him to take it down because there are many Muslims in the area. Is this what apartheid looks like?
Is this apartheid?
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I was kinda waiting for him to point at the officerโs shoulder patch. ๐
Well that's just false Israeli propaganda /s
You guys aren't doing a great job controlling the world if this happens lmao
I've tried giving my inputs to my local representative but he was too busy drinking the blood of Palestinian children (obviously /s, F-ing Christ)
Ye i tried the same thing they were too busy harvesting palestinian organs (obligatory /s)
Itโs Hard to harvest organs if the bodies arenโt intact
Great way to perpetuate lies from jihadist extremist to justify their violence
No itโs because they know your a fool
Ok prove it
/s lol, its satire.
Did Jerusalem get sold off or something?
I can raise an Israeli flag in literally any other Israeli city with not problem, what's going on there?
On the temple mount it's an Arab area which is always very tense so they are very strict its not the city of jerusalem I'm pretty sure Israelis need permission to go there with a group and security or something like that
Alright that makes so much more sense...
Thanks mate
Exactly. It's the temple mount. It's supposed to be neutral.
Those cops are just doing their jobs.
Well the ideal situation is that the Israelis should be in charge it's not supposed to be neutral but being that now it's neutral it's makes sense what the police r doing
Itโs not neutral though. Arabs muslims have free access to the Temple Mount yet Jews who consider it their most holy site are very limited in their access.
Itโs not neutral. Itโs under control of the Jordanian waqf, and Israel enforced their policies.
When I went with a tour group, we couldnโt even bring source sheets to discuss historical or literary (non-religious) texts, and our guide said several years ago, they tried just using their phones, but the Israeli authorities there caught on and stopped them.
Thereโs also a limited time of day that non-Arab non-muslims can go.
You're not getting any real answers apparently.
After war with Jordan in '67, Moshe Dayan signed a peace treaty giving control of the Temple Mount itself to the Muslim Waqf under Jordanian authority. A quota of Jews are allowed on the Temple Mount during certain religious holidays. All other times, closed to Israelis except by special permission. Non-Israelis can visit. No one except Muslims can enter the Dome of The Rock, though.
So this was bugging me because I have a very clear memory of touring the inside of the dome of the rock & the al-aqsa mosque in 1994 & one of my favorite photos that Iโve taken is of a Muslim man washing his feet before praying at al-aqsa.
So did some googling & according to Wikipedia - non-Muslims used to be able to enter both buildings.
Until 2000, non-Muslim visitors could enter the Dome of the Rock, al-Aqsa Mosque and the Islamic Museum by getting a ticket from the Waqf. This procedure ended when the Second Intifada erupted.
Yup. Thank you Ariel Sharon and the intifada.
I never much liked Sharon but after Rabin was assassinated, I felt that a hawk had a better chance of selling a peace deal so I had some high hopes.
& As much as I think it is bullshit that we allow Muslims to control our holiest site (which wouldnโt even be holy to them if it hadnโt been holy to us first), I feel like his visit was a ridiculous move & his doing so gained us nothing.
Maybe we should rethink letting people control parts of our country...
Israel feels smaller every year
It triggers Arab people
The real challenge is try not to trigger Palestinians
They lose their minds on a goddamn song contest do you really expect anything else from them?
P.S. diffrentiate "Arabs" from "Palestinians", Israeli arabs are chill and make fantastic hummus.
I don't think people from Gaza are allowed there.
The West Bank were never officially designated as Palestinian territories until the 1993 Oslo Accords. Prior to that, the land was under Jordanian(west bank) and Egyptian control(gaza) So i can't really call them "Palestinians" but i see your point.
And yeah hummus is da best
To elaborate, and I'm sure you're aware of this, but for anyone else who is unclear --- let's be honest - the "Palestinians" never accepted Egyptian, Jordanian, or even Palestinian citizenship. Those are descendents of the Ottoman Empire who lost the war in 1922. Britain divvied up the Middle East, and when the portion of "Palestine" was offered to the Arabs in 1948 on that land, it was rejected, because the "Palestinians" wanted the entire thing (the offered land and the half offered to Israel). That's why the West Bank and Gaza belonged to Jordan and Egypt. The Israelis accepted their portion in 1948, and then won Gaza and the West Bank in a defensive war in 1967.
Gazans are allowed on the Temple Mount. They need permits to enter Israel, but theyโre difficult to get and thatโs where the problem lies.
Fair enough :)
If i walk outside, knock on my arab neighbours door, and show him an Israeli flag, he would be completely fine with it...
The Actual El-Aqtsa Intifada Caused by a president (Ariel Sharon) entering the holy for muslims temple mount areas. If we want 2SS we must stop israeli jews get into the holy areas in the temple mount. Most of israelis are good with only West Kotel but some (Itamar Ben Gvir) does not.
Actually I think there is good amount of evidence the entire second intifada had been planned before Sharon even visited, it definitely increased tensions but I believe the second intifada had been planned by Arafat even before that and was always going to occur regardless of the visit or not, it was a pointless provocation but still.
I am pro Israel but that is just trying to stir up trouble.
What kind of a lame apartheid is this?
Worst genocide EVERRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!11 the Arabs of the past would spit on this!!! PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!1!!!!!one!!!1
Genocidal Arabsback then: we have conquered many nations in the name of Allah!
Genocidal Arabs now: No! You cant beat our 5 armies at once! This is colonialism! Please just let us kill you!
Bad apartheid ๐๐
Those are people that scaled an ancient whatever that is to get arrested for the same crime.
To fail and cry
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Precisely. You can raise the Israeli flag mostly anywhere in Jerusalem. But the Temple Mount / Haram al-Sharif is a wild place to put the flag, and not expect people to lose their shit.
My question is if they would do the same with a Palestinian flag? I'd hope so. If you want to keep the temple mount completely neutral from either side then I will support that but not if one side can wave the Palestinian flag but Israelis can't wave an Israeli flag, it is the Jewish holiest site after all.
My understanding is that this is part of a peace treaty Israel has with Jordan. In exchange for peace between the two countries, Muslims would get to control the temple they built on top of an existing Jewish holy site.
In addition to this, Jews are only allowed to use one of the 9 entrances. And only on certain days and certain hours. They cannot bring any kind of Jewish texts, or symbols, etc. Women must be covered, and Jews are only allowed limited access. Muslims on the other hand have no restrictions.
Just imagine if the roles were reversed. There would be condemnation around the world.
Genuine question: What happens if you to sit and read the Quran at the Western Wall.
This is exactly the arab mindset. Just like their countries in the Middle East, they have the entire temple mount almost exclusively to themselves yet they would still complain about oppression if they werenโt allowed to read the quran at the western wall. What happened the strong Arabs of the conquests. All they so today is whine and cry about how they canโt kill Jews without losing wars.
Yup this would instigate with the Muslims around them.
I completely agree but literally just being Jewish up there is an instigation in itself. I'll never forget the 30-odd Muslim crowd hurling rocks at us and shouting "Allahu Akbar" because I happened to be touring up there with a Jewish family. I was only 14 at the time. We had to be escorted away by two armed guards/IDF.
I hope you were not harmed
i was ok thank you!
they were enough of a safe-ish distance away but itโs still surreal experiencing the very real tensions for yourself instead of just reading up about it on the media. it is a shame and i only wish for there to be peace
So the cop's reaction is basically a tacit admission that the nearby Muslims can't trusted to control their violent tendencies.
Bingo. His job is to keep the place peaceful. He'd let the jew inside if it was allowed by law and if he knew he wouldn't be attacked by Muslims.
Going to the most sacred place in Judaism and raising the flag of the Jewish nation is trying to stir up trouble? Really?
Most sacred place and a spot most of the Orthadox jewish world considers halachically forbidden to step foot in.
Yeah so?
We are proud Israelis, and we will raise our flag everywhere in our homeland. We will not apologize, bow our heads, or be afraid of anyone. Those days are over; we are the generation of victory and heroism.
If someone has anger issues because of this, they are welcome to see a psychiatrist. And if that doesn't help, there are always the security forces who will be happy to give them a permanent rest.
Bro. Chill the fuck out. We want to live and let live. Can't expect anyone else to respect boundaries (real and figurative) if we don't show the same respect.
We gave the temple mount in good faith. Let's maintain that good faith to the extent possible. It's too important to risk. Once we can have a reasoned, level-headed discussion to share it, we'll have it. Now is not the time.
I'm sorry, bro. Our approaches are very different. As I understand it, you believe in reconciliation and calming the situation, but in practice, this has encouraged our enemies because they perceive it as weakness.
I believe in demonstrating strength and standing firm against the enemy, knowing that in their value system, they see it as strength, which deters them until the next time.
There is nothing for us to discuss or argue about; we will never agree.
This mentality has worked great so far, right?
Wtf
Are you a Zionist?
I am not sure what that is defined as anymore, but I believe Israel has a right to exist in the boarders it is now in. As there is a Muslim shrine on the site I believe it should be honored. If any natural disaster were to take it down I would be totally ok with Israel rebuilding a temple there.
Zionist is a person who believes Israel has a right to exist. I'm a Zionist
Moshe dayan gave it to Jordan's waqf and this is their rules, also part of the peace treaty
And this?
Palestinians and Arab Israelis have unfettered access to the Temple Mount. Only Jews and Israelis are restricted. Part of our agreement after the '67 War and complications since then.
Good thing I was wearing a baseball cap over my kippah when I went up to the temple mount.
And we didn't get peace, so we should not have to ceed the holiest site in the world to terrorists.
We did get peace with Jordan's leaders
This is true
And it's been useful.
And what have they done for us and their Palestinian population since then?
Whatโs wild to me is that JORDAN controls the site and not Palestinian leadership and yet Israel is still the only โoccupier.โ
What a shame. ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฎ๐ฑ
That's fair, the situation is tense enough as is.
After war with Jordan in '67, Moshe Dayan signed a peace treaty giving control of the Temple Mount itself to the Muslim Waqf under Jordanian authority. A quota of Jews are allowed on the Temple Mount during certain religious holidays. All other times, closed to Israelis except by special permission, unless you are Muslim. Non-Israelis can visit. No one except Muslims can enter the Dome of The Rock, though.
It's not technically under Israeli administrative control, but we provide security forces.
I hope you realize that many Muslims are Israeli citizens
Yes, I do.
I specified Non-Israelis can visit because most non-Israeli Jews hide the fact that they're Jewish so that they can visit without issue.
If you are Israeli, then there is a quota on Israeli Jews.
Edit: Ah, sorry. I see the confusion. I later wrote Muslims have unfettered access to the Dome of the Rock and thought that was enough since, technically speaking, a Muslim Israeli IS entering based on special permission due to their religious status. The default is: no Israeli unless you get special permission, one way to get permission is by being Muslim. I edited my comment to clarify. Thanks for pointing it out.
You know that it is forbidden to raise a flag long before the war and even without connection to the war, right? This is to avoid getting lynched by the Muslims
The situation was already tense long before the war, it was fair back then as well.
So it's been tense every day since 2005 right? Nice logic
Maybe it's tense because they are violent people who can't tolerate others?
He is trying to make a point, and it is a valid one, IMO.
Temple Mount is not the place to do this.