That’s weird, that’s queer, that’s crazy, that deserves a long hard look.
Optimist wrote:That Dr Phil video was very good. A must watch if you haven’t already.
It was a terrible video that displays Dr Phil’s bias.
https://m.
soggydog wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:bonza wrote:Standard stuff from the useful idiots here and elsewhere who hate Israel . Attack condemn and deny everything Israel says at every opportunity in accordance with Hamas social media propaganda. Remain silent when the evidence proves otherwise. Wash rinse repeat.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-ha...
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/gaza-fatality-data-h...
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-kille...
The useful idiots here will be on right side of history mate.
You would have been calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist and encouraging them to nuke Vietnam.Opposing genocide does not make you anti semitic, your failure to understand this simple point says more about you and your heartless mates....
Anyway I'm out... This attitude is sickening to me. Look at the footage coming out of Gaza and you are going on about figures of 1000's of people being butchered with no where they can go, journos and aid convoys being deliberately targeted, and famine already taking hold.
But hey it Hamas's fault.But hey it Hamas's fault….well, it is.
The inability of andy to even acknowledge the lies is no surprise.
Who created Hamas Einstein?
Hint, he now runs Israel.That's your defence?
Next week you will be saying Hamas attack on 7 October didn't happen.Ok I'll bite.
Yes, the Hamas attack happened, but did not happen in a vacuum.
Hamas also had a bit of help financially and politically from Bibi himself ey.
I have said from the start that there needn't to be a response. However, an indiscriminate invasion/ occupation will not have any winners or good outcomes for Israel or the Palestinians for the reasons we are exactly seeing unfold now.
Israel cannot win this war or occupation any more than the USA could in Iraq or Afghanistan, they have now strengthened Hamas support in Palestine, and are becoming an international pariah.
This will only get worse for them as it drags on and more and more imagery of dead or starving kids come out of Gaza.
It will probably bankrupt them as Israel's economy cannot handle continual war, and how long will the USA keep the weapons and funds flowing?
Also, how long can people and families in Israel put up with their reservist forces and regular IDF coming home in body bags?
They have created a generation now who will be looking for revenge for this carnage, great recruitment drive for Hamas and other Islamic extremist forces.
The Palestinians will not be going anywhere making a peaceful outcome or 2 state solution extremely difficult.
What is their solution?
As another commentor claims, Hamas have 80% support from regular Palestinians which I have no idea if true or not.
They cannot destroy Hamas as stated as their end goal.
If that being the case Israels only end game can be to move them off the land or kill them all, and that is genocide.
Is that what you are suggesting?
If not, what do you see as a viable solution?I don't know the solution tbh. But I do think Israel should cease military operations and negotiate to get the hostages released.
andy, do you think Palestinians have the ability to know right from wrong? are they able to know murdering someone for religious reasons is wrong? do they comprehend that the extermination of all jews is not a valid outcome for their future? Because it seems to me that you are blaming Israel for all future outcomes and the poor Palestinians get a free pass to carry on their Jihad of death and destruction.
Yo, andy. Are you taking the cowards route again? Remain silent?
How about you answer this?Try answering this, andy.
Give it a shot why don’t you?
Ok I will endeavour to put it in a very simplistic holistic view for you.
I believe all humans can be good or bad, and does not depend on their race, religion, political views, sexuality, gender or any other variable.
I also believe that good people are capable of doing 'bad' things and bad people are capable of doing 'good' things under certain circumstances, I came to understand this after reading books, not youtube videos.
I suggest you read some of Chris Hedges experiences in the Balkan wars in some of his books as he was there are what he wrote about the human condition in extreme circumstances.https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60836825-the-greatest-evil-is-war
didn't answer the question..because that would be too hard for you to extend yourself.
about as irrelevant and generic an answer as could be given.
I will ask you again so you can ignore it
andy, do you think Palestinians have the ability to know right from wrong? are they able to know murdering someone for religious reasons is wrong? do they comprehend that the extermination of all jews is not a valid outcome for their future?
take note where I asked about Palestinians?
Read my response, Palestinians are humans.
Your question is answered.
Now run along and enjoy your weekend.no you didn't answer. you brought it down to be about individual humans having the ability/capability to do bad things.
I asked about Palestinians as a group, as an ethnonational group.
C’mon RK. It’s a stupid “gotcha” question that serves no purpose and accusing someone of cowardice for not playing a stupid game is schoolyard stupidity.
Yep...
Have a good weekend Soggy...
Optimist wrote:Crikey Indo the Jews have a record of Abraham’s whole family tree so he was real.
They were very serious and educated record keepers.
Copies of those same records were also found in your Dead Sea caves you were stoked on.
He left Ur on his own to travel and when in Canaan God said he would inherit this land one day and that day came and became the land of Israel which was all of todays Palestine. The so called Palestinians who really are just Gazans could easily work with Israel but are subject to their Islamic religions mission statement which is to wipe out the Jews.
So while Iran is pulling their strings there can never be peace. It’s a real shame because Israel help all their Arab neighbours who are friendly to them.
History shows their ancestors, the sons of Abraham were step brothers.
One becoming the Jewish race and the other the Arab.
They should be on the same page religiously but Mohammad took many Arabs off track to his new modern religion and created the strong division for personal gain.
It wasn't hard for him to find his jihad suicide squad who would rather die than not have the money, power and women that he promised them and so it goes on to this day.
The subject is actually quite interesting but its a pretty common belief among scholars that Abraham was not a real person its even a belief held by some Jews and Christians, i guess progressive ones
Just some examples
"Most scholars view the patriarchal age, along with the Exodus and the period of the biblical judges, as a late literary construct that does not relate to any particular historical era, and after a century of exhaustive archaeological investigation, no evidence has been found for a historical Abraham"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham#:~:text=Most%20scholars%20view%20t....
And example from a Jewish learning website
"Nor can we determine whether any of the biblical stories told about Abraham has a historical basis. The claim that Abraham came to Canaan from Mesopotamia is not historically implausible. Such a journey could have taken place in more than one historical period. As we have seen, however, the insistence that the Israelites were not Canaanites in origin was so persuasive that the belief that the first patriarch came from a foreign land could have arisen as part of an ethnic boundary-marking that characterized the development of the tradition."
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/abraham/
I havent watched this yet other than the furst few minutes, but looks interesting .
You too andy. Offshore for the weekend, yew!
Optimist wrote:That Dr Phil video was very good. A must watch if you haven’t already.
It was a good watch Mosab Yousef always is and knows better than anyone what hamas are about and Dr Phil obviously wasn't the focus.
soggydog wrote:Optimist wrote:That Dr Phil video was very good. A must watch if you haven’t already.
It was a terrible video that displays Dr Phil’s bias.
that’s all you got out of it? What about who he was interviewing?
ashsam wrote:soggydog wrote:Optimist wrote:That Dr Phil video was very good. A must watch if you haven’t already.
It was a terrible video that displays Dr Phil’s bias.
that’s all you got out of it? What about who he was interviewing?
I’ve watched him on Piers Morgan with Abby Martin. Unhinged is how I would describe him.
just when it was funny as, "..bairns looking on, chewing on potato cakes..", haha.
soggydog wrote:ashsam wrote:soggydog wrote:Optimist wrote:That Dr Phil video was very good. A must watch if you haven’t already.
It was a terrible video that displays Dr Phil’s bias.
that’s all you got out of it? What about who he was interviewing?
I’ve watched him on Piers Morgan with Abby Martin. Unhinged is how I would describe him.
why is he unhinged?
To be fair I think anyone would be a bit unhinged if they were the son of a Hamas leader.
But I think he is just passionate and expressive in his delivery, it must be crazy frustrating for him to see how many in the west just get sucked into Hamas lies and propaganda.
Who is behind all these pro Palestinian protests? These things are not spontaneous, especially in the US?
There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
https://m.
bonza wrote:There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
Or perhaps there is just a significant proportion of the population who disagree with you? Loving the “everyone is dumb but me” rhetoric.
^ that exactly mirrors your Albini distillation. thou art wise, @blackers, reckon yr onto it. and dogs.
blackers wrote:bonza wrote:There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
Or perhaps there is just a significant proportion of the population who disagree with you? Loving the “everyone is dumb but me” rhetoric.
That’s not what I said
;)
https://m.
bonza wrote:There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
What bullshit
GuySmiley wrote:bonza wrote:There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
What bullshit
Haha. Here he is champion of the minority. Chief stalker of Indo. Never a post wasted to remind us 15 years later of a throwaway dumb market comment ( no idea what was said) But where was guy smiley yesterday when a disgusting rape comment was made? It wasn’t a mistake it was followed by a DUMB justification.
where was guy? Low hanging fruit was guy. Straight to opti.
You are a pretender guy. .
bonza wrote:blackers wrote:bonza wrote:There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
Or perhaps there is just a significant proportion of the population who disagree with you? Loving the “everyone is dumb but me” rhetoric.
That’s not what I said
It's directly implied by your choice of words. Like it or not these people you call dumb and lacking in critical thinking will be in the next wave of politicians. They will be deciding whether or not to cut your pension. Taken in by flashing lights and cultural transformation or not, they represent part of the future. You and your mate in the pub can continue to rail against the "woke" as much as you like but not everyone thinks like you. Diversity of opinion is what makes us great, belittling those you have different views to is just arrogance. The kind of thing you accuse the left of.
Antisemitism. Support and sympathy of a jihadists death cult. A leaning towards illiberal principles. Those are the ideas we all should call out and challenge.
I’ve gone toe to toe with gsco on the woke thing. I think I know the difference between grumpy old man and stupid shit people say. I have a lot of faith in the youth. I’m not attacking them blackers. I’m challenging the ideas, arguments and principles whether it’s said by young or not. Ironically it’s specifically things middle aged men have said on these threads who should know better.
Hmmm Indo, Britannica or you tube?..Britannica or you tube?…plus Jewish written family tree?…..even I have my family tree all the way back to the first fleet in 1788 up on the wall on my mothers side….
The Jews have a longer one than me…so ….ill stick with the documented written word rather than the other.
^ hahaha, go flopti go ;)
https://m.
;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUPd2FyIGlzbnQgbXVyZGVy Optimist wrote:Hmmm Indo, Britannica or you tube?..Britannica or you tube?…plus Jewish written family tree?…..even I have my family tree all the way back to the first fleet in 1788 up on the wall on my mothers side….
The Jews have a longer one than me…so ….ill stick with the documented written word rather than the other.
It's not Youtube vs Britannia. they are both just platforms
It's scholars of history vs very traditional set religious belief's.
However many people including Christian's & Jews hold religious beliefs and also don't take everything written as literal, the stories in Genesis etc can be interpreted as allegorical meaning they are basic stories created to contain a moral or meaning, like Adam & Eve, or the story of Noah etc.
"The Bible was written to explore the human relationship with God, not primarily as a history book. It is the wisdom, not the historicity, of the Bible which is of prime importance."
Many Christians including Christian or Jewish scientist and astronomers believe god created the earth but also believe its billions of years old and that was created by the big bang.
Its just as believable to answer the question of what was behind the big bang with the answer god than anything else, because at that point you can say well what is god.
But yeah im not here to tell you what to believe or mock or bring down your beliefs and while not religious myself i still respect the history and culture of Judeo- Christinity and for me Israel & Jerusalem are really important to our own culture.
It's kind of similar to how many Aboriginal people today wouldn't necessarily believe the dream time stories as literal but still respect the stories or hold them dear.
Anyway we are really in the wrong thread for this talk.
soggydog wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:bonza wrote:Standard stuff from the useful idiots here and elsewhere who hate Israel . Attack condemn and deny everything Israel says at every opportunity in accordance with Hamas social media propaganda. Remain silent when the evidence proves otherwise. Wash rinse repeat.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-ha...
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/gaza-fatality-data-h...
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-kille...
The useful idiots here will be on right side of history mate.
You would have been calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist and encouraging them to nuke Vietnam.Opposing genocide does not make you anti semitic, your failure to understand this simple point says more about you and your heartless mates....
Anyway I'm out... This attitude is sickening to me. Look at the footage coming out of Gaza and you are going on about figures of 1000's of people being butchered with no where they can go, journos and aid convoys being deliberately targeted, and famine already taking hold.
But hey it Hamas's fault.But hey it Hamas's fault….well, it is.
The inability of andy to even acknowledge the lies is no surprise.
Who created Hamas Einstein?
Hint, he now runs Israel.That's your defence?
Next week you will be saying Hamas attack on 7 October didn't happen.Ok I'll bite.
Yes, the Hamas attack happened, but did not happen in a vacuum.
Hamas also had a bit of help financially and politically from Bibi himself ey.
I have said from the start that there needn't to be a response. However, an indiscriminate invasion/ occupation will not have any winners or good outcomes for Israel or the Palestinians for the reasons we are exactly seeing unfold now.
Israel cannot win this war or occupation any more than the USA could in Iraq or Afghanistan, they have now strengthened Hamas support in Palestine, and are becoming an international pariah.
This will only get worse for them as it drags on and more and more imagery of dead or starving kids come out of Gaza.
It will probably bankrupt them as Israel's economy cannot handle continual war, and how long will the USA keep the weapons and funds flowing?
Also, how long can people and families in Israel put up with their reservist forces and regular IDF coming home in body bags?
They have created a generation now who will be looking for revenge for this carnage, great recruitment drive for Hamas and other Islamic extremist forces.
The Palestinians will not be going anywhere making a peaceful outcome or 2 state solution extremely difficult.
What is their solution?
As another commentor claims, Hamas have 80% support from regular Palestinians which I have no idea if true or not.
They cannot destroy Hamas as stated as their end goal.
If that being the case Israels only end game can be to move them off the land or kill them all, and that is genocide.
Is that what you are suggesting?
If not, what do you see as a viable solution?I don't know the solution tbh. But I do think Israel should cease military operations and negotiate to get the hostages released.
andy, do you think Palestinians have the ability to know right from wrong? are they able to know murdering someone for religious reasons is wrong? do they comprehend that the extermination of all jews is not a valid outcome for their future? Because it seems to me that you are blaming Israel for all future outcomes and the poor Palestinians get a free pass to carry on their Jihad of death and destruction.
Yo, andy. Are you taking the cowards route again? Remain silent?
How about you answer this?Try answering this, andy.
Give it a shot why don’t you?
Ok I will endeavour to put it in a very simplistic holistic view for you.
I believe all humans can be good or bad, and does not depend on their race, religion, political views, sexuality, gender or any other variable.
I also believe that good people are capable of doing 'bad' things and bad people are capable of doing 'good' things under certain circumstances, I came to understand this after reading books, not youtube videos.
I suggest you read some of Chris Hedges experiences in the Balkan wars in some of his books as he was there are what he wrote about the human condition in extreme circumstances.https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60836825-the-greatest-evil-is-war
didn't answer the question..because that would be too hard for you to extend yourself.
about as irrelevant and generic an answer as could be given.
I will ask you again so you can ignore it
andy, do you think Palestinians have the ability to know right from wrong? are they able to know murdering someone for religious reasons is wrong? do they comprehend that the extermination of all jews is not a valid outcome for their future?
take note where I asked about Palestinians?
Read my response, Palestinians are humans.
Your question is answered.
Now run along and enjoy your weekend.no you didn't answer. you brought it down to be about individual humans having the ability/capability to do bad things.
I asked about Palestinians as a group, as an ethnonational group.
C’mon RK. It’s a stupid “gotcha” question that serves no purpose and accusing someone of cowardice for not playing a stupid game is schoolyard stupidity.
It’s not a gotcha question. It goes to the ability for Palestinians to get peace. For you, it’s easier to avoid answering it as it would mean you have to acknowledge that peace isn’t going to happen. Hamas and the majority of Palestinians have zero interest in changing and working towards real peace. Gazans are a fractured and corrupted bunch. The western world is kidding itself if it thinks peace will eventually break out.
bonza wrote:There’s no conspiracy. It’s a combination of dumbness and lack of critical thinking ability taken in by the flashing TikTok lights of Hamas propaganda ; Antisemitism and; a cultural transformation towards illiberal principles. Ironically and tragically driven by the political left.
Its kind of ironic that its mostly a university driven thing when they seem extremely uneducated on history and more brainwashed by TikTok.
And sure there is an organic "i support the current thing" aspect, but there is said to be funding from pro Islamic groups, Iran related groups and other possibly foreign actors then just far left sources (although it shouldn't be a left vs right thing)
There is a number of article around where funding is coming from.
bonza wrote:Antisemitism. Support and sympathy of a jihadists death cult. A leaning towards illiberal principles. Those are the ideas we all should call out and challenge.
I’ve gone toe to toe with gsco on the woke thing. I think I know the difference between grumpy old man and stupid shit people say. I have a lot of faith in the youth. I’m not attacking them blackers. I’m challenging the ideas, arguments and principles whether it’s said by young or not. Ironically it’s specifically things middle aged men have said on these threads who should know better.
100% agree
flollo wrote:Who is behind all these pro Palestinian protests? These things are not spontaneous, especially in the US?
Oh Jeeze…Palestinian protests are directed and orchestrated by some mysterious power?
=
Peak stupidity.
I will leave my comment above and add
Pro Palestine agitators semi organising and encouraging protests is not a conspiracy.
Most protesters have nfi what they are protesting about. Most are young, stupid and naive and just want to be part of something.
Gays for Palestine. And LGBQTs for Gaza are examples of just how incredibly stupid some of the generations are.
Here’s one for you Indo.
What are the ethical, and legal, limits of protests at Australian universities?
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/theminefield/the-ethical-and-lega...
I find the uni comments hilarious, 95% of uni students are rushing back to their $500p/w apartments to study, or going to work, and couldn't give a shit about the sorts of things discussed here.
Roadkill wrote:flollo wrote:Who is behind all these pro Palestinian protests? These things are not spontaneous, especially in the US?
Oh Jeeze…Palestinian protests are directed and orchestrated by some mysterious power?
=
Peak stupidity.
Like these things don’t happen. Not a mysterious power, just a genuine question about potential groups and organisations being part of the protest. And where is their funding coming from.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/15/kyrsten-sinema-super-p...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-chin...
https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/opinion/meet-the-american-millionaire-marx...
flollo wrote:Roadkill wrote:flollo wrote:Who is behind all these pro Palestinian protests? These things are not spontaneous, especially in the US?
Oh Jeeze…Palestinian protests are directed and orchestrated by some mysterious power?
=
Peak stupidity.
Like these things don’t happen. Not a mysterious power, just a genuine question about potential groups and organisations being part of the protest. And where is their funding coming from.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/15/kyrsten-sinema-super-p...
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/05/world/europe/neville-roy-singham-chin...
https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/opinion/meet-the-american-millionaire-marx...
This ^^^ is all known.
“who is behind all the pro Palestine protests?” Is a question that we already know the answer to. It’s no secret.
Lots of people use their money and influence to cause disruption and promote a cause.
I get what you are asking/saying though. And those who are welding influence and funding need to be identified.
@flollo, so just so I'm seeing this correctly, you've got a rich software engineer, not quite a billionaire, about 3/4 of the way there, who sold his business and uses some of his funds to finance groups that align with his political beliefs and interests, that are left wing, and his position on the Gaza situation which is pro Palestine.
And the pertinent reference attacking him for having the audacity to behave in this outrageous and triggering manner, for being a communist, (did pretty well for himself, says he wants to give it all away in his life time, ok, he's a "commie"), this reference you gave that backs up the point I think you are trying to make, (that the campus protest movement is actually funded or a front for dangerous Marxist elites like Singham and his wife), is a character assassination piece in the New York Post owned by a multi billionaire and his nepo baby son who use their vast media empire and wealth to not just fund political groups that align with their financial and political beliefs, which are right wing, some may say even far right, but to undermine democracy itself.
So I'm supposed to be taking some side in this?
@Roadkill says "And those who are welding influence and funding need to be identified."
Yes. Yes they do.
Antisemitism doesn’t increase in a vacuum, it has been very well documented how badly the Israeli military strategy in Gaza is going to the point where moderate Jews and even holocaust survivors are calling it genocide.
It is perfectly understandable why moderate Jews would be worried given their own horrific history but in liberal democracies people have a right to peacefully protest and for the most part that is what is happening.
Calling someone antisemitic is a cheap shot especially when there’s no evidence of it.
Roadkill wrote:soggydog wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:bonza wrote:Standard stuff from the useful idiots here and elsewhere who hate Israel . Attack condemn and deny everything Israel says at every opportunity in accordance with Hamas social media propaganda. Remain silent when the evidence proves otherwise. Wash rinse repeat.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-ha...
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/gaza-fatality-data-h...
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-kille...
The useful idiots here will be on right side of history mate.
You would have been calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist and encouraging them to nuke Vietnam.Opposing genocide does not make you anti semitic, your failure to understand this simple point says more about you and your heartless mates....
Anyway I'm out... This attitude is sickening to me. Look at the footage coming out of Gaza and you are going on about figures of 1000's of people being butchered with no where they can go, journos and aid convoys being deliberately targeted, and famine already taking hold.
But hey it Hamas's fault.But hey it Hamas's fault….well, it is.
The inability of andy to even acknowledge the lies is no surprise.
Who created Hamas Einstein?
Hint, he now runs Israel.That's your defence?
Next week you will be saying Hamas attack on 7 October didn't happen.Ok I'll bite.
Yes, the Hamas attack happened, but did not happen in a vacuum.
Hamas also had a bit of help financially and politically from Bibi himself ey.
I have said from the start that there needn't to be a response. However, an indiscriminate invasion/ occupation will not have any winners or good outcomes for Israel or the Palestinians for the reasons we are exactly seeing unfold now.
Israel cannot win this war or occupation any more than the USA could in Iraq or Afghanistan, they have now strengthened Hamas support in Palestine, and are becoming an international pariah.
This will only get worse for them as it drags on and more and more imagery of dead or starving kids come out of Gaza.
It will probably bankrupt them as Israel's economy cannot handle continual war, and how long will the USA keep the weapons and funds flowing?
Also, how long can people and families in Israel put up with their reservist forces and regular IDF coming home in body bags?
They have created a generation now who will be looking for revenge for this carnage, great recruitment drive for Hamas and other Islamic extremist forces.
The Palestinians will not be going anywhere making a peaceful outcome or 2 state solution extremely difficult.
What is their solution?
As another commentor claims, Hamas have 80% support from regular Palestinians which I have no idea if true or not.
They cannot destroy Hamas as stated as their end goal.
If that being the case Israels only end game can be to move them off the land or kill them all, and that is genocide.
Is that what you are suggesting?
If not, what do you see as a viable solution?I don't know the solution tbh. But I do think Israel should cease military operations and negotiate to get the hostages released.
andy, do you think Palestinians have the ability to know right from wrong? are they able to know murdering someone for religious reasons is wrong? do they comprehend that the extermination of all jews is not a valid outcome for their future? Because it seems to me that you are blaming Israel for all future outcomes and the poor Palestinians get a free pass to carry on their Jihad of death and destruction.
Yo, andy. Are you taking the cowards route again? Remain silent?
How about you answer this?Try answering this, andy.
Give it a shot why don’t you?
Ok I will endeavour to put it in a very simplistic holistic view for you.
I believe all humans can be good or bad, and does not depend on their race, religion, political views, sexuality, gender or any other variable.
I also believe that good people are capable of doing 'bad' things and bad people are capable of doing 'good' things under certain circumstances, I came to understand this after reading books, not youtube videos.
I suggest you read some of Chris Hedges experiences in the Balkan wars in some of his books as he was there are what he wrote about the human condition in extreme circumstances.https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60836825-the-greatest-evil-is-war
didn't answer the question..because that would be too hard for you to extend yourself.
about as irrelevant and generic an answer as could be given.
I will ask you again so you can ignore it
andy, do you think Palestinians have the ability to know right from wrong? are they able to know murdering someone for religious reasons is wrong? do they comprehend that the extermination of all jews is not a valid outcome for their future?
take note where I asked about Palestinians?
Read my response, Palestinians are humans.
Your question is answered.
Now run along and enjoy your weekend.no you didn't answer. you brought it down to be about individual humans having the ability/capability to do bad things.
I asked about Palestinians as a group, as an ethnonational group.
C’mon RK. It’s a stupid “gotcha” question that serves no purpose and accusing someone of cowardice for not playing a stupid game is schoolyard stupidity.
It’s not a gotcha question. It goes to the ability for Palestinians to get peace. For you, it’s easier to avoid answering it as it would mean you have to acknowledge that peace isn’t going to happen. Hamas and the majority of Palestinians have zero interest in changing and working towards real peace. Gazans are a fractured and corrupted bunch. The western world is kidding itself if it thinks peace will eventually break out.
Interesting read here @roady regarding Israeli's and Palestinians changing attitudes towards peace between 2000 and 2016.
https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/122375/1/Analysis_of_changing_Israeli_and_Pale...
I think a part of what you said is true, in the context of how decimated Gaza is post Israeli bombardment. I can't imagine Palestinians, particularly the younger generation would have too much hope for a peaceful outcome.
AndyM wrote:Here’s one for you Indo.
What are the ethical, and legal, limits of protests at Australian universities?
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/theminefield/the-ethical-and-lega...
Dont know, but whatever they are all protest group's should have the same right to protest, and if they allow hate speech towards one group and allow that group to feel unsafe, then you need to allow other groups to be able to do the same like a protest critical of Islam or critical of trans issues for example.
And if you are going to allow one protest group to camp out, then you need to allow other protest groups the same right.
One thing for certain no matter the protest it shouldn't see other students disadvantaged from using any facilities or attending classes, also protestor's should have to be university student's and not just randoms.
The podcast was interesting Indo, you've got an Egyptian muslim and an
American Christian, with the latter having (I think) Israeli sympathies.
As far as I could tell there was some genuine though very controlled friction between them.
At the same time, both are very wary of simplistic, provocative protests such as "anti-Zionist" and also Extinction Rebellion protests, while simultaneously saying that protests must involve some degree of tension.
So basically there must be a balance between the performative and the persuasive.
But Waleed said something that particularly caught my attention, it was about people who question why protesters have to disrupt things, such as traffic or whatever.
In other words they are saying "why can't you go and protest in a way that allows me to ignore you", which boils down to "do I like what you're protesting about".
So if we're going to be ok with protest, we have to be ok with disruption and with the tension that comes with that, while at the same time (hopefully) opening up genuine discussion.
Roadkill]
soggydog wrote:Roadkill wrote:wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:[quote=andy-macbonza wrote:Standard stuff from the useful idiots here and elsewhere who hate Israel . Attack condemn and deny everything Israel says at every opportunity in accordance with Hamas social media propaganda. Remain silent when the evidence proves otherwise. Wash rinse repeat.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-ha...
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/gaza-fatality-data-h...
https://www.cfr.org/blog/un-halves-its-estimate-women-and-children-kille...
The useful idiots here will be on right side of history mate.
You would have been calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist and encouraging them to nuke Vietnam.Opposing genocide does not make you anti semitic, your failure to understand this simple point says more about you and your heartless mates....
Anyway I'm out... This attitude is sickening to me. Look at the footage coming out of Gaza and you are going on about figures of 1000's of people being butchered with no where they can go, journos and aid convoys being deliberately targeted, and famine already taking hold.
But hey it HamThat's your defence?
Next week you will be saying Hamas attack on 7 October didn't happen.
I think this article is a good response to the waleed comment AndyM.
Some examples.
“At the very least, before embarking on actions that harm innocent people and violate their rights, protestors should have strong evidence that doing so really will achieve some great good that cannot be accomplished in any other way”
&
“they would likely agree that pro-life activists are not justified in occupying buildings in order to try to force the university to divest from businesses that profit from abortion,“
https://reason.com/volokh/2024/05/06/campus-anti-israel-protests-and-the...
AndyM wrote:The podcast was interesting Indo, you've got an Egyptian muslim and an
American Christian, with the latter having (I think) Israeli sympathies.
As far as I could tell there was some genuine though very controlled friction between them.At the same time, both are very wary of simplistic, provocative protests such as "anti-Zionist" and also Extinction Rebellion protests, while simultaneously saying that protests must involve some degree of tension.
So basically there must be a balance between the performative and the persuasive.But Waleed said something that particularly caught my attention, it was about people who question why protesters have to disrupt things, such as traffic or whatever.
In other words they are saying "why can't you go and protest in a way that allows me to ignore you", which boils down to "do I like what you're protesting about".So if we're going to be ok with protest, we have to be ok with disruption and with the tension that comes with that, while at the same time (hopefully) opening up genuine discussion.
It doesn't boil down to "do i like what your protesting about"
Most people are going to be pissed off about being fucked over no matter what the protest is about, if you are stuck in traffic for an hour because of a protest even if its a cause you are completely neutral on you are going to be pissed off, and even its a cause you agree with most people will be pissed off, and more likely to think, look i agree with your cause but i think you are going the wrong way about it and just making people angry and giving your group and cause a bad name.
We see this with extinction rebellion all the time, does anyone actually think they have brought any real awareness to the cause that we didn't already know? or gained extra support? very unlikely, if people are going to change their view or become more conscious or pro active in say reducing their carbon foot print its going to be because of awareness brought by more responsible means like a documentary or a vocal group of scientist banding together with some signed statement that gets world wide media attention
It's the same deal with current protest in universities perhaps initially people might think yeah okay you have the right to protest, but watching the news last night things seem to be getting pretty out there and crossing lines of what is acceptable and now you get to a point where unless the individual held an aligning view people that are neutral are more likely to think what a bunch of self entitled immature trouble makers.
People have a right to protest legally and peacefully, but their right to protest shouldn't over ride the rights of other people, especially when the protest are illegal or contain hate speech, destroy property or get violent.
Protest dont need to be disruptive, there is all kinds of way you can protest or bring awareness to an issue without pissing people off or breaking the law.
;);)
https://m.
This is probably worth a disruptive protest.
indo-dreaming wrote:AndyM wrote:The podcast was interesting Indo, you've got an Egyptian muslim and an
American Christian, with the latter having (I think) Israeli sympathies.
As far as I could tell there was some genuine though very controlled friction between them.At the same time, both are very wary of simplistic, provocative protests such as "anti-Zionist" and also Extinction Rebellion protests, while simultaneously saying that protests must involve some degree of tension.
So basically there must be a balance between the performative and the persuasive.But Waleed said something that particularly caught my attention, it was about people who question why protesters have to disrupt things, such as traffic or whatever.
In other words they are saying "why can't you go and protest in a way that allows me to ignore you", which boils down to "do I like what you're protesting about".So if we're going to be ok with protest, we have to be ok with disruption and with the tension that comes with that, while at the same time (hopefully) opening up genuine discussion.
It doesn't boil down to "do i like what your protesting about"
Most people are going to be pissed off about being fucked over no matter what the protest is about, if you are stuck in traffic for an hour because of a protest even if its a cause you are completely neutral on you are going to be pissed off, and even its a cause you agree with most people will be pissed off, and more likely to think, look i agree with your cause but i think you are going the wrong way about it and just making people angry and giving your group and cause a bad name.
We see this with extinction rebellion all the time, does anyone actually think they have brought any real awareness to the cause that we didn't already know? or gained extra support? very unlikely, if people are going to change their view or become more conscious or pro active in say reducing their carbon foot print its going to be because of awareness brought by more responsible means like a documentary or a vocal group of scientist banding together with some signed statement that gets world wide media attention
It's the same deal with current protest in universities perhaps initially people might think yeah okay you have the right to protest, but watching the news last night things seem to be getting pretty out there and crossing lines of what is acceptable and now you get to a point where unless the individual held an aligning view people that are neutral are more likely to think what a bunch of self entitled immature trouble makers.
People have a right to protest legally and peacefully, but their right to protest shouldn't over ride the rights of other people, especially when the protest are illegal or contain hate speech, destroy property or get violent.
Protest dont need to be disruptive, there is all kinds of way you can protest or bring awareness to an issue without pissing people off or breaking the law.
A couple of thoughts.
a) I really couldn't see you advocating violence if you actually agreed with what people were protesting against.
b) Without disruptive protests we most likely wouldn't have black freedom, women voting, gay rights etc etc.
Dunno if you'd use the term immature or entitled there.
Remember Martin Luther King Jr. who talked about “the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice.”
But yes, some causes use methods that alienate potential converts.
c) Of the 12 universities in Gaza, none are operating, none are functional.
Indo it sounds like you didn't listen to that podcast, maybe have a read of this instead.
"we constantly see examples where protest has made a difference. We have, already in 2024, seen blockades and protests by French farmers prompt the government to offer concessions. Likewise, in India, the renewed farmers movement marching towards Delhi has already prompted an offer from the government of improved prices for crops.
Mass street protests over a child sex abuse scandal in Budapest recently led Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán, to introduce legislation to address the scandal. Late last year, mass protests and street blockades in Panama led to the government closing one of the world’s largest copper mines.
Academic research also shows that protest can be influential. Workers’ protest and strike action was crucial in prompting Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal as part of the creation of the US welfare state. And disruptive protests have also slowed down the adoption of the austerity measures which have eroded welfare states across the high-income democracies for the past 40 years."
https://theconversation.com/why-protest-if-it-doesnt-make-a-difference-2...
Seriously...media want focus on Unis ...Why!
All this talk 'bout Hamas hiding Weapons Manufacturers in Kindies...
That's US/NATO doin' that shit...soon every Oz Kindy will be sponsored by US Weapons Industry.
Already every Oz town is building Child Killing Machines & Yes! They work exactly as intended!
2016-2023 (322 Oz Killing Weapons Permits for Israeli Genocide)
Not once did media do the maths on that...
[factcheck] Is as simple as this folks...ain't no tricks...just the facts!
Oz PM's prioritize Israeli Killing Machines for 46/69 Days they sit each year...
Each Oz PM devotes 66.6% of their days signing over weapons for Israel's Genocide.
Why! So our PM is not labelled Antisemitic! Small price to pay...All say Aye!
Correct...
All futile past / living / future existent lesser life forms combined are permitted max 33.4% of PM's Days in office!
What fool is that plain stupid & stubborn to doubt Israel is not the Centre of all past-future yet imagined Universes!
Sure...they don't also run 66.6% of other worlds...just our World then...so we're the freaks!
Dare any here to conspire that Israel owns 0.01% more than 66.6% of our World...risk being branded one of those!
Aukus Govt just sponsored 25,000 free Uni STEM Courses.
https://www.stemhub.com.au/contact-us
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Nuclear-Powered%20Submarine%20Student%20Pathways%20program%20guidelines.pdf
STEM = Schools That Exterminate Muslims
Yer Kidz get free showbags of discount housing, insurance, Medical...
All ya gotta do is commit to complying with whateva US Genocide slot spins up on Joe's wheel.
If ya don't wanna Kill Muslim kidz as a career then ya gotta pay a fortune & likely never be housed!
Wanna be a Socialist do-gooder & win a nobel peace prize...then pay for yer own Uni Degree ya scum.
Govt's ain't gonna fund yer sissy Hippie Love In World Peace classes...Kill Kill Kill is yer meal Ticket!
Don't act so shocked....Oz Primary School teachers are fighting off Aukus Defence Programming of Kidz
Already got Grade 4 kids painting their Fav Aukus Attack Class Killing Machines...( Not Joking!)
Thomas the $368b Lego Bush Master disintegrates the Pure Evil Anti Semitic Peacenik Smoko Van
https://www.melbournefoe.org.au/no_defence_curriculum
This has come on so fast...media are told to regurgitate mouldy copies of the Uni Cream Pie Drama...
While ADF are runnin' Oz Primary Schools Agendas & P&C Newsletters!
http://www.viewbankps.vic.edu.au/defence-force
https://www.defence.gov.au/adf-members-families/family-programs-services...
Don't believe it...see for yerselves how sick & cowardly & puny US / Oz defence are.
Total capitulating paranoid cowards...now militarizing our finger painting nurseries.
Chaplans replaced by Councilors now replaced by ADF school wardens
Here's just a small intro...
US are grooming Pre Kindy Troops.
Check this folks
1 month [180 views]...Not even on the radar...End of the World as we know it!
Most terrifyingly coward video the World has ever seen ...c/o Monsters Inc!
Exactly...all swear this is a Taliban indroctrination School...(Everything the free west fight against!)
Just so ya know...All Military Education Hubs require 100% Defence Certification of yer Town.
If you got one of these...then your town is already signing off Blow Kisses on Hamas Kindy Bombs
All these Cotton Wool Kids are immune from Bullying & have their Lives, Psychs & needs paid for!
Get yer hands & Brains washed at each meal time!
Ain't no one come into these "Growth Swing State Towns without Defence Certification"
Oz currently has 270 such towns... where you & your family must conform & comply to Defence Ways
All Defence Kids are Welcomed & Saluted on departure in Class Pageantry
Talkin' Mandated Defence Promo Columns in P&C Kindy newsletters...priority after hours Psych Staff...
Uncle SAM needs your 4 year olds as Human Shields.
[ Universal Prekindergarden ] Infiltrating your town if not already!
Sure...Comes with Secret Tunnels under each Sand Pit...Go on...Give it a blast!
Yet all media are going goo goo ga ga over Uni cream bun fights...Wake Up Straya...yer being played!
ACA say nothing 'bout Aukus Kindies cradle to grave free Health'n'Housing for Career Killers!
Sure...tbb has been tip toeing the Aukus Schools minefields...
Most definitely assure the crew...Oz lost the War...Aussie childhood was sold out for a Hot Dog!
Micro Gromz are right now being assimilated into Aukus Cyborgs ... like in a real life Dr WHO episode.
Calling for whateva kinda weird fucked up Transphobic Doctor WHO ya got these days...not fussy!
Influencer being an influencer.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/influencer-roasted...