Question
Playing through the game at the moment and
After you leave Tyrs Temple, there’s actually a line where Kratos says that it has come to war and I remember hearing that and being like ‘what, why?’. Later in Muspelheim, Atreus says hopefully they’ll understand why Ragnarok needs to happen now.
I assume I’ve missed a motivation or something because, at this point, I’m still thinking… why exactly? Like Atreus is safe, they have the mask, Odin actually doesn’t want Ragnarok… what is it after Broks death that seems to flip a switch?
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We have to understand everyone's motivations here before Brok is killed
Atreus: seeks answers, wants Odin to answer for his crimes, follows prophecy
Freya: wants revenge on Odin
Freyr: wants to protect Vanaheim but has immense hatred for Odin
Brok: neutral
Sindri: wants to avoid getting into any battle situations
Kratos: wants to go home
As you can see, pre Brok's murder, except Sindri, Brok and Kratos, Ragnarok satisfies everyone else's desire.
Post Brok's murder, both Sindri and Kratos switch to Vengeance as their primary goal. Kratos also mentions this just before the war is about to start. For both of them, Brok's murder itself is the tipping point which changes their motivation to revenge on Odin.
At this point, there isn't a way to get to Odin except Ragnarok. That's why the war must happen
Also, without spoiling, if you haven’t reached that certain point; but there is more dialog after the game about Brok that just leans into the groups specific respect for him and his friendship. I think the motivation was clear but with how much time is given to the first act of the game it does feel rushed.
Is it really vengeance for Kratos? It’s true he mentions as much after seeing Sindri in Tyrs temple, but he says something like ‘Why is it always vengeance?’. What he says didn’t give me the impression that he’s keen to pursue it as much as he cares for brok, though I could be wrong
Kratos : I came to these lands to escape my past. To start a new life. I can hide no longer. I do not want this war. We have suffered enough. Prophecy did not lead us here. Nor will it win this battle. Wars are won by those who are willing to sacrifice everything. If that is the cost of vengeance... so be it.
Freya : Odin has taken so much from us already. The realms have suffered enough. No matter the cost, this ends today.
Freyr : If going out in a blaze of glory means Odin burns too, then that's where I'll be. With a big, fat smile on my face.
Atreus : For Brok.
[Kratos steps forward and blows the Gjallarhorn]
Right! Interesting I definitely misunderstood a line from before then Thanks for that 👍
True he never wanted to fall back into his old ways attacking gods out of revenge or hatred or what have you but after brok he can’t just sit back I think the biggest thing is what it did to Atreus how broken Atreus was after broks death but all in all kratos cared for brok he saw everyone as his family and Odin took away a very important member of his family
Kratos makes it a point that vengeance is wrong to mimir as you defeat each berserker soul.
As far as I remember, Odin declared a war after he killed Brok
Will have to rewatch that scene then, might have missed that dialogue since I was still recovering from the twist
He's correct. Right before he leaves Odin says "I guess this means war after all".
They didn't want war because fake Tyr kept steering them to, it's a part of Odin's manipulation to abuse the goodness in their hearts against them. Ultimately, pacifism simply doesn't work against murderous tyrant like Odin the same way it didn't work against someone like Hitler.
Ragnarok was already greenlighted somewhat when they learned that it doesn't destroy the whole world but only Asgard. Freya and Freyr always want war because they've experienced Odin's cruelties firsthand, Mimir didn't want it not because he cared about Aesir, but because he cares that Kratos might die following the prophecy.
The last remaining straws were really just the respect they have for (fake) Tyr and inexperience-ness on Kratos and Atreus part. They've heard about Odin's stories, but Brok's death and how it broke Sindri was the first time they ever see that destructiveness in-action themselves. Also having the mask with them is exactly the reason why Odin will never leave them alone.
One of the biggest let downs of Ragnarok is that it should never have been the finale. The story is rushed like its no ones business in order to get to ragnarok and all subplots as fast as possible and its very evident from cetain parts of the game that feels rushed and less grandiose than they should have been
Well, that's because they decided on a duology instead of a trilogy. Overall I think they made it work though.
For the most parts they did yes. It could def have been worse. But man, It does bother me how utterly amazing it could also have been. One aspect I really disliked was how close together everything was. There was really no sense of vastness. Norns? Eh, around the corner from the lake of the first game. Sigrun also just happened to have lived near it. Sutr? Just on the other side of the same volcano you visited in the first game, and kind of just standing out in the open with a few swords around him.
Comparing it to Greece where Kratos travelled all over the country and its very noticable. I get they where restricted because of the gameplay never cutting to black but being a continuous experience, but when it affects the world building I think I’d rather prefer they dropped thst aspect for Ragnarok
Indeed, 2018 gow lets us know things about the norse world in an interesting way, slowly teasing us about the future games. Then they dump everything after broks death and end the game in 2 hours.
Well, I also agree that a lot of it felt a little rushed. That being said, I think you answered your own question. At least for Kratos killing Brok was that last straw! That was his final reason. I heard one of the game creators say that Brok was like the family dog... and Odin was going to kill him. Brok and Kratos had a special relationship that was built slowly over the two games and culminated with Brok blessing the spear for Kratos. That was such an important and impactful moment for both of them, and even though neither of them would ever say it, they loved each other like family at that point.
Then the betrayal and murder... in their own home!? That was it for Kratos. Odin had to die. He even says, "Why does it always come to vengeance?" Or something like that. You're right they had all the pieces... and the only way for Kratos to get to him now was to put them all together, blow the horn, and start the war. Even still, Kratos showed how much he had grown by telling Atreus to feel sympathy for the innocent lives lost, and then again when he ultimately will not kill Thor. He is there for Odin and Odin alone. The war was just the vehicle he needed to get himself to him.
God I loved these games so much! We must be better
Kratos refused to forgive Odin for murdering his friend. It's pretty straightforward
"It always comes to vengeance" Kratos just gotta kill odin for ol' Brok
There plan was to sneak in that’s what they were planning now Odin knows there coming and is prepared
Yeah but weren’t they going to sneak into Asgard to look into the tear with the mask so that they would be able to know how to avoid Ragnarok and subsequently Kratos’ death?
Do u remember at the beginning of the game when they found the prophecy about winning ragnarok nd only Asgard being destroyed this was always the plan but know they no Odin knows there plan so they have to go to war
I do remember them finding that prophecy but wasn’t Kratos very much against war/Ragnarok?
Kratos was against war in the same way he was against killing himdull some things just need to be done wether he likes it or not