cable news, biden is doing very well with the most engaged voters. it is the unengaged voters trump is doing well with. maybe some of them tune this stuff out. when they re-engage with trump, see the ads biden is putting up, do they change their view? the less engaged voters and the softer parts of the biden coalition are the key ones at this point. >> i think that's right. the biden campaign's theory of the case has always been, even if it's not until the fall, when people start paying attention, they'll be turned off by trump. we don't know what role this trial, especially if there is a conviction, may play. right now, though, very, very close. contributor to the conservative website "the bulwark," tim miller, thank you. hope you'll join us again soon. thanks to you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> "silence of the lamb," has anyone ever seen this? the late, great hannibal lecter

is a wonderful man. he'd oftentimes have a friend for dinner. remember the last scene? excuse me, i'm about to have a friend for dinner, as the poor doctor walked by. hannibal lector, congratulations. the late, great hannibal lecter. >> yeah. >> donald trump in new jersey, of all places, praising a fictional serial killer. that was good. >> this is exactly, mika, this is why the biden campaign desperately wants to see more bizarre moments like this during trump's rallies. i promise you, they're more upset donald trump is in trial right now than donald trump, because they know when he goes out on the road, people see, the guy is just not there. he is celebrating a fictional character there who -- one of

the most grotesque, horrifying people of movie history. >> yeah. >> by the way, if you're going to a rally like that, why are you cheering that on? what can you be thinking at that rally other than, this doesn't make sense? >> that is my point. this is why i disagree with the concern he is in court rather than on the campaign trail. i think when he is on the campaign trail, it is like a cult. they'll agree with anything. less is more in my opinion. seeing him in court is seeing him actually having to be accountable. different opinions. that's what we're about here. the former president will be back in court today in lower manhattan, where he will be face-to-face with his former fixer and attorney who is expected to take the stand in the criminal hush money trial. we'll get expert legal analysis ahead of michael cohen's testimony. we'll have full analysis and play by play all day today on mississippi n

msnbc. also ahead, the protests during college commencement ceremonies across the country, including the students who walked out during jerry seinfeld's speech at duke. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, may 13th. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. u.s. national editor at "the financial times," ed luce. joe, a lovely mother's day weekend. >> tell me about it. how did yours go? >> oh, mine was wonderful. my girls came to me. they gave me an ice cream machine. the ninja creamy. we made ice cream for four nights straight, like every different flavor you could imagine. that's all we did, and it was absolutely precious. how about yours? by the way, the post about your

mom, wow. >> you know, it's so interesting. everybody loves to talk about their mom. oh, she was so sweet and the most loving, and she was an angel. >> maryjo. >> as you know, maryjo loved joey. she loved me so much. some people would say, like, i was the apple of her eye after she got over having me. she wasn't really pleased to have a third child, but she eventually did. she was there every step of the way and was the biggest supporter. but, you know, there was another side of my mom that people don't talk about. i know this sounds weird. this is only, like, 20, 30 seconds, but i saw ed sheeran on howard stern's show last year, and it explains the success of my mom in being a mom. here is howard stern talking to

ed sheeran. >> you learn nothing from success, nothing. you learn everything from the failures. this is the thing that annoys me about the state that the world is in at the moment. no one talks about failure anymore. it's like shame. like, failure is shame, like, let's bury that and not talk about it. no one goes, what did we learn from this? with success, everyone shouts about it. there is nothing in success. success happens from failing hundreds of times. >> so the reason that reminds me of my mom is one of -- i think one of her best moments, you know, i played baseball. all-star, had a high average, all this stuff, bases loaded, key game, and i struck out. threw my bat down, walked to the car. i was so angry. i got in the backseat, and i said, i said, "i'm just going to quit." my mom, you know, drives off.

she quietly says, "well, if you can't do any better than that, joey, you'd be doing yourself and the family a great service by never playing baseball again." >> oh, ouch. >> right? so i sit back, and i'm like, what? that's not what a mom is supposed to say. guess what? it made me go out and practice harder. it was unconditional love. >> she knew you. >> man, she was tough. she was a tough mother, and she never -- like, no time for sympathy for, you know, if we messed up. she let us know. that combination of love and toughness, i think, it makes all the difference. by the way, we forgot to ask katty kay about her mother's day. how was your mother's day? >> oh, it was very nice. i only had one of my kids with me, but, remarkably, all of my children remembered, though they're in other countries around the world. i did hear from all of them. i had a mother who was a bit

like yours. she was not very sentimental. she very much had her own life and her own career. she was absolutely there and loved us, but she kind of expected us to get on with it. i mean, maybe parenting has changed, joe, in the last 40, 50 years. in our family, it was definitely not a trophy for everybody, even if you came in last. >> no. >> you tried hard. >> no! >> you were not a winner all the time. it was a different world. >> yeah. >> when we lost, my mom let us know. like, i lost a basketball game. i remember, again, backseat, you know, and i was scoring, like, 30, 35 points a game. we still lost, and my mother turns to my dad in the front seat, so her three children can hear it in the back. she goes, "you know, it would have been so great if god would have given us at least one natural athlete." >> aw, come on.

>> who says that? >> no! so, what happens, we get home, i get the basketball out, and i'm shooting for, like, the next two hours. this is parenting. i mean, it's not just hugging people and being -- you know, mika, the snowplow parents, where we want to do everything for our kids and don't want our kids to ever feel discomfort. no, that's not what being a good parent is about. >> you need to sit in it. >> that's not my experience with parenting, no. >> joe, your beautiful post about your mom actually got alex in trouble with his mom, so, you know, i love the post, but now alex's mom is mad. >> alex, want to tell us about that? maybe you want to say something about your mom? >> well, i get a text from my mom. >> here's your moment, alex. >> i get a text from my mom. she sent me joe's instagram post. she says, how come you don't post things like this about me? i said, well, joe's mom has passed. she said, well, why do you wait until i'm dead?

do it now. jewish mother on mother's day. i appreciate mom. i love her. and i will post something. i never post anything online, but maybe the first will be for her. >> for your mother. >> saying it on "morning joe" is pretty good, too, alex. >> that's right. >> when you only want to send your best. all right. there you go. mother's day. it is a wonderful day for so many people. happy belated mother's day to all. >> absolutely. we'll get to the news now. the united nations says more than 300,000 people have now fled the southern gaza city of rafah. the announcement came just hours after the israeli government issued a new evacuation order, raising fears troops may soon invade the area. last monday, the idf seized control of the gaza side of the rafah border crossing. since then, there has been intense fighting in the area. dozens of people have also been killed in air strikes. "the new york times" reports the top leader of hamas is not

hiding in rafah. some report he hasn't left kahn yunis, farther north. it is believed he is using hostages as human shields. intelligence agencies agree with this american assessment. secretary of state antony blinken spoke about america's concerns over israel's operation in rafah during an interview with nbc's "meet the press" yesterday. he was also pressed on president biden's threat to withhold weapons. take a listen. >> what we've seen over the last few months is a deep concern on our part about the possibility of a major military operation in rafah. given the damage it would do to civilians, there are more than 1.4 million gazans in rafah, most of whom have moved from other parts of gaza.

incredible plan to get them out of way and support them, the president has been clear, we won't support a military operation in rafah. >> i hear you say you haven't seen a credible plan for how israel would go into rafah and mitigate civilian casualties. is it fair to say that president biden and prime minister netanyahu are not seeing eye to eye right now? >> two things. one is that, as the president said and as we said in many conversations over the last couple of months, there has to be a credible plan for the civilians. >> have you seen a credible plan? >> we have not. >> i want to drill down with you on president biden's threat to withhold weapons. what exactly is his red line, mr. secretary? what would trigger him to say, "i am now withholding weapons?" >> look, we don't talk about red lines when it comes to israel. we talk, again -- >> president biden did talk about a red line, though, mr. secretary, respectfully. >> let me be -- yeah, let me be

clear. >> what would trigger him to make that decision? >> sure. so, first, we have been holding back and are in active conversations with israel about the provision of heavy or high-payload weapons, large bombs, because of the concern we have about the effect these weapons can have when they're used in a dense urban environment like rafah. we're discussing that with israel right now. second, what the president said is that if israel goes in with a major military operation in rafah, in that case, there are certain systems we will not provide to israel that would aid in that effort. it is something we do not want to be part of, given the damage it would do to civilians. again, not to achieve a durable, lasting, effective result for israel and its security. >> all right. richard haass, you just returned from a trip from the middle east where you had a chance to speak to leaders in off the record

conversations. what is your great takeaway on your visit, your talks, and where the united states and israel are right now in what seems to be the final stage of this war? >> good morning, joe. let me give you two takeaways. one is when you go through the arab world, it is hard not to be struck, how the arab leaders are ready to get close to israel. they got up in the morning. what are they worried about? they're worried about iran, the various offshoots, hezbollah, houthis, hamas, the muslim brotherhood and other groups, and, honestly, they've lost confidence in the united states over the last few administrations. they want to get close to israel. what they need, though, is enough from israel on the palestinian issue that they can manage this getting close domestically, which brings me to israel. in my meetings there, what you're seeing here is essentially what is happening totally. the israelis have prioritized

very clearly pursuing the war, prosecuting the war over getting back the hostages. that, to me, is plain as day. they're going into rafah. the only thing we don't know, joe, is exactly the dimensions of it. they're angry at the united states. i think they're surprised that the united states took the step that president biden did the other day. you know, i simply don't see any plan out of israel for what happens after rafah. that's my biggest takeaway. they'll go in, kill some more hamas fighters. unfortunately, some more civilians will get killed. but what then? there's no answer to that in israel. what prevents there from being an answer, and what we're probably looking at is a prolonged israeli occupation and some real messy situation in gaza, is the politics won't allow this israeli government or this prime minister won't move in the direction of offering something up to and working with the palestinians. i think we're going to have

rafah and, in a month, some of the fundamental questions that have been out there for seven, eight months now are going to be out there plain as day. >> well, and, ed luce, richard underlined something i've been hearing from leaders out of the middle east for some time. that is, we're ready to help. this is going back months. we want to help the israelis. we want to help with gaza. we can talk about a peacekeeping force. we can rebuild gaza. they want hamas out of there. said they'd do it, oddly enough, if the united states was there standing shoulder to shoulder with them. providing them support. again, we could just talk generally and not tell people what's actually going on here, but it is what's been going on for the past 10, 15 years.

netanyahu doesn't want that. netanyahu doesn't want a two-state solution. netanyahu wants to resettle israelis in gaza, or he wants gaza to be completely under the control of israel. he doesn't want peace there. he doesn't want gaza rebuilt. he doesn't want a strong independent gaza with arab nations acting as peacekeepers to protect them. >> saudi normalization, which is the biden administration's goal, would be a great win for israel, to have saudi arabia recognize israel finally after all these decades, but the price of that normalization would be precisely what netanyahu would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to do. namely, creating a viable palestinian authority to replace hamas, building up a non-violent

palestinian voice that can help govern a post-war gaza, as well as the west bank, which is governing. unfortunately, though, netanyahu's coalition, the right of his coalition, ben-gvir, who, as you know, tweeted last week, "biden loves hamas" when biden announced the pause of those weapons shipments, that coalition would consider any viable palestinian dialogue to be a betrayal of their values. they'd pull the plug, and there would be an election and netanyahu would probably go straight to jail. he has a conflict of interest. he does not want this war to end. he doesn't want to alienate the coalition members that are keeping him in power and out of the courtroom. >> richard, let's talk about what the american response can be here. we just heard secretary of state say there are no red lines compared to israel.

the president did use the phrase red line a few days prior, though, when he said they'd not be giving offensive operations, even as the administration continues to send defensive weapons and the like. israel has enough weapons to go into rafah. they don't need more from the u.s. beyond that rhetoric and making that decision, is there anything else this administration can do to try to shape what the next couple weeks would look like for netanyahu, rafah, and beyond? >> next couple weeks are going to be almost impossible to shape. israelis will do what they're going to do. even if we were to hold back on ammunition or weapons systems, my guess is the israelis will go ahead. the one thing we can shape, i think, is what comes after. that's why i've been arguing a long time the president needs to give a fully-developed speech about where he wants the israeli-palestinian conflict to go. this government in israel, as correctly pointed out, doesn't want to open that. for them, it threatens the coalition. i believe we have to do that. that is now up to the united

states. we have got to essentially express sympathy for october 7th. we've distanced ourself for much of what israel has done beginning october 8th. now, what is our vision for the governance of gaza, the palestinian issue? here is what we're expecting from palestinians, from the arab governments, and, by the way, here is what we are expecting from israel to do and avoid doing. here's what we, the united states, are prepared to do to make it a success. >> katty, the biden administration are obviously getting it from all sides, as you do whenever you're dealing with the middle east. joe biden being called genocide joe by radicals across the country. then, on the other side, you can't pick up "the washington post" -- "new york post" or the pro-trump newspaper that doesn't say he's abandoned the jews forever. it's as if those attacking him for actually putting some conditions on rafah have

forgotten that eisenhower did it during the suez crisis famously. nixon did it in '73 after israel had been attacked by arab faye neighbors. stopped israel from destroying the arab neighbors. george h.w. bush's administration constantly pushing back against illegal settlements. we've never written a blank check to israel. in '81, reagan, after the israelis bombed iraqi nuclear facilities, reagan pulled back and refused to transfer fighter jets that we had already promised them. this is something that happens. the lie that is being spread right now by trump and trump supporters is, america has always unconditionally supported israel. no. we've had to step in time and time again when their actions, though understandable from the inside, was destabilizing the

region and even the world. >> yeah, it was really interesting listening to the sunday shows this weekend. you had republicans like lindsey graham being asked about, you know, if it is okay for reagan, why isn't it okay for joe biden to put some kind of restrictions on israel? actually, you also saw very clearly with senator van hollen and bernie sanders, the splits playing out within the democratic party over this. i remember speaking to senator king when he'd come back from israel recently, saying, look, there are parallels between ukraine and israel. the russians are basically waiting for the west to lose interest, and hamas is basically waiting for america's own political divisions to play out in public in such a way it no longer becomes tenable for the white house to carry on supporting israel. it's interesting to see the divisions. chris van hollen, a supporter of joe biden's, who has been firmly on the side of the administration on very many issues, still critical of the

idea that we should be giving -- america should be giving arms to israel without any kind of restrictions. i mean, ed, you've been writing about this idea of the kind of links here between russia and israel and the united states, and how what is happening in hamas and the impact -- in gaza and what the impact that is having on american domestic politics, and how this is just -- you know, any time there are divisions in american politics, it is a win for who? it's a win for moscow. >> for moscow, quite right. the geopolitical beneficiary of what is going on in the middle east is putin, is dverted attention for what is going on in ukraine. it's easier to say the united states has double standards. when it comes to gaza, it turns a blind eye to the mass civilian casualties going on there, supplies weapons to israel. when it comes to ukraine, it

wants the global south and the world to condemn it. this is a false narrative, but it is easier for him to make that narrative. therefore, if putin is the geopolitical winner from chaos in the middle east, biden is the big geopolitical loser. the more this goes on on the ground in gaza, and the more this rafah operation limbers up to happen, the more putin is going to be rubbing his hands in glee. as you know, he's preparing a big offensive, spring offensive in ukraine. our attention is going to be at least partly elsewhere, in rafah. >> yeah. you know, mika, ed was talking about civilian casualties. we're going to have a story on this later, but the united nations has actually cut in half the civilian casualties that

have occurred in gaza, especially the number of women and children that have been killed. i know this will shock a lot of people watching, but hamas lies. hamas has been given inflated numbers over the past five, six months. they've been reported without question. the united nations finally, finally a couple days ago actually looked at a lot of the numbers and said, it's not possible. these numbers are grossly inflated. we'll get all those numbers specifically coming straight up. again, breaking news, hamas lies about israel. >> u.s. national editor at "the financial times," ed luce, and president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass, thank you for coming on this monday morning. coming up in one minute, donald trump's former fixer is set to take the stand today in the ex-president's criminal hush money trial.

michael cohen's long-time adviser, lanny davis, joins us ahead of today's highly-anticipated testimony. also ahead, as you drink your morning coffee, we need to talk about starbucks. we're going to read from a piece that says the company's menu has gotten out of control. we'll explain that. we're back in 60 seconds. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur.

tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. wealth-changing question -- are you keeping as much of your investment gains as possible? high taxes can erode returns quickly, so you need a tax-optimized portfolio. at creative planning, our money managers and specialists work together to make sure your portfolio and wealth are managed in a tax-efficient manner. it's what you keep that really matters. why not give your wealth a second look? book your free meeting today at creativeplanning.com. creative planning -- a richer way to wealth. stormy daniels, seen here,

as drawn by the creator of "cathy" was accused by trump's lawyers of lying about their affair for profit, which would make her the only person to do business with trump and make money. it's also been implied that stormy daniels got into bed with trump and let him do whatever he wanted just to advance her career. you know, like every republican. the donald trump hush money criminal trial kicks off its fifth week this morning with one of the most anticipated witnesses of the entire trial, expected to take the stand today. michael cohen, the former attorney and fixer for trump, is set to testify about his role in negotiating the hush money payment to adult film actress stormy daniels on trump's behalf. during the 2016 presidential campaign, trying to keep her quiet about an alleged sexual

encounter with trump. cohen contends the reimbursements to him were falsified at trump's direction, which is central to the prosecution's case, but the defense will undoubtedly hammer away at cohen's credibility. in 2018, he pleaded guilty to federal campaign finance violations and other charges and was sentenced to three years in prison.taking the stand, cohen was a key point of discussion on friday when judge juan merchan told prosecutors to ask cohen to stop commenting publicly about the former president or the hush money trial itself. trump's lawyers argued that it was not fair for their client to be under a gag order and not be able to talk about cohen while cohen was free to talk about trump. additionally, prosecutors said they have two witnesses left to call and may be able to rest their case by the end of this

week. the defense may then call its own witnesses. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. also with us, the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend al lisa, what are you looking forward to? what can we expect? >> before the trial started, i expected michael cohen sort of to be the narrator or the tour guide here. he's the one person, other than allenweisselberg, who won't be testifying, who might have had a view of the entire narrative from start to finish, from that august 2015 meeting where david pecker, michael cohen, and donald trump devised the conspiracy for how they were going to use american media and, specifically, the "national enquirer," to ensure donald trump had his best chance at election, all the way through the end of 2017, when the repayment scheme was finished.

i was wrong about that. instead of being the narrator, think about cohen today as sort of the sum up guy. specifically, the guy who is going to fill the gaps that can't be filled by other witnesses. there are several episodes here that are uniquely within michael cohen's knowledge and for which there is no substitute. specifically, conversations that he had with trump in which trump may have, as he put it when he pled guilty in august 2018, directed him specifically to ensure that the payments to karen mcdougal and stormy daniels were made. after the election, any conversations that they had that would tie trump directly to that repayment scheme that prosecutors allege constituted 34 counts of falsification of business records. we've seen evidence to date that those payments were, in fact, disguised as payments for legal services that were never rendered, pursuant to a retainer agreement that seemingly didn't exist.

what we haven't seen so far is any direct evidence that donald trump himself directed that. at best, we've seen a piece of paper showing that allen weisselberg, his trusted deputy and the former cfo, sort of sketched out exactly how the repayment scheme was going to work. donald trump himself signed nine checks attached to which there was paperwork saying they were for legal services and they were for a retainer by each month. count on michael cohen then today to start filling those gaps in the already substantial evidentiary record, but they're gaps only michael cohen can fill. >> as michael cohen fills these gaps, because he's the one now that the prosecution has laid out the case, the checks, the weisselberg correcting or etching some stuff out and putting in what they want, all of these things like bread crumbs leading somewhere. cohen is the one who can say

exactly what happened, exactly what the conversation was, and he went to jail in part for this. he's already done time here. >> yes. >> for the prosecution, they've laid that out before the defense to say that michael cohen is not a credible witness, well, he is conceding that. i went to jail for exactly what donald trump and i did, for those reasons. and doesn't it, lisa, at least put the defense in a peculiar position, that if cohen testifies to this and keeps his cool and does this under fire, the only evidence they can bring in to counter him would be to put donald trump on the stand? if donald trump and michael cohen had these conversations confidentially, how do they contradict it in defense? >> i don't think they're going to contradict it directly, rev. what they're going to do is pick apart michael cohen's credibility. unfortunately, michael cohen has given them ammunition to do so.

when michael cohen pled guilty to a series of federal crimes, one of the things he pled guilty to was tax evasion that wasn't connected to his misdeeds for donald trump. he has subsequently said publicly, many times, i actually didn't commit those crimes. i said that i did in front of a federal judge, under oath, to spare my family. that may be intelligible to people, but that still constitutes a lie under oath. they are going to use that to their advantage to pick michael cohen apart and say, if you were lying then when you pled guilty to these other crimes, how do we know you're not lying now and you didn't lie also about the campaign finance scheme in order to save your own hide? >> right. this has been thrown in his face before. in february of 2019, michael cohen testified on capitol hill where he said he was ashamed he took part in, quote, concealing mr. trump's illicit acts rather than listening to my own conscience. he also went toe to toe with

republicans, including gop congressman jim jordan of ohio, for what cohen said was a mischaracterization of his guilty plea in 2018 to federal campaign finance violations and other charges. take a listen. >> we just had a five-minute debate where mr. cohen disputes what the southern district of new york found, what the judge found, that he was guilty of committing bank fraud. if this statement back here doesn't say it all, "cohen's consciousness of wrongdoing is pleading his remorse is minimal, instinct to blame others is strong," only one thing wrong with that statement. his remorse is nonexistent. he debated a member of congress saying, i didn't do anything wrong for what i'm going to prison for. >> that's not what i said. you know that's not what i said. >> would the gentleman yield? >> i pled guilty and take responsibility for my actions. >> the time has expired. >> shame on you, mr. jordan.

that is not what i said. shame on you. >> mr. chairman -- >> that is not what i said. what i said is i took responsibility, and i take responsibility. what i was doing is explaining to the gentleman that his facts are inaccurate. i still take responsibility for my mistakes, all right? i am remorseful. i am going to prison. i will be away from my wife and family for years. so before you turn around and you cast more -- >> i understand that. >> -- dispersion, understand, there are people watching you today that know me a whole lot better. i made mistakes. i own them. >> over his shoulder, you see that gentleman right there, lanny davis. let's bring in legal adviser to michael cohen, lanny davis. thanks for coming up. what can we deduce from the michael cohen we saw in that clip and potentially the michael cohen who will take the stand today? >> well, i talked to michael

last night, almost every night, and good to see joe scarborough. it was back in 1998 that we worked a little bit in the hallways of cnn, around the problems that president clinton faced. he ultimately had to go public and express remorse. michael and i talked last night. we recalled the journey we've been on,mika. late june of 2018, before he went public, i asked him, how is anyone going to believe you after ten years of lying for donald trump? he said to me then, and he repeated in front of a national and international audience, live under oath, "i'm ashamed of what i did. i have remorse for what i did, and i will take the consequences and go to prison for what i did." so you are going to hear that during today's and this week's testimony. that michael cohen owns what he did wrong and apologized and

took the punishment by going to prison. you're also going to see everything, everything that michael cohen testifies to. after spending years with these prosecutors, behind closed doors with michael and me, everything will be corroboratd by documents and witnesses loyal to donald trump. that's why i believe this jury, despite the attacks and personal attacks on michael, will believe michael cohen. >> that's what i was going to ask you. obviously, he can make that very emotional display of being accountable and even paying for his crimes, but the defense will undermine his credibility as best they can because he has openly lied. you're saying that there won't be anything that he says in court that isn't backed up by some sort of receipt?

>> that's correct. but let me complete the sentence. he lied on behalf of and for the benefit of donald trump. he owned those lies. he doesn't defend those lies. you have to finish the sentence. i would also remind lisa rubin, who i greatly respect, that a great criminal defense lawyer, who is defending michael, former member of the southern district of new york, that when he was in court on the tax crimes, he was talking about the disproportionate criminalization, being forced to plead guilty, she said, because on a friday night for the first time, he was threatened with an indictment of his wife unless he pled guilty. an indictment the following monday. she said that was a coerced situation. he doesn't excuse himself. he went to prison for those crimes, and he served his time. but he will turn to the jury, and he will say, "i own those, and now i'm telling you the

truth. they're backed up by documents and by others." it'll be up to the jury to decide the credibility. personal attacks by mr. trump's lawyers were attempted in the trial before the attorney general. vicious cross-examination. what did the judge end up concluding? he found michael cohen credible. i think that will be the case for this jury. >> lanny, i have a question for you. which is, at that last trial that you were just talking about, when michael cohen testified at the civil fraud trial, one of the ways that trump's people exploited what they felt were inconsistencies in his testimony was to call attention to the word "directed." they said that michael cohen first testified that trump asked him to do things, and then in the second day, he clarified that he was never personally directed to do something. that strikes me as a situation where wording really matters here. how do you think michael cohen is going to deal with that today? he's already said at his plea allocution that president trump

directed him to be involved with the stormy daniels and karen mcdougal payments. should we expect to hear the same today? >> yes, lisa. you'll also remember the federal prosecutors working for donald trump's justice department filed the public document on december 7th, 2018. people forget this. the southern district prosecutors said that the hush money was paid under the direction and coordination of individual one, which was donald trump. so i cite the same facts with the ample fbi search and supported investigation, with southern district of new york prosecutors found as a fact, on the same facts, that michael cohen was directed in the coordination with donald trump. whether this jury reaches the same conclusion as the federal prosecutors working for donald

trump's justice department is up to the jury to decide. don't forget the document, lisa. you should read it. >> okay. legal adviser to michael cohen, lanny davis, thank you very much. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, thank you. lisa, real quick, this is going fast. do you expect this week to move quickly? >> i think that's all up to a man named todd blanche, who we understand going to be doing the cross-examination. i expect the direct to be surgical and relatively quick, mika, but how long the defense intends to spend excoriating michael cohen for past mistakes and perceived inconsistencies in his testimony, that's up to them. >> okay. coming up, the latest on the -- thank you, lisa -- wave of pro-palestinian protests on college campuses, as comedian jerry seinfeld's commencement speech at duke university spurs walkouts. >> just for a minute, i mean, it was a great speech. >> i think it was right before it started, yeah. >> yeah. i mean, it was a great speech.

99.9% of the people there loved the speech. yeah, a couple people walked out. >> we'll cover it. we'll show you what happened. plus, a postal service worker makes the trip from texas to arkansas to deliver long, lost world war ii letters. >> incredible story. >> how he tracked down the recipient's family. that's ahead on "morning joe."

♪ limu emu... ♪ and doug. (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds) chief! doug. (inaudible sounds) ooooo ah. (elevator doors opening) (inaudible sounds) i thought you were right behind me. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ my fear of recurrence could've held me back. but i'm staying focused. and doing more to prevent recurrence. verzenio is specifically for hr-positive, her2-negative, node-positive early breast cancer with a high chance of returning, as determined by your doctor

when added to hormone therapy. verzenio reduces the risk of recurrence versus hormone therapy alone. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor, start an antidiarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain, and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are nursing, pregnant, or plan to be. i'm focusing on what counts. talk to your doctor about reducing your risk. ♪ oh, yeah, man. about reducing your risk. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover.

every day, more dog people, and more vets are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood i don't want you to move. get 50% off your first box i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity.

whoa, what's that, grandpa? look at us knuckleheads. and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes. you look good. you as well. one, two three. grandpa! what's this, ellie? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. wooooooo! whoa! on your wing, grandpa!

if you have been at this amazing place for four years and still have no idea what you like, what you're interested in, or what you want to do in life, you are the luckiest ones here. those of you that think you know what you want to do are very likely wrong and perhaps even overestimating your ability to do it. you have convinced yourself that you know who you are and what is going on in the world. you don't know either. the less secure and confident you feel in the direction, the more surprises and excitement you will have in store. that's good. >> amen. amen. >> very good advice. >> yes. >> i knew what i wanted to do. >> you knew what you wanted to do? >> oh, i did since i was 14.

>> at 22? >> at 14. >> i still don't know what i want to do. i'm serious. >> i -- >> i'm still going, i wonder -- >> i can back you up. >> i wonder what this is -- exactly. that's crazy. you knew what you wanted when you left college. jonathan lemire -- >> when i was 14, joe. listen. >> when you were 14. >> i watched my dad doing interviews with all these people, and i said, i want to do that. >> yeah, i'll be honest, i woke up this morning, and i didn't want to do this. i'm joking. i love doing this every day. jonathan lemire, did you know when you graduated from college, what you wanted to do? >> i had some vague ideas. mostly because i wasn't good at most other things, so that led me to journalism. i can read, write. i'm interested. i can't do math. terrible at science. no ability with foreign languages. wow, that is narrowing down quickly, what i can do to put food on the table. in college, i did enough

journalism and i was like, i like this enough, but i will say, i wasn't like, this is going to be it for sure. i didn't know that. >> right. >> once i got to actually practice it at college and internships and beyond, i said, okay, this will be the path for me. >> if he knew his fate, he would have cried. >> exactly. i know. well, i went to law school, katty, to buy time, then went to congress to buy time. then went to tv to buy time. i bought myself a lot of time. i'm not exactly sure where it is going. did you know at 22 what you were going to do? >> no. i left university with a kind of very nice but rather useless degree in french and italian medieval literature. i went and joined the bank of england, which is, you know, like the federal reserve. after a year, i realized they disliked me as much as i disliked them. i went off to zimbabwe and thought i'd be an economist. every time you think you have

good news, it turns out to be bad. when you think it is bad news, it is good news. i realized my brain wasn't big enough to try and figure all of that out. >> every morning when we have andrew ross sorkin on here. >> why? >> good news is bad news, and bad news is good news, it just shows nobody knows nothing. what about you, rev? you were running around the world with james brown when you were younger. you better have known what you were doing. you'd either end up in jail or fall off a roof. >> i was a boy preacher. i was 4, 5 years old, so i grew up knowing what i wanted to do. >> you had the calling early, just like mika. >> yeah. i had the calling early, just like mika. then when i was 12, i became youth director in new york over what was left of dr. king's chapter here. i knew i wanted to do civil rights, knew i wanted to continue the ministry.

it was how i wanted to do it. james brown being a key figure in my life for my teenage years always kept me in the ministry. he never wanted me -- i remember some promoters would say, you ought to go in promotion and make money. james brown said, stay in your calling. he was strict on me, the opposite of what people would think. i never questioned what i wanted to do and to become. i questioned how i would want to do it. that's where sometimes that could be more dangerous because you stray and you experiment. then i came up at a volatile time. people would have to spank me, like mrs. king, back into non-violence and watch my rhetoric. i never had a conflict on what i wanted to be. it's how i wanted to be that. >> how. that's great. jerry seinfeld's commencement address and great advice at duke university came yesterday amid the climate of campus unrest across the country.

nbc news correspondent elwin lopez reports. >> reporter: comedian jerry seinfeld taking the stage at duke university. >> thank you. >> reporter: where he was scheduled to deliver the commencement address and receive an honorary degree. soon after he was introduced sh students walked out. some waving palestinian flags. chants erupted. it comes after weeks of protests at colleges nationwide against the israel-hamas war. seinfeld later delivering his speech. >> again, a lot of you are thinking, i can't believe they invited this guy. too late. i say, use your privilege. i grew up a jewish boy from new york. that is a privilege if you want to be a comedian. >> reporter: the sitcreater taking to instagram, "i will always stand with israel and the jewish people," later visiting tel-aviv. the university saying, "we expect the right of everyone at duke to express their views

peacefully." it's the latest in a series of interruptions at graduations across the country. at u.c. berkeley's, the student body president's speech was interrupted. >> this wouldn't be perfect without a protest, so i get it. >> reporter: in wisconsin, a handful of students turned their backs on the chancellor. some wearing graduation caps with messages like "free palestine." at the university of texas, dozens protested on campus after the ceremony concluded. the tension on campuses nationwide coming to a boiling point, just as universities and colleges break for the summer. >> nbc's elwin lopez with that report. >> mika, i don't want people to conflate different things. violent protests on college campuses with a peaceful walkout at a ceremony. peaceful walkout at duke. there was a -- i find it hard to

believe, but i guess i shouldn't, i find it hard to believe that a commencement address by a student was interrupted at berkeley. but it happened, and she smiled and took it in stride. you know, obviously, it is an american's right. it's what makes our country so great. you can get up and walk out. you know, it is the hecklers veto, the shouting speakers down. and the far-left wanting to ban people like christi lagarde, wanting to ban people like condi rice. let them speak. if you have a problem and you want to show your disagreement, get up and peacefully walk out. >> yeah. i completely agree. it appears that happened there in the case. >> yeah. >> i thought jerry seinfeld's advice was amazing. still ahead on "morning

joe," what we're now learning about ludwig von beethoven's hair, and how it is offering insights into the composer's health issues. plus, the incredible half court buzzer beater by jamal murray as the nuggets tie the semifinal series against the timberwolves. pablo torre is standing by with his take. what a game this was. we'll be right back.

tamra, izzy, and emma... they respond to emails with phone calls... and they don't 'circle back', they're already there. they wear business sneakers and pad their keyboards with something that makes their clickety-clacking... clickety-clackier. but no one loves logistics as much as they do. you need tamra, izzy, and emma. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you with a retirement and benefits plan that's right for your team. let our expertise round out yours. (♪♪) [shaking] itchy pet? (♪♪) with chewy, save 20% on your first pharmacy order so you can put an end to the itch. get flea and tick medication delivered right to your door. [panting] a lot of new dry eye patients

in my office tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it. they've tried artificial tears again and again, but the relief is temporary. xiidra can provide lasting relief. xiidra treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. don't use if you're allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. doctor: why wait? ask your eye doctor about a 90-day prescription for xiidra today.

edwards. turnover and going to the other end. tries and gets it to go. beating the clock. it's intercepted. murray good if it goes. got it! got it! a big-time three! >> oh! >> come on. jamal murray with the denver nuggets hitting a long buzzer-beater in the first half last night. defending nba champs kept up the momentum in the second half and picked up their second straight road victory against the minnesota timberwolves. the win evens up the second round series at two games a piece. in the easton conference, ay-ay-ay. the pacers led by 43 points in the series-tying victory. the teams go back to madison

square garden tomorrow night for game five. let's bring in the host of "pablo torre finds out on" meadowlark media, pablo torre, oh, my lord. >> yeah, not great. >> for people my age, we remember the memorial day massacre 1985. larry bird and the celtics just absolutely crushed the lakers, like 148-112, something like that. >> mother's day. >> memorial day. now, we've got the mother's day massacre. this was really ugly yesterday. it needs to be said, the lakers got absolutely blown apart in game one in '85. ended up winning the series, 4-2. this series far from over. we're reset, going back to madison square guarden. >> yeah, the mother's day massacre dynamic to the story, joe, and the history, of course, is appreciated, is rooted in the fact the knicks were the embodiment of toughness for the

postseason. i came on the show with you last week, and i praised the grit and the cliches, basically, you get from a team that just plays so much bigger than they are. there's a point in every playoff run where you go from grit and toughness to the black knight from "monte python," where you're insisting to everybody as you're losing limbs, that it is only a flesh wound. >> flesh wound. >> this is where the knicks are right now. they're bleeding out. they're paying more guys who are injured than they are guys who are actually healthy and playing. four of the top five players are all hurt. >> yeah. >> it is a valiant effort. tom thibodeau, their coach, likes to wear guys' ligaments to the bone in the literal sense. they'll go down fighting. the issue is the pacers have come back. they're excellent. the knicks are just sort of blood on the floor everywhere, which is not a great sign heading back to the garden. >> sounds like the red sox. i mean, they're now getting -- >> a little bit.

>> -- guys who are delivering food in the suites, now starting games there. >> yup. >> you know, if the knicks don't win this series, they'll go back and look at game three as the one that got away. knicks should have won that game. >> yeah. i mean, look, these games, the knicks have been really good at pulling out. game three, you had the confidence of look at how they're playing at the end. it's all set up in the same way. jalen brunson is the name i want people to appreciate. brunson is the best player on the knicks, small guard, defying expectations with every single move he makes. in the game three, he had a food injury. i don't want to reduce everything to the fragility of the human meat sack. >> beautifully said. >> jalen brunson's foot is that thing, where you're like, this feels like a cosmic destiny in the wrong direction. >> yeah. i was just talking about the foot instead of the meat sack with the shoe. of course, the nuggets come back, defending champions, down

2-0. they win two in minnesota. >> yes. >> come on, they're probably going to win it all. they'll probably take it all the way, aren't they? >> i feel stupid because i -- look, anthony edwards, who is doing his best michael jordan karaoke rendition, is incredible. 44, 5 and 5 in the loss. the reminder here, they're the defending champs, nuggets are, for a reason. >> for a reason. >> this series, this game, in particular, was a clinic in, i think, the two best teams in the postseason. the timberwolves, the young upstart, and the nuggets led by jokic, looking like an underworld mob boss. he is all shoulders, enormous, phenomenally skilled. one of the softest touches in nba history. maybe one of the best european players in the nba history. he is the mvp of the season. he is saying, why are you counting us out? now, again, as they say, joe, when you win two at home and two at home, it is 0-0. let's see who the best team is. the nuggets, yeah, they're

fearsome, terrifying right now. >> they are fearsome. tom brady did a little cleanup operation this weekend on instagram. >> speaking of fearsome. >> gisele rightly said she was disappointed and once again showed he put nfl and fame over the family. tom got on instagram and started saying nice things about his ex. >> for context, this was the last slide in one of the instagram carousels. i hate i am an investigative reporter who is investigating the comments on the post, he is getting praise, joe. i'm glad he did it, but it raises a question i now am contemplating. during the roast, the one joke he objected to was not a joke about gisele or his family or bridget moynahan. >> exactly! >> which joke was it? >> yeah, about the billionaire.

>> bob kraft, the massage joke. >> i will just say, i love bob kraft. mika's family has known him. he is a wonderful father. >> a lot of good work. >> great man, doing great stuff for israel. and i was glad he defended him. but as you pull away from it, i'm sure bob kraft would say the same thing, like, dude -- and you kind of got the sense that kraft and belichick were kind of looking at brady going, what are you doing? >> yeah. >> if you're going to get up and object, you object when they talk about the mother of your children. >> yeah. >> you object when they talk about your children. he just -- he just -- i'm sorry, he just didn't get it. he did not get it. >> it was one of the weirdest things i've seen, joe. >> hear, hear.

>> it was a relentless orgy of humiliation, and he was the executive producer, trying to be tender ris tenderized into likability. the bob kraft joke wasn't a bit. this is the back story for why gisele bundchen, supermodel, mother of his kids, is the last slide of mother's day. it is a weird rabbit hole, but i'm glad to be in it with you. finally, let's talk about something the people care about in the sports world. that is probably, and correct me if i'm wrong, but probably the most exciting debut for a pitcher since fernando with the dodgers. paul skenes. from lsu, throws 102 miles per hour. his off-speed pitches are what make him a complete pitcher. he had a pretty great start. then, of course, his reliever, like, walked in about 18 runs.

>> yes, yes. seven strikeouts in four innings and change. this guy, joe, for people who don't know paul skenes, the legend of him, he is hailed as a generational prospect. once in a generation sort of an arm. the only issue with him, because he throws so hard, is the comps you hear on the more cynical side of things are, steven strasberg, mark pryor, guys also hailed as generational prospects whose arms fell off their bodies because they threw so hard, because their mechanics weren't all there. >> right. >> what we're seeing here, though, is a guy who just makes it look easy to me. you hope that his career is long and bountiful and not like the other names, strasberg and pryor. he is a special kid. the pirates, you know this, joe, the pittsburgh pirates have been thirsting for something like this. now, they have it. >> right. >> paul skenes, we pray for your

health and your arm. baseball is a better sport when the best ballpark in america, i believe, that ballpark you just saw. >> it is great. >> gets an ace to inhabit it, yeah. >> jonathan lemire, mika will tell you, i do not turn away from boston red sox games. like, if there is a nuclear blast, if there were a nuclear blast, she could go, honey, turn over to msnbc. they've just nuked a couple of towns. i'd say, all right, sweetie. listen, could you get the fallout shelters ready? we have about four more innings here. i don't turn it over. jack and i turned it over to watch skenes. following what pablo said, what hit me was, we all wanted to see the 102 mile an hour fastball, you know, up high. this kid was actually relying on his off-speed pitches more. after three minutes, i'm like, smart kid, he actually wants to pitch for a couple years. he wasn't just throwing the fastball. a lot of off-speed pitches. he's got a great one. >> first of all, the mushroom

cloud has to wait, devers is up. i know the philosophy. strasberg is the name i thought of, as well, not just because of the worries about his health, but that was the last time we had a debut this anticipated. strasberg was so good when he pitched in his debut for the nats. struck out 12 guys. doing better than skenes yesterday. he is on a pitch count, a young kid. they weren't letting him go too deep into the game. he looked impreimpressive, thro hard, off-speed stuff, as well. pittsburgh is one of our great sports cities. certainly, sport is better, baseball is better when the pirates are good. they have some young talent now. they're building around him. the owner needs to spend some more money, but that was fun to see. sox took two out of three against the nats. couple wins at home. >> oh, boy. >> they did. now, of course, the entire sports world, they're only focusing on the next seven, ten games or so. the sox now start playing a.l. east rivals.

seven of the next ten will be against the rays. we're going to see if they are a mediocre team or a genuinely bad team. pitching still setting records. >> extraordinary. >> it is extraordinary, what they're doing. >> they're hitting it. >> pablo, thank you. we want to have you on every day. you're so good. >> all right. i got juan soto next time, guys. thank you. >> okay. >> wanted to talk about juan soto. gee, we ran out of time before we could talk about the yankees, mika. >> next time. >> next time. thank you. it is almost 11 past the hour. we're going to get to the latest on former president trump's criminal trial. danny cevallos and danny deutsch coming up to talk about and preview michael cohen's testimony today. first, some politics for you. "axios" has compiled a list of responses from elected republicans, when asked if they

would accept the results of november's elections. their answers are far from reassuring. it all starts with donald trump who has not committed to accept the results of the 2024 race. senator jd vance told cnn's "state of the union" yesterday he'll accept the results if they're, quote, fair and free. in february, he told abc news that if he were vice president in 2020, he would have told states to submit alternate slates of electors and let congress decide. senator tim scott dodged eight times when "meet the press" host kristen welker asked if he'd accept the next election's result, calling it a hypothetical question. congresswoman elise stefanik said she'll accept results if constitutional, but also said the 2020 election was not because of covid-era changes to voting. senator lindsey graham told "meet the press" on sunday that he'll accept the results if there is no massive cheating.

and congressman byron donalds will accept the results if he thinks they're fair and if states follow their own laws. joe, i just -- well, i'll send this right to you. what do we do with this? i mean, what do -- how are voters -- >> it's all subjective. >> -- supposed to process this information? >> well, you've got one party that says they'll accept the results of the election if they like the results of the election. they say things that are all very subjective. if they think it is fair. go back to 2020. you had members of the trump administration responsible for protecting voting in 2020, saying it was the safest election, the cleanest election in american history. and with that background, you've had republicans who have refused to accept the results.

it's all subjective. if they like the results, they'll accept the results. if they don't like the results, they won't accept the results. let's bring in donny deutsch, host of the podcast "on brand with donny deutsch." great podcast. you're also an ad legend, advertising legend, branding legend. let's talk about the republican brand here. you know, don't need to engage in hyperbole. the peaceful transition of power has been the guarantor of american democracy, of western democracy for centuries. where the loser accepts the results. we've seen -- you know, in our lifetime, we saw al gore do it in the most extraordinary way, the most dramatic way. it's putting country over party.

so, you know, here, we have a vote. we're going to have a vote this fall. i know a lot of republicans, jon meacham would call them peter melar vest-wearing republicans, saying, i always vote for a republican. no, this year, you're not just voting for a republican. it is a vote for a candidate who doesn't believe in the most basic principles of democracy. i don't want to waste my breath on it. everybody knows about the killing of generals, et cetera, et cetera. but you have republicans, the vest-wearing republicans who want to say, you know, it is republicans and democrats. what's the difference? it's a vote, actually, for somebody that does not subscribe to the most basic precepts of

american democracy against a candidate who does. it's that simple, donny, isn't it? >> it is. we've said many times on the show, when an authoritarian tells you what they're going to, do pay attention to him. now, his followers are going to tell you what to do. pay attention to it. for anybody, joe, we can take off the list, whether it is no longer a free election, whether it is a weaponized justice department, whether it is an independent federal communications commission, on and on. people say, it's not going to happen because we have the checks and balances, institutions. you're already seeing, there will be no checks and balances. we have the tell for fearless leader and the tell from the followers. there is no mystery here. anybody who votes republican and doesn't understand you are voting for the end of democracy, just pay attention to the sunday

shows this past weekend. the other thing, and i've talked about this as a man, the pathetic men, the spinelessness, the obsequiousness, the sucking upness, i don't know how they face their loved ones. i don't know how they talk to their children. >> donny, these are the guys that -- >> tough guys. >> -- talk about masculinity, right? tough guys. as i've always said about the war on masculinity, like, if you are a real man, you don't really notice that people are trying to declare a war on masculinity. you just go out and do what you're supposed to do, and you tune out the noise. yet, these guys that play tough guys and want, you know, the world to be more manly, they're the least masculine men. they are the guys that went to ivy league colleges and won't defend their father's honor.

they won't defend their wife's honor. they will allow donald trump -- >> amen. >> -- to say the worst, most humiliating things about them. >> yeah. >> constantly -- how do i say it politely? >> obsequiously. >> don't use the word, joe. i used it once. i got in a lot of trouble. don't do it. >> yeah. but we know. >> they just -- he undermines them and humiliates them. >> mm-hmm. >> they just come back for more. they're the ones writing books about manhood? ha, give me a freaking break. >> donny. >> yeah, i just can't understand. i don't know if they had their lunch money taken growing up, i don't know what it is. i keep thinking about josh hawley prancing across the

capitol during the siege there. these are -- you know, the irony, you bring it up -- ♪ i'm so pretty i'm so pretty ♪ >> you talk about the male under siege in the country. you're not setting an example for what it means to stand up and be a man. >> let's see how much masculinity pays into the vp pick, too. for all the talk about how he has to have a woman to drum up suburban women voters, donald trump is more comfortable having a man on the ticket. i can see it going that way. lemire, a new poll is just dropping, "new york times"/sienna poll dropping this morning, that's talking about the memory gap that americans have around both january 6th and covid. if we're looking at branding issues, this is something the biden administration wants to resurface. we've seen president biden recently talking about former president trump's clorox comments when it came to treating covid.

they're going to pay more of the january 6th tape. how important is it to -- and this "new york times"/sienna poll shows in the swing states, it is still very close. how important is it to the biden campaign to resurface all of those memories of january 6th and president trump's efforts to overturn the election after the last one? >> yeah. one thing the biden campaign's twitter or x account is doing is saying, this year in history four years ago. it displays how badly trump was managing the covid response. it is tricky. i was talking to a senior biden aide about this the other day, they don't want to think about covid. repressed the memories. it was too hard, too difficult. they don't want to revisit it, therefore, they don't want to think about, a, how badly trump botched it, but, b, even the efforts biden in 2021 did when he took office to help america get out of it. they feel it is a success story the administration has to tell, yet, it is falling on deaf ears because americans don't want to talk about it. rev, let's talk about the polls.

we were going over them during the break. they're not great for the president. again, let's be clear, they're all mostly close. we now have moments where, of those battleground states, the only one where president biden is leading is wisconsin by two points. the others, and i'll bring them up here, have, you know, former president trump up two, four, six points. up 12 points in nevada. double digits in georgia. again, it's a snapshot. polls are what they are. we should note, the "times"/si "times"/siier sienna poll is favorable to trump. these are close but trump consistently has leads. >> it is very disturbing to some of us for a man to be on trial for what he is on trial for with a porn star, facing three other trials, to be up or even in a

close polling, but he is. it means the biden campaign needs to really sharpen their message. they need to remind people where we were four years ago. they really do need to compare. use the fact this is one of the rare times in american history we have two people running that we've seen them in office, and compare what trump did for four years with what happened for three years under biden. they have no choice. they're going to have to remind americans where we were and what happened. >> it is going to be very difficult, mika. if you look at the way voters, the way that voters operate, and just historically, you can go back to george h.w. bush. we won the cold war. he won the cold war. reagan/bush were there. the soviet union went out of business in 1991. one year later, they fired george h.w. bush and put bill

clinton in there. it's just like, you know, winston churchill saves western civilization, helps beat hitler, and is fired immediately by the british people. that's where his wife said, dear, it may be a blessing in disguise. winston said, if it is a blessing in disguise, it is one of the most well-disguised blessings i've ever seen. in this case, you have voters, they're not thinking about covid four years ago. they're not thinking about january 6th four years ago. they're looking at the dproes grocery bills, the gas bill. you put that together, and that's where -- it's like, don't tell me what happened there. i want to see what's happening in front of my face. i'm not saying this is good. i'm not saying this is bad. >> right. >> i'm saying, this is how voters make decisions. what's happening today, and what is going to happen over the next four years? >> right. i think there's some competing issues within that, including

abortion. very, very -- point taken. let's bring in danny cevallos, legal analyst, as we preview michael cohen taking the stand today in former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial. danny, what do you expect the prosecution to lay out here? we had lanny davis on earlier. he was assuring anyone who wanted to know about his credibility, that they would have receipts for everything michael cohen had to say. i'm curious what your thoughts are in terms of what he will provide for the prosecution, and then how the defense might handle him. >> after all these years, is there really that much doubt about what michael cohen is going to testify about at this trial? he's told us through podcasts, books, all kinds of different ways. a lot of his testimony we've already heard one way or another. he is going to come in, and he is basically going to say that donald trump ordered me to do

these -- make these payments, and that donald trump had the requisite intent when he repaid me for making these payments to stormy daniels. it is going to be really the only true, direct evidence in this case. there are recordings and other things. all the other evidence so far has been circumstantial evidence. in other words, nobody coming in and saying, trump told me to do this. circumstantial evidence can be just as powerful. everything leading up to michael cohen testifying, the prosecutors have sought to really pre-butt the defense's attempts to paint him as not believable. i think all the shrapnel cohen has been hit with, painting him as an incompetent, wanna be lawyer, mr. fix-it who broke things and had to fix them, on some level, i think that's been intentional. the prosecution wants to lessen the blow when the defense

inettablely ge inevy gets cohen for his credibility. i think he will be up there shorter than we're expecting. throughout the trial, they've been efficient with the witnesses. as a defense attorney, it can throw you off when you have to stand up and start cross-examining before you're ready. on some level, the speed and efficiency of the prosecution so far has been a part of their strategy. even though i think michael cohen, the over/under is three days on the stand, look for the prosecution to try to get in, get out, as fast as they can. really, maybe, this might be a case where the defense's cross is longer than the direct. >> i've been speaking to michael, and michael is ready. a lot has been leading up to this. i remember sitting with him several times, talking about this, talking about having his day in court. the day in court will help him. one thing, you know, everybody is worried about michael cohen,

how is he going to do? i want to talk about his competency. donald trump has been through how many lawyers during this trial and during the previous trials? dozens and dozens. yet, michael was his personal lawyer ten years and held on to that job. he is very good at what he does. he is also good at -- i think he is going to win over the jury. i think there is a likability factor to him. when you get to know him, see him up close. i think michael is ready.hakesp. it'll be exciting to watch. >> thank you, donny deutsch. danny cevallos, do you think this is going at a high-speed pace? >> it's gone relatively quickly. day one, i was starting to think it'd take six months. in the entire day, they only got to jury selection in the last half hour. but i believe the prosecution is trying to be efficient and not leave a whole lot up there for

the defense to cross-examine. i think, really, from michael cohen, the best advice for michael cohen is not to fight with the cross-examiners. simply answer the question asked. get off the stand. the prosecution, i really believe, intended or didn't mind the fact that michael cohen wasn't painted in a favorable light throughout this trial. i think they're going to frame him like, look, you may think he is a flawed human being, but what he is saying is the truth. that'll be the theme in closing once the smoke clears, after cohen is cross-examined. >> danny cevallos, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," a prominent democratic superpac is rolling out a multi-million dollar ad campaign in three critical swing states, featuring real voters sharing their fears about donald trump's record on reproductive rights. we'll have a look at those new ads. first, it is fascinating what modern day science and technology can uncover.

nearly 200 years after beethoven's death, researchers may have discovered what caused the composer to lose his hearing. that new reporting is next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> on behalf of myself, ludvig von beethoven, thank you for attending my symphony. wouldn't be possible without the musicians behind me. i'd like to introduce the band. let's meet the fellas. let's move over to the tuba. i like to hit this guy in the head with a tuba fore. i'll assume you're laughing. i don't need to tell you i can't hear a gosh darn thing. i'm famously deaf.

[coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush,

pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling.

if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can rapidly relieve joint pain, stiffness, and swelling in ra and psa. relieve fatigue for some... and stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. abbvie could help you save.

33 past the hour. a live look at a cloudy day in washington, d.c. welcome back to "morning joe." a u.s. postal worker in texas went the extra mile to deliver some letters dating back to world war ii. the only clues were the soldier's name, a military address, and a recipient address listed simply as jacksonville, arkansas. nbc dallas reporter noelle walker has the story.

>> reporter: our story starts here. a post office in grand prairie, where a regular day at work turned into a mystery. >> i was getting ready for my route. found basically some letters that were dated back to 1942, world war ii. >> reporter: these letters, some typed, some handwritten from a veteran. they didn't have an address, but they landed in the right hands. >> being a veteran myself, world war ii, i'm like, man, this is some history. because, once again, mail boosts morale for all soldiers. i was like, i have to find this family. >> reporter: alvin had two clues. a military return address sent to jacksonville, arkansas. >> my area is grand prairie, texas. >> reporter: this week, his mail route took him a little off course. >> jacksonville, arkansas. it was a little mini trip. >> reporter: to make this special delivery. >> hello.

>> reporter: alvin contacted the nbc station in little rock to help him find the soldier's family and deliver the precious mail. >> for me, it's a connection with my family. >> reporter: jo anne smith was 2 years old when her older brother, marion, went off to war and wrote the letters home. >> reporter: ask jo anne if she remembers me. the letters fell out of a package addressed to her in grand prairie. >> had the name of the recipient, and the address of jacksonville, arkansas. if you had to think about it in 1941, we were just a small community. we got our mail like that, no problem. >> reporter: apparently, in 2024, you can get your mail like that, too. >> apparently so. >> they're like my family now. kind of something like this happens next week, i'll do the same thing again. yeah. >> he made mom cry.

>> aw. >> reporter: noelle walker, nbc 5. 20 years since the release of "super size me," the documentary shedding light on how unhealthy mcdonald's really is. but that did little damage to the fast food chain. it continues to rise in popularity. we'll dig into the industry's stronghold in america. plus, nigeria's minister of foreign affairs is in washington meeting with u.s. officials. he joins us ahead with more on his effort to strengthen bilateral ties. "morning joe" will be right back. wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that.

94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com “obamacare is a disaster, we want to terminate it.” that would mean over a hundred million americans will lose protections for preexisting conditions president biden has protected the affordable care act and lowered health care costs for millions by $800 a year. now, he'll make those savings permanent. health care should be a basic right. folks, he's coming for your health care and we're not going to let it happen. [applause] i'm joe biden and i approve this message. switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full

control of your brand with your own custom store. scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel. and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planet. a lot more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ jardiance! ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's start! ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to see ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections.

a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ ♪ the little pill ♪ ♪ with a big story to tell! ♪

♪ i broke the code ♪ switzerland won the top prize at euro vision's song contest this year. represented by singer nemo, who is the first non-binary winner and switzerland's first euro vision winner since celine dion represented the country back in 1988, despite being canadian. nemo sang "the code," an operatic ode to the singer's

journey toward embracing their non-gender identity. rounding out the top five, croatia, ukraine, france, and israel. it was more than 200 years ago on may 7th, 1824, when ludvig von beethoven introduced his ninth sympathy. that is when it became apparent, how hearing impaired the composer had become. after he was unable to hear the applause of a crowd of nearly 2,000 people. now, scientists may have discovered the cause of beethoven's hearing loss after studying locks of his hair. joining us, medical reporter for "the new york times," gia colada. thank you for your reporting on this. first of all, what was it? how did they learn from his hair? >> what was the cause of his deafness or -- >> yes. >> actually, one question is,

where did they even get hair from beethoven, which is kind of weird. >> yeah. >> turns out, when he was dying, people went in and clipped locks of his hair for remembrance, if you can believe it. 200 years later, there were five locks they could verify through dna analysis, actually came from beethoven. that's where this all began. then the question was, like, what could you learn from this hair? because beethoven, he had written something saying, i really want people to -- doctors to figure out why was i so ill? he had terrible stomach cramps, so sick all the time, couldn't hear anything. he was in despair because he was really deaf. so one of the people who owned some of the locks of hair decided to try to get to the bottom of this. sent it to a lab at the mayo clinic which specializes in doing analyses of lead and other

toxins that might be in the hair. it turned out that beethoven had more lead in his hair than they had ever seen. they get samples from all over the world, from all sorts of people. >> wow. >> he had two locks to analyze. one had 280 micrograms per gram of hair. the other one had -- no, it was 300. i have to get this right. 258 in one and 380 in the other. normal is less than 4. it was astonishing amounts of lead. he also had other metals in there, arsenic, for example. the lead was unbelievable. the question is, where did he get this lead? i mean, why would you have so much lead? they used a lot of lead in those days. they didn't realize it was toxic. one thing they would do is if wine didn't taste good, if it was kind of vinegary, they would put lead in there. lead has a sweet taste.

kids ate lead paint. counteracts the vinegar. >> gina -- >> they also had lead in medicines, everything. sorry. >> take a step back and take us to the incredible scene your article opens with. 1824. >> yeah. >> beethoven is standing up in vienna to conduct the world premiere of the incredibly famous ninth symphony with "the ode to joy." the audience was going crazy behind him. beethoven is standing, carrying on conducting, because he cannot hear. i just think, you know, i have listened to "the ode to joy" so many times, but the idea he was that deaf that he couldn't hear the crowd behind, i mean, it paints even more to the genius of how he did it. >> unbelievable. he was standing there, his back to the crowd, and they get to the second movement which opens with these kettle drums, really

loud. the crowd was wild, cheering. now, we have these drums pounding, and we have the crowd cheering. he had no idea. he was fumbling with the music score and trying to conduct. the soprano, who was going to sing when they got to "the ode to joy," tugged him on his sleeve and turned him around so he could actually see the crowd. that was how he knew. >> wow. >> it was unbelievable. >> incredible. >> his "ode to joy" was his search for some joy when you're sick and you can't hear anything and you're a composer. >> fascinating in every which way. medical reporter for "the new york times," gina kolada, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. >> we really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. still ahead on "morning joe," we're going to go through the major shakeup inside russia's military with vladimir putin removing the country's long-time defense minister. also ahead, we'll bring you the latest out of the middle

east as hundreds of thousands of people are fleeing from southern gaza because of israel's looming military operation in rafah. "morning joe" is coming right back. (♪♪)

the best way to solve a problem is to keep it from happening. (♪♪) at evernorth, we combine medical and pharmacy data with behavioral health data to identify members in need of care. predicting and treating behavioral health issues quickly... while lowering costs for plan sponsors and members. that's wonder made possible. evernorth health services before planning the big trip you were limping thanks to a bad knee. then, you heard about mako robotic-assisted knee replacement. it starts with a ct scan to pinpoint the problem. that becomes a personalized, 3d plan to guide your doctor during surgery. mako can help lead to better outcomes, like less pain and shorter recovery times. the lifetime of a knee implant is limited, and revision surgery may be required. individual results and recovery times vary. risks of surgery include pain, infection, heart attack, stroke, death, and other serious risks.

ask your doctor for important safety information. [camera shutter] to find a doctor who uses mako visit makocan.com what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. . d . where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it.

but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. -remember when i said we need to screen for colon cancer? -was that after i texted the age to screen was now 45? [both] because i said cologuard®! -hey there! -where did he come from? -yup, with me you can screen at home. just talk to your provider. [both] we'll screen with cologuard and do it my way. cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for me, cologuard.

52 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a major shakeup inside the kremlin's security team over the weekend. president putin has removed the

long thyme defense minister, shoigu, reassigning them to the russia security and defense council. shoigu, a defense insider has faced criticism for his military's misstep following the invasion of ukraine. putin wants to replace him with an economist who has no military background and is reportedly a member of the russian president's closest inner circle. meanwhile nigeria's foreign minister is in washington this week, meeting with u.s. officials hoping to strengthen relations between the two countries. the visit serves as a follow-up to the u.s./nigeria binational commission meeting held last month in nigeria and foreign minister joins us now, thank you very much for joining us.

first i'd love to hear your insights on your goals for this trip to the u.s. >> well, just like you said, it's a follow-up to the very successful binational commission meetings that were held in nigeria and of course, to build on the gains we've made so far with regards to our foreign policy agenda, which is just like you mentioned earlier in your program, democracy, demographic, development, nigeria is the largest democracy on the african continent. the largest country in terms of population, 220 million were set to become the third largest country in the world by the year 2050 when we'll have a population of 400 million.

the largest economy. so, we need to democratize the very governing organs of the world, nigeria needs to belong to the g20, there needs to be a reform of the u.n. security council. nigeria needs to be in that security council as a permanent member. we need to develop, we're fighting -- we've been fighting terrorism for the last 15 years. successfully. with home-grown solutions. we have multinational joint task force that has successfully degraded boko haram in the north region. yeah, we're here to partner with mark. >> with your message there of wanting to partner with america, there's certainly a rivalry there on the continent of

africa, we're seeing russia and china both try to move in and gain more influence there both can economically and militarily, how are you seeing that happening from your vantage point? >> yes, of course, we're very weary of africa becoming the ground for confrontations, there's been a change from bipolar world to a multipolar world and this tends to attract confrontations by great powers. our outlook is strategic autoknowmy, we get along with everyone. we also of course have a history of nonalignment, but we are democratic. we have had several successful elections since 1999. and we don't want to see any

private military companies or mercenaries on our continent. nigeria successfully tackled the insecurities and conflicts sierra leone and now we're doing it with the joint task force along with niger, cameroon, with chad. and we feel that's a way forward. we would rather have solutions that are supported by countries like america that have been great partners to nigeria and many others on the african continent. >> nigeria's minister of foreign affairs, yusuf tuggar for coming on the show this morning. thank you very much. and still ahead, moments

ago, star witness michael cohen left his new york city apartment and is making his way to the manhattan courthouse where he's set to give pivotal testimony in donald trump's criminal hush money trial that could make or break the case, our team of experts are standing by with what to expect today. stay with us. you're watching "morning joe." sd tardive dyskinesia, or td. so her doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily td treatment for adults. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪ austedo xr significantly reduced kate's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, kate can stay on her mental health meds— (kate) oh, hi buddy! (avo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, or have suicidal thoughts.

don't take if you have liver problems, are taking reserpine, tetrabenazine, or valbenazine. austedo xr may cause irregular or fast heartbeat, or abnormal movements. seek help for fever, stiff muscles, problems thinking, or sweating. common side effects include inflammation of the nose and throat, insomnia and sleepiness. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪ ask your doctor for austedo xr. ♪ austedo xr ♪

right now you can get a free footlong at subway. just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app.

silence of the lambs, has

anyone ever seen the silence of lambs. han ball leker the is a wonderful man. remember the last scene, excuse me i'm about to have a friend for dinner as this poor doctor walked by, i'm about to have a friend for dinner but hanball lecter. >> donald trump over the weekend in new jersey. praising a fictional serial killer. >> this is exactly, mika, this is why the biden campaign desperately wants to see more bizarre moments like this during trump's rallies, like i promise you, they're more upset, donald trump is on trial right now than donald trump, because they know when he goes out on the road, the guy is not there.

he's celebrating a fictional character there who like, one of the most grotesque horrifying people in movie history, so yeah, by the way, if you're going to have a rally like that, why are you cheering that on. >> this is why i disagree with the concern that he's in court rather than on the campaign trail. when he's on the campaign trail it's like a cult, they'll agree with everything. less is more in my opinion. seeing him in court is having seen him being held accountable. he'll be back in lower manhattan, face to face with his former fixer and attorney who's expected to take the stand in the criminal hush money trial. we'll get legal analysis ahead

of michael cohen's testimony. full analysis and play by play all day on msnbc and we'll show you the protests during college commencement ceremonies across the country, including the students who walked out during jerry seinfeld's speech at duke. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, may 13th. with us we have the host of way too early, jonathan lemire. kat 2, y kay. richard haase. and ed lews. >> a wonderful mother's day weekend. how did yours go? >> my girls came to me. they gave me an ice cream machine. we made ice cream for four nights straight. every different flavor you could

imagine. that's all we did and it was absolutely precious. by the way, the post about your mom, wow. >> you know, it's so interesting. i, you know, everybody loves to talk about their mothers and the most loving. as you know mary jo love joey, she loved me so much and some people would say like that i was the apple of her eye after she got over having me. she wasn't really pleased to have a third child, but she -- she eventually did. she was there every step of the way. the biggest supporter. but you know, another side of my mom that people -- i know this sounds weird -- i saw ed sheeran

on the howard stern show last year, and it explains the success of my mom and being a mom. here's howard stern talking to ed sheeran. >> you learn nothing from success. nothing. you learn everything from the failures. this is the thing that annoys me the state of the world. no one talks about failure anymore. like failure is shame. let's bury that. no one goes, what did we learn from this? there's nothing in success, success happens from failing hundreds of times. >> so, you know, the reason it reminds me of my mom, one of her best moments. i played baseball and, you know, all-star, bases loaded in a key game and i struck out. threw my bat down, walked to the car, i was so angry, i got in

the backseat and i said, i'm just going to quit. my mom, you know, drives off and she quietly says, well, if you can't do anything better than that, joey, you'd be doing yourself and the family be a great service by never playing baseball again. so i sit back and say, that's not what a mom's supposed to say. it made me go out and practice harder. it was unconditional love. she was tough. she was a tough mother and she never, like no time for like sympathy for, you know, if we messed up she let us know and that, that combination of love and toughness i think makes all the difference and by the way, we forgot to ask katty kay about her mother's day. >> it was very nice. i had one of my kids with me,

remarkably all of my children even remembered. so i did hear from all of them. i had a mother who's a bit like yours, not very sentimental, had her own life and her own career, she was absolutely there and loved us. but she kind of expected us to get on with it. maybe parenting has changed in the last 40, 50 years, in our family it was definitely not a trophy for everybody even if you came in last. >> no. no. no. >> not a winner all the time. >> and when we lost my mom let us know. like lost a basketball game, i remember being in the backseat, and i was scoring 30, 35 points a game, we still lost and my mother turns to my dad in the front seat so her three children

can hear, you know, it would have been so great if god had given us one natural athlete. who says that? what happens, we get home, i get the basketball out and i'm shooting for the next two hours. this is parenting. i mean, it's not just hugging people and being, you know, mika, that term snowplow parents, we want to do everything for our kids, we don't want our kids to feel any discomfort. no. >> joe, your beautiful post about your mom got alex in trouble with his mom. i like the post. >> alex, you want to tell us about that, alex and say something about your mom? >> i get a text from my mom. >> here's your moment. >> she sent me joe's instagram

post, how come you don't post these things about me? i said joe's mom has passed. but i appreciate my mom. i never post online but maybe the first post will be about her. >> alex. >> when you want to send your best. okay, we'll get the news now. united nations says more than 300,000 people have now fled the southern gaza city of rafah, the announcement came just hours after the israeli government issued a new evacuation order raising fears troops may soon invade the area. last monday, the idf seized control of the gaza side of the rafah border crossing, since

then there's been intense fight in the area. "the new york times" reports the top leader of hamas is now hiding in rafah the leader most likely never left the tunnel network under khan younis. also using a group of israeli hostages as human shields. the officials tell the times israeli intelligence agencies agree with this american assessment. secretary of state blinken spoke about america's concerns over israel's operation in rafah during an interview with nbc's "meet the press" yesterday. pressed on president biden's threat to withhold weapons. take a listen. >> what we've seen over the last few months is a deep concern on our part about the possibility of a major military operation in rafah, given the damage it would do to civilians, more than 1.4

million gazans in rafah, most have move to gaza. to get them out of harm's way, the penalty has been clear for some time that we could not and would not support a major military operation in rafah. >> you haven't seen a credible plan yet how they would go into rafah and mitigate civilian casualties. fair to say that president biden and prime minister netanyahu aren't seeing eye to eye right now? >> two things, one is that as the president said and as we have said in many conversations, there has to be a credible plan for civilians. >> have you seen a credible plan? >> we have not. >> i want to drill on president biden's threat to withhold weapons, what exactly is his red line, mr. secretary, what would trigger him to say i'm now withholding weapons? >> look, we don't talk about red

lines when it comes to israel -- >> president biden did talk about red line, mr. secretary, respectfully. >> what would trigger him to make that decision? >> first, we have been holding back and we're in active conversations with israel about the provision of heavy or high payload weapons, large bombs, because of the concern we have about the effect these weapons can have when they're used in a dense urban environment like rafah. second what the president said that if israel goes in with a major military operation in rafah, in that case there are certain systems that we will not provide israel that would aid that effort because it's something that we do not want to be a part of given the damage that it would do to civilians and again not to achieve a durable lasting effective

result. >> richard, you just returned from a trip to the middle east where you had a chance to speak to leaders in off the record conversations, what's your great takeaway on your visit, your talks and where the united states and israel are right now in what seems to be the final stage of this war? >> good morning, joe. two big takeaways. one, when you go through the arab world it's not hard not to be struck by how they're not ready to get close -- they're worried about iran, hezbollah, hamas, the houthis, the muslim brotherhootd and other groups and quite honestly they've lost confidence in the united states over the last few administrations. they want to get close to israel. they need enough from israel on the palestinian issue they can manage this getting close domestically.

which brings me to israel, my meetings there, what you're seeing here is what's happening totally, the israelis have prioritize getting back the hostages, that to me is plain as day, they're going into rafah, the only thing we don't know is the dimensions of it. they're angry at the united states. they're surprised that the united states took the step that president biden did the other day, you know i simply don't see any plan out of israel for what happens after rafah. they'll go in and kill some more hamas fighters. unfortunately some more civilians will get killed. but what then? there's no answer to that. what we're probably looking is some kind of prolonged israeli occupation in gaza, the politics won't allow the israeli

government or this prime minister won't move in the direction of offering something up and working with the palestinians. so i think we'll have rafah and in a month some fundamental questions out there for seven, eight months are going to be out there as plan as day. >> richard underlined something that i have been hearing from leaders out of the middle east for some time and that is we're ready -- this is going back months -- we're ready to help, we want to go in and help the israelis. we want to help with gaza. we can talk about a peacekeeping force. we can rebuild gaza. they want hamas out of there. they said they'd do it if the united states was there standing shoulder to shoulder with them and providing them support. and again, you just -- we could just talk generally and not tell

people what's actually going on here, but it's what's been going on for the past 10, 15 years, netanyahu doesn't want that, because he doesn't want a two-state solution. netanyahu wants to resettle israelis in gaza or gaza completely under the control of israel. he doesn't want peace there. he doesn't want gaza rebuilt. he doesn't want a strong independent gaza, with arab nations acting as peacekeepers protecting that. >> that's the key problem here. the normalization, the biden administration's goal. to recognize israel finally after all these decades but the price of that normalization will be precisely what would netanyahu be dragged kicking and

screaming to do namely creating a viable palestinian authority to replace hamas, building up a nonviolent palestinian voice, that could help govern a post-war gaza as well as the west bank which is governing. unfortunately netanyahu's coalition the right of his coalition, tweeted last week, biden loves hamas when biden announced the pause of those weapons shipments, that coalition would consider any viable palestinian dialogue to be a betrayal of their values, they would then pull the plug on the coalition, there would be an election, netanyahu would not pass go and go straight to jail. he has a conflict of interest, he doesn't want this war to end and he doesn't want to annihilate the right-wing coalition members who are keeping in power and out of the

courtroom. >> ed luce and richard haass, thank you both very much for coming on show on this monday morning. coming up in one minute, donald trump's former fixer is set to take the stand today in the ex-president's criminal hush money trial. michael cohen's longtime adviser joins us today before today's highly anticipated testimony. we need to talk about starbucks, a piece that says the company's menu has gotten out of control. we'll explain that. we're back in 60 seconds. 60 secs why choose a sleep number smart bed? can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer.

sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at once? i like to do things myself. i can't trust anything else to do the job right. kayak... aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. search one and done. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business.

search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now. stormy daniels seen here as drawn by the creator of cathy, was accused by trump's lawyers of lying about their affair for profit. it's also been implied that stormy daniels got into bed with trump and let him do whatever he wanted just to advance her career, you know, like every republican. >> the donald trump hush money criminal trial kicks off its fifth week this morning with one of the most anticipated witnesses of the entire trial, expected to take the stand today, michael cohen. the former attorney and fixer

for trump is set to testify about his role in negotiating the hush money payment to adult film actress stormy daniels on trump's behalf during the 2016 presidential campaign during to keep her quiet about an alleged sexual encounter with trump. cohen contends the reimbursements were falsified at trump's direction which is central to the prosecution's case. the defense will hammer away at cohen's credibility. he was sentenced to three years in prison, but even before taking the stand, cohen was a key point of discussion on friday when judge merchan told prosecutors to ask cohen to stop commenting publicly about the former president or the hush money trial itself. trump's lawyers argued it was

not fair for their client to be under a gag order and not talk about cohen while cohen was free to talk about trump. they have two witnesses left to call and maybe may be able to rest their case by the end of this week. the defense may call its own witnesses. let's bring in former litigator lisa rubin. also with us, the president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. lisa, i'll start with you. what you're looking for today? >> mika, before the trial started i said i expected michael cohen to be the narrator or the tour guide here, the one person other than allen weisselberg who won't be testifying who had a view of the entire narrative here from start to finish from that august 2015

meeting where david pecker, michael cohen and donald trump devised the conspiracy how they were going to use american media and specifically the national enquirer to ensure that donald trump had his best chance at election all the way through the end of 2017 when the repayment scheme was finished. but think about cohen today, the sum-up guy and specifically the guy who's going to fill the gaps that can't be filled by other witnesses. several episodes here that are uniquely within michael cohen's knowledge and there's no substitute, specifically conversations that we had with trump in which trump may have had directed him specifically to ensure that the payments to karen mcdougal and stormy daniels were paid. and any conversations that would tie donald trump directly to

that repayment scheme. we've seen evidence to date that those payments were in fact disguised as payments for legal services that were never rendered pursuant to a retainer agreement. what we haven't seen so far is any direct evidence that donald trump himself directed that. at best we've seen a piece of paper showing that allen weisselberg, his trusted deputy and former cfo, sort of sketched out this repayment scheme was going to work and donald trump himself signed nine checks, paperwork for legal services and retainer by each month, count on michael cohen today to start filling those gaps in the already-substantial evidentiary record. >> coming up -- >> feel at home in rikers,

favorite red and white strips. our next segment isn't about donald trump, but rather ronald mcdonald, how the fast food industry is bigger than ever despite a culture war against it. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults

newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer.

voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com.

all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. this is our future, ma. godaddy airo. creates a logo, website, even social posts... in minutes! -how? -a.i. (impressed) ay i like it! who wants to come see the future?! get your business online in minutes with godaddy airo hi, i'm david, and i lost 92 pounds on golo. get your business my life partner connie and i were in really rough shape regarding our health. and our doctors told us that we needed to lose weight. i saw a golo commercial and i thought, "we really need to try this." as the weeks went by, the weight came off. we learned to make healthy choices and be supportive of each other. together, we've lost 170 pounds. golo worked for us. since losing weight on golo, i'm feeling grateful and hopeful about the future. (energizing music)

if you've been at this amazing place for four years and still have no idea what you like, what you're interested in what you want to do in life, you're the luckiest ones here, those of you that think you know what you want to do are very likely wrong and perhaps even

overestimated your ability to do it. you have convinced yourself that you know you who are. you don't know either. the less secure and confident you feel in the direction, the more surprises and excitement you'll have in store. that's good. >> comedian jerry seinfeld gave the commencement address at duke university yesterday amid the climate of campus unrest across the country. nbc news correspondent elwyn lopez reports. >> reporter: comedian jerry seinfeld taking the stage at duke university where he was scheduled to deliver the commencement address and receive an honorary degree. soon after he was introduced students walked out, some waving palestinian flags, chants erupted. seinfeld later delivering his speech. again, a lot of you are thinking

i can't believe they invited this guy, too late. i say, use your privilege. i grew up a jewish boy from new york, that's a privilege if you want to be a comedian. >> reporter: the sitcom creator taking to instagram after the hamas attack on israel october 7th. visiting tel aviv. the university saying in part, we respect the right of everyone at duke to express their views peacefully. it's the latest in a series of weekend eruptions at graduations across the country. at uc, berkeley, the student body president's speech was interrupted with protests. >> reporter: a handful of students turned their backs on the chancellor at the university of wisconsin. at university of texas, dozen

protested on campus after the ceremony ended. coming to a boiling point just as universities and colleges break for the summer. >> you know, mika -- i don't want people to conflate different things, violent protests on college campuses with peaceful walkouts. peaceful walkout at duke. find it hard to believe that a commencement address by a student was interrupted. at berkeley. it happened. she smiled and took it in stride. you know, obviously it's americans' rights, which is what makes our country so great, get up and walk out, you know, it's the heckling, the hecklers, the shouting speakers down, the

banning, the far left wanting to ban people like christine le gard, people like condi rice, and you know, let them speak, and if you have a problem and you want to show your disagreement get up and peacefully walk out. >> yeah, no, i completely agree and it appears that happened there in that case. i thought jerry seinfeld's advice was amazing. the white house is running out of patience with israel's prime minister. that's ahead on "morning joe." o"

while i am a paid actor, and this is not a real company, there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management because this is how we work now.

welcome back.

in this week's sunday sit-down, jimmy fallon takes our own willie geist behind the scenes of the tonight show to celebrate ten years with the most prized job in late-night television. fallon looks back on his favorite moments and his ideas for another ten years. >> so this is my dressing room. you go into the backstage. the wall opens. here we are. we're on stage. >> reporter: jimmy fallon has spent a good part of the past decade on this stage and behind this desk, in studio 6b. >> want to sit behind? >> i can't sit. >> people want to see this. >> are you sure? >> yes. >> you're higher, aren't you. >> the old i'm getting i'm getting shorter and shorter. >> reporter: back in tonight show offices, fallon's real desk is surrounded by memories of a

30 rock tenure that began with saturday night live and ultimately landed him the most prized job in late-night television. >> congratulations on ten years. can you believe it? >> i can't really believe it. we're editing the best of special that's airing this tuesday. i forget half of the things i've done. carol burnett slapped me? when that's the scene. >> reporter: the 49-year-old fallon is the sixth person to host the tonight show. carrying on its 70-year legacy as a must-stop destination for celebrity guests. but he also has made it his own, thanks to charming interviews, absurd games and original sketches that go viral online. ♪ i got my tight pace, i got my

tight pants on ♪ >> i'll have a dream and i'll wake up in the middle of the night, with my phone, i'll be talking about my tight pants. >> do you have favorites of these bits? >> we played inner sandman with metallica. keith richards playing the guitar. >> you're living out a lot of your boyhood dreams, you playing in is sand box with them. >> yeah, all in name of comedy. ♪ pointed at you ♪ >> reporter: lorne michaels hired fallon doing stand-up and

improv in los angeles to join the cast of saturday night live. fallon quickly became a fan favorite. he was approached again by michaels to take over for conan o'brien as host for late night. >> yeah, i have to ask my wife. i'm married now. honey, do you think i should do this? she's like, you have to. even if it doesn't work, you're on the list, david letterman, conan o'brien and you. you have to do this. >> reporter: music is central to fallon's comedy, he needed a good house band, he found one in the roots, the philadelphia-born hip-hop group. >> i asked them and never heard anything back. went to concert. after the show i was waiting around and hanging out, i was like, hi, guys, just talked to

them. quest went into his trailer and when he came out i was in cheerleader pyramid with the roots, we were doing the triangle and questlove was like, we're going to be stuck with this guy. so, yeah, we've been family now for 15 years. ♪♪ >> this is four-leaf clover, used to be a star, i need all the luck i can get, i stand over that every night and the roots are right there. welcome i'm jimmy fallon and i'll be your host, for now. >> do you stop and think at this moment right now, ten years, like that first show, what it felt like to walk out on that stage for the first time? >> it was emotional, because everyone i knew in my life were there. my mom and my dad. my dad heckled me. i go, why would you heckle your

son. why would you yell at me. i was like thanks dad. every executive was there. do we bring leno back? >> favorite greeting? >> hi! >> here i am 15 years later, i'm friends with all these people, i've seen their biggest movies, their biggest flops, i've seen their wives, their bad boyfriends. >> reporter: coincided with an age of heated politics. over the years he's slipped in the ratings behind the late show with stephen colbert and jimmy kimmel live which more take a confrontational approach. >> they're great at it. >> reporter: but fallon connects with his audience online and on social media. tonight show clips rack up hundreds of millions of views,

beating the late-night competition handily. >> we're here to entertain you guys and make you laugh. i'll make you laugh. that's my job. >> what have you learned over the last decade about being the leader and the face of the show and in your case the face of the nbc? >> that's not why they hired me. you're hired as an interstainer not the boss. i've gotten better at that stuff. i surround myself with really good people. >> reporter: with 50th birthday coming in september and a decade on the shont owe under his belt, jimmy fallon is dreaming about the next ten years. >> i was looking at who we have coming up on the show.

will, maybe two guys who love to hear jorts for the summer. i'm in my jort shorts. this came to me in a dream. >> it feels like you have very, very strange dreams. i'm not your therapist. >> will you be my therapist? >> i'm afraid i can't help you. >> come on, man, i need help. i need another ten years. >> that was willie's sunday sit-down with jimmy fallon. coming up, we're live outside the courthouse in new york city where donald trump will come to face to face with his former fixer michael cohen. a big day in former president's criminal case. a full preview straight ahead on "morning joe." i don't ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break.

so i'm committed to golo for life.

don't go far, though, we might need second and okay, no

problem. looks like you had a little spill there. >> just some drippage. i'm in labor. >> in real life it can be trickled. >> the water will keep coming. don't worry about cleaning it up. >> i'll need to tell my boss that. it's fluids. you knows -- >> why do you hate women. >> i need more chocolate mousse. >> okay, thank you, bye. >> that was the scene from the upcoming film titled babies, stars comedians, it follows two best friends as they traverse the challenging and at times graphic of pregnancy and balancing friendships with family. joining us now is the director of the film "babes." i love that scene. i remember being in labor with

friends. what made you direct the movie, what made you want to do this project? >> well, i love the script and they came to me and it had the elements of what i loved to do. as a director. it's graphic, because it's just pregnancy. it's women and it's not raunchy or graphic, it's just real life. it's hilarious and if we were able to talk more about the way things happened to us as women as we go through the different stages of life and normalize it's pretty great. but you got to laugh at it because it's too funny. >> the story's basically of two friends who get pregnant and have babies together and their relationship with each other and with their pregnancies and with

having babies, one bit in movie eden goes into the hospital and she has her child and she's like, this is the only thing in the world that people are talking about. i remember having my child and giving me this tiny baby, i can't believe i'm allowed to go home from the hospital without a massive training program. >> it's crazy. >> it's funny but the miraculousness that happens every single day. >> when she says i can't believe people aren't always talking about it. it's happened to people from the dawn of time but when it happens to you just kind of can't believe that you're in this cycle. i have three daughters, when i had my first daughter it was like i was attacked. i was like, if i was in a knife fight in an alley that would have kept me in the hospital in two weeks, since i had a baby

they released me in 24 hours, put a human being in my arms and they were like, go, we hope you know how to use the car seat. wait, you're not coming home with me? to help me? >> congrats on the film. it's irreverent but truth-telling, tell us a few other topics that it tackles. >> yeah, well, it's, you know, i feel like it's not a gauze on motherhood, we don't talk about it we all come from that. and it's hopefully removing the shame. the friendship part is, is the meat of the whole movie. just the fact that these two came up together and you go through different phases of your life from when you're a kid and when these big events life

events happen, they kind of pull you away from each other and you got to find space. like, when you have a baby and another baby and your friend doesn't have any they're kind of over here, hello, i've been there since the beginning. >> certainly, very, very true. in this case, hilarious. the new movie "babes" in theaters this friday >> thank you for having me. coming up here on "morning joe," donald trump's criminal hush-money trial resumes in just moments. a live report from outside the manhattan courthouse that's next on "morning joe." softness. qual. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order.

(reporters) over here. kev! kev! one purchased equals one donated. (reporter 1) any response to the trade rumors, we keep hearing about? (kev) we talkin' about moving? not the trade, not the trade, we talking about movin'. no thank you. (reporter 2) you could use opendoor. sell your house directly to them, it's easy. (kev) ... i guess we're movin'.

♪ that colonoscopy for getting screened ♪ ♪ is why i'm delaying ♪ ♪ i heard i had a choice ♪ ♪ i know the name, that's what i'm saying ♪ -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want. -you the man! -actually, he's a box. cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. ♪ i did it my way ♪ ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ jardiance! ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's start! ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to see ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis

that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ ♪ the little pill ♪ ♪ with a big story to tell! ♪ if you've ever grilled, you know you can count on propane to make everything great. but did you know propane also powers school buses that produce lower emissions that lead to higher test scores? or that propane can cut your energy costs at home? it powers big jobs and small ones too.

from hospitals to hospitality, people rely on propane-an energy source that's affordable, plentiful, and environmentally friendly for everyone. get the facts at propane.com/now. and they're all coming? and environmentally fthose who are stille. with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. come here from new york, where i'm being forced to endure a biden show trial, all done by

biden. it's all right. donald trump's struggling there with his speech a little bit also lying about biden and the trial. this is at his rally over the weekend in new jersey. that moment came after he praised the fictional serial killer hannibal lecter calling the man a likable. probably joking there. joining the conversation peter baker. we're just moments away from michael cohen taking the stand in the donald trump hush money criminal trial in new york city the former trump attorney and fixer could potentially be the prosecution's most important witness in the case as the trial enters its final stretch. nbc news senior legal

correspondent laura jarrett has the latest. >> reporter: he once said he would take a bullet for the former president, but this morning, michael cohen takes the stand as a key witness for the state in donald trump's criminal trial. the drammic face-off between mr. trump and his former fixer a pivotal moment as prosecutors wind down their case. the jury has seen evidence it was cohen who bought the silence of stormy dan gels just days before the 2016 election. >> mr. trump directed me to use my own personal funds. to avoid any money being traced back to him. that could negatively impact his campaign. >> reporter: jurors have seen the invoices and checks documenting how mr. trump paid mr. cohen back calling his repayments "legal expenses." a disguise according to prosecutors to cover up the hush money scheme that mr. trump deny

and you'll see everything that michael cohen testifies to after spending years with these prosecutors behind closed doors, everything will be corroborated by text messages, by documents, even by witnesses loyal to president trump. that's why i believe this jury despite the attacks and personal attacks on michael -- >> reporter: cohen's baggage is well documented. prior convictions for campaign finance violations and lying to congress one part that will be a grueling cross-examination as the defense team argues he's a scorn man who makes a living tearing down his old boss. even the judge directing prosecutors friday to warn cohen to stop talking about mr. trump. moving from the trial to the trail over the weekend -- >> i've come here from new york -- >> reporter: drawing huge crowds

in neighboring new jersey which overwhelming went to biden in 2020. >> i've been indicted more than al capone. >> reporter: mr. trump also pivoting to his campaign topics including immigration, invoking another famous criminal -- >> silence of lambs. the late great hannibal lecter, a wonderful man often times would have a friend for dinner. >> i guess that's a joke. laura jarrett with that report. let's bring in vaughn hillyard. vaughn, what are your sources telling you about what we can expect today when michael cohen takes the stand? >> reporter: little information on hannibal lecter and his relevance to this case.

michael cohen will be taking the stand. for donald trump this has been a long time coming. his one-time righthand michael cohen has been led to the point after testifying under oath and providing cooperative testimony to not only federal prosecutors but state prosecutors, much of that testimony allowing the district attorney to even bring this case to the grand jury last year that led to this indictment. michael cohen, this is the moment in which sitting mere feet away from donald trump is going to testify. these two men began working together back in 2007, of course michael cohen was part of stormy daniels effort back in 2016, of course there's the august 2015 trump tower meeting and 2016 the excuse of $130,000 from the home equity line of credit from

michael cohen personally and then in 2017 the big meeting, the white house meeting that we expect to hear michael cohen testify about in which he said they worked out the arrangement to have him formally reimbursed. for the prosecution they're relying on michael cohen finding it to be a credible witness for this jury as they look at three days of testimony and cross-examination of michael cohen from donald trump's own defense team. >> so, peter baker, this has been a long time coming, what do we expect between these two men who are going to be, you know, in the same courtroom, two guys who have been tearing each other to shreds on social media over the past several years. >> something kind of

shakespearean about this. you have a confrontation, they used to spend a lot of time together. cohen would do anything trump asked. now of course this sort of epic feud that has turned into a court case, he's the most critical witness here obviously, stormy daniels was more dramatic way. the case is about business documents and were they falsified in order to cover up a crime? one witness who puts that all together and of course his own credibility is at issue given his past convictions. i'd love to be in court to see the two of them look at each other and see what kind of body language there is. >> all right, nbc's vaughn hillyard, thank you very much. we'll be checking back with you once again when the trial

resumes this morning, so thanks for being there. we'll turn to politics now, president biden spent part of his weekend on the west coast raising millions of dollars for his re-election bid. at a private fund-raiser in washington state on saturday, biden ramped up his attacks on donald trump telling donos quote, it's clear that, when he lost in 2020, something snapped in him. he's not only obsessed with losing in 2020, he's clearly unhinged. just listen to what he's telling people. the biden campaign will host a major star-studded fund-raiser in los angeles next month. the campaign is looking to boost fund-raising efforts at a time when donald trump and the republican national committee attempt to close the contributions gap. a-list guests expected to attend the event include former president barack obama, george clooney, julia roberts and

they're also be featured in a campaign social media contest and have their names on contribution e-mails. president biden is also expected to hold a fund-raiser with bill and hillary clinton early this summer a source familiar with the plans tells nbc news. so, joe, it appears the biden campaign from everything we've been hearing from our sources is really digging deep in important states and trying to leave no stone unturned. >> right, and jonathan, if you look at the ground game that the biden team is building up it makes all the difference in the world and most campaigns, donald trump is a unicorn, perhaps donald trump won't play by the rules again this year. but if you look at the ground game, if you look at the money game, the biden team really is ramping it up and they've got a

huge advantage in both of those areas, which, by the way, is more than not nothing, that's the blocking and the tackling of american politics. >> yeah, and that blocking and tackling so often wins elections. particularly ones that will be close. yes, president trump and his re-election team significant advantages here on fund-raising. donald trump's got into that lead. more successful in recent weeks raising money. but biden and democrats still have a sizable edge there and an overwhelming advantage in terms of campaign infrastructure. the rnc can't compete right now with what the democrats are doing with offices all over these battleground states, they're registering voters, in an election that's going to come down to that, voter turnout. democrats feel good at it. a pretty narrow path to 270. peter baker, let's talk about the split screen, trump of

course is in a manhattan courtroom, president biden and his team have been pretty disciplined by not talking about it. but how can the biden team even in subtle ways try to amplify this split screen, where the president is traveling from battleground state to battleground state, meanwhile his rival stuck in a courtroom. >> yeah, i think he wants that split screen to speak for itself, they want there to be an image of the president talking about policy, talking about supporters and they want -- that plays automatically against the image of donald trump in a courtroom, they don't have to say it, because it's out there. on the other hand the president kind of edging around it. not talking about the criminal aspects about it.

he doesn't want to play into that theory or conspiracy theory that trump likes to spread. he's making fun of them more and more. talking about him to sleepy don. you see him willing to go more directly at trump in the last few weeks, calling him unhinged at that fund-raiser. a sign the need to engage. another thing to talk about your opponent, in the end of the day it's going to be a choice. people not voting for biden right now who did vote for him in 2020 and his task is to remind them of why they voted for him and not donald trump. our poll shows the president is behind five out of six battle ground states as he was after

the momentum after the state of the union. the campaigning he's been doing, haven't cut into that trump lead. i think you're going to see them go more directly at trump in the weeks and months to come. >> yeah, by the way, just for the record, i love the times, i read the times every day, and of course especially because peter baker wris for the times, the new york times/siena poll has slanted toward donald trump. what's funny, the times will release their polls, liberals will run around with their hair on fire for about a month, right, and then three days later, polls will come out that show a deadlock race. if anyone wants to bet me i

can't bet, i don't bet, if i were a bettor, if someone wanted to give me 11 or 12 points and biden in nevada, come on, come on. that race is always close, democrats always win the close races except for the governor. it's a double-digit lead for donald trump, you're seriously, wake up. they're all tied. pennsylvania, biden ahead. wisconsin, biden ahead. go down the list. but i'd tell you these polls, it's very funny. the times and sie in, a polls which always slant for donald trump, they put them out and the political and media class have their hair on fire for weeks. >> in a way that brings us to our next guest. by the way, are you eating chuck's gra nola while you're

doing the show? don't eat while you're doing the show. >> i'm not. >> kind of think you are. the political group american bridge century is launching a new ad campaign today across key battleground states slamming former president trump's actions on reproductive healthcare, the first of the ads hits on the realities of the post-roe america. with one focusing on a true story of a woman who had an abortion after finding out her baby would not survive. >> i got the call from my doctor. and he said my baby wouldn't survive. so, my husband and i made the decision to have an abortion. that's not a decision for any politician including donald trump. women need access and should have access to all of their

options. donald trump wants to criminalize women for making a healthcare decision. even if it saves a woman's life, that's horrifying. if trump was re-elected it would be devastating for women's healthcare. >> yeah, it already is, actually, given overturning of roe. joining us now is co-founder of american bridge 20th century. some of these ads and part of this push would be making sure that donald trump who has taken credit over and over and over again for overturning roe that that message stays in the realm of truth, because he tends to equivocate when necessary. >> he does. i think our job in the next 176 days is to remind voters in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin, the states that we

think are the path of less resistance to 270 the chaos under donald trump. he made good on his ban on abortion, he made good on his threat to overturn roe v. wade. >> bradley, the amnesia some people feel around covid and january the 6th, that doesn't seem to be resonating and more focused on the cost of groceries and mika brought up abortion as an issue. in the context of that, do you feel like what you'll be doing between now and november is stripping away some of the amnesia reminding people what life was like under donald trump, use a lot of ads that run a lot of images of january the 6th, what's the strategy there? >> the memory gap you mentioned earlier is real.

i understand why voters would want to forget the chaos and disorder of a trump administration. powerful folks like anna in battleground states they're talking about three issues that democrats have won a lot of elections, abortion, democracy and freedom. if you wake up you're donald trump, it's bad news because those three issues you're the poster boy for the wrong side of those. i think for us that's what we want to be doing to remind people of what this is what he did. >> he keeps bragging about it. it's crazy. what's so effective, i saw a couple of the ads, the women very effective, but when you have men from wisconsin, older men from wisconsin and these swing states talking about the

impact on their wife or their daughter or their families, man, that is powerful. that's powerful for men swing voters in those three states. >> yeah, i think these people are really heroes. we started last june to find these folks. they're unscripted. they're willing to speak out and when you talk to them about why they want to speak out they understand that people are tired, they want to forget the chaos of trump, but they're fearful of what would be forward and so thank god they're out speaking their mind and i think for abortion it's one piece. for democracy they realize that trump is like gasoline on a fire and they don't want that in their local community. on freedom, what will republicans take away next? they won't accept the election results, why won't take away

more of our rights. >> in 2023 and 2022 elections it's going on to be a massive issue. >> of course, most relevant in states where you have statewide referendum, we've seen that time and time again, when the issue is presented in kansas for instance, they've sided on the side of enshrining abortion rights in their state constitution, where it helps specific candidates, a lot of places where you roll up a lot of abortion rights supporters are places that are already blue districts, can convert voters who otherwise who might not vote democrats vote for democratic candidates or issues competing with abortion. the big test is this fall especially with president biden and donald trump. they've decided to wage the battle on that issue because it's a very salient one for a

lot of americans. >> chief white house correspondent from the "the new york times," peter baker, thank you very much. the co-founder of american bridge, thank you for coming on. all right, coming up, we'll get a live report from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan where donald trump's criminal trial is set to resume in a few minutes. right now, donald trump is kind of doing the greatest hits, the same thing he says every day, a witch hunt, biden did this, et cetera, et cetera, michael cohen is expected to take the stand. it should be a dramatic day. plus -- >> could i get the double quarter pounder with cheese meal. >> regular or supersize. >> supersize. look at that. look at that coke.

barely fits in there. >> if you can believe it's been 20 years since the hit documentary supersize me shed light on the ill effects of an all mcdonald's diet, yet the golden arches and the entire industry, today, is bigger than ever. we'll explore that next, right here on "morning joe." ning joe." if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system

to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer.

hi, i'm janice, ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. and i lost 172 pounds on golo. when i was a teenager i had some severe trauma in my life and i turned to food for comfort. a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am the inside. once i saw golo was working, i felt this rush, i just had to keep going. a lot of people think no pain no gain, but with golo it is so easy. when i look in the mirror, i don't even recognize myself. golo really works. what causes a curve down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you.

visit makeapdplan.com today.

okay, live look outside the courthouse, donald trump's done with his little talk. he's inside now. last week we saw senator rick scott who came in to support donald trump. he of course needs voters in florida. today, sitting with donald

trump, two more senators, tommy tuberville, the guy who held up military promotions for months over the issue of abortion and j.d. vance who used to hate donald trump and now he's sitting with him for his hush money trial in new york city. also in his rally over the weekend, donald trump went after chris christie and his weight. calling him "fat." interesting. >> wait, wait. hold on, wait. >> he trump called chris christie fat. >> so he did with somebody else recently and i'm like -- >> i know. it's like the pot calling the kettle black. it's weird. it just seemed -- >> no mirrors in mar-a-lago, i guess. >> no, and/or wildwood. maybe they have the crazy ones.

>> that would be like me getting upset for talking too much. >> or eating granola. >> but i was trying to make a segue to our next guest. >> a great segue. i'll turn off the segue bell now. >> oh, my god. joining us now senior editor of "the new york times." fast food for ever. how mchaters lost the culture war. how fast food companies have endured 20 years after the documentary supersize me nearly brought down the famed golden arches and how the company and the entire industry has endured with their most powerful tool and that would be -- marketing. brian, incredible piece. explain to us the endurance of

mcdonald's, they changed their menu, and i'm wondering about how economics plays a role in this as well. >> yeah, sure. thanks for having me. it's interesting, supersize me was a massive media moment, but it didn't seem to have much effect on mcdonald's or the industry really at all, pretty momentary. they introduced things like apple slices to happy meals. they didn't change the menu that much. but i think mcdonald's realized after all it was more of an image problem they internalized, their ad agency said, they're still operating with the supersize me shame, but people actually love mcdonald's and you don't have to be worried you can embrace that and they did.

the marketing was a big tool, probably the chief tool since the food really didn't change. they cook the burgers to order now, that's really about freshness and not caloric. they stopped advertising directly to children for the most part, i think that was kind of the big moral panic around childhood obesity when children, so, really deft at advertising to young people, like teens, so effectively they were reaching -- >> i would say also, brian, what's so interesting, they also, i'm a sweet tea guy, to tell you the truth, i'm married to mika, i stopped going to mcdonald's a lot. like, you know, i don't have all

three meals at mcdonald's. what they did for instance when coffee, starbucks came along, i would hear from my children, i don't eat there a lot anymore, they have the best coffee. mcdonald's also shifted on the menu and gave more options. they've been nimble. they're not the mcdonald's of, you know, 1995. >> yeah, i mean, in what way, they've moved the menu in and out. they've expanded it and they've honed it back to the basics again, modulating the menu over the years. right now mcdonald's has a pretty streamlined menu compared to other times you'd walk in they were trying to be all things to all people.

>> right. >> we don't have to sell them six different kinds of salad as well. >> "the new york times" senior editor brian gallagher. thank you so much. sorry about that, mika, lack of communication. so, you know, the story talked about it and he talked about three reasons why mcdonald's is doing so well, it tastes good for people who like it, it tastes good, it's convenient, and it's not as expensive as let's say other things. so, they're still doing well. you can't say that obviously about starbucks, though, which seems to be in a bit of a freefall especially since howard schultz left. >> it seems so, a new piece for insider by senior coimportant

katie natopoulos. we need what to talk about whatever's happening with starbucks' drinks. let me first give a disclaimer, i don't want to yuck anyone's yum. i don't want to disparage people's beverage tastes. but whatever's happening on the starbucks menu right now is making me feel like a senior citizen. currently some of the spring favorites on the starbucks app include a lavender oat milk chill, an iced lavender cream oatmilk matcha. the standard menu offerings. starbucks' drink menu has changed a lot, which is fine, great even enjoy. but i feel like i have no idea what most of these drinks even are anymore. iced lavender, oatmilk matcha. i feel like an old person,

baffled and befuddled. i'm with katie in a big way. although, i think the coffee tastes different and not good. i've been -- i gave it i'm embarrassed to say it, i gave it a whole year, maybe it's the state i'm in, you know, maybe it's this specific starbucks, no it tastes bad across the board, like burned. no comments, joe? >> you know, it's so fascinating for this woman to write this article and i had people text me yesterday that are, you know, that are columnists and writers who say i agree completely. anecdotal evidence, you know, not that much. when you start hearing it from

one person after another person, it means the company's really lost its way. they brought back howard schultz, the stock went up, things seemed to be going in the right direction. he left again in 2023. and man, it's a problem. the stock's gone down and the quality and the service has gone down. >> yep, not having it anymore. moments aek donald trump's hush money trial resumed where michael cohen is set to take the witness stand provide key testimony, we'll be following. the first game of the nfl season will see super bowl champs the kansas city chiefs face off against the baltimore ravens, the game will take place thursday, september 5th, on nbc, and peacock. "morning joe" will be right back. be right

ckba shop etsy until june 16th and get up to 30% off father's day gifts that go beyond the classic go-to. save on personalized gear, and other things dads dig. when you want a one-of-a-kind gift to show him he's #1. etsy has it. ♪♪ lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. the effort can feel overwhelming. but today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. taken with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50%. so, if you feel like you're getting nowhere go with 2 doses a year of leqvio and keep bad cholesterol low. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, and chest cold.

when you're ready to go from struggle to cholesterol success talk to your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio to help you lower your cholesterol. lower. longer. leqvio®

a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now we're introducing ultimate speed for business, our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds at no additional cost. from the company with 99.9% network reliability and advanced cyber security, it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. and it's all from comcast business.

welcome back to "morning joe." 9:39 a.m. here in new york city, where the donald trump hush money criminal trial has now resumed. with former trump attorney and fixer michael cohen testifying today. let's bring in once again nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard live outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. also with us, danny cevallos. former u.s. attorney, chuck rosenberg. and former assistant district attorney in manhattan, catherine christian. thanks to all for being here. vaughn, let's start with you, it's begun, what's happening in the courtroom now, donald trump has been joined by some special guests. >> reporter: some special guests including senators tommy tuberville and j.d. vance. the biggest news 20 seconds ago,

michael cohen was formally called to the witness stand to testify against his former boss, donald trump. the man at one point who said he would take a bullet for. michael cohen has been working with state invests gators for the last five years proviing testimony, providing information of what he says evidence that donald trump was behind this alleged scheme before the 2016 presidential election. there's a february 2017 meeting in which michael cohen has publicly stated donald trump and him discussed the reimbursement payments in the plan and the execution of it, but now it's going to be a jury, the jury to determine donald trump's fate that will actually hear from michael cohen, this is a man who served more than a year in prison after he pleaded guilty to federal charges stemming from

the underlying allegations that are being levied against donald trump. he then served a year and a half in home confinement in part because of those very charges as well and michael cohen for the last several years since turning on donald trump has been very public about his desire to see his former boss spend time behind bars, this morning, though, is going to be the big moment not just for michael cohen but the prosecution. 20th witness for them to take the stand and the one they hope is the one that loops this all together, that brings it home. began working for him in 2007 and the two's relation frayed when the stormy daniels story came forward. jonathan. >> danny, cohen is the centerpiece witness and we talked earlier he could be on the stand for three days or even more. walk us through what you anticipate hearing today.

>> it's going to be pretty straightforward, the prosecution is going to run him through his background, how often did you work him, did you communicate with him. then, the underlying transaction, the payment from cohen to storm ya daniels through a company. i don't think there's any real dispute that there was a payment from cohen to daniels the reimbursement from trump to cohen, what trump may have told cohen about both the daniels transaction and the reimbursement, i expect that cohen is going to say donald trump specifically told me to do this and specifically few he was reimbursing me for these payments to daniels, that's the direct evidence i expect we'll hear. when the defense calls cohen a liar on cross examination it will land really with a whimper

instead of an explosion because they put in all this other evidence that supports cohen. >> chuck rosenberg, given some of the criticism the prosecution got about stormy daniels' testimony, i'm curious, how vital is michael cohen's testimony to this trial for the prosecution? if they have everything proven through receipts, paperwork, through documents that are unequivocal. >> lot of this case has been proven circumstantially and that's a perfectly okay to prove a case. as a prosecutor there's no such thing as too much evidence, and so cohen is important, the prosecutors know a lot more about his value than we do, they've been preparing him for this and probably running through mock cross-examinations with him, they have a good sense

of how he'll do on the stand, although it's an educated guess, an educated guess is better than one i'm making. how important is he, this is the guy who connects the entire scheme, the one in the room with trump, the one who spoke to him and took his direction. crucially if you're going to turn a misdemeanor into a felony the one who can also tell you the reason mr. trump did this was to conceal it from voters, to commit an election fraud-type crime, it converts the misdemeanor into a felony, lot of these pieces are already in place. the prosecution has done a fine job of laying out the scheme. you need michael cohen i think to tie some of the loose ends together. >> all right the trial again is under way right now inside the courtroom in new york city. for former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial.

we have catherine with us, former assistant district attorney in manhattan, i'm curious, what you'll be looking for today in michael cohen's testimony? >> i'm looking to see if he does what the prosecutor ask him to do just answer the questions, don't volunteer any information, just do what we ask you to do and if he does that, he won't be allow to give a speech. he has to ask the questions. he has a personal attorney. would say to him, don't mess this up. that's what i'm looking for, just compose himself and not let that bias and hostility seep out either on direct examination or cross examination. >> all right, everybody stay right there. a pretty incredible panel here as we are assessing what's going on inside the courtroom with michael cohen's testimony. just for the record, donald

trump has brought some friends with him again today, senator tommy tuberville and senator j.d. vance. are sitting with him for his hush money trial. that's something. we'll have full coverage of this live right here on msnbc. we're back in just a moment. n j. [ "la donna" by vechi playing ] george, can you turn the music off? george? george! [ phone ringing ] george, can you get that? george! agh! george. hello george, can you mute the music? [ id.4 voice assistant ] alright. [ music stops ] thank you, george. for what? ♪ ♪

(♪♪) with wet amd, i worry i'm not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently, it's the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo.

a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. we're here today to set the record straight about dupuytren's contracture. surgery is not your only treatment option. people may think their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started.

all right. welcome back. we're covering the criminal hush money trial with former president donald trump with our incredible panel and vaughn hillyard outside the courthouse. so, michael cohen has taken to the stand. he actually was -- had to stand up and identify what donald trump was wearing so the two men did come face-to-face, vaughan. awkward. but, again, they're kind of establishing who michael cohen is and how he came to be in donald trump's life, right? >> reporter: right.

because where the witness box is, the view is obstructed between being able to see donald trump and whoever is in the witness stand. so when he was asked by the prosecutor to identify donald trump in the room, that's when he stood and that's where they were able to make their eye contact. right now it's very bio. the jury some might or might not know who michael cohen is. they've become familiar with his name as someone who had very close ties with donald trump and had a cordial relationship to the point that he took out a home equity line of credit of $130,000 to pay stormy daniels. of course, the story that these jurors are going to hear in the coming days is going to be one about their fallout. right now they're establishing to he is. back in 2007 that he had an apartment over in trump world tower and that it was asked of him to go and solve something with the board and that upon doing so to donald trump's

satisfaction, it caught the attention of donald trump who then asked him to do some work on some other matters involving trump entertainment. there is $100,000 bill that he was billed for doing legal work for donald trump and that's when the two of them -- he is not articulating -- met up at donald trump's request and he asked him whether he was happy at his old law firm and michael cohen said, well, enough, and that's when he says that donald trump offered him a job as executive vice president to work for the trump organization. michael cohen said that he was elated and he agreed to it. so we're starting off at the origin stories of the relationship from 2007, that was michael cohen and donald trump and we expect it to escalate from here. >> chuck, after last week there was some theorizing that stormy daniels had gone a little too far and perhaps that had not helped the prosecution so much as if she had restrained her comments. we heard earlier in the program about the need to keep michael cohen fixed on the facts of the

case and not go beyond that, but how do the dynamics of having one person in a courtroom who really hates the other person, perhaps they mutually hate each other, how does that have the potential in your capacity from being in situations like this to change the direction of a trial, the personal dynamics between two people who have so much anonymous towards each other? >> that happens, it's not that usual for a cooperator in a case, in a criminal case, state or federal, to dislike, to loath the person that they're testifying about. what prosecutors will do here is rehearse, prep the witness, they will go through it over and over, they will subject the person to a mock cross-examination or seven, and hopefully mr. cohen understands that if he wants to be truthful and helpful, you know, that he keeps his temper in check, he answers the questions that he's asked and he stays in line as a witness. look, you're exactly right, katty, you know, tensions can

rise, temperatures can flare, but none of that helps the prosecutors here and i am sure that they have worked with mr. cohen to keep this in check. so it's not unusual, happens all the time, and we will see at the end of the day or at the end of the week whether mr. cohen can sort of abide these instructions and keep -- keep his, you know -- his temper in line, in check. >> so, katherine, drawing upon your own experiences, how do you deal with a witness who has such credibility issues, well-documented in this case? how do you try to inoculate him from what's coming from the defense? >> circumstantial evidence, and there is a bucket load here. so the law does not make a distinction between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence and michael cohen has been corroborated. we've had witnesses who talk about donald trump as being a detailed-oriented, multitasking, micro manager. is it believable that allen weisselberg and michael cohen

would have done this and he would have not known? you're going to hear the prosecution argue. i have to say, quite frankly, i never had a witness who had convictions for lying or had a federal judge just a month before the trial accuse him of lying. that's very difficult. but if they're being -- if his testimony is corroborated it should be fine, as long as he keeps his cool. you don't want the jury to think that michael cohen hates him so much that of course he's lying so he has to keep his cool. >> you know, it's interesting, danny cevallos, i think you had said last week that you didn't think the stormy daniels actual testimony was necessary, if i'm correct in that, to have her take the stand. do you think michael cohen is a bit of a risk given how much he hates donald trump? you know that's going to come out when the defense crosses. >> yes, he's necessary in a way stormy daniels wasn't. you need michael cohen to talk

about the actual orders that trump presumably gave him to conduct these transactions. you didn't really need that with stormy daniels. and in terms of michael cohen's credibility, yeah, he has credibility problems, but we have two other prosecutors on this panel and i guarantee you that they have used cooperating witnesses who are much worse of people, these are often killers, gun dealers, drug runners, sometimes they're brought into the court in shackles and prison garb. michael cohen, yes, he has credibility problems but governments have used cooperating witnesses since time and memorial because they work, even with their credibility issues. cohen has them, the prosecution has introduced other evidence to support him, and in their closing they will give some version of the government closing, which is the government didn't choose this witness, donald trump chose to do business with this witness. and so in a sense the prosecution, all the shrapnel

that michael cohen has been hit with throughout this trial, i don't think they mind that. i don't think they will ask the jury to think michael cohen is a perfect person. they're going to say he's got credibility problems, but look at all the other evidence. then of course the defense is going to call him a liar, liar, pants on fire. >> yes, they will. we will be watching, as well as this incredible panel, thank you all very much. we will be following this trial all day right here on msnbc so stay tuned. pretty bombshell testimony expected from trump fixer, former fixer, michael cohen. that does it for us for now. ana cabrera and chris jansing pick up the coverage in two minutes. g pick up the coverage in two minutes. wer e*trade's award-wing trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated.

custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills.

hey! asthma's got you going through it? grab nucala for fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask an asthma specialist if nucala is right for you. ♪♪ good morning, it is 10:00