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Christ. Right after I listened to a whole days worth of music on KEXP engineered/produced by this guy
The good old artist vs art conundrum. It's a real Polanski of a situation
A Polanski of a pickle, if you will.
Cosby of a conundrum
An Epstein of an enigma
/uj Think it's kinda different because I've never seen a Polanski film and now likely never will but this guy had such a profound impact on music that trying to not listen to his work basically means giving up on listening to music altogether.
Well, thats the problem with completely cancelling something. If 50 people work on an artistic endeavor and one’s a pedo, does it really mean you can’t enjoy it for the other people? If it helps any, there’s probably people you listen to all the time that were secretly worse than Albini but never caught (like John Phillips from the mamas and papas). You should watch Chinatown though, it’s amazing and pre pedo. The Pianist was great too.
/uj ugh - I had no idea all these years. This is really fucking sad.
Uj/ First reading the “Pure” review that he wrote that someone shared below I wanted to believe it was completely edgy satire. Gross and disturbing but still maybe just a dumb 25 year old trying to be as disgusting as possible for a laugh. But reading more about Peter Sotos, and their relationship…man it’s just fucked up. There’s no reason to believe he actually assaulted anyone, but if anyone I knew wrote the things he wrote, and apparently viewed…I would not forgive them.
Yep. There is legit no excuse for the things he said.
I’m so glad he wasn’t crude or weird or disgusting in any way.
Edit: the original post with links has been taken down.
Here is a copy of that original post
Medium also covered much of the same content
Well that ruined my fucking day.
Yeah I was about to start bumming out because dude was young and influential and the records he produced were part of the soundtrack of my youth. Then this.
I have kids so kiddie porn makes me wish the worst on people. Fuck.
/uj why tf am i finding this out here of all places?
If it’s any place it would be this place. This subreddit can be realer than all the others sometimes
Thanks i hate it
Agreed. Never heard someone cite the fact that 12 year old girls had husbands in the time of Jesus to defend Jerry Lee Lewis in here.
I'd never been on this sub but I'm gonna sub to it now.
Uj/ people are really precious about artist and dead artist especially. Albino was a legitimate recording genius and people like to conflate talent and virtue. They ignore the horrendous behavior of artist that speaks to them because how do reconcile your feelings about who you are ethically with having a connection to the art of a monster. It’s easier to forget that Albini was a a fan of child abuse materials when In Utero was such a formative album for you. It’s the same thing as Kendrick Lamar calling out Drake for being a pdf file creep but having Kodak Black feature on his last album or defending R. Kelly.
This sub is about making a joke of the culture of guitar players and music dorks and one of the big problems with guitar culture specifically is hero worship. So we make fun of that worship being less afraid to call out what others hold sacred or makes them uncomfortable about this dumb little hobby.
Most the artist you enjoy are bad people and creeps. Personally I don’t think you need to reconcile art and artist but you do need to be honest about it and try to understand the art in the context of the artist.also don’t buy shit that gives money to people you find morally Repugnant, just steal their art like an adult.
”That ninja gave us Surfer Rosa you say he watched those kids?”
-Kendrick Lamar, probably
Also, fuck music producers, they’re the worst of the music industry.
Reading this makes me feel way less guilty for having never paid a cent for any Albini works.
Some times stealing is the only ethical thing to do
People try to cover it up or say "he got over being an edgelord!!!"
Fuck Steve Albini. Degenerate loser who happened to be good at twisting knobs and charged less for it than other producers who weren't pedos.
Oh my god.... I thought he just liked PDF files... people were saying he was a PEDOPHILE??????
It just goes to show you: be careful what you interface with.
Some file extensions can be crazy.
Well damn.
I thought the PDF file thing in the title was a joke about his preference for analog over digital.
Can't tell if you're serious or not due to my lack of redditness. I'm not from around here.
U the tru jerker
What? The guy behind Rapeman??
Yeah I mean are we really surprised Steve Albini was a sicko
Shocking I know.
Dude, I had totally forgotten about this... LOL. Yeah, dude was a total Bad Penny. Which reminds me, the back of that record, 'Songs About Fucking' is basically a drawing of an old, white haired man banging an obviously much younger woman.
That is so much worse than I was expecting. Regretting reading it.
I think the worst part was the hypocrisy.
I didn’t even know he was sick!
I know it's just text but that link needs a NSFL warning. Jesus I did not need to read that
Hooooly fucking shit what a shitstain, rest in rancid piss.
I hate the world
Don't blame the world, it's the peepz.
I feel sick
Holy cow. That is something alright.
uj/ didn't need to read past the headline
Now I hope he died in pain
Wow. I knew I had a good reason to hate him
Being a music producer wasn’t enough?
Nothing like being Heartbroken and Disgusted at the same time
THE MODS DELETED THE POST
Still works for me
This sick bastard and this knowledge has ruined my Jesus Lizard, Slint, Zeni Geva, Melt Banana, Breadwinner and helmet records. What a trash piece of shit.
PDF files are just overly compressed garbage. They lose all of the low end information. Anybody who really likes words reads off of real xerox paper.
If I may unjerk for a second:
The man was clearly an idiot and this pdf file stuff is and should remain problematic and hugely concerning.
But that interview everyone mentions is from the 80s, and Albini just loved, adored being contrarian and an edge-lord. More recently, he has confronted and owned up to that behavior. He didn't excuse it, just put it into the context of his desire for being edgy.
When it comes to pdf file content, that doesn't actually solve anything and I'd wager a jail sentence would have actually been in order. If only just for the Sotos link, because that's already much worse than saying something misogynistic or racist in the 80s in zines nobody read anyway... You know, jail, adequate and all, but the man actually died yesterday anyway.
Other than that there's not much proof at all he was directly involved in that world. So instead of hating on someone whose funeral is already planned I'd kindly invite everyone to redirect that energy to the current pdf file fans or genocidal megalomaniacs on this planet. There's plenty of them walking around all alive and breathing and stuff. Just saying.
I know it's a circlejerk sub but I think it's interesting to contrast this approach to Albini to how this sub (and other areas of reddit) views Clapton.
Like it's okay to put Albini's quotes in context and take his apology as sincere but not for Clapton.
That's a great point. I guess sympathy is a huge influence, I do actually love a lot of Albini's work and his modern personality with self-reflection has something admirable to it. The stuff I mentioned earlier I do still believe, not everything can and should be chalked up to "since of one's youth" even if I sincerely doubt he was ever directly involved in the real pedo scene.
One could also argue that Albini was and always will be mostly know to music nerds. That's a limited pool of people, many of which you can clearly see aren't actually swayed into bad behavior by his problematic stuff at all. You'll see people trying to defend him personally, but I've yet to see anyone say "lol pedophilia is cool" or "he was right about how all women are sluts that one time in 1983." Clapton had much more mainstream pull and might have influenced real-life policy in the UK with a racist background through Powell's racism. That counts quite a bit, I think.
No I totally hear you. And I'm not defending what he said, which was terrible, and which he has apologized for. But I do think there is context.
For one, he was a complete mess at the time. He had kicked heroin only to replace it with coke and booze and by a lot of accounts, including his own, was a junkie and an asshole. He mentioned barely remembering recording the albums he did then.
It was also 1976 and Enoch Powell's immigration shtick had inflamed not only him, but David Bowie, who had his Thin White Duke phase. There was Siouxsie Sioux who was performing with a Nazi armband at times, and who was also encouraged to change a lyric in one of her songs that went "too many jews for my liking". Sid Vicious had also performed with the Nazi band.
But anyway, that half coherent drunken rant on stage nearly 50 years ago was the only thing Clapton said remotely like that and it was such a weird thing too cuz he was tight with Jimi Hendrix. And from what i gather he was tight with Marley too when he was in England. All the blues guys like BB King, Buddy Guy, Gary Clark Jr. they all love him. And after he got clean in the 80s he's done a lot for charities and shit for all kinds of causes. Auctioned off his guitars and given like $20 million away. I don't know the guy but it seems his apology was sincere and that his rant was indeed just some random crazy thing. Now he is on the conservative side and probably still has some stodgy views about immigration into Britain but I don't really think he's this "vile racist" that people paint him as in social media.
This article from the Washington Post was probably the most even handed "hit piece" during the covid days when people were piling on Clapton. https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/11/11/eric-clapton-vaccine-lockdown/
Anyway, it was all ancient history and apologized for and water under the bridge until the covid stuff which was more eye rolling than anything. Like he got vax'd, had some side effects after the 2nd one, wrote some dumb song with Van Morrison because he didn't want to be in lockdown, which was basically Sweden's stance at the time. And then that was kinda it. And nothing really since then. Not really "worst person in the world" material.
Sorry. I didn't intend to make this a huge thing on Clapton. Got high and just sort of went on about it.
“Got high and just sort of went on about it,” aka Clapton in the 70s. I hear you though. The real question is why the fuck is no one doing this shit to Page.
Conservatives don’t get the benefit of the doubt from me. They’re all horrible people.
I'd say it's mostly because Clapton is a hyper-respected rock legend and redditors want to feel smarter than the general public for knowing the "truth" about him. Whereas Albini is more of a niche figure.
i mean claptop literally fucked 14 year olds, i knew a guy who's dad drove craptoan around to pick up his underage hookups. Albini is just an edgelord autist that went too far sometimes
I think you're thinking of Bowie or maybe Jimmy Page.
There was a relationship Clapton had in 1968 with a girl who was 17 when he was 23, which is not all that crazy for that time. And they were together for some years. And then there was Pattie Boyd and him being junkie but nothing really about him and 14 year olds man.
Post Albini's apology for those comments.
I'm not sure if it counts, but this guardian piece covers some of that. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/the-evolution-of-steve-albini-if-the-dumbest-person-is-on-your-side-youre-on-the-wrong-side
It’s on his Twitter, but here is a sample
Regarding being called out is a problem with modern social media
Albini actually made great music, for starters.
The jerk has gone so hard that this opinion that Clapton is just some blooz dude schlub on guitar is crazytown. If anything, Clapton is now completely underrated as a guitarist at this point. Not even being ironic about it. Like y'all just don't know.
There wouldn't be any metal, or hard rock or alternative shit if it weren't for Clapton and Cream. Deserted Cities of the Heart live from 1968 for example.
They blew doors off and played loud. Were the first power trio. There was a reason Hendrix went to go see Cream his first night in England. Almost no one was doing what they were. They paved the way for Sabbath and Zep and grunge and all that came after them.
And then he does Blind Faith with Steve Winwood, a seminal work. And then Derek and the Dominos after a stint with Delaney and Bonnie. One of the finest rock albums period. If you want to hear peak Clapton and why people dug his guitar playing, Got To Get Better In A Little While - Derek and the Dominos (Live At The Fillmore)
If anything, people think of Clapton's playing as "basic" only because he basically invented the conventions of a genre that everyone else copied for decades. Like saying Shakespeare is cliché because we've all heard the stories before. Ignorant stuff.
Counterpoint: Black Sabbath formed in 1968
I recently came across a live concert which must have been fairly recent (last 10/15 years maybe) on YouTube and was kind of floored by his playing. I genuinely haven’t given him a second glance outside of Cream for a very long time and the guy is undeniably a master at what he does. It’s easy to forget the influence he had and how powerful his playing was when you step away from it for so long as I did. I’m not racing over to Apple Music to binge listen, but music is definitely better because of him. Even if he did spawn the bloozdad plague, those folks are fast entering their twilight years and really aren’t hurting anyone with their PRS’s and Line6 amps.
Because Clapton isn’t part of a friggin underground, extremist punk/art scene. Also, he still sucks.
My guy. Do you have any idea how pretentious that sounds lol?
No matter how "uncool" you think he later became, starting in 1963 he quickly became the standard by which other guitarists were measured. That doesn't mean he was the best, and he'd be the first to tell you he wasn't, but
Punk, Heavy Metal, all that would not have existed were it not for Clapton and later Cream which started in 1966. They were the first heavy band. Probably the first "jam" band too. And their tours in the US in 1967 and again in 1968 were hugely influential.
Yes it would have, you are out of your mind? 13th Floor Elevators released their album in 66. Troggs’ version of Wild Thing was released in 66. You Really Got Me was 64. Things were already getting heavy.
no people arent allowed to change. everybody rolls character stats at birth and is stuck that way
A shred of redemption.
No. He doesn't mention the CP stuff at all. "I'm so sorry for saying the N word though guys! I take white supremacy seriously now." What a fucking loser.
What’s funny is people that are super vocal about it now are artsy types that always border on edge lord behavior. I remember them being stoked on buying a copy of pure filth. I didn’t understand it now, I also don’t understand how people viewed it as Art back then.
Probably related to the basic idea that art needs to break boundaries and be transgressive, a misconception that leads to a lot of crap.
What is the pdf file stuff?
Source for him specifically addressing those comments and "owning up to them"?
He's addressed his general attitude multiple times in recent years. There's a Twitter thread, there's a Guardian article and there's this too:
https://www.nme.com/news/music/steve-albini-speaks-out-on-his-past-edgelord-behaviour-3093018
Just some stuff if you feel like reading it. He doesn't directly mention Sotos or the CP stuff, I think. But it does work to contextualize his frame of mind.
He doesn't even subtly reference the Sotos/CP stuff. It's all "whoops I said the N word, white supremacy is a real problem guys, I appreciate women too nowadays."
In other words he apologized for all the easy stuff that will make people nod their heads and say "he's one of the good guys after all!"
Found this on google, I do invite people to read more and make up their own minds. Here's another quote that puts his links in the "it's just transgressive art" camp. At risk of sounding like a broken record: I think this is inherently, absolutely wrong as a way of thinking. But I also think it isn't the same as directly abusing children. I'd argue Sotos should get less leeway in that regard.
"It’s hard for me to articulate, but there’s a friend of mine, Peter Sotos, who’s written extensively about abuse and murder and things of that nature. A lot of his writing is extremely difficult to read. It’s repellent. You’re brought into the mind of a sadist, pretty convincingly. And I feel like that experience, reading that stuff, is shocking to your core in the way that the horrors of the reality of those things should be.
Whereas this sort of Nancy Grace “bombshell tonight in the child murders of” — that sort of show-business softening of the impact of it, sort of turning it into a fucking board game, and turning it into a police procedural where there are heroes and villains and you’re rooting for people… That whole thing has turned these horrible, monstrous, atrocious things into just another kind of soap opera. That stuff is embarrassing for our culture. There’s something about using that as a vehicle for commerce, as the product that you sell — these existential horrors — and using that as a trinket to get people into a commercial stream. There’s something repellent to me about that."
Thank you. Dude was an edgelord, and like to get everyone riled up. He said he should be called out for all the edgy shit he did, and said it was stupid to think you shouldn’t get called out for doing dumb/bad shit. He said he is directly responsible for inspiring edgelords in an apologetic manner.
This guy PDFs!
So what you are saying is that if James Gunn can get away with saying vile stuff on Twitter about child rape “because it was just a joke tee hee”, maybe there are subtleties here as well?
Well… yes? I’m not sure how you’re interpreting it, but my point is indeed that there are subtleties and not everything is super black and white. And even though there are grey areas that doesn’t fully absolve people of responsibility.
As to Gunn, I only heard about some wrong jokes but not about pedo links so I can’t really say much about it. A disconnected “joke” on Twitter isn’t the same as valid real-life links to the stuff you joke about, though.
That's not how a guitar strap works. Idiot!!!
Seriously though...RIP Albini!
Rest in piss you mean? This thread is making focus on him being a pedophile
For real or for circle jerk? Have not heard