Credit
Got the 'early' invite via email and in-app.
The only question asked for qualification was annual income.
Features:
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Up to 2% cashback on all purchases, no bonus categories. After first $3000 spend per month, it goes down to 1%.
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Monthly fee is waived for premium and generation clients. $10/month for everyone else.
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Cashback goes straight into your Cash account
The language makes it pretty clear that this is an early version and not the final product so lots can change between now and a full release.
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Needing 100k$ with Wealthsimple to waive that 120$ annual fee is a questionable choice, especially for only 2% cashback with a relatively low monthly cap
It's great if WS is your only bank+ brokerage, I guess, but at this point, they aren't even a bank with full service yet.
Wealthsimple is an investment firm. All the other features are to convince you to start investing and/or to grow your investments with them.
If people who aren’t Wealthsimple clients don’t find the card useful and don’t sign up, Wealthsimple doesn’t really consider that a loss. They are not out there to maximize the number of cardholders. Same goes with Core users. The fee waiver is there to convince them to invest more, become Premium and save $120 a year.
Until they're not. I expect that the margins produced by credit card holders thru transacting fees will far outpace revenue on WS trade "buy and hold" investors.
I see it the other way around where they're trying to cross-pollinate internally and monetize larger investment accounts that don't currently produce much revenue.
In any case, I'm one of those generation clients that has large balances but that doesn't bring much income to WS, but I'll sure consider getting a card with them. It seems to be a decent product based on the details of the first iteration.
2% back is far more than the interchange WS will receive in 95% of transactions their customers make - keep in mind that Visa also takes their slice of the pie.
The reason so many "new-school" banks that start with a credit offering (Koho/Brim/Stack etc) suffer - is because the big 6 aren't even trying to generate significant profit off of their credit card business, it's more viewed as a way to gain customer stickiness so that they also do their investments with the bank (doing anything with an in-branch advisor is the golden goose) / will consider them first for a mortgage etc etc etc.
I read moving into credit cards is all about customer stickiness IMO - reduces the chances for clients like you to be pulled back to a big 6 with an enticing credit offer.
youre forgetting about people missing payment deadline and accumulating interests at 19%
Keep in mind WS has it even harder to make money with a CC. They also need to pay whatever bank they've partnered with that provides the credit/banking. They're not a bank so can't just make their own credit card. Other banks have thicker margins because they provide their own credit.
I imagine WS would also make some of the interest on carried balances.
They can also loan out shares that are held in their name - they can generate a fair bit from that
It seems that every company offering any kind of financial service eventually becomes a full-blown bank.
How much do you need with WS to be generation client ? Is there any benefit to become one ?
Edit : Nvm saw that you need 500k + to be generational client ....benefits are no that great when compare to 100k clients
Not massive benefits, but better than any broker I've ever used. At 1 mil+, you also get a guy assigned to you who, so far, has resolved a couple inquiries within 48hours for me. I had not seen that advertised anywhere so it was a positive surprise.
Where can you get a 2% for all spending credit card without a fee? The free for premium is just a bonus offer. $100 is pretty standard.
Rogers, which even amounts to 3% if you have Rogers bills to apply the cashback against.
Exactly. They're increasing revenues from the clients they already have by adding services and broadening their eco-system. It's not to attract new customers to simply get the credit card. WS is for investors and they know what investors want.
If you have a TFSA or RRSP investment account with WS (the main reason someone would have a WS account at all), it's pretty reasonable to have >$100k.
The card's not great for non-WS clients. But it seems to be a perk for current WS clients, not a lure for new clients. In the last year they've kept adding new perks for Premium & Generation clients. It seems to be a priority of their current business model.
The $120 fee for 2% cashback is pretty competitive compared other similar cards. Is it the best, no. But it’s comparable. The fee waiver just makes it even better for people who happen to have a sizeable investment account.
Rogers Mastercard is 2% with no fee if you're a Rogers/Fido customer, plus the cashback is 1.5X if you pay your Rogers/Fido bill with the Mastercard and then apply the cashback to that transaction.
Who wants to be a Rogers customer. I hate them will never return.
agreed, fuck Rogers
so sign up for Roger/Fido if I want 3%. i haven't done the math, but is the value you get with 3% worth than the more expensive Roger/Fido plans?
3% only towards Rogers bills so not on everything.
2% back on everything is very competitive
Yes. My cashback covers my entire Fido bill and then some.
Fido plans are comparable to their competitors.
If you spend $1000/month on the card, that's $10 more CB than a competing card, or $20 more than WS Visa if you include the $120 annual fee.
So you can do the math if this card is valuable for you, or not.
ya but im not a roger/fido customer
Most people in the upmarket category are getting that tier of card for free with their bank chequing account though, 5k in a TD chequing account is a lot less than 100k in an investment account
Ya but that 5k is sitting there doing nothing for you.
Meant more in terms of hurdles to clear.
Regardless the 5k might be doing nothing, but there's value in having a fully liquid /easy to access emergency fund
True. But I’d imagine most people who have 100k plus within Wealthsimple have it in their investing accounts, not chequing/cash accounts. Most brokerages including the big 5 don’t give as much as Wealthsimple (if any) in terms of benefits when transferring their investments/cash over. Getting this card with no fees is just another added benefit of using Wealthsimple.
Just meant in terms of the hurdle to clear to qualify, what % of Canadians have 100k spare change in investing vs 5k. Guessing the populations change dramatically
TD cards suck a lot more than this card. Source: have a TD card.
I wrote just above about how Aeroplan points don't work for me: https://old.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/1cswy8u/wealthsimple_credit_card_visa_infinite_is_here/l48veh0/
Their other cards have even worse rewards.
Your link takes me nowhere.
Aeroplan points typically can be redeemed for ~1.8-2.2cents/$ for standard economy fares (I would know, just got back from a trip to Japan off of Aeroplan). If they don't work for your travel habits, that's a shame, but they are far and away superior to standard cash back.
Edit: I specify 1 8-2.2 for standard economy, because I believe you can get upwards of 10 cents per point redeeming for Business, but I think that's some false math because the business value prop isn't there for me
Your complaint about TD cards is that aeroplan points don't work for you? Do you know that there are TD cards that don't do aeroplan points?
What other card can you get that offers 2% on everything? Most bank cards restrict you to things like restaurants and gas stations with everything else being 1%.
I have a credit union card that gives 2% on everything, but it costs $112.50/year.
I think the issue is $3000 monthly spend cap. A lot of people that browse this sub have much higher monthly expenses than that.
But I’m putting groceries and gas (if I drove) on my cobalt to get at least 5% back and I’m sure many others do the same there
It has a $3k/mo cap well that's a deal breaker
To be clear: it's that the cashback over $3k is only 1%.
The Rogers Mastercard gives you 2% on everything or up to 3% back if you redeem the cash back on a rogers purchase/service like your phone/internet bill.
Roger's card has 2% cashback on damn near everything. No annual fee
Edit: you have to have a rogers or shaw account for the 2% tho otherwise it's 1%
Or 1.5% on everything on the World Elite
World Elite is actually 2% now as well, but only if you are a Rogers/Fido/etc. customer. Still 1.5% if not.
What do you mean you need a Rogers account, like link it for all your purchases? What about Fido?
Fido works
If you link your account you get 2% cashback and 3% if you use it towards your bill
Fido and Shaw are eligible as well
Amex preferred Cash back gets you 2% on everything https://www.americanexpress.com/en-ca/credit-cards/simply-cash-preferred/
Uh huh but it has an annual fee and is also an Amex which isn't as widely accepted as Visa. It's not a bad card but it's not the same thing.
If you use points to book flights, the credit cards from RBC, CIBC and Amex will get you around 2% as basic rewards, and more than that for certain categories.
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They already have cheques for Cash accounts. Just the lack of ATM agreement with a bank is holding me back from switching my credit union chequing account to their Cash account.
I think it'd still be a good idea to have a backup bank account anyways. When the credit card becomes available to me, I'd personally have almost all daily banking in Wealthsimple, but I'll keep my Tangerine account linked to WS so I can just EFT or e-transfer money over and withdraw it from a Scotiabank
If you're going to have a backup bank probably make it a brick and mortar bank so you can get teller services too.
I'm not the target audience because my portfolio is large enough that my RRSP contains onlh US based equity in US$ only, for fx withholding tax optimization
A 2% cashback card isn't gonna offset the excess fx fee Wealthsimple would cost me due to that they don't allow Norbert's gambit and charge 1.5% fx fee
WS offers free USD accounts if you're premium or above, which eliminates the round trip FX conversation when you buy + sell. And then they also allow you to deposit USD, so you can easily just convert your money elsewhere before you deposit it.
Why did you get so offended lol. What he said is completely true. The rewards are just horrible. I understand you like the company clearly but that doesn't mean that the product can't be poor. You should like one of those telsa freaks who's willing to die over a brand. They can have a good savings account, investments etc but can also have a crappy credit card. It's okay, both things can be true lol...
2% cash back on everything is great. This makes a great second card to use with a cobalt, if you don't have to pay the fee.
Ditto for being the cobalt supp. I'll have to look at travel insurance or whatnot but this is a really enticing offering. Just a bit disappointed to see that it's a Visa instead of a Mastercard that I can use at costco.
They do offer cheques now. No mobile deposits for cheques or bank drafts though. :(
WS is primarily, first and foremost, an investment firm. They have a discount brokerage, robo advisors, financial advisors, etc...
They aren't primarily a bank like service provider. Sure they have Cash accounts that give you interest, can send e transfers, pay bills, but that's not their primary offering.
No bank's primary offering is their chequing account. Every chequing account is just there to get you in the door for credit cards, mortgages, lines of credit, mutual funds.
Well that’s my point. The chequing account is the big flashy thing banks use to get you in the door. That’s their big sales pitch, come open a chequing account.
WS is the complete opposite. WS’s big flashy thing to get you in is their investment platform. The WS Cash account is just there to placate those who want some bank like services at WS. It’s not their big flashy thing to get you in the door. A chequing account at a big bank is explicitly for that purpose.
It’s better than the major banks which require $6k in the chequing account to waive the premium credit card or bank account fees, as long as interest rates are high, because with Wealthsimple you get 5% interest on your deposits as well. I agree it’s not ideal but overall still an improvement.
That's $100k in any investments with wealthsimple so your RRSP/TFSA counts.
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I'll copy paste this from their website
"$10 per month (or free with WS Premium/Generation) with a 1.5% currency conversion fee when converting between USD and CAD"
It's not no fee, unless there is another 10$ extra option that I didn't find. But then thatd 20$ per month
name one more place where I can get a 2% cashbarck on everything without fees ?
Interesting that their partner is Visa instead of MasterCard considering the Cash account card is a mastercard.
Their cash card is a KOHO product.
Too bad we won’t be able to get 2% at costco warehouse.
Many credit card providers offer both visa and mastercard options in their credit card offerings.
The Cash account used to be a Visa, then it switched to MC!!
Not sure if this guy got downvoted for the triple post, but that is an app error/glitch and not something someone would do intentionally. But the info is accurate. It was initially Visa.
I only see one single post of mine, didn't know if it triple posted 🤷🏽♂️
I was kinda pissed that WS switched from VISA
Now just add no fx fee! And I will have no complaints!
I would be very interested in it. And we would then move more to have it for free. Now after Brim started FX, and as we do spend 8-10 000 a month in us/EU it would be our first chot. For now we use home trust and debit card from WS ( just started as brim just started charging FX)
I doubt they would add that but it would actually make the card much more competitive.
Doesn't look that competitive, even without Rogers services, the Rogers World Elite MasterCard still pays 1.5% CB with no limits and has no annual fees for everyone. It also has a USD multiplier as well. This WS card doesn't appear to have no FX fee. If you have any Rogers, Fido or Shaw services then the WealthSimple card makes absolutely no sense unless you absolutely need a Visa.
WealthSimple needs step up its game imo especially if a no fee premium card can beat it. Yes I know the card fee can be waived by having Premium or Generation status but still weak vs. what Rogers is offering imo.
If they added more perks like a comprehensive travel insurance, smartphone insurance, or any other perks with the card, then sure it's competitive but as it stands, how it's laid out, I say the Rogers card beats it, even more so if you have any Rogers, Fido or Shaw services.
If this card had no FX fee it would probably would be good enough. At least for generation clients. As it stands now I think it’s an uninteresting card.
Absolutely, it's very weird that their base Cash card has no FX fee yet their premium card with an AF charges FX fees. Like seriously? Personally I see having WS status to waive AF is no different than having minimum balances to waive fees with the Big Banks, or like CIBC having $100k+ with them waive account monthly fees and offer credit card fee waivers.
It's also weird that this card unlike most other Visa Infinite cards lack any sort of travel insurance, even other Visa Infinite cashback cards have at least basic travel insurance.
The difference is that a $5000 minimum balance at a big bank to waive fees has opportunity costs since chequing accounts pay nothing. Meanwhile my 100k in WS is invested in the stock market whether or not I sign up for this card, and I make money off of the market. False equivalency.
I mean CIBC has a fee waiver if you have $100k in savings and/or investments as well. WealthSimple isn't the first one to come up with $100k assets for fee waiver. It's really not a false equivalency, it's just that other banks haven't followed suit with CIBC. HSBC had something similar before they got absorbed by RBC.
Bingo. If this was a no-fee card, I'd 100% bite on this. As I'm not a Premium member yet, I'm better off sticking with my existing no-fee cards for what they're offering
Gave it more thought, the cynic in me thinks that they're charging an FX fee might be a signal that once this card goes out of beta, there's a chance they might drop the no FX fee from the Cash account. It looks like based on other posts in r/WealthSimple that this card used to have even worse rewards and they had the opportunity to include no FX fee for this card when they revamped the rewards model.
Given that WealthSimple isn't a profitable business, maybe they might be introducing FX fees as a way to gain more revenue?
Of course I hope I'm wrong but I find it very weird that their base product doesn't have FX fee but their premium product does.
ya if it had no fx fee id be interested but with it ill stick to my other cards.