A place to talk about the box office and the movie business, both domestically and internationally.
Sort by:
Best
Open comment sort options
Best
Top
New
Controversial
Old
Q&A
Apes strong.
Apes strong. Sequel possibility, also strong.
Armchair box-office Redditors claiming it was going to bomb because of the cinemascore? Weak!
Time always puts things in context and trolls in place. It was obvious the score was an anomaly.
I hope all the people who downvoted my comments and felt the need to tell me I don't understand the boxoffice, see this.
The minute that cinemascore was released, I said it wasn't going to reflect the box office numbers. But no. I had a bunch of "experts" tell me not only was I incorrect, but I didn't understand what cinemascore was.
Besides, Kingdom wasn't the best Apes movie but it was a fun one and why would you hope to see it fail?
For me it was one of the best. But I’m an anomaly myself. I avoided the Cesar trilogy when It was in theaters because animal suffering is a huge trigger, and it was obvious from the trailer that Malfoy was there to torture apes. When spoilers of War came, it cemented my decision to never watch the trilogy. But I’m a huge fan of the Maze Runner saga, both films and books and the best part of those movies were the acting , visuals and directing so when ball Was announced as director I knew I was going to watch his movie.
Still I put off watching the Cesar trilogy as much as I could until Ball said it wasn’t necessary but it would enhace the experience. Watched all a few weeks ago and was surprised to find out that the one I loved the less is the favorite of the fandom.
I prefer coming of age stories to action and to scenes that look like straight out of video games so my ranks are Like this:
Rise: 9.6 out of 10
kingdom : 9.5 out of 10
War; 9.3 out of ten
Dawn 9.0 out of ten
I am new to the apes fandom. I watched because the directing and visuals in maze runner were stellar and that billion dollar franchise is underrated. Glad kingdom is doing great and hopefully many people will get to see maze runner which is for me better than hunger games as is a rounded trilogy and the acting is better.
For years on this sub people have been saying that a film needs 2.5x to break even*. Which for Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes would be $400 million. Apes is at $237.5 million coming out of its second weekend. If this were a movie that the sub didn't like so much, it wouldn't be considered a good performance.
*I've personally argued that it's not clear that 2.5x is better than the old 2x rule of thumb (which for this film would be $320 million), but usually get downvoted for that.
Do people even pay attention to Cinemascore ratings?
I don’t think you know what the word ‘anomaly’ means.
Synonyms of anomaly1**:** something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified : something anomalousThey regarded the test results as an anomaly.2**:** deviation from the common rule : IRREGULARITY
Meaning: Movies with low cinema score don't open above expectations. Don't hold well on second week and the reation to said scores aren't of shock and even rage.
Do you speak a second language? I can explain it to you in that language if you prefer.
When multiple independent data sources tell the same story (posttrak and cinemascore not to mention vRT%), I don't think the simplest story is the score being an anomaly.
The opening weekend audience scores are clearly wrong as a measure of true audience reception (good enough hold + higher OW) but I don't think this is as simple as a polling error/random error.
Copy paste of my own comment : I don’t count RT independent measurement despite the so called “verified Sistem” . And even less for a film directed by a guy for whom Alonso duralde (highly unethical but influential in RT reviews and management ) has a grudge .
Box office is for me the only reliable factor to gauge audience reception. Apes and The ballad of snakes prove these “independent measures” have nothing to do with what audiences really want to see. And there are critics whose ratings are counted for the consensus that have a thing against young adult books. Ballad of snakes, maze runner , kingdom (carried by maze runner director) held well internationally and domestically so clearly the audience received them better than what any other measurement could have predicted.
I have been writing against these old ways to gauge the reception of a movie. And from now on I won’t follow post track since there have been anomalies In recent months. Bad buzz for openings weekends is the least we #TeamWatchMoviesAtTheaters need. For all we know there’s conflict of interest in cinemascore polling now.
Long story short: scores are more nuanced than it seems. People make these scores and people carry personal bias, conflict of interest and personal grudges.
Is Kingdom's 55% drop for a B blockbuster on Cinemascore that out of the ordinary though? 2017's The Mummy had a B- and a 56% drop. Black Adam had a B+ and a 59% drop. Blue Beetle was a B+ with a 51% drop.
My best guess Cinemascore is a decent indication of where things are going, but there's no simplistic formula for tying a Cinemascore to legs (or even a film's box office results to financial success). For instance, there might be a factor of films that people want to see but aren't in a rush to see that's probably very difficult to gauge. Though I think you also touched on some of these complications in your other post.
You really don't understand what the words 'troll' and 'anomaly' mean. Also, the results aren't that great. This is an expensive movie.
I loved it so I'm excited for more.
I sure hope so. This most recent iteration of Apes and the most recent Alien films have me totally captivated to the point where they can keep making them and I’ll keep going.
I hope Alien Romulus is good and find success too,i have faith in Fox since both their main released so far which is The First Omen and Kingdom are one of my favourite movies if 2024 so far...
Isn’t break even 450 million ? Even with 160 million domestic . Wouldn’t this need another 150 million internationally just to break even ? Does it have a lot of markets it’s not opened in ?
the budget is 160M so the 2.5x rule takes us to 400M
So about a 44% drop from last weekend internationally. Coupled with a 55% drop domestic, it’s dropping okay. Not amazingly but not anywhere near where a B CinemaScore would normally drop
So any theories why this isn’t preforming like your typical B CinemaScore movie? Why did it even get a B?
I’m guessing the trailers made it seem more action-packed than it actually was. I watched it and it was good. A very solid 8/10. That CinemaScore makes no sense to me, but like I mentioned before, perhaps it was misleading trailers? This kind of baffles me.
Even though I like the film, I can think of three things that would make people give it a lower score: (spoilers obviously)weird pacing with the first half being slow and the second half going very fast, the final battle feeling like it comes very quick and Proximus not getting a proper final duel, plus the massive sequel bait ending
Aside from the ending which is indeed sequel bait (but artfully done all things considered), I have to disagree with you on most of your points. The film starts slow but that helped with the world building since we are getting a big time jump with this film and we have all new characters. The slow start helped me relate with Noah and his Eagle tribe, it allowed for an examination of how mythology interacts with history and how old prejudices never seem to die (and that there is some kernal of truth behind these prejudices). The first half of the film was meaty, it set the foundation for Noah's arc through the film which was very satisfying by the end.
I also liked the very quick climax because the film was speeding up the whole time. It also avoidedthe whole tired trope of tribal clan leadership fights where the victor becomes the new leader that we see so often (and in the previous trilogy as well but it made sense there). The climax fit in perfectly with the themes that were slow-cooked to perfection in the first half of the film (no spoilers).
Basically, everything felt pretty realistic and grounded. My disbelief was thoroughly suspended so kudos to the creators.
I liked it, but completely understand the CinemaScore. It was billed as an action movie. The last 2 movies were filled with action. This dragged on for long stretches with little or no action. And a lot of the action that we did see was just running.
War for the planet of the apes did not have a lot of action
Having just rewatched the 2010s trilogy before Kingdom, you may want to revisit. The last two movies before Kingdom were definitely not “filled with action”.
After watching it, I don't know why it got a B. It's nothing special, but it's way more of a crowd pleaser than, say, Quantumania or BvS. The opening is slow, I guess?
Comment deleted by user
And it has more action than the previous films from the start. The climbing, the attack in the village which was heartbreaking. In rise and dawn we don’t see action until the third act.
That'll do it. Over a year of people saying good isn't good enough for audiences anymore.
If people are going to the theaters, it needs to better than average.
Because that score was an anomaly. Traditional polling methods can fail. If I were the studio I would be researching that. It may be an anti disney thing or a way fans of comic books are trying to boost the opening and scores of Deadpool.
The Hollywood reporter wrote about this. Mostly A and B but many people graded an objectively good film with an f. That’s just trolling.
Not saying you're wrong but I'd be surprised if the GA associated 20th century fox with Disney. I follow movies pretty closely and I never even thought about this being a Disney movie.
The GA no. The average “give Spider-Man rights to marvel” geek and the “comic books movies should be the only offering in theaters kill young adult movies ” audience do know.
Even Before the merge Fox had its own haters. Basically the comic crowd came in with force against anything Fox: bohemian rhapsody , greatest showman, alita, all their book adaptations of juvenile literature. Even Alonso duralde and his collaborators were quick to sabotage Maze runner . They carried their grudge against ball to their apes review actually. Grace Randolph actually said so too in her analysis last week that she hates maze runner and ball. She used to hate Nolan and Ryan gosling too so it will go away.
Long story short: scores are more nuanced than it seems. People make these scores and people carry personal bias, conflict of interest and personal grudges.
'Because that score was an anomaly.'
No, an anomaly would be The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, where the CinemaScore came in much lower than both the PostTrak and RT Verified Audience numbers suggested it would. In the case of this movie, we have three independent measurements of audience reception be consistent with each other, so it can't be called an anomaly at that point.
I don’t count RT independent measurement despite the so called “verified Sistem” . And even less for a film based on a book from the studio that brought us twilight and divergent.
Box office is for me the only reliable factor and The ballad of snakes prove these “independent measures” have nothing to do with what audiences really want to see. And there are critics whose ratings are counted due the consensus that have a thing against young adult books. The movie held well internationally and domestically so clearly the audience received it better than what any other measurement could have predicted.
I have been writing against these old ways to gauge the reception of a movie. And from now on I won’t follow cinema scores. So of course I don’t know what RT thought of ballads, can’t care less. Audiences didn’t agree.
Na, think about the “lowest common denominator” NPC of society who saw this film. They would have been mad at the slow pacing and lack of action and thus gave it a lower score.
Wrong. The movie is probably the most action packed of the entire series, which is not about mindless action anyway. Fact: there’s more action scenes on this one and they come within the fist minutes of the film, in dawn and ride the action doesn’t start until the 3rd act.
I don’t know what film you saw and why are you parroting bad buzz since previous comments made you look supportive of facts. But if the pacing is a matter of taste , the amount of action could be easily verified by comparison. Dawn and rise have less action scenes that don’t come early in the film. I need to watch again bro compare to war but the amount of minutes of action might be on par.
Because Cinemascore is bullshit
So is RT consensus considering the people they are including for the average. Hope studios pay more attention to which critics and YouTubers have personal biases and grudges. Even positive Rt scores come with a cost. Not worthy to have the bad apples at your screenings.
scores are more nuanced than it seems. People make these scores and people carry personal bias, conflict of interest and personal grudges.
Audience box office reception is the only way to verify the way an audience is receiving a movie IMO
Think it’s because CinemaScore is not really relevant at all because no one heard of it, who knows where the polling for this crap comes from, and then you have to wonder about the type of person is even taking the poll…it’s only relevant on here cause some cinemascore astroturfers.
Agree if anything,i find RT and IMDB to be more relevant
It was marketed as an action heavy movie but you go see it and it’s incredibly boring
Hard disagree with it being boring but clearly the lowest common denominator who saw it agree hence the score.
that’s actually really damn good for a B cinemascore.
Last week, one of these analyst articles interpreted the B score as it receiving a lot of As and then a minor amount of Cs Ds dragged it down (maybe people who found it too slow and not enough action).
People criticised that theory at the time, but now it seems pretty accurate. We'll have to see how this film legs out, but this is not a usual B-score second week.
People criticised it because that's how cinemascore works
Time always put things in context and Trolls in their place.
I’m struggling to remember the specific movie(s) but weren’t there a couple recently that had surprisingly low cinemascores yet performed better than the typical film does for their score? If that’s the case and we’re seeing this more frequently maybe the idea of a good cinemascore is shifting a little bit?
Inception had a bad score (B+) as well and got good legs.
I'm very shocked Inception got a B+. I always thought that was a near universal crowd pleaser
People get pissed when there are unsolved questions. GA does not like to think and discuss about "controversial" endings.
55% second weekend drop I think is the lowest second weekend drop of the rebooted series.
Rise dropped 49% and Dawn dropped 50%. It's still lower than War's 63% drop, though.
These numbers and the shocked reaction to that score prove it was an anomaly. If that score had reflected the audience reaction nobody would have been shocked or outraged and the movie wouldn’t have opened above protections.
Hollywood is shooting itself in the foot by using these kind of RT and polling systems. In this new era where people aren’t rushing to see new movies knowing full well they will be out in less than 4 weeks in their streaming services how much return do you get from organizing New York screenings? And some of these so-called critics” promote the (terrible for business) ideas that is better to watch movies at home and that any movie still in the top 5 should open on digital Already? Or use their screening time to use phone or tablets instead of watching the movie? Or when instead of saying what didn’t like about apes they just say “I didn’t care”? More like you didn’t watch. And you previous bias against the director shows up.
This B score was just bad buzz and I saw equal bad buzz from people who got the studio’s money to watch for free at a screening but then they just watched something else on their phones or played their old biases against the director for having started in the maze runner series.
And how many people will rush to see furiosa because the rT fresh score? If a popular YouTuber like moist meter , Tyrone Magnus or jahns looked unenthusiastic they won’t watch at all disregarding the score. I hope these screenings are getting seriously scrutinized in terms of investment vs. return because seems to me they’re doing more harm than good. Invest that money in something else to promote your movie.
My reaction ever since people said this wouldn't do well.
I'd be really happy to see this, Furiosa, Twisters, The Garfield Movie and Bad Boys 4 overperform expectations. Lot of negativity towards movies in general and many hoping movies to fail. Not just here but elsewhere too.
I got an eye out for Horizon saga as well as Alien Romulus. Both dark horses for this summer.
YES! Totally. The next Deadpool could do really well too.
Deadpool 3, Inside Out 2 and Despicable Me 4 are safe bets and all 3 will be big.
Yes! Those were the others I was trying to think of. A lot of great kids movies that should do really well. I hope Beetlejuice does great too.
Def a lot of gleeful doom-shit posting on here.
I wouldn't be surprised if Twisters turns out to be a Top Gun Maverick-scale summer blockbuster success. Not saying it's guaranteed, but I could see it happening.
I don't think it'll do anything close to TGM numbers, but after seeing the trailers, I think it's got a solid appeal to a relatively underserved market.
I see it more like a bigger budget Sound of Freedom type movie that will play to middle America.
I could see $200-250M domestic being in play, maybe even surprising closer to $300M. The big disaster type movie could also play well internationally, like the first one did.
Minus the part about pushing Qanon conspiracy bullshit
Though top gun maverick is kinda out of the question without a Cruise type figure people are absolutely underestimate the power of general audience love for the original Twister and its premise, engagement with the trailers have been surprisingly high and positive. As a gen-z i kind of had no idea how much of a fan-favourite the Twister movie was until i started seeing the reactions to the new one, and how many ppl on here talk about the way non-movie-fans seem excited for the twister movie. Idk i might be entirely wrong but the movie is smart not to be an Indy 5 type corporate sequel that feels like its dredging up old people or repeating everything the same, but instead takes the core concept, takes a hot young cast and good effects and delivers the pure thrill people want for a big summer movie. This’ll make or break Glen Powell as a potential movie star though
Twisters looks pretty stinky, but I like the look of Romulus.
Everytime i went to cinema,Alien Romulus trailer always showed and i never bored of it...it make me more excited for the movie
Garfield is already a thing it has been doing fantastic numbers abroad where movies are still a family thing in many countries. Twisters looks fun and it has the nostalgia factor. Bad boys movies always perform well.
But honestly is a miracle that these days any movie gets to 200 world wide and even more miraculous when it gets to 100 domestic. And when it’s a quality film with Oscar worthy sound , acting and visuals even more outstanding. Thanks god for kingdom making its budget back in less than a month despite not being a July release and after Hollywood lost so many markets. This kind of quality thought -provoking sci fi make a come back this year with Dune , Kingdom And furiosa and it’s driving the box office in a way the action flicks couldn’t.
Now can someone share a garfiosa meme? The ones from AMC theaters are all I could find.
longest running sci fi movie franchise, can't be for nothing
Godzilla would like a word
Comment deleted by user
Half the films have aliens, spaceships, robots and superweapons.
And the one that in 56 years hasn’t delivered a single bad movie. Even the Burton movie had vision and themes and ideas, good acting, good visuals.
Comment deleted by user
Maybe some people hate some films? But being hated by some doesn’t equal being a bad film. I appreciate the burton movie and I’m too old to fall into the manipulation of “everyone hates/loves a movie so it must be good/bad” cinema is art and art is perceived subjectively.
So no , not a single bad movie in this franchise.
I like these movies, hope they keep making them
I never get tired of posting this.
We got 2 iconic reaction memes and it's not even June yet. This and Bardem's reaction.
As written
I'm certain Furiosa will provide us with at least one, too.
The middle finger one
I love this movie and I love this meme.
Nice. Looking solid for 375m+. I think 400m is not out of reach.
More than that.
Lfggggggggg Apes together strong!
I had it at 225M for this week's top 10 list. So it definitely overperformed
Apes strong. Movie good. Make more movies.