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Doesn't surprise me at all. For 12 hours after my c section I was left without pain relief. 12 hours of alternating between begging, crying and screaming. Just totally ignored. I missed my newborns entire first day.
I did the SARS request and my notes are just a jumbled mess. But the 12 hours of nothing really sticks out. The notes describe me as "distressed"
If a man had major abdominal surgery they would never be left 12 hours without strong pain relief.
Doesn’t surprise me either. I didn’t have a c-section but I also had no pain relief because ‘labour does hurt dear’.
And I agree with the pain relief hypocrisy. I understand people don’t want to medicalise life events but nobody is told they have to have their teeth out ‘naturally’.
I still maintain that obstetrics and gynecology has a significant number of covert sadists working in the speciality.
I know of no other speciality where the patient's pain is almost aggrandised and prized. There's been numerous reports of departments engaging in a "cult of natural (childbirth)" at the expense of the patient's wishes - where a patient's desires for pain management were deemed less important than the staff's ideological aversion to modern medical advances.
What colonoscopy would be performed without pain management being offered? Or overtly denied by the medical staff? Or conspired against to get to a point and say "well, it's too late now dear, you have to do this raw".
And it creates an environment that will absolutely attract the exact type of sadistic personality that should have no place in medicine.
I think things aren’t helped by the huge variation in how women cope with labour.
I know of women who breathed their baby out after a straightforward 3 hour labour with no pain relief other than good vibes.
Then there’s me who was in slow labour for 4 days, delusional with exhaustion and so tapped out of reserves I was insistent on more pain relief and quoting NICE guidelines to eye-rolling midwives.
I think a lot of them think it’s all psychological and those of us who struggle are just weak-minded and over dramatic, and this is reflected in how they provide care.
Hell, not even labour - I've had a coil fitted twice, and apparently my cervix is particularly sensitive? I had two different gynaecologists basically telling me I couldn't possibly in any pain at all, while I was dry-heaving from pain and almost passed out in each fitting.
There's just something about my cervix that does not like being interefered with, when pretty much any other kind of pain I can manage my reaction to it.
Yes, this is an exact and succinct summary of the "care" I have recieved in these situations.
Of course it’s an individual thing, with individual circumstances. That makes complete sense.
During my labour, I was having contractions a minute long and a minute apart (visible on monitor). For hours, without dilating significantly or the baby descending. Because of that, it wasn’t considered active labour and they wouldn't give me an epidural. There was meconium in my water that was getting worse and the contractions started putting the baby in distress. It was like someone was hitting an agony button every minute. Worst pain in my life, no contest. I didn’t know how I could survive it. Threw up all over myself twice. It went on for maybe 6 hours and I only remember bits. I was howling in pain.
Eventually it had to be a c-section. Turned out she was totally wrapped up in her cord and that's why she hadn't been descending and my body was basically turning itself inside out to get her out. While I had no idea what was going on and no one seemed to care or be sympathetic.
Then of course they made my husband go home and I had to care for a baby by myself all night without functioning abdominal muscles. Got zero sleep.
This is the bit that's completely insane to me. They put the baby in a cot next to the mother and every time the baby needs feeding, the mother has to lift them out of the cot herself. You're not supposed to lift weights over 10lbs for 6 weeks after a C-section, but they expect you to lift an 8lb weight just a few hours after the surgery.
Fucking barbaric
I wasn't offered pain relief for my colonoscopy and had to actually show them the NHS's own website before they'd let me have gas and air.
I'm very lucky to have only given birth in very good maternity units in very good hospitals because my very limited interaction with the other hospitals is truly shocking. You have to wonder why more isn't being done.
Bets on it being because you’re a woman
My wife was actively encouraged to take pain relief despite her protests for wanting a "natural birth".
Depending on when your wife was having the baby, that may have been an over correction following the report I mentioned.
Which is frustrating because the ideal is to give people autonomy over their own bodies, not force them into one direction or the other
Women's pain is minimised. Painful periods, endometriosis... So many doctors don't care.
Personally, I would trust the word of the patient as to whether it hurt or not. It seems quite logical that it would do so.
Failure to provide pain relief, is not only unethical, it adds to the patients trauma.
This should very definitely be the cause of complaint to the hospital, as this treatment is barbaric.
It was horrible throughout. Even when I was pregnant the consultant had written ‘shoulder dystocia’ at the front of my maternity notes so for several months I had that to worry about. I was lucky in that my labour was very fast but they’d left me so it became a bit of an emergency. I had him and was stitched without pain relief.
Had some sort of fit which thankfully was stopped with medicine because I had had a cannula fitted. Husband thought I was going to die. On the evening they took my baby away because they thought he might have had an infection and I spent the whole night crying. Nobody helped me change the bed sheets that I had delivered in. I had to find a linen cupboard and do it myself.
It was full on brutal and I know I was very very lucky compared to some.
Oh my God. I'm planning to get an elective c section and this is my worst nightmare. How was your recovery after their initial mistake?
I had an elective c section - your partner needs to be there with you the whole time and needs to go and bother the nurses/midwives for your meds every 3.5 hours so you get them on time. My husband was wonderful and I have no idea what care would have looked like if he wasn't there.
Pitty those who were shunted out after 2 hours during lockdown. Like me. No choice but to leave my partner at the mercy of those people while my son had sepsis at birth because those people didn't want to check to see if waters had broke when they were told. Severely anaemic and no iron transfusion offered. Got our notes back and found that crumpled up in the corner was "refused Iron Transf-" obviously added later, when they realised that actually they were negligent and tried to pretend my unconscious fiance somehow denied a common procedure after a Csection for someone anaemic. Also several denied observations. When actually they must have lost the paper towel they wrote the results on. I'm not kidding.
I feel like they get away with so much because 1. People with babies are exhausted and just don't have the spoons for pursuing a complaint or filing a law suit about this stuff, and 2. A lot of the narrative around childbirth and motherhood boils down to 'shut up and be grateful you have a healthy child'.
My partner wasn't allowed to be with me when I was induced during lockdown. Only allowed during active labour. Nobody cared about me or my pain until my partner was with me, then all of a sudden they found their humanity.
It was sick, and the reason why I had a home birth with my second. Which I was absolutely fine and hiking the next day after, versus torn, depressed, and in pain for half a year with my first. I have not trusted medical professionals since.
I find it insane that we have to bring a man to even make the staff think about giving us pain medication.
It doesn't have to be a man. Many new mothers bring their mothers or sisters. It's just about having another advocate in the room.
I think it’s more just having someone else who can make a fuss and isn’t in pregnancy so they can ignore it as just ‘not understanding they need to be in pain’ or whatever nuts excuse they use.
It’s crazy to me that we have to tell our husbands/partners/family members etc that they need to be your advocate and speak up for you. Sorry you all experienced this 💜
I had a c section and my care and my recovery were a dream. I was given regular pain relief (diamorphine for the first day then regular codeine, paracetamol and ibuprofen, discharged with a 2 week supply) and the one time I had pain between doses they got more to me really quickly. I was up and walking the same evening, and only had to stay in because my baby was jaundiced and struggled to feed.
Saying this here purely because I remember being pregnant and stressing about all the bad news stories I heard, especially as I’m a non white woman so according to the statistics more likely to get bad care. Just remember for every bad news story there’s all the unreported normal/good ones that are too boring for people to bother telling you about!
(None of this is said to diminish what a mess maternity care in the UK is or deny how much improvement is needed).
I just want to add to this as well, my wife had an emergency C-Section in October and had no issues with her after care or pain relief
It's a real postcode lottery out there, it seems (which is also what these reports show)!!
Not just a postcode lottery, even within the same hospital people have vastly different experiences based on how busy things are and what staff are on! Increasing staffing and having minimum staffing levels would be a start
I had 2 electives, including one during covid with no partner afterwards, and while the postnatal ward nurses were useless/horrible, I was physically OK and not in anything like the kind of pain the other person's describing. Not to downplay her experience but please don't be scared unnecessarily.
Oh yeah my first was fine. My 2nd elective went very wrong.
Mine were both electives. From day 3 onwards both babies I have been fine. My first birth was fine as I was given adequate care.
My advice- buy over the counter pain killers and take them with you. Don't tell the midwifes at the hospital, just get your partner to manage doses if they do bother to give you any at the hospital so you don't take too much.
This is terrible advice.
And in a perfect world it would be unnecessary. Unfortunately I gave birth in a NHS hospital. Had I known it would be a 12 hour wait I'd have sent my partner to the pharmacy to get pain killers.
Maybe, but it is also terrible to be left without pain relief after major surgery whilst trying to take care of a newborn baby
And this advice here, is how you end up with an overdose or impairment. Well done
So what's the alternative? I went home 24 hours after a difficult c section and haemorrhage simply because there was no pain relief at the hospital.
I should have been in hospital still. But I had no other option.
They miscalculated the weight of my partner's placenta with our firstborn, and she ended up going into shock after delivering the placenta and needed to have two blood transfusions.
I only realised something was wrong when her head rolled back and she became unresponsive.
We have had another baby since then, which was a slightly better birthday for my partner but the baby got twisted coming out so had to go into emergency surgery. Aftercare was spot on at that hospital.
We now have a third on the way and are praying for a nice normal birth!
Female pain is simply not treated as seriously as male pain.
I had ovarian torsion and was turfed out of my bed in A&E, in favor of an old man with dementia who had called A&E by mistake.
I had to squirm, cry, beg and plead, in gut-wrenching 10 level agony, in a chair directly opposite him, meaning I had to watch this old guy constantly getting up out of the bed I was kicked out of, to wander aimlessly about like he was on holiday.
I also had the pleasure of overhearing him being told to "please stop calling", because he didn't even need to be there.
How this "triage" worked here, I have no idea. It felt inhumane.
My dad fell through a barn roof and got sent home from the hospital with "bruises"
The next day he couldn't move or get out of bed because it turns out he broke his pubis and shortened his spine. It still took him a couple days before they did anything to help and he is now 2 inches
And you're going to tell me that he was taken more seriously because he was a man?
I’m not saying every man is taken seriously and every woman isn’t. Read into it yourself if you’re interested, there’s masses of info on this freely available
Similar thing happened to me too. My first C-section recovery, I was a bit sore, but surprised at how okay I felt just hours later. After my second, I could feel every single millimetre of the incision, and sobbed with every agonising step to the bathroom. Later found out they'd missed half my pain relief, so was effectively just on paracetamol. I never quite got on top of the pain after that, so it was a brutal ten days until I could walk without being completely doubled over. I totally agree that this just wouldn't happen to men on this scale.
Same. My first was fine
I went to visit my cousin after her C-section and the only pain relief she was allowed was paracetamol. She was crying from the amount of pain she was in. It seemed completely mad to me. A few hours ago she had a scalpel cutting through her muscles and opening up one of her organs, and now she was only allowed the same thing you take for a mild headache?
My wife had an emergency c-section.
I distinctly remember a very anti-doctor vibe throughout the pregnancy. The NCT was very much, midwives = good / doctors = bad. With an accompanying subtext that midwives are women and doctors are men. Doctors were always gendered as men!
During the birth, the midwives were a shower of uselessness. Things were looking extremely dodgy and a doctor took me aside and said I should demand a c-section or I would lose both. He added he was not allowed to suggest it as the whole thing was midwife led and he would get in trouble. I talked to my wife and we demanded a c-section be considered, the midwives refused. Luckily at that point the consultant came in (a lady) and basically demanded to know wtf they were doing and why wasn't my wife in the operating theatre.
After the birth they simply left my daughter in my exhausted wife's arms and told me to bugger off. My wife was in extreme pain and hadn't slept in the last 19 hours. Needless to say there was no response to any requests for pain killers.
An absolute disgrace, thankfully there were doctors who intervened. The only midwives who seemed to give a stuff were the young trainee ones. Nothing happened to clean the bed, feed or tend to my wife unless they or doctors were around. In the end my wife signed herself out.
That fucking pisses me off!!! I'm angry for you!
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It’s a “women’s issues” problem. Studies repeatedly show that women receive worse and less pain relief than men.
This is it. Issues with or pain associated with women's reproductive systems are just seen as something we should put up with.
Hhhhmmm don't know. I've had a cervical biopsy and iud removed with no pain relief
I had a cervical biopsy and colposcopy with no pain relief, I had a lumbar puncture with no pain relief and I had a colonscopy where I eventually got pain relief because I showed them the NHS website that says I should have pain relief.
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No they aren't.
Are you on crack?
Point 2: "You'll be given a local anaesthetic in your lower back, usually as an injection. This means you'll be awake but will not feel any pain."
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lumbar-puncture/
Not in all cases? My biopsy and colposcopy were done at a hospital that doesn't deliver babies.
I'm a man and have been in hospital multiple times for serious surgeries all involving major pain. Timely pain relief is such a prolific problem that I bring my own morphine supply as back up.
And forget pain relief, the longest they've left me nil by mouth while waiting for surgery without even having a drip up has been over 24 hours. I was having to take sneaky sips of water from the tap in the toilet.
I'm not wanting this to sound competitive, I was once left for over 36 hours nil-by-mouth whilst exclusively breastfeeding and vomiting profusely. I pointed out that I was severely dehydrated (because I was feeding over a litre a day and not taking in a single drop) and they reluctantly gave me a drip and two litres of fluids in total. When I requested more, they told me no, I don't need more.
I was waiting for "emergency" surgery to have my appendix removed even though I was certain that my appendix wasn't the issue. Well over four days since I'd last eaten, over three days since I was formally put on nil-by-mouth, they removed my appendix and said that, strangely, it didn't look inflamed. Turns out, I had cancer.
Ok you win!
Fwiw my step dad just had half his bowel removed and had the same complaint.
Cool my dad had cancer which was diagnosed as a cough for months and then when it was finally diagnosed the nurse was constantly throwing away 90% of his pain medication saying wow the doctor is wasting all this pain medication.
Its not a gender issue imo the nhs is a fucking shambles so many incompetent and uncaring workers.
Sorry that happened to your family. However, to put it bluntly there have been numerous studies that have shown racial and gender discrimination in the NHS - in addition to it being a mess!
*stretched with a lack of staff in most cases
For instance I referred someone to the pain clinic and was told it was over a year waiting list
Interestingly, and not to disagree with your overall point at all, I had an appointment recently. I saw my GP, they made a referral and I was expecting to wait months. A few days later, I had a phone call to book my appointment for a few days after that. I asked at my appointment if they were really concerned (because of the rapid response) and they said that, no, no major concern but they have completely cleared their waiting list. Completely. This was a cardiology appointment at a major hospital. The guy said they thought it was a glitch at first and that the waiting list had somehow been deleted but they did some checks and, no, it was cleared. Wild.
I was with you until the last sentence. There are many negligence cases in hospitals with patients of all genders left without pain relief.
Google "female pain dismissed" (not in quotations) and you'll see countless information about female pain not being taken as seriously as men's pain.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/women-and-pain-disparities-in-experience-and-treatment-2017100912562
Nice article. I especially like that part about men waiting 46 minutes and women waiting 65 minutes. Would love to look at methodology of these studies without any bias. Thanks for the good read. I sincerely hope that correct causality was drawn from all these correlations.
The UK spends £3.2bn on maternity & neonatal care.
The UK spends £2.6bn(2023) on maternal clinical negligence cases, there is obviously a large problem.
The problem is that payouts for birth related disabilities covers a lifetime of care and lost earnings. Admittedly, if there was a lower frequency of claims, this would be lower. But again, most risks come from obesity in pregnancy, of which there is far too much. Why should I have to pay for that? Via negligence claims or via upfront care?
What are you talking about.
He didn't say they shouldn't reproduce. He suggested they take more ownership of their actions.
Tell that to Hull Infirmary - for their multiple negligence during child birth resulting in unwarranted death.
Shit like this happen not just to my sister in law, but many locals who face simple lack of baby heart rate monitor.
The most basic of equipment is lacking in a local maternity ward.
Their negligence paid out but that's after a dead nephew and a continued crippling of the local NHS Trust. That's the kind of pay out that needs overhauling. Nowt to do with your strawman of preventative vs immediate care cost.
Where's that fact been pulled out of? Your ass?
They did this shit when that article that highlighted black women were more likely to die during pregnancy due to outdated medical assumptions, even if they're rich, famous or sports personalities.
But nah, its because they're overweight. Like c'mon guys, just admit you hate bigger people and stop pretending like you're concerned
Ah yes the classic fat-phobia nonsense, as if it's not the most common risk factor in pregnancy. Medicine is so fat-phobic sometimes ughhh!
Not trying to be combative, but genuinely asking - what's your source for this?
Obesity does increase risks during pregnancy and delivery, obese women usually end up with obstetrician care due to this increased risk. I'm a doctor.
I'm asking if most risks comes from just that.
Whenever people say something as if it's definitely true, I like to know where that info comes from.
I've had one birth myself and know quite a few other people who have had less than stellar birth experiences/post natal care, and none of us are obese so that is why I am curious.
My friend was a marathon running, weight lifting gym rat.
Didn’t really help her when they left chunks of her placenta inside her after her caesarean and then brushed her off when she came back still bleeding heavily three weeks later.
It was a good thing she was insistent and demanded a referral. If left untreated much longer it could have badly impacted her ability to have more children - or flat out killed her.
But yeah. Fuck them fatties. How dare they?
Thanks for the anecdote.
Erm you do know you don't get a choice as to where your taxes go yeah? You can't allocate how they are spent.....that is such an American take "those are mah taxes". How would you feel if you got in a car accident and someone said "Well it's his own fault, I'm not paying for his treatment, I don't even own a car"
Well we are subsidising obesity and other lifestyle induced conditions. These people will be quick to get a solicitor to make a civil claim against the NHS, as it's their right, but aren't taking responsibility with their health to begin with. This is the frustration; the NHS subsidises unhealthy lifestyles.
The NHS is there for unhealthy lifestyles it's not there to pick and choose who to treat. It's there for fat people anorexic people drug users drinkers smokers skydivers diabetics rock climbers et al, what you appear to be advocating for is no treatment for anyone who doesn't conform to your view of a healthy lifestyle and that's just wrong.
My wife had a horrendous experience after an emergency c section. Baby was on SCBU after and she didnt see the baby until 18 hours after she was born. Cue feelings of "I have no idea if that is my baby" from her. They left her 24 hours without so much as paracetamol. I admit, I got shirty with the nurse/midwife on duty and demanded to know why they were torturing my wife.
She ended up having a short post partum episode after being left on the general ward with the mum's and newborns. Apparently the crying of other babies cracked her and she broke down searching for her own baby in the middle of the night, who was in scbu.
And they kept forgetting to give her food.
The SCBU nurses looked after her instead and the complaint we made apparently made them change policy on mother's with newborn's in SCBU.
Edit: I misremembered, the SCBU nurses and the perinatal mental health nurses actually whistle blew rather than my wife complaining.
That sounds awful.
Its good they've changed policy now, but it shouldn't take such horrendous experiences to change things.
That sounds so horrible for you all