A subreddit dedicated to promoting civil conversation on issues relating to Israel and Palestine.
source: UN report
So, I saw a lot of people talk about the UN report being released but not a lot of people talking about what was written in the report, and I would like to go through it because I think it's important to talk about the silent victims- the women and men whom last hours had been made into a hell by the Hamas terrorists whom used their power and hate not only to inflict physical hell upon them but also sexual and mental hell.
I see a lot of people in this sub and online in general talking about how the rape claims were faked despite having neumerous sources proving otherwise, some go-prod by the Hamas terrorists themselves (me too unless your'e a jew am i right), and the UN women organization ignoring the suffering of Israeli women altogether, so seeing the UN actual report was a pretty encouraging shift in the UN baise (maybe getting exposed for having paid members kidnapp civilians wasn't a good look after all).
I think that report is important to raise the voices of those who are forever silenced and were butchered in the most inhuman way, those nameless victims should be forever etched in your heart.
so some pointers from the reports:
-
First of all the report states that due to mental issues some witnesses couldn't be interviewd, this is in line with the amount of mental hospitalisation that is reported from Israeli media and sadly in line with the fact that some survivors had chose to end their own life due to the distress and trauma (ת.נ.צ.ב.ה) the report also states the sources- forensic evidence, videos from both Israelis and Palestinian terrorists and victim reports and interviews. It also states that due to the vast amount of bodies processed in such a short time some evidence were lost when trying to hurrily identify the deads.
some more reasons that were stated as hindering:
-
a context in which various forms of violence occurred, with extensive brutality, including postmortem mutilation and booby-trapping of corpses
2.burn damage to a high amount of bodies that made discovering sex crimes on them impossible.
3. rescue teams and volunteers accidently harming findings while moving the bodies or trying to save people
-
one quote also states: The lack of trust by survivors of the 7 October attacks and families of hostages in national institutions and international organizations, such as the United Nations, as well as the national and international media scrutiny of those who made their accounts public, hindered access to survivors of the attacks, including potential survivors/victims of sexual violence. - this really saddens me after hanging around a lot of international forums and social medias because I belive it is true, there are a lot of conspiracy theories, some pushed from some news outlets that heavily pushed the narrative that the victims are lying and now we see the results of it, Victim blaming is vile despite what your political leaning is.
-
TLDR: Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations.- I can't imagine how those victims must have felt, some in their last moments, how vile and animalistic one must be to commit such atrocities, especially gangrape and rape, the report also states later that there were rapes of some corpses, and rapes and then murder, rape in front of loved once. in such conflicts women often get the short end of the stick.
-
Summarying the Nova festival with some quotes- "there are reasonable grounds to believe that multiple incidents of sexual violence took place with victims being subjected to rape and/or gang rape and then killed or killed while being raped" "murdered individuals, mostly women, whose bodies were naked from their waist down – and some totally naked – tied with their hands behind their backs, many of whom were shot in the head." -
the part of the report about the nova festival also states the rape of 2 corpses. the report also states that the bomb shelters and road 232 where the Nova party goers escaped to were found with genital injuries, naked, injured, and mostly burnt. because of the major burn damage to those bodies along the road and bomb shelters some reports couldn't be conclusive.
-
* Kibutzim:"The mission team received credible information about bodies found naked and/or tied, and in one case gagged, in some of the kibbutz’ destroyed houses and their surroundings. While verification of sexual violence against these victims was not possible, circumstantial evidence – notably the pattern of female victims found undressed and bound – may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence."
"the recurring pattern of female victims found undressed, bound, and shot – indicates that sexual violence, including potential sexualized torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, may have occurred."
So in the kibutzim some claims were not being able to be confirmed there are a lot of evidence pointing to the sexual assult that the victims were going through, sadly those women who were found dead, gagged, undressed and humiliated were forever silenced by the beasts who had done that.
The hostages: "the mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity and has reasonable grounds to believe that this violence may be ongoing."- the thought of young children and women that are taken as hostages are being abused sexualy and psychologically is awful. hopefully they all will be home soon.
some more points that aren't location specific that was found by the report:
-
100 dead burnt bodies that couldn't be assesed due to the damage
-
a minimum of 20 bodies with exposed genetelia, at least 10 bound
-
numerous mutulated bodies.
This is almost not worth replying to cos you are pretty incoherent but just to point out your errors: no, I didn't call the UN 'liars'- but it's pretty clear you haven't actually read Patten 's report and know little about its context ie that it's not the official UN investigation (which has consistently been blocked by Israel), she is a special rapporteur and her role/ visit had neither the means nor the mandate to investigate at all, let alone prove, as you seem to imagine that it does (it doesn't), evidence of systemic sexual violence. In fact it does the opposite- it states that there is no evidence available of such systemacity. So I'm not calling "the UN" anything- "it" doesn't and cannot "hate Israel" because it is a giant complex organization made up of people with hugely different knowledge, backgrounds, commitments, beliefs, mandates etc etc. I don't know where you get anything "pro-Zionist" about Patten or the report but as I say, it seems you haven't read her report. Here's some more reports while you're at it: Francesca Albanese special UN report. Or University Network for Human Rights report on Gaza released yesterday. You want systematic evidence of something?
You wrote the most incoherent comment , calling me incoherent. You clearly did not read it if this is their conclusion you drew.
Cool, please provide some quotes from the Patten report that prove systematic evidence of sexual violence, if this is what people keep believing
The report states it is not investigative and there is no tangible evidence. It is a little odd that forensics didn't discover any evidence on the dead, and there's no visual evidence. Considering how many images there were of this atrocity you would expect some evidence if it was systemic and widespread.
The UN literally requested to investigate, but Israel denied them.
This is worth a watch of someone investigated:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SAxDUFvuFRk
Israel is killing so many innocents that it needs to somehow portray Hamas to be worst on some other metric. This is why we're hearing about sexual violence. But the evidence is not there, and of course like any war it's possible there will be isolated incidents of sexual violence and rape. Be it on the IDF side or Hamas side. War is ugly is what pro-israelis would say.
So you obviously did not read the report if this is the conclusion you have drawn from that, instead of refering to the report you link to a youtube video of old antisemic nutjobs and say this is "ivestigative"
I am literally dying in laughter, are you 12? who taught you critical thinking?
There's no substance to the report. No forensics, it notes from reviewing the photos and videos that "there is no tangible indications of rape". That's what the report literally notes! The rest, well it doesn't really confirm anything. It literally notes it is not an investigative report. Israel has refused access to the UN to actual investigate.
If as you are implying that rape was systemic and widespread, you would have some evidence. But there's nothing substantive at all. Accounts from first responders whose claims have been found to be false in other matters.
This source of the video is very credible. Richard Sanders is an investigative journalist.
Attack the points he makes if you have some basis to argue, not that it is an interview posted on YouTube. Put your bias to one side and engage your critical thinking skills.
I don't think anyone is doubting rape and sexual violence has and is occurring.
But you won't find people so eager to accept every Israeli claim without evidence following the baseless smearing of Unrwa or the dead babies claim.
That's why generally allowing outside observers and the UN in is advisable.
I see you did not read thus comment section lol
Haha well a lot of people on both sides just come to argue, I see lots of absolutely insane pro Israeli posts on here too saying things like the winner of a war never has to give back seized land, or that Israel can do whatever it likes in Palestine because they won a war 70 years ago.
But I don't assume the people saying it actually beleive calling for. Collective punishment and other war crimes are being serious. Same with the pro Palestine side, just instinctively rooting for the underdog I guess, wish level heads were more widespread online.
What Hamas did is very wrong, and innocents lost their lives as a result. However trying to justify the killing of over 35,000 Palestinians is just further showcasing the zionists within Israel, Netanyahu being one of the main advocates.
1940s- Hitler did despicable things to the Jewish community as well as the blacks and anyone else who went against their agenda
2024 - Netanyahu begins removing Palestinians and giving the houses to Jews, then butchered anyone in his way saying "oh were killing terrorists" The irony is unreal. As a result 70% of the world now despise Israel and their disgusting tactics.
You are not "defending" yourselves, you are committing the same atrocities as the germans did at the start of ww2.
Did you not see that the UN adjusted the death count a few days ago, reducing Hamas figures by HALF, after further investigation? It's just under 15,000, which is remarkably low for an urban against a terrorist Force hiding amongst the public. Against ISIS in Iraq, the death toll was about 300,000, which is 20 times the death toll in Gaza.
u/Usual-Champion-645
Per rule 1, no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.
How does one even supposed to react to so much misinformed nonsense? Do you actually believe the things you write? This is worrying.
Do your research and read, watch and learn.
If you don't understand or know the history of ww2, please educate yourself. The similarities in how Netanyahu is going about his invasion is identical in tactics used by the Germans.
u/Usual-Champion-645
This violates rule 6. Nazi comparisons are inflammatory, and should not be used except in describing acts that were specific and unique to the Nazis, and only the Nazis.
Bro you write delusional nonsense and then tell people to do research 🥺 where do I research this? R/ conspiracy theory?
Watch documentaries on ww2 and how Adolf want about initiating the war, it's exactly the same.
Ie - how Germany started the invasion of Poland. (Netanyahu is doing exactly the same, just without the camps)
Plus this war has been ongoing for 70 years, 10,000s of Palestinians captured, tortured and locked up with no trial, but they don't get media attention over the years?!
I would expect you to argue as a Jewish person however if you justify what Netanyahu has done then with all due respect I welcome any retaliation from another country.
Even the USA which is one of the most corrupt countries has stepped away from Israel, that tells you something
u/Usual-Champion-645. Match found: 'nazis', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See Rule 6 for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
u/Usual-Champion-645. Match found: 'Hitler', issuing notice: Casual comments and analogies are inflammatory and therefor not allowed.
We allow for exemptions for comments with meaningful information that must be based on historical facts accepted by mainstream historians. See Rule 6 for details.
This bot flags comments using simple word detection, and cannot distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable usage. Please take a moment to review your comment to confirm that it is in compliance. If it is not, please edit it to be in line with our rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
u/Usual-Champion-645. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. (Rule 2)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Yet there's no forensic evidence, and few witness statements, and inconsistent claims. Most coming from first responders who also claimed about beheaded babies and babies being cut out of stomachs. So we have the boy who cried wolf suspicion. See this that investigated the claims:
https://youtu.be/-mxfnya3ZRc?feature=shared
In any conflict there will sadly be sexual violence, that goes for the likes of the IDF and Hamas. But there's no evidence that it was systemic or widespread.
Its interesting isn't it? I've heard so many people shouting casualties happen I a war so we shouldn't go on about 36k dead - we'll rapes happen in wars too.
Fact is, it's all a tragedy.
"Reasonable grounds to believe"... is that language conclusive? So.... genocide?
Yeah it's funny how they switch positions regarding the amount of evidence needed.
It's abhorrent. Pro-Palestine supporters accepted Hamas's death toll count with scant evidence (U.N. now reports 7,000 children dead instead of 14,000). Israel produces reports and video about the rapes, but Pro-Palestine supporters still can't believe it.
Where are these videos?
You're misrepresenting what the UN said. They've changed the way bodies are identified, but identification is on going - the death figure remains in changed, just less children deaths are ascribe to the figure currently.
What video? Videos of eyewitness accounts?
Videos of hamas raping women that were posted to telegram.
Those videos don't exist, there's no tangible visual or forensic evidence. See https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SAxDUFvuFRk
I just want to add one more point that hindered the evidence gathering to the UN of rape which Israel admitted to (unfortunately);
Because of the nature of the Jewish religion regarding the purifying of the dead, many victims were immediately taken to be cleaned and buried before any evidence of sexual assault was able to be gathered.
Moreover, when victims got to the hospitals at the beginning, the evidence gathered did not include sexual assault as it was not even contemplated at the time, so lots of evidence was missed that way.
I’m speaking here as an Israeli who watched this on the news a while back. I’m not justifying by any means any reason as to why the UN ignored us at the beginning
How was sexual assault not even contemplated?
According to the news item it just wasn’t thought of in the chaos at the beginning. Israel has suffered many terror attacks but sexual assault is just something that up until now had not been something widely experienced so it just was not on the list of evidence gathered. Again, this is what was discussed on the news item, this isn’t me stating fact first hand.
I recommend everyone watch Cheryl Sandberg's Screams Before Silence, a film that covers the Hamas' widespread sexual assault of Israelis on Oct 7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAr9oGSXgak&t=843s
The cognitive dissonance runs deep. Pro Palestinians deny Oct 7 while celebrating Hamas and even justifying rape. They printed "Rape is Resistance" stickers and circulated them.
https://x.com/NoaMagid/status/1784202686163771428
Debunked https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/debunking-screams-silence-sheryl-sandbergs-7-oct-mass-rape-film
Your source is called electronic intifada. How are they impartial?
You were given a UN report that doesn’t doubt the sexual violence perpetrated by Hamas, but yeah, “electronic intafada” knows what’s going on.
There is no neutral reporting, but this was in response to Sandberg's film rather than the UN report. Her film includes accusations that the UN reporters themselves have said are discredited. It also relies heavily on the now-discredited NYT article. As for EI, read its About section and some of its reporting and decide its credibility for yourself, or even better watch EI's discussion between Nora Barrows-Friedman and Ali Abunimah on this topic. This is about challenging claims that have been circulated which have no credible evidence, not denying the UN's conclusion that there are 'reasonable grounds to believe' that sexual violence did take place, just as UN rights experts have stated that there are 'reasonable grounds to believe' that Israel is committing genocide against Gazan Palestinians.
The UN’s acknowledgment of all of the sexual violence isn’t neutral reporting?
I’d agree, but I’d say they kind of hate Israel, and this admission that sexual violence took place systematically was surprising.
It took months for them to even send a delegation to investigate, but they finally did it.
Now you’re calling the UN liars who are pro Zionist.
Just curious if anyone else has seen these stickers, this is the first I'm hearing about it, especially since many pro Palestinian that I have heard from either outright deny sexual assaults occurred or condemn it completely.....
There are many deniers, some deny that Hamas has done the 7th of October attack.
I watched all Pali/Hamas-ISIS telegrams that day and believe me... I wish I hadn't seen what i'd seen there.
If you want to go to Hamas dot com to see more evidence but I indulge - IT IS NOT FOR THE LIGHT OF HEART.
so please watch it AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Where are these videos? Not on telegram. They have been wiped off there
Hamas dot com
https://www.october7.org/
God, the gullibility. Hmm yes, created on Israeli-owned wix.com and stating intent to use "deceptive narratives". The idea that anyone would think this is an authentic rather than fake site is horrifyingly laughable. Learn some internet literacy and maybe start looking at the journalists depicting the horrors that are happening day in, day out since Oct 7. You don't deserve to be fakely traumatised, and justice demands that we look at the truth in front of our eyes.
"You don't deserve to be fakely traumatised," what does it even mean?
This footage is from Hamas-ISIS telegrams man.
WTH is wrong with you.
I follow the Resistance News Network telegram. However, you are watching a faked website and the (grossly Islamophobic) images you're watching are presumably traumatizing- but if you're going to post fake sites, you'll get replies. Have you seen these videos on Hamas/Al Qassam channels or just this pretend site?
I saw them in Arab telegrams on the day of 7.10 .
There is so much horror and evidence and yes, the website may be not Hamas-ISIS work but the actual footage is real.
So stop pinkwashing terrorism.
Is that a legitimate website by Hamas? It seems so absurd with the claims it makes that I almost think it’s made up.
No it's not actually Hamas-ISIS, they even claimed it's not theirs.
It's a website showcasing what they did on the 7th of October without censorship.
Site is not theirs, the footage is.
Oh ok because that was creepy to look at all of the propaganda
I wish it was just propaganda... that's the truth buddy. I saw some horrors....
Some chick from here was posting saying the massacre didn't happen I showed her a few videos and she blocked me lol dumb ass woke kids
I just start with me as a child watching the slaughter at the Munich Olympics and accuse Palestinians of harboring international criminals/terrorists since the 70’s . Most of those children haven’t even researched their protests. I can’t say I have changed their minds but they stop arguing back with their talking points.
u/BanzaiSamurai21. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. (Rule 2)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
the UN report also says "There is no tangible evidence". rather this is all just speculation. they came to this conclusion that sexual violence "likely" occured by interviewing 1st responders and witnesses, who have shown to be blatant liars who made up the following lies that were debunked
beheaded babies
babies in ovens
a breast cut off and hamas throwing it around like a hot potato (how demented do you have to be to make something like this up)
8 children tied together in a home and burned
a baby ripped from her mothers womb
the report stressed it was not and investigative report and rather, called for an in depth UN investigation to be done which Israel has blocked. they are probably content w UN concluding "Sexual violence likely happened" and don't want them to look into it further for fears of being exposed
even in the NYT, main rape story, family of the victim in their main story retracted the story all together saying it couldn't have happened.
forensics team would've done found out who exactly was raped, using rape kits. the fact they can't even get the name of a single women who was raped that day is telling.
I didn't report my assault when I was younger. Thank you for letting me know that it never actually happened. I feel so much better! /s
Seriously though, you're a terrible human being that is part of the reason this world is shit.
so i take it ur in full support of the palestinian women in gaza and west bank who reportedly were raped by idf soldiers then? let us together condem the idf as barbaric dogs now shall we?
The rapists? Absolutely.
Not the "gotcha" you thought you were going to get huh?
Be a better person.
so u support rape of palestinian women then? so much for your virtue signalling
What about what it ‘does’ say? Use your grown up brain and stop being such an intellectual coward.
What is YOUR assessment of: “Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations.”
The UN is already the most biased filth organisation who deserves all funding cut and UNRWA dismantled. Not even they could avoid the truth. You are on the side of rapists. You are a rape apologist. YOU would probably do the same given the opportunity, or at least facilitate it happening again.
You are a rape apologist.
have a hard time trusting anything the zionists say without hard evidence. these same "independent" sources came up with all sorts of absurd lies on oct 7 that i mentioned above. the fact is there is no forensic or any tangible evidence that it happened.
i suppose its possible it did happen, and if it did, i denounce it, but the fact is, they couldn't come out with any hard proof. And I don't believe it was "systemic, gang rape". The new york times tried so hard to prove rape happened yet their main story got invalidated by the victim's family. https://www.newarab.com/news/new-york-times-rows-back-claims-7-oct-sexual-assault
while we are on the topic of rape, it is idf who rapes palestinian women. and this time, we actually have reports from numerous women whom it happened to, to back it up
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
https://web.archive.org/web/20240221201137/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67581915
https://web.archive.org/web/20240408212906/https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/female-prisoners-threatened-sexual-assault-subject-naked-beatings
This is a UN report.
Gathered by multiple independent sources.
Watch the videos. Read the report. Coward.
You are a rape apologist. Turns out you’re a racist as well. You would be the one turning the gas on in the concentration camps saying ‘there’s no hard evidence’.
Rape apologist scum.
like what?
they didn't even hard confirm it, it says "reasonable grounds to believe..."
hamas unambiguously gunned down that festival. does anyone go "there are reasonable grounds to believe hamas gunned down a festival"? no cuz unlike the rapes, its taken as fact.
considering that im not the one supporting the current genocide, i doubt that.
are u just virtue signalling rn or do you also condemn the idf for raping palestinian women too?
When a forensic science team determines together with an international force a murder victim is raped do you usually question it in your day to day life?
No, they only question these types of claims when Jews make them. But they’ll believe that the IDF bombed a hospital and killed hundreds of patients even after it was proven that it was a parking lot that was bombed and the rocket was fired from inside Gaza, because Hamas told them so.
but they didn't. they didn't even give a single name. its all speculation w a bit of deciet. these the same ppl saying babies were beheaded anyway.
Do you think families want their daughters name associated with being raped by terrorists to death instead of being remembered by the people they were? "oh this is the name of the corpse Muhamad raped" ? the names of all the Israeli victims of October 7th are well published and well known.
Using this beheaded babies arguement is a strawman, there was nothing wrong with the Hebrew report, it was mistranslated from Hebrew to English. also using it 6 months later to discredit rape victims? I thought pro palis like UN reports.
again, it literally said "there is no tangible evidence". if the forensic teams had names of women who were raped and just chose not to make it public, the UN team would've known about it.
Comment deleted by user
u/boi_from_2007. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. (Rule 2)
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
What-about-ism. Do you believe that rape is an appropriate response to rape? Two wrongs make a right? Well I guess your prefrontal cortex hasn’t finished evolving yet.
i edited the comment read the rest
i said both are bad, but killing civilians isnt the answer.
This post is about the masses of people who deny Hamas SA to this day. And your response is Israelis have committed SA too? So you think people are denying Israeli pain bc IDF is using a harsh response. Not to mention people immediately denied the claims.
Here’s the truth. They deny bc they want to see Palestine as just, moral, and true. They want to see Israel as evil liars. It is immature black and white thinking. It is rooted in antisemitism (Israel will do or say anything to maintain victim status, implies that other atrocities are also calls for attention instead of demands for accountability) . Furthermore, they want to retraumatize the victims and Jews worldwide by making them reexamine it and sow doubt.
evil invaders*
israel is hated not because anti Semitsm, i cant find reason to hate jews but the problem is with what the Zionists have done to the Palestinians, a list of massacres "21 i think during the formation of israel" and they are caused due to the riots of Palestinians disagreeing on people coming from Europe and wanting to settle on an already occupied land, which was the Kickstarter of the current war
no i am sure thats not one of there goals, as i said the problem will be with zionists and what they have done to the Palestinians through out history idk how criticizing people who demand demolition of palestine will affect the jews themselves.
the real reason they support hamas is if they condemn it they simply allow genocide to Palestinians since apparently to everyone "Palestinians=hamas" because apparently "Palestinians voted for hamas" which justifies killing Palestinians somehoe because maybe the votes werent missed (cheated?) with just like every political vote.
80% of US women have experienced sexual harassment or violence outside of a war zone, so I kinda feel this level of violence is in line with the rest of the world not at war. It's just what women live through everywhere and not as unique to Hamas as we'd like to think.
Do 80% of US women get bound and raped as their families and friends are butchered by terrorists around them? Didn’t know this statistics.
The sexual violence wasn't more prominent than what the average American woman experiences in her lifetime. It's horrific, but not unique.
These young girls were probably tripping on psychedelics while getting raped by armed terrorists. Sometimes groups of them. It is a bit different than typical sexual harassment.
Yes, definitely more horrific, but also kinda par the course unfortunately. I was raped at a concert too, it wasn't a violent one, but rape is just everywhere
On one hand, I think there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to show that SA def occurred. After the attack, I believed this 100%.
However, on the other hand, when the UN report first came out and I read it, a huge red flag went up into the air. You can make excuses if you want, but this red flag needs answering before I make a final judgment.
From the UN report: "While the mission team was able to meet with some released hostages as well as with some survivors and witnesses of the attacks, it did not meet with any survivor/victim of sexual violence from 7 October despite concerted efforts encouraging them to come forward."
They were not allowed to meet with a single survivor of SA from 7.10. This doesn't sit right with me. I can understand there is trauma, but the importance of the UN fact finding mission is incredibly important, must know information.
Until independent sources are allowed to interview these people, I don't think anyone should say with authority that SA occurred.
This was not a case of date rape, my guy. Hamas was killing or kidnapping most of the people they came across. It stands to reason that the majority of sexual assault victims would be killed.
There are living victims. They don't need to talk in public to cameras, but they do need to be interviewed by an independent, neutral source that has training in interviewing SA victims.
Some sexual violence victims are not alive to tell their stories but their bound abused bodies remain. A lot of alive victims still remain in a psychiatric care and some have taken their own life, reignating their trauma so soon afterwards is likely to have an ill effect in them.
And curiously there isn't any forensic evidence to suggest rape from the dead, nor any photos or videos. The UN stated there was no tangible visual evidence. You're mostly left with first responders and others who have stated claims which have been debunked. So their credibility is seriously compromised.
To be clear, I wouldn't be surprised if there was sexual violence, it happens in all conflicts. But if it was systemic or widespread there would be some tangible evidence, be that video or forensics. The idea that a terrorist would happily film themself killing a civilian but not film them rapiing is ludicrous.
While I acknowledge the truth of this, it does NOT resolve the issue for me. I find it incredibly suspicious that no victims were interviewed. This can still happen in the future and so I reserve judgement until then.
I'll say it again, in my opinion, no one should be saying with authority it did or did not happen until an independent source is allowed to talk to a victim. You may feel differently based on the circumstantial evidence, but the pro-Hamas side can just say that Israel staged those bodies themselves.
“Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations.”
It’s not just ‘talking to victims and doing rape kits’. There’s video of it. There are all the bodies.
You are a rape apologist.
No, I'm not.
If you reread what I wrote, I said essentially the same as the UN report. I've watched explicit videos of the attack, but I have not seen a recording of SA. If there is reporting that