WAG
Hey Reddit! It's my first time posting in this group but I am currently working on my Dissertation project analyzing music within Olympic Sport and was looking at seeing if anyone has information on Gymnastics routines. I have quite a bit identified already, but I cannot seem to find the music for the older routines or identify the music being used. If anyone is willing to help out, that would be amazing.
EDIT: Thank you Everyone! I wanted to add some links to some of the performances that I still need to identify and clean up the ones that people have graciously helped with already! Hopefully this may help you help me :). Thanks again!
EDIT Pt 2: This has been absolutely amazing. Thank you for helping. I have cleaned up what has been identified and added specifically which ones I still need from 1960 and 1964.
Here is a list of the ones that I am missing.
Rhythmic Gymnastics - Any routines from the 1984, 1988, or 1992 Olympics (I have found some but also made a post specifically for these routines)
Women's Artistic Gymnastic Floor Routines -
1960 - Larisa Latynina - 1st Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFuiUJRFhGY
1960 - Tamara Zamotaylova, Eva Bosáková, Sofia Muratova, and Sonia Iovan. I have not found videos of these performances.
1964 - Larisa Latynina, Aniko Ducza, Birgit Tadochla, Ingrid Fost. I have not found videos of these performances.
1968 - Larisa Petrik - 1st Place - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7vttdh
1968 - Natalia Kushinskaya - 3rd Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxpl6BzYJ5o
1968 - Olga Karasyova - 5th Place - No video found
1976 - Nellie Kim - 1st Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5d-csexALs
1976 - Marion Kische - 5th Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt2tZwZZuZY
1976 - Gitta Escher - 6th Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rooA4OVjj6c
1980 - Maxi Gnauck - 3rd Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uXPwW_nVVo
1984 - Zhou Qiurui - 4th Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0VWUTJf-DU
1984 - Maiko Morio - 7th Place - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82OZP918nSI
Any help would be appreciated! Let me know if you want me to go in more detail about the actual project too! I'd be happy to talk about it. Thank you!! I can also provide links to quite a few of these performances if you would like to view them to help identify them as well.
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For older routines, keep in mind that in Nadia's autobiography, she said that piano players would play the music live and the gymnasts/coaches would have to give them music sheets. So it's possible music from that time would be original compositions or not well known compositions. I don't know when they switched to records.
1979 was the first year with full orchestral music. Some of the gymnasts used an orchestral version of the piano music they had used the year before.
That's good to know! How realistic would it be to think that Olympians used an orchestral version in 1980 (that was their piano music in 1978)?
In Optionals people used orchestral in 1980 - I don't know of any exceptions.
Romania and USSR had switched to orchestral between European and World Championships 1979. But Maxi Gnauck (DDR) was still using piano then.
In Team Compulsories I believe everyone used piano until after 1988.
ETA but a lot of them switched music altogether after 1978 / early 1979 - not just from piano to orchestral. It wouldn't be unusual to have a new Olympic routine.
Elena Naimushina is a good example of someone who went from piano to a slightly different orchestral version of the same piece (Kalinka). Nadia had the same piece with piano for Euros 79 that she had on orchestral for Olympics. The pianist is really skillful.
But Gnauck, Shaposhnikova, Kim and Eberle all used new music when they switched to orchestral, whether in 1979 or in 1980. Naimushina had a new piece too but the Soviets brought Kalinka back to stir up the crowds.
This is great information! Thank you!
Thank you for this information! I have secured some of the interviews from the pianists during the time and they talked about the process. It is fascinating to see. But you are right. It was only in these interviews that I able to identify certain pieces, like 1972 - Olga Korbut's floor routine to Java by Al Hirt. It is starkly different from the original material.
I've realised too for the older routines on piano that the first few bars don't help much - they are often a bit of a "drumroll" introduction for the first tumbling run.
Tunes are more recognisable about 20 seconds in.
Yeah, I can kind of see that. There are a few instances where it seems like the introduction was from an entirely different piece altogether. Almost as an attention grabber.
Nothing to contribute, but anytime I see a PhD student working through their dissertation, I pay my respects, having been through the same grind myself. No matter the field, subfield, discipline, it ain't easy. Good luck with your dissertation.
Agreed - would be great to hear more about the Ph.D. please
Would also love to hear more about it!
I added a comment so hopefully that clears some things up!
Thank you for the kind words!
Lazakovich 1972 is a Ukrainian folk song, Hutsulochka
Thank you! Do you know if there is a "standard" version that people use in gymnastics? I know most folk songs have a ton of variation but I am unaware if there is a particular version that is used within Gymnastics.
I don't know - not sure if any other gymnasts have used it. In any case it is quite unusual for people to keep using the same version.
This thread https://www.reddit.com/r/Gymnastics/s/UVj6HIRvzK may give you some idea: there are lots of variations on the most popular floor folk songs, though you occasionally see coaches reuse something with no changes.
That's good to know, thank you!
Nelli Kim 1980 House of the Rising Sun
Thank you!
You can get all of the 1972 titles you've requested here actually: https://www.gymnastics-history.com/2023/05/1972-the-womens-all-around-final-at-the-munich-olympics/
This was amazing! Thank you so much! The only one that I am missing from 1972 is Angelika Hellmann's performance.
Yang Yun’s music is A Ditty of Shandong by Liu Ming Yuan
And good luck with your dissertation! Been there, done that, and never again!
Oh that's such a beautiful tune to listen to, thank you!! How did you know about it, it seems pretty obscure even on YT? :-)
Fantastic! Thank you so much!
Comaneci 1980 is mostly O Sole Mio and Jambalaya (on the Bayou)
Thank you so much!
Korbut 1972 Al Hirt's Java
Thank you!
Thank you all so much for the first wave of support. To answer some questions about the dissertation project, I am working on my dissertation project examining music as Olympic gendered sport.
The Paris 2024 Olympic games included hip hop dance (breaking) as a sport and it is actually the first time that men are being judged on musicality in the Summer Olympics. All other sports where musicking is a judged component are exclusively women's events and equestrian events. Even in gymnastics, women perform to music but men perform in silence.I am currently collecting data on all the music that has been used in the individual events (solo synchronized swimming, equestrian dressage, rhythmic gymnastics, artistic gymnastics, men's figure skating, and women's figure skating).
The three big takeaways that I am searching for is:
Is there a gendered "theme" within the music being used? Not specifically a character or actual theme but at least something in the music that makes it gendered feminine. There is a lot of evidence to show that one cannot listen to something and make gendered conclusions based on the music by itself. But does the association with specifically women's (and equestrian events) create a subconscious gendering of music.
Musicking itself maintains 19th century thoughts of amateur musicking practices. Basically, there is an antiquated thought that men create music but women (the Other) perform music. As of now, the individual sports that judge an athlete's relationship to music still clings to this 19th century thought. Women's sports perform to music. The only two times in which an individual male has participated in a competition with musical contribution is the Equestrian events (where the horse performs the physical components) and the Art Competitions from 1912-1948 (where they earned medals for music composition, but the music was not performed).
Is there an Olympic socio-cultural standard that hip hop does not align with. Paris 2024 is the first time that men are being judged on musicality. It is actually the first time that a combat sport (athletes directly competing against each other instead of competing solely to judges) has a musical component as well. Even still, it is also the first musicked event where the athletes do not have to secure permissions for the music (that falls to the DJs providing the music for the event). LA 2028 has already stated that hip hop breaking will not be returning to the Olympics in 2028. Hopefully, I can gather enough musical evidence to establish unwritten rules of musical usage that establishes an Olympic Socio-cultural musicked identity and that hip hop does not align with. I have currently identified 652 performances and only one of them includes the use of hip hop within their routines.
Please let me know if there are other questions and I'll be sure to answer them!
Wow, what an interesting project, thanks for taking the time to explain! You should update once you're at the end of your project, I know there are a lot of people here that would be interested in your findings, and probably a few nerds who'd be interested in reading it!
Stray thoughts/questions:
-While your broader argument is totally inarguable, I'm curious why you discount figure skating as the big exception just because it takes place during the winter and not summer? It makes me so curious why figure skating has been such a big exception!
-Do you know about the non-Olympic gymnastics disciplines, because in all of the ones I'm aware of (acrobatic, aerobic, and wheel) both the men and the women do their routines to music; it fits with your thesis so well that these sports aren't in the Olympics. (Acrobatic and aerobic gymnastics are both FIG (International Gymnastics Federation) sports, just like MAG, WAG, rhythmic and Tramp/Tumbling, and both have world championship competitions, so their omission from the Olympics is notable. It's less surprising with wheel gymnastics, which isn't a FIG sport, and is mostly just in Germany. I'm not counting Parkour, which is not gymnastics even though it is technically--and problematically--a FIG sport; and I'm pretty sure there's no music in Parkour anyway).
-This is getting outside of your scope, but also interesting along these lines: as far as I know, male gymnasts have never competed to music. But men's floor used to have a lot more explicit artistry than it does now, and more dance elements. A lot of us lament the loss of the older artistry, and you can find a number of threads on here with people recommending beautiful men's floor routines from the 80s. (And around the late 70s or so the Russians made a push to add music to male floor routines, but nothing came of it--I don't know much about this history and would like to learn more myself). But at least in the US, male gymnastics has developed a pretty macho culture in a way that feels reactionary to associations with it being girly or gay in some way, and male gymnastics has moved away from grace. There are certainly some male gymnasts' whose bars, pommel or rings routines have a fluidity and grace to them, but I wouldn't say it's most, and floor especially has really moved away from grace, making it look very blunt and disjointed now.
The big exception to the above is Heath Thorpe, a fan favorite on the gymternet. His floor is a thing of beauty and he works really hard at artistry and flexibility, and he includes dance elements that don't get credit because they're not in the code (I think the MAG code used to include dance elements but no longer does). Heath is also one of very few openly gay elite male gymnasts worldwide, and he was kept off of Australia's worlds team last year despite winning the AA at nationals, and even though not naming him went against Australia's own selection criteria. It was a big complicated mess, with appeals and legal fees, and left a really bad taste in everyone's mouth about the Australian gymnastics fed. And it smelled homophobic to a lot of people, though there is no way to prove that. Here is an article about it, and there were multiple threads about it here on reddit last year: https://www.essentiallysports.com/us-sports-news-olympics-news-gymnastics-news-i-am-so-sorry-sports-world-shattered-by-unfair-treatment-of-olympian-ahead-of-world-gymnastics-championship-twenty-twenty-three/
-So bummed to hear that breaking is apparently going to just be a one-time thing! As far as hip-hop in gymnastics, I'm curious if the one Olympic example you found was gymnastics or another sport? This has certainly been a topic of conversation in the gymnastics world. Hip-hop is pretty common for NCAA gymnastics routines, but extremely rare in elite. In fact the only example I can think of is Jordan Chiles, who won the floor silver medal at Worlds 2022 with a fantastic, much-beloved routine to hip-hop music, adapted from her college routine. But then a few months ago she mentioned that she was asked by someone high up in the gymnastics world (but not USAG) to change her 2023 routine--which was also to hip-hop music and won her the NCAA floor title last year--for the 2024 elite season. She was not happy about it, and it seemed like the message she got was that she shouldn't be using hip-hop; we'll see what music she picked this Saturday at US Classics, her first meet of the season. There's more interesting context about that whole situation in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gymnastics/comments/1akk6od/jordan_chiles_being_asked_to_change_her_floor/
Haha, so I guess I had a lot of stray thoughts and questions! Obviously no need to respond to this monster post, but you have picked such interesting topics, and it got my wheels spinning! Best of luck with your research!
Thank you for such insight! Hopefully I can answer a few of your questions! And of course I will update this and offer a link to the finished product once it is completed. Sorry for the long 2 part response!
Re:Figure skating as discounted.
I don't discount figure skating. I am saying that there are differences between the summer and winter Olympics. Figure skating is actually the only sport in both winter and summer games that men compete to music (yes the equestrian events allow for both men and women, but the horses are the ones physically performing to music). Figure Skating is actually the only sport in which men and women both were included since the beginning. Even in synchronized swimming, that was a men's only sport in the late 19th century. But it also is a hallmark of a different type of masculinity/femininity too.
I believe the exception comes from two reasons. 1) Figure skating places value on 18th century masculine/classist designations while other sports are more aligned with 19th and 20th century masculine/classist designations. Figure skating used to have rink side orchestras prior to WWII in the Olympics. But the analysis I am doing within figure skating is mostly comparative in which men and women choose music that best suites the needs for the judging. Since men are judged on one more jump (and are not required to do the layback spin) does the music reflect the required number of athletics? It is also noted that the judging system for men's and women's figure skating is done so to make sure that even the top woman's skater will not score enough points to even compete in the men's competition, even though they are still required to know how to perform the same skills. 2) Men's figure skating has been attacked for effeminate behaviors/sexuality issues. It becomes more complicated than why don't men perform to music, especially in cases where men's figure skaters who are excellent artists are then at risk for being labeled as homosexuals or at least lesser of men. There is a reason that the 1990s men's programs used A LOT of machismo movie scores and a ton of those figure skaters were given nicknames to help support their masculinity.
In any case, figure skating is another chapter in this dissertation (as well as breaking, equestrian events, rhythmic gymnastics, and solo synchronized swimming). Each one is given a chapter for analytical purposes however the points of departure for each is different. Figure skating will be a comparative between mens and womens events, Rhythmic gymnastics will be a comparative based on the apparatus used, WAG will be done through the Code of Points restrictions of music (Side note: I am still needing the code of points from 1970-79 if you know anyone that has any copies of those). etc.
Re: Non-Olympic disciplines
This is exactly what I am trying to establish in terms of a Socio-Cultural Olympic Standard through music. There are a ton of disciplines in sport in which men and women perform to music, yet are not in the Olympics. I think the biggest one is how Artistic Swimming (formerly synchronized swimming) teams have to change their members specifically for the Olympics. There have been men on World Champion artistic swimming teams that could not compete in the Olympics because the Olympics purposefully made it a women's only event. Until Paris 2024 where up to two men on a team can be added. It is also interesting that there is a new artistic swimming event being added called "acrobatic swimming." Which upholds the masculine/feminine sliding scale of Artistic vs Acrobatic. Even the research shows that the timing of the inclusion of Rhythmic gymnastics in the Olympics was almost an answer to how WAG was becoming more acrobatic. This question is not about music in sport in general, but more specifically music in Olympic sport. That's the platform that is trying to create and maintain a standard of which athletes should perform to music.
Pt 2
Re: Lack of Artistry in Men's Gymnastics
I agree. Now, this is not something that I will examining in great detail but there are trends in which men are judged and praised for their actions and risk while women are judged and praised for their bodies and relationships. Because of the judging guidelines, and perceptions of possible attacks on sexuality, there has been more and more motion towards focus on acrobatics that look disjunct in men's sport. Same thing can be said for figure skating where the praise for men is what they can do while women are more focused on their relationship with music and how they look. The attire alone shows that. In all sports where the attire is revealing, the reasoning for it is the judge needs to see the body lines. Yet, I have never seen men's gymnastics with exposed hips. There are a few examples across the board of men being extremely artistic and I do not want to make you think that I am saying that they are not. I am focused on how the systems place different values on men's and women's events through the use of music.
Even in Ice Hockey, women's ice hockey are not allowed to body check opponents, citing safety concerns. Meaning it is safe enough for men to body check opponents but not women. Risk = a masculine trait. You can even go farther and say that it a penalty against not forming a relationship for women since it is a direct attack on an opponent.
Re: Hip Hop and Gymnastics
The only example of hip hop music that I have found so far is in Figure Skating. Nathan Chen's routine to Rocketman that had a remix of Bennie and the Jets with rap. While it isn't hip hop music, it is a hip hop element. I think the reasoning is because of the negative association with hip hop. Even in figure skating, the ISU released a hip hop addendum in 1995 stating that vulgar lyrics are not allowed (even though lyrics in general were not allowed in figure skating until 2018). This is a weird thing because pairs figure skaters Duhamel and Radford used Adele's Hometown Glory" and won bronze. The lyrics audibly broadcasted the word "shit" with no penalty. So the designation of "vulgar" is up to debate as well.
With hip hop music though, there is a ton of literature debating masculine and feminine coding within hip hop. Most of the the time hip hop is seen as masculine. the Code of Points has historically made sure that women are judged on "femininity and grace." Not only that, older Code of Points have made it to where gymnasts (and figure skaters) would be penalized for disjunct music or "nonmusical sounds" (ie. sirens, car engines etc). While it does not specifically say hip hop is not allowed, hip hop music is a culture based on sampling. It is a mosaic approach to musical composition. It is the creation of disjunct sounds to make hip hop. While I have not seen anyone challenge these rules in the Olympics, it does have its own standard.
The other theory that I have is the cost of hip hop music. The olympics require the athletes to personally obtain permissions of music use in their routine. They have to obtain the permissions of use for every country in the world and then give those permissions to Olympic use in perpetuity. A Summer Olympic Pink Tax on athletes (since only women's events have to obtain music, and in breaking the DJ is responsible for permissions not the athletes). This is not a copyright license (those fall to the broadcasters) but they need to obtain (and pay) permissions of use before they can submit the music to the broadcasters to license. Since hip hop is founded in sample based music, depending on the music that is being sought after, it may be more expensive to obtain the permissions for a specific song that may have a ton of sampled portions in it. The sample is not a derivative work so there is a good chance that athletes need to seek permissions from those who own the copyrighted song and those that own the copyrighted sample in the song (multiply that by however many samples are being used). I am not sure if NCAA athletes or Worlds require the same permissions from athletes.
I do find it interesting that you have made the distinction between NCAA and Elite. It makes sense because traditionally pop music has been for the masses (amateurs) and classical music was designated for the elite. And there are musical conventions and laws that actually treat the two differently. So there may be an issue of classism within gymnastics and musical use that could be explored.
Congratulations if you took the time to read this entire thing! And please feel free to send more questions. All of these aspects are things that I need to prepare to talk about in my dissertation defense anyway so its good practice!
This is so interesting and what a great concept for your research. Good luck!!!
Just commenting to say id love to learn more about the project!
Wikipedia says that in 1972 Ludmilla Tourischeva used two different songs for the team and AA. For the team competition she used March by Isaac Dunaevsky, and for the AA she used music from the film Die Frau Meiner Traume by Franz Grothe.
Nellie Kim's floor music from 1976 I think is Piano Jam by Kygo but I got that from a random YouTube comment so I'm not 100% sure.
Thank you for this! I am unsure about the Piano Jam since Kygo was born in 1991. Unless there is a different Kygo that I am unaware of.
Would totally read your dissertation when you are done!
Once I've written it, I'll be sure to post here and share it with anyone that is interested!
Please do!
A good era! https://www.gymnastics-history.com/2022/06/1992-the-floor-music-of-the-barcelona-olympics/.
Sorry just realised the list doesn't include Cristina Bontas, will keep looking!
Tourischeva 1976 is partly the Johnson-Silivas-Liukin-Ghigoarta favourite Dark Eyes / Ochi Chernye
Thank you so much!
I really want to know Yang Yun's as well! Also, best of luck, I love this idea for a PhD dissertation!
Jana Labakova 1980 is "Morning Promenade" from The Kid (Charlie Chaplin)
Thank you so much!
Bontas in 1992 is España Cañi
That's hilarious - she was world champion with Stars and Stripes in 1991 and of course they switched her to a Spanish theme for 1992!
Yes!! The Romanians always seemed to like catering to the home audience. Both Szabo and Milosovici did “Hooked on America” for an American Olympics. And there was the misplaced effort of having Gina Gogean do a routine to “Scotland the Brave” for Worlds in Birmingham. But no one topped Bontas’s routines when it came to pandering.
I have seen quite a few instances where the athlete's play to the audience. Brazilian music for Biles's 2016 performance, her planned Tokyo Drift routine for Tokyo 2020, and Věra Čáslavská's Mexican Hat Dance in Mexico City 1968. It seems to work!
Thank you so much!
So interesting to document. Good luck
Zinaida Voronina 1968 is a slow tempo version of a very popular piece for floor music, Hava Nagila.
This is a good example of folk music used repeatedly but never in quite the same setting. Aly Raisman, Lilia Podkopayeva, Lavinia Milosovici and Sandra Izbasa have all used versions of it - many others too.
Thank you so much! I knew Raisman used it and that was to honor the Israeli team that was a part of the Massacre in 1972. But I don't believe that I have heard this slow tempo version before.
Anything from 1964: Polina Astakhova is the second to perform in this clip, and her music has passages based on the Blue Danube.
https://youtu.be/b6UdMR36G3Y?si=FwFYJYLGKaKCJixg
Thank you! I didn't know that this recording existed!
I feel that the third performance, with Latynina, has really familiar music but I can't identify it. Someone else might be able to!
I can't pick it out either, but hopefully someone can :)
Are you including compulsories in your analysis? From the perspective of the type of music the gymnasts were set rather than that which they chose themselves.
If you are, 1996 is from the overture to Die Fledermaus (Strauss) and 1992 is from Paganini's Violin Concerto no. 2 in B minor, with the latter half of the routine being from mvt III (Rondo) also known as "La Campanella". Both pieces are cut quite a bit. I believe 1988 and earlier were original compositions.
I am! I actually have been able to obtain all the scores used in the compulsories! There is a stark difference in style once it became recorded.
Was 1988 an original composition? I've been wondering this for ages as I really like the piece
I believe 1988 was an original composition. I have a copy of the score if you would like it. Just DM me your email and ill send it. I have not been able to find a composer for it though.
I know that 1984 was created by Carol Stabisevski, who was the Romanian teams Pianist (who just defected to the US in 1977). and the 1980 music had two options with a piece by Evsey Gdalyevich Vevrik being one of them.
1988 is actually derived from Andre Gagnon's Mouvements, no. 3. This is one of a handful I knew before you posted this challenge for us, because I absolutely love it:
https://youtu.be/4IyqWrm32DQ?si=9olRUDEeGcwgoKeo
Gagnon also performed at the Winter Olympics opening ceremony in Calgary that year, and I think was involved in the setting for the official documentary on Montreal 1976. Checking my source on the latter.
ETA yes he composed for the 1976 official documentary - you have to sign in for access but you can hear his music in the trailer here: https://olympics.com/en/video/montreal-1976-olympics-trailer-games-of-xxi-olympiad/
It was used for scenes from the men's marathon, at the end of the documentary, and it sounds to me like the basis for the same composition that was used in 1988. (That's in three parts, 1988 compulsory was 3rd, and this I think was 2nd part? Mouvements dates to 1979 but I don't know if it was marketed as music related to the Olympics.
I wonder if, being so involved in Olympics between 76 and 88, Gagnon might also have adapted the music for piano compulsory himself?
I've always wondered about 1984 - Stabisevski makes sense
Takiyura Yukio was the other 1980. There's a little on some of the compulsories at https://www.gymnastics-history.com/2022/06/1958-1996-compulsory-floor-music-over-the-decades/
I love 1988 too and I tracked it down - here's the full version.
https://youtu.be/4IyqWrm32DQ?si=9olRUDEeGcwgoKeo
Thank you so much! Somehow it manages to be even cooler with an orchestra! Unfortunately, it being a piano-heavy piece meant that I would have had no hope of finding it myself, as I've primarily played symphonies and violin concertos, but I'll definitely be exploring more music from this composer
Angelika Hellman has more to it, but it definitely includes arrangements of Wunderbar from Kiss Me Kate. Especially obvious in the middle of Hellman's routine.
https://youtu.be/cK5wCmfvAPA?si=4wI1Tc7aLG0YQUKC
Never seen Kiss Me Kate so I am lacking that prior knowledge. Thank you for this ID!