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Nearly $750 on average and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts aren't available. In all states and situations. Travell, how are you? Oh, well, I'm very grateful and I'm happy to be talking to you. On this side. On this side. How long have you been out? Well, today will be... Like a little under a month. Thursday will be a full month, a full four weeks. - Last month.

Bell Coleman was released from prison after nearly 14 years. Met him at Fishkill Correctional Facility last summer. In 1993, when he was 18 years old, he shot a man three times in horror. And I didn't plan on actually doing anything. I just had a gun and I was riding around and I happened to to see a guy, you know what I mean? And I was like, okay, well, you know, you know, maybe I could just rob this guy, you know. Treville rode away on his bicycle without knowing what had happened to the man. For years and years, he didn't tell anyone about that night. The police never suspected him. We shared Travel's story in two episodes we released last fall. They're called The Confession, Part 1 and 2. Travel told us...

That he always thought about the man he'd shot. And 17 years after the shooting, Travell walked into a police station and turned himself in. He was 36. -You know, I started thinking about it more and more. I'm like, Well, look, you know, if -- Anything did happen, you know, that, you know, that will be, you know, I just felt like that was the only way, you know, I can, I can resolve. You know what I mean? I just thought about it. Well, if I turn myself in, I could find out what happened to him. If something did happen, then here we go. You know what I mean? And then I can kind of move on, whatever, whatever happens after that, you know? - You didn't know if he was alive or dead. - No, I didn't. I didn't know. After a while, you know, I...

Told myself he was all right, you know? But I still didn't know, you know? I didn't know for sure. - Did it get to a point where, even though if he had... Died, you knew that you would be going to prison for a very long time, it didn't matter anymore. Nah, it didn't matter. It was like, it is what it is at that point. That's how I looked at it. Whatever happens, this is it. After he turned himself in... He learned that the man he had shot had died. His name was John Hengel. Travell Coleman was sentenced to prison, 15 years to life. Travell's lawyer, Steve Zeidman. I've heard of people turning themselves in, but it's usually soon thereafter the crime.

Where it's somebody who knows law enforcement is looking for them. What makes this entirely unique is that... Was never a suspect in the first place. So no, I've never experienced anything like someone coming forward 17 years after the fact. So no, this is Absolutely extraordinary. And were waiting to hear from the governor's office. And then, in December of last year, Steve got a phone call. STEVE SULLIVAN Getting that call from the governor, from my perspective, it's-- It's hard to put in words because clemency is so rarely granted, even in as compelling a case as Travell's. When the call comes, you know, there have been times they've actually said to me, Take a seat. We have some good news for you.

This was one of those moments. Travell was being granted clemency. That feeling right there was probably more concentrated than actually getting out. Because at that point, you know, we were anticipating, you know, something good happening, but then again you have these doubts. Like well maybe not, you know, no, you know what I mean? So it was kind of like a, you know, kind of a roller coaster of emotions that I was going through at that time. And so it was like a weight was lifted type of thing. You know what I mean? They can't be stopped. The governor has the power to commute a sentence and basically say you're going home tomorrow. Or they can do what they want. Did in Treville's case. They can say we're reducing your sentence to make you immediately eligible to see the parole board. So I was... Thrilled to hear the news that Clemency was granted, I was not so happy to hear that he wasn't immediately going home because the parole

Or it is never, you know, you can't guarantee that. - Tell me a little bit about what you heard the clemency. Was going to be granted and then you were going to have to go in front of the parole board. What did you have to do to prepare to go in front of the parole board? Was that meetings between both of you? Kind of what are we going to say? What's our case here? - Yeah, the process of repair... For the parole board, it's pretty daunting. Treville and I met, we talked about the interview, we exchanged a lot of emails about what to expect, what are the things that we can do trickier questions, what are the hard questions, how do you respond? I know Treville on the inside working with peers. There was a parole Workshop run by the men inside, but it's gathering materials to give to the board to make the best case possible, keeping your fingers crossed that you don't get parole board commissioners who are unlikely to release anybody, frankly.

Once you get a parole board date, it's just a matter of chance about who are going to be the parole commissioners. And remember, this is on video. It's not in person. There's supposed to be three... Parole board members, often there are just two. And not a lot of notice about who's going to be in front. So you can only prepare so much. Prepare for the worst. And by the worst I mean the commissioners who are going to ask, frankly, what I think are ridiculous questions. Know, why do you deserve parole? What would you say to the victim's family? Those sorts of questions, which there really is no good answer as far as they're concerned. And prepare, you go through every possible permutation, and then trying to make sure that Treville feels as ready as he possibly can. I'm Phoebe Judge. This is Criminal. you And are you thinking of... The whole time, if this doesn't go well, we've got one shot here.

You know, it's interesting you say that. When Travell got clemency and was made, I mean... Eligible to see the parole board. There are a bunch of folks saying, well, the governor gave him clemency, of course the parole board is going to grant release, which to me is like that. Anybody would just assume that as a little frightening. So you see the board, if you're denied, interview two years down the road. If you're denied then, they can set your next interview two years after that. So the stakes remained real high. So it's not as though, okay, we'll be back next. We'll take another number, we'll wait, it's years potentially of life. There have been people who have been denied parole 10, 12, 14 times. One of the first people I ever worked with was... In 44 years, on a 25 to life sentence, he'd been denied parole 14 times. The day of the parole hearing, Travell was brought to a building at Fishkill. The parole hearing would take place...

Over a video call. While you were waiting to be called, were you with other people who were going up against the pro board that day? Well, um, yes, it was, um, about 10 of us. Did you talk beforehand? Talked. It was, you know, a lot of it was nervous chatter, you know what I'm saying? We were just each other, not console each other, but just, you know, you know, kind of helping. Each other get through it. Yo man, you know, don't worry about it. You know, oh, he should be all right. You know, you know, one of those things, yo, look, You been in? Oh man, don't worry about it. You know, stuff like that. And you know, it was a couple of guys. I said that I actually knew that I actually worked with. So we sat there and talked, you know. How does it actually work? I mean, do you-- Treville, what happened? been during the hearing. Steve, you were there on Zoom or-- - No, you can't have anybody present.

'Cause I was there on his own. - I was just there, I was, you go in the room and you go, you sit down and you write in front of like a... Like a TV is probably about that big. And then the people pop up. And they pan around and they introduce everybody and then when they usually have one central person to ask all the questions. Were you nervous? Yeah, I was nervous because You know, I mean, you know, it was just intimidating. I never experienced anything like that, you know? I didn't know if I was going to say the wrong thing. I didn't know, you know, I didn't know the temperature of, you know, how those. Things work, you know what I mean? - Do you remember the first thing they asked you? - I think that the first thing they asked me was, how do I see? Like how do I think I'm different now? I think that was one of the first questions.

Because when I first sat down, they just kind of just ran down everything. Like they were talking. You know what I mean? They didn't ask me anything. They just was like, Oh, okay. You know you're Treville Coleman, and is that correct? I think that was the first question to me. You know what I'm saying? I was like, Yes. And then they decided... You committed this crime this day and this and that, and then they stopped when they went on and on. But then, you know, that was. First question, he says, So why do you, how do you think you're different now? - What did, do you remember what you said? I mean, I just told him that I was a follower back then, you know, and, um, you know, I've learned to be more. Of an individual these days. And I understand that I had to have a more righteous direction in order to live unlike how I was. Was living, you know what I mean? And I understood that. - Treville told them about what he.

Do if he got out. He wanted to get a job and work on his music. When it was over, How did you feel like it went? Were you still nervous? I was. I was nervous because... Because I wasn't nervous, I was uncertain. I didn't know, you know, at that point, you know, no, they don't give you any indication of what they're going to do. Like they're just, okay, you know, all right, good. Thanks for coming today. And I saw, you know, I knew a couple of guys that went in there and, you know, it seemed like they did well, you know what I mean? And then they wind up, you know, telling me later like, yo man, I didn't, yeah, I didn't make it. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't know, I didn't know what to think. You know what I mean? I was like. You know, all I could do was wonder. But the only thing that did help me get through that, Long, seven days. They said, we'll be getting back to you early next week.

This was maybe a Wednesday. She said, she said, she said, We'll be getting back to you early next week. So you know the first thing I thought Monday. I should have an answer, you know what I mean? So that's what kind of helped me get through the weekend. I said, Okay, Monday. We'll be right back. Thank you. Criminal comes from ritual. A daily multivitamin can help make sure you're getting the nutrients you need to keep. Your body and mind in shape. I've been taking rituals essential for women every day for months. When we were heading out on tour, and I knew I'd be burning the candle at both ends. And now that the tour is over, I'm still taking them. Like mint. Unso Money vitamins are gigantic and smell bad and I like that you don't have to take them with food.

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Tap or click gift mode on your Etsy app or on Etsy.com and then answer a few short questions about who you're shopping for and what they like. The rock climber, you might find some jewelry made with tiny carabiners, or for your neighbor, the chef, you might find a monogram charcuterie board. Whether you're looking for a birthday present... An housewarming gift or just a little something for someone special. Etsy makes it simple to find gifts made by independent sellers. The search might even help you become a more creative gift giver, unlocking new gift ideas that you would never have thought of. Need to find the perfect gift? Try Gift Mode on Etsy now. Steve, we don't have a lot of time. Steve, you know what I mean? I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. You knew the day that Travell was going up against the board. Were you differently? but in the same way thinking, Oh, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? kind of on pins and needles. - Very nervous.

And you know, the thing about it too is a case like Treville's, because it was because of who he is in the high profile nature. That adds an extra element of concern because ultimately whether it's the governor, the parole board, they know that their decision is going to be public. It's going to be scrutinized. It's going to be in the media. And in the back of my mind I just kept being fearful. That somehow that was going to tip the scale in the wrong way. Were you trying to be positive, though, to talk about it? Were you trying to not let your quiet fears show? I remember the last time we saw each other just saying, and I know it sounds like a cliche, but you know, you got this. He had the answers to every question. We really didn't need to even prepare that much. And it's also the way people come across, and I know that that's subjective for all of us, but I mean... Some people come across as just thoughtful, mature, humble. And to me--

That matters to the parole board, whether it should or not is a whole other thing. But yeah, confident and trying to convince. Confidence and keep some of my own fears to myself. Because with each passing day, there are two ways to think about it. You know, you're thinking, okay, is it with each passing day, is that good or bad? There was a way in which I was hoping, okay, this was Wednesday, Friday, they should just let you know Friday you got parole. And when we didn't hear Friday, that kind of made me a little concerned. Did everyone know that you had gone up against the parole board? You know, your friends? One kind of waiting along with you to hear what was going to happen. Inside, not outside. I mean, of course outside, but. But yeah, well inside, you know, just the people that I dealt with, like the people in my unit, you know. It's kind of a big thing when you go to the parole, when you're inside, 'cause everybody knows with time, there's a certain set like.

Certain week when everybody goes to parole so you know I like ran into a couple people while I was walking over there so people know that you're going to be there. On a parole, you know, so. - Did the guards know? Did you speak to any of the guards about what was happening? - Yeah, some of them. Like I said, there's really no secrets in prison. know that you... Even the guards, Oh yeah, I heard you went to parole the other day, good luck, you know, stuff like that. They were mostly supportive. On the Tuesday after his parole hearing, April 2, Travell was called into an office. Fish kill. And you didn't know when they just said come down here you'd know it could have been yeah it could have been bad so The thing is, it's true though, now I know it's not really a legend, you know what I mean? In prison they say if you get, when you go in the office... If you get a small envelope, if the envelope is really, really thin, if you see it and they get in their hands, you die, then you probably be coming home.

But if you get a thick envelope, that means it has all your stipulations, the reasons why they denied you and all of this stuff in there. So if you see a thick envelope, like kind of like. I understand what's getting ready to happen, you know? And I kind of saw someone at desk, you know, so I'm. I'm like, Oh, I didn't know which one was mine. You know what I mean? So I'm like, Oh, man. I sat down and then the ladies she said she like reached over and Look at my envelope was like super thin. Like I was like, wait a minute, this might be good right here, you know? So I opened it and it's, you know. And at first I really didn't know what I was reading. She said, she said, All right, go to the second page. And I went and I'm looking, you know, I expected it to have like, you know. Oh, that is approved. So I was like, you know, so I just was looking.

And all I saw was a date and I saw the date. So I looked at the date and I really couldn't believe what I was reading. I was like, How come it say 42924? And she was like, Oh, that's... That's what it says, you made it. She obviously, she was, you know, according to her, she didn't know what the... What the result was, you know, but she said, Well, that means you made it. You know what I mean? I was like, Oh, really? So I was like, Wow. I said, Praise the Creator. And he said, Yeah, I mean, you know, you made some good decisions, you know? So congratulations. What was that walk? back to your unit-like. This talking about it is like I got a little jump, you know. Butterfly, it was a feeling, it was just so liberating.

I was able to walk and look at, you know, in fish care you could look at the highway when you're walking by and it just, it was like, wow, you know what I mean? But the funny thing about jail is, unless you walking out the gate, you still-- like I'm still in jail you know. The only thing that was going through my mind was like I still have to wait. 25 more days, you know what I'm saying? So I'm like, okay. - The part that then became... Little sticky and this is where corrections and government officials can be a little cavalier about time because they had the time, the release date wrong. Travell was eligible for immediate release, but that's not what the paperwork said. It's a good idea. Trying to get someone to pay attention because their first response is, Hey, the guy got parole. Good enough. This is great. He's going home in a couple weeks. Everything is good. What do you need us to look into?

So it wasn't done yet, you saw that and said, Okay, well now we have to fix this. It's not, you know, it's from my perspective, and this is as an outsider looking in, it's not done until you walk out the gate. Members you can't don't exhale completely clemency is beautiful celebrate but we're not there yet the parole board the interview Looks like it went well. Not to, and even when you get the letter saying you're going home. Until you walk out. Until you walk out. Then you can exhale, then you can fully celebrate. You know, that day, everybody that went to the... Parole Boy, you know, I saw them. We were all going, they all called us all at the same time. So people were, you know, coming from wherever. They were coming from but you saw them with their papers in their hands some of them were like sad some of them were you know you could

out that they made it, you know what I mean? So for me, when I got back, you know, I was, I was, I was overjoyed, you know what I mean? But then, so when I got back, Steve, my daughter and my wife, the first three people I emailed, boom, emailed them, sent it out. And I called my mother and she told me, she said, Look, if you get paroled, don't call me and say, you know, get this long drawn out thing and just try to, you know. Look, my eyes got, you know, she says, say it quickly. Like just call me and just say. I'm coming home, you know what I mean? So when I called her, that's exactly what I did. I said, Ma, she picked the phone up, and she knew something was up because I don't usually call her before. 7.30, you know, and this was like, it was about 9.30ish, like, you know, so I called her and she said

What's going on? I said, Ma. And I was getting ready to draw it out too. And then I was like, Oh, I remember what she said. I said, I'm coming home! It was like, Oh, she just screamed so loud. I was like, Aw, man. We just laughed and just, you know, it was just a joyous occasion, man. We'll be right back. Thanks to Progressive for their support. While you're listening to the show, maybe you're also doing something else. Driving dishes, folding laundry. I listen when I go on walks. If you're not currently driving a car... You could also be getting an auto quote from Progressive Insurance. Save money right now from your phone. Drivers who switch to Progressive Insurance Save nearly $750 on average. And auto customers qualify for an...

Of 7 discounts. Discounts for having multiple vehicles on your policy, being a homeowner and more. Progressive will be with you 24/7, 365 days a year, so you're protected no matter what. You can get a quote for your car insurance at Progressive. To join over the 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Calc. Specialty insurance company and affiliates. National average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive. In June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts are available in all states and situations. Eurovision is here. This year's contest gets underway this week in Malmö, Sweden. But this year's contest comes with a dose of controversy. I'll give you one guess as to why.

What people are mad about. Yes, correct. It's that. Organisers of the Eurovision Song Contest say they are assessing whether Israel's entry breaks the rules of political neutrality. I think it's a shame. I think there is no way that Israel should be able to participate. Pro-Palestinian protesters are taking to the Swedish streets more than a thousand times. Swedish artists including Robin have called for an Israel ban, some European politicians are joining them, Charlie Hart... On today's explain to help us figure out if Europe can see Its way out of this situation.

You know I'm like okay I'm you know I'm mentally preparing for a whole month I'm like okay I got a little time to get myself together and stuff like that April 2nd Never forget in the morning they called me and said, Yo, they want you to come down to the office and sign out. I was like, Sign out? I said, I don't go home for another almost 30 days. It was April 2nd. I go home in 27 days. I said, Sir, why are you calling me so early to sign out? I'm not going home until the 29th. Oh no, you're going home April 4th, you're going home on Thursday. I was like, and it was Tuesday. I was just... I said, You serious right now going home two days from now? He was like, Yeah. The mistake that had been made with his release date had been fixed. - I mean, that's why things happen so fast, is when they finally realized it, they said, Okay, wait a minute, he's going home Thursday.

I never really knew what happened. Yeah. Who was there when you walked out of the gate? Oh, my mother. My mother was there, my ex-wife, my sons, my aunt, a friend of mine. I drove her up there, my brother. - What was that drive up to Fishkill like? Before I even came out, what were you all talking about? We were like a kid the day before Christmas. So, just such excitement. Travail's brother, Karan. We, that's all we could talk about. Like, we would stop talking about it for 30 minutes. Is to try to change the subject, but would somehow get right back to the joy of... Knowing that he would be home soon, you know? - And what was it like to be able to be with your brother

Not in a visiting room, not of anyone monitoring what you were saying or what you should or shouldn't do. It's the best. Us feeling in the world, you know, like we're, we're right now in the process of, you know, building a relationship as two grown men, you know, with kids and, you know, with, I was a teenager when he went away, and he was going through... Everything that he was going through. So we, you know, wasn't as close back then. So now that, you know. We're both free and grown and able to just build a new. Relationship and it means the world. Did it feel surreal driving away? Yes. Yes, it felt like, you know, because I had drove down that same road plenty of times like going to a trip or going to medical trips.

You know what I mean? That's the only time we really leave the facility. You know what I mean? So, you know, the... I ride down that same road, like, knowing I'm not coming back. You know, knowing that I don't have to come back that day, you know, stuff like that, it was definitely surreal. Steve, what is it like knowing that Travel is out now? Home? You know, I mentioned this to him. There's a group called the Clemency Collective, which is 22 people who receive clemency. And there's a planned meeting to kind of welcome. The newest member of the collective, so which makes everybody pretty excited. But the other part of it is, and this is not to put a burden, you know what I'm saying? This with Treville right here, but, you know, to the extent that it fits within his life to be sort of a spokesperson when the time comes, you know, for clemency, for what it meant for him, for what it means for others.

I'll say this other part too, when he got clemency, word spread so fast. And I don't mean just, I mean everywhere actually, but in the legal community, people knew about it, the governor's office obviously knew that he got parole. So it's send a message, you know, because he's known to people, right? And so him getting clemency, him making parole, it reverberates. My hope is it opens the door. Little bit for others. About they would be when, you know, two years ago or three years ago, you're thinking, If there's a day when I'm out, has it lived up to what you thought it would be?

Yes, I could say yes. I'm not I'm not gonna You know, I really didn't think about going home a lot You know what? I mean? Because I just you know, that's just not you know Healthy to do when you you know in there because you know, you start thinking and you start getting anxious and you know you know, so I tried to just From time to time, coming home did cross my mind, you know what I mean? It was just a happy feeling, you know, of like, wow. Maybe one day this will be over, you know? So for me to come home, it's that feeling manifested, you know? So I feel... I feel the joy that I thought I would feel, you know? When I first came home, you know, it's. It's definitely a difference. You notice that, you know, wow, you know, I'm able to you know Certain things, certain liberties are restored. But you know, it's kind of like riding a bike. Like you really think, you know, you never really forget how it is to just.

To be able to just move, you know. - What was it like to be with your sons and daughter? I mean, what... You know, you talked about that, you know, being out with them, and have you gotten to spend a lot of time with them since? I've got to spend not as much time as I would like, but I would like to take a trip. Them and like go somewhere you know be able to relax and you know wake up and be with them again you know like things like that you know with the curfew that I have in the place to the way I'm staying, that's not really... Really possible right now. You know, I still got to come home every night. I mean, come back to that place every night. I haven't had a chance to really like, you know, spend nights with them and stuff like that. When that trip does happen, where do you want to take it?

Everyone. I don't know, I would like to go with my kids. I would like to take them to somewhere fun. I'm trying to... Away from saying Disney World. Are they too old for Disney World? No, nobody's ever too old for Disney World. I'm probably going to something like that. You know what I mean? I don't want to take, I don't want to take them to something like that. I also want to just experience things with them. Or experience seeing different things. It doesn't have to be super exciting or anything just. You know, maybe just seeing, you know, a certain region or, you know, something like that. At his parole hearing last month, Travell submitted a personal statement. In it, he wrote, By no means do I believe that I'm excused for taking Mr. Henkel's life. What I expect of myself is a self is to be aware of the second chance at life I have been given, and to be in the

Example of love, mercy, truth, and forgiveness. you Criminal is great. Created by Lauren Spore and me. Nadia Wilson is our senior producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising producer. Our producers are Susanna Roberson, Jack Isajeiko, Lina Silison and Megan Kinane. Our show is mixed and engineered by Veronica Simonetti. Even Alexander makes original illustrations for each episode of Criminal. You can see them at ThisIsCriminal.com. Criminal.com. And you can sign up for our newsletter at thisiscriminal.com/newsletter. If you want even more Criminal, join Criminal Plus. You'll get bonus behind-the-scenes episodes twice a month with even more criminal episodes.

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Save nearly $750 on average, and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. Multitask right now. Quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. National average 12-month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts aren't available in all states and situations.