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It gets a lot of hate, but I don't think it's bad.
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I hate that they killed Data and that is all I think about from the film
Spiner killed data. when a decade later, he could have kept playing the immortal and ageless android through mocap.
I don't think he would come back even then. He seemed pretty done with Data by Nemesis and I can understand why. They had done pretty much everything they could with the character, and I don't think he was interested in Data just being a side piece character.
I think over every film he should have become more human to some degree. After First Contact, he should have had the skin of a human they should have reverse engineered it. Then he could have aged naturally, although Data sacrificing himself for his friend was the ultimate expression of his humanity, even if it maybe wasn't done in the best way.
As soon as I saw the skin graft in First Contact, I vividly remember thinking "Yes! What a great way to give Data a more human appearance that will age! Way to go writers! You addressed a real world production challenge in a clever, interesting way!"
Then at the end of the movie he looked like the Terminator, and the skin graft was never spoken of again. *sigh*
But he did eventually come back in Picard multiple times.
Are you trying to say by 2010ish they would've been able to fix his age?
Because Picard from like 2/3 years ago wants a word.
Especially the first dream scene that's literally supposed to be TNG era OG data. Why does 'JL' remember him with a really chubby cheeky old face.
Picard constantly cut corners. Look at how good Michael Douglas' de-aging was in the marvel movies.
Oh, ant man had roughly the same budget as 20 episodes of Picard, that few minutes of deaging was probably the entire sfx budget for an episode by itself, give them a break
That because it was Disney’s money and technology. That quality of de-ageing isn’t available to most.
The effect was inexcusably bad for a production with any kind of budget. There are fan-made edits using popular deepfake tools that make Data look much more true to form.
So much about Picard 1/2 stinks of really random amateur decisions.
It seems like they just went "oh it's only a 30 seconds scene so it doesn't matter" which is totally wrong.
Happens a few times all the way through to the USS Copypaste x 50,000 in tight formation by the end.
That was probably the only memorable thing from the movie besides Tom Hardy.
The ramming maneuver sticks in my mind.
"It's not her fault! Leave Deanna alone!"
For me it's when they DISENGAGED from the Romulan ship by GOING BACKWARDS. I remember shouting "OH COME ON!" in the theater. I'm still mad about it...
I almost expected the "vehicle backing off" alarm to ring. Even in space. That scene was hilarious in a bad way.
Watching this with a buddy drunk and on shrooms, and he says to me "that dude reminds me of a young Tom Hardy" and I said "Billy, that is a young Tom Hardy"
I was okay with it. I hated how they brought him back in Picard.
Tom Hardy doesn’t get enough credit.
Neither does Ron Pearlman.
some things never change
War. War never changes.
I never get tired of joking to people "Did you know Tom Hardy and Patrick Stewart look identical?"
It was interesting hearing Patrick Stewart talking about Tom Hardy in his memoirs. Apparently Tom was standoffish and hardly interacted with the cast at all. They thought he was an oddball and figured he wasn't going to be going far after Nemesis. He was thrilled to see how wrong they were!
As for Nemesis, Patrick Stewart hated it.
Wasn't the dumbshit dune buggy race his idea?
If you're stuck doing a terrible movie, might as well throw some dumbshit fun stuff in.
That's how I understand it 🤣
It is interesting that Stewart now hates Nemesis because my recollection is that he was staunchly defending it years after the fact.
I feel like there's probably an industry "statute of limitations" for how long you have to lie about projects you hated
Yeah - agreed. PStew (as much as I adore him) is at least partially responsible for a large percentage of the plot mis-steps post TNG. I think a LOT of Nemesis was developed with Patrick's ideas, and SO MUCH of PICARD, Seasons 1 & 2 are Patrick.
I don't think Patrick's opinion on Star Trek material is all that relevant to fans honestly. Again - I love him - but over the last couple years it's become evident that he doesnt necessarily "get" Star Trek in the way the fans (myself specifically) mightve expected.
Seriously though. I thought he played that part very well.
It took me watching the movies probably 5 times for it to dawn on me that Shizon was the same dude that played Venom.
Also weird that Tom Hardy’s character has the same name as the dragon from DBZ.
While I think his performance was overall alright, imo he delivers one of the worst (if not THE worst) lines in all of Star Trek when he yells "HARD TO PORT!"
Was that his 1st movie role
He was in Band of Brothers, then Black Hawk Down, then Nemesis.
I dang I didn’t realize Band of Brothers was that old😳
Not sure if very first, but it was first in a lead role.
Lame story.. Great performances.. Beautiful new ships.. Specially the Valdore.
It's a mindless action film with some okay character bits and some very good character bits that were cut for some inexplicable reasons. However, it does have some things going for it and I actually rewatch it every few years.
Cast give great performances IMO especailly Tom hardy. I also like Dina Meyer in her supporting Romulan role
It has the best Berman-era space battle by a large margin and I actually think it holds up really well still because I find Nutrek's space battles to be overwhelming visually at times
Although I think First Contact has the best Berman-era song on it's soundtrack with the opener, I think the soundtrack overall for Nemesis is the best of the Berman-era films
I think Troi getting one-over on the person who psychically violated her was pretty dope
Data's sacrifice and the aftermath with the cast did leave me bummed although I thought
That said it is sloppy as fuck with lore and Picard's characterization (Patrick Stewart allegedly is the reason the Dune Buggy Prime Directive violation happened)
Yeah the the Battle of the Bassen Rift is fucking phenomenal.
It just wasn't any good, especially as the crew's swan song. If you listen/read interviews with the cast, they hated the director. He kept calling Levar Burton "Laverne" and couldn't remember a lot of the cast's names or their character names.
Add to that the script is just retreads of other Star Trek movies (Shinzon is Khan. Ships that can fire while cloaked. And so on)
I always thought that Marina Sirtis looked really uncomfortable in the scene where she's just wearing her night gown but I've never listened to any of the cast talk about this movie before so I'm not sure if that's actually the case.
They really done marina dirty on a lot of things. She gave me a good 30min rant when I met her at comicon and told her we were thrilled to see her in lower decks and Picard. She has a lot of animosity towards paramount.
If you want to really get enraged, listen to the director's commentary for the movie. He was so clueless.
And he was a better choice than Frakes!?
I don't know what dark pact Baird made. His movies are weak, so they sent him back to being an editor.
I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere on that set the spirit of Michael Winner didn't show up to say "I can't light you properly if I don't see your tits!"
The director was an editing guy who somehow got the directing job.
If I want to give credit, there are moments where the photography and editing are doing things that they should be doing.
The Battle stations Montage where people are running and grabbing Phaser Rifles, as everyone sets up the ship, and the music swells, is really nice.
And the space battle itself looks really good from start to finish, with my only real criticisms being that the battle dialogue itself is mediocre, and I don't like cliche bottomless pits.
I think if the battle was supported by better writing, and the Scimitar itself was less cheesy, it would be near the top of the pile for Trek Fights.
From what Wil Wheaton said the cast loved the script. It was a weird move by the studio to pick a director who didn't care about Star Trek. The cast had to intervene so that the movie did not break important canon.
No wonder they hated him. He was the director and he couldn't be bothered to learn the names of the main cast.
He also thought Geordi was an alien, randomly insisted on digitally lowering Worf's voice to make him sound more alien, plus saw that they deleted every decent character scene from the final cut (some of which — while still lacking — could've helped make it a better sendoff).
This wasn't supposed to be the TNG swan song movie. The next movie being planned was TNG teaming up with DS9 and VOY crews.
What!?!?!
Spiner had an idea which would have seen timey wimey shenanians bring together the likes of Khan, Kluge, Chang, Shinzon, the Dominion and the Borg to threaten the Federation, which would then see Picard recruit Kirk, Spock, and Archer from the past and work together with crew members from TNG, DS9, and Voyager in the present to fix things.
Honestly, it sounded like a bloated mess.
Bloated mess that I'd watch the hell out of
Or it could have turned out like Spider-Man: No Way Home, which was pretty good
Yeah it sounded like fan fiction put to screen. Not to say it couldn't have been good, but considering how they could barely handle the TNG ensemble well in the previous movies, juggling leads (and egos) from five different series, plus Stewart's usual producing interference that resulted in things such as the Dune Buggy and Anij, would've made it a nightmare.
Have a look at the tagline: https://www.originalfilmart.com/products/star-trek-nemesis-2002-teaser?variant=32178954666077¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2018-12-29&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4ofZ5d73hQMV6zUIBR1e_wWREAQYAiABEgLXzvD_BwE
Thank you. I tell people this was the tag line all the time and have to prove it when they say the tagline was “the final journey”. I feel like a crazy person reminding people Nemesis was never meant to be the finale.
I still don't get why Shinzon was all like "gotta destroy Earth because the Romulans discarded and abused me."
Similar to Star Trek (2009): Spock tries to save Romulus from what is essentially a natural disaster, but he fails. Rather than just dealing with it and respecting Spock for at least giving a shit and trying, Nero goes on a vengeful psycho rage against Spock. Dude... be angry about the supernova that destroyed your planet, not the guy who tried to save it!
Well, Shinzon was also an idiot. All he needed was Picard's blood to survive, but in the several times they met early in the movie he easily could've gotten it w/o much stress or effort. Instead he took his sweet time (for a dying person) and even when he did kidnap him, he just waited still.
On the plot in general, I agree. Even if it would've been derivative, it would've made much more sense if they'd borrowed from Yesterday's Enterprise and the Ent-C by having Shinzon aiming to destroy Romulus to get revenge for his upbringing, and the Enterprise-E crew puts their lives on the line to protect the Romulans from a conflict that was essentially of their own making. It could've been the start to a lasting peace post-Dominion War.
because he was the villain. duh.
Tom Hardy, good. The battle between the Scimitar and 1701-E, good. Most everything else, meh. The car chase scene, cringe. The direction of the film, bad.
It’s a dumb premise trying to be WoK with a villain whose sheer existence creates a field of plot holes. It’s also a hollow shell of itself as its best character moments and lines of exposition were left on the cutting room floor. It’s redeemed by introducing the world to Tom Hardy and how much Picard’s first and third seasons rely on its weaker plot points, making it vastly more important than it otherwise would have been.
from what I heard about Tom Hardy this might be another crime Nemesis has to answer for.
Not a fan. The film lacked heart and the ending was completely underwhelming.
Picard S3 did a far better job of wrapping up TNG era.
I can't understand why you would make the villain an artificially aged-up clone of Jean-Luc Picard and not cast Patrick Stewart in the role. It's not like he was unavailable. I think it would have made the dynamic a lot stronger, no offense to Tom Hardy.
B4 was a bad choice, too. It should have just been Lore if that's the kind of story you wanted to tell. Even better if you let the marketing make it look like he was the villain, only to have the brothers team up instead. I loved that when it was Thor and Loki.
The supporting cast didn't have enough to do, which was every one of those movies. The end was a little sour. I don't hate it, but I don't enjoy it.
Great ideas! You should have written the movie 😁
The stupid dune buggy scene was also stupid.
Just use the transporter to get where you wanna go. Why beam to a spot that 30 miles away from your destination?
They lost me with the plot. I had no interest in the Picard-clone idea or another brother of Data. I was very interested in seeing a Romulan-centered story, but it turned out they were barely in the movie, and what we did get of them was poorly done. I was interested in the idea of Remans, but they were just there to be Nosferatu-looking thugs and not much else. The action sequences were just there to satisfy Stewart, who was determined for Picard to be an action hero. Data's sacrifice ultimately felt hollow to me because I had no interest in everything that led to it. Beverly, Worf & Geordi got nothing to do, and Troi was relegated to being a victim again. So overall, the movie just gets a big "eh" from me. Complete waste of potential.
Picard : All hands .... Battlestations
Picard: I think it's time to try some unsafe velocities!
I like it less every time I watch it.
By coincidence I just saw Violations the other night. It reminded me how much I hate Nemesis. In Violations Picard goes out of his way to protect Troi when telepaths he thinks are good guys offer to read her mind to help them solve the mystery of why crew members are lapsing into inexplicable comas. The offer of help seemed reasonable and genuine but Picard shuts it down with a speech that starts like, "I will not subject one of my officers..."
Contrast with Nemesis where he casually throws her under the bus, saying she should willingly submit to ongoing rape so they can catch the rapist. The line was tossed off like the most natural idea.
It was such a stark reminder of how the movies (and Nemesis in particular) failed to capture the characters we'd come to love and respect over seven seasons. It actually crossed my mind to take a screen cap of both scenes just to post as a reminder of why Nemesis sucks.
As much as I love Star Trek – and TNG has a very special place in my heart because it carried me through my formative years (ages 9-16) – Nemesis is a bad movie and garbage Trek. I'm not even sure I've seen the whole thing in one sitting. It's so hard to watch.
Except for seeing the actors nominally play the characters I love, the TNG movies fall short on characterization and Nemesis is by far the worst. It's not even their fault. The kind of slow burn morality plays that were the crux of TNG would have been a hard sell on the big screen.
It's worth remembering that TNG probably thrived the way it did because it was syndicated. I'm not sure it could have lasted on network TV. Network standards were a constant threat to, and ultimately killed, TOS – and that more or less hit the ground running. TNG had a rough first season or so. Seems unlikely it would have survived even one year outside of the gonzo environment of UHF.
And the mind rape thing is only one of the failures of the film. A horrendous one, to be sure, but it's at the top of a long list. Frickin dune buggy? "Goodbye."? Ugh.
Never saw the sun, shining so bright
The thing I hate most about Star Trek: Picard is that I can no longer ignore that this movie took place.
Bad. I feel bad about nemesis.
I like Tom Hardy and Ron Perlman as villains and wish they could have had a better script to work with. Also appreciate finally getting to really see what the Enterprise-E was capable of in a fight. And as silly as the Scimitar was, I kind of like it, at the very least I think it worked better as an overpowered villain ship than the Vengeance. And I kind of like the symmetry of the final TOS movie being about making peace with the Klingons and the final TNG movie being about making peace with the Romulans.
Other than that, I think Nemesis is kind of terrible. They were trying way too hard to recapture that Kirk/Kahn chemistry and it came across as really silly. The plot and script feel weak. For it being the final TNG film, it's too focused on just Picard and Data, everyone else feels a bit left behind by the plot. I understand why they killed Data, but I don't particularly like it. And the SA scene just feels out of place and really bothers me.