Palestine Open Thread 2024-144
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on May 19, 2024 at 11:54 UTC | Permalink
« previous page | next page »We check out the Palestine thread (rather than Ukraine or the open thread) because we all have a funny feeling about this one, don't we? White House personnel rush back to battlestations because the op was go, or whatever jargon you'd hear exchanged among demons in the assassination business.
Prepare your weary ears for dissonant layers of contradictory cover stories, with the standard lie full blast that Israel strikes out against the better judgement of moderating US American leadership (such as Jack Sullivan, huddling in the holy land as we speak). Biden is just as fully apprised and involved as his pretend sparring-partners over there.
That's the first thing to clarify: Occam's Razor slices away all other suspects besides USA and Israel, in coordination -- whether deriving a first assumption, or surmising how this looks to the rest of the world. There are far too many temporal coincidences to assume otherwise. UAW academics at UCLA just voted to strike, as a public-private partnership of fascist forces breaks the barricades and bodies of peaceful demonstrators for Palestine. Just one of many urgent pressures spurring desperate measures.
I once thought there could be peace on Earth, and I could be an artist. With nary a scrap of youth left to me, I have to change course, become a warrior. One door closes, another one opens...
Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 19 2024 22:19 utc | 102
From this evening's RT account:
21:26 GMT
On the orders of Russian President Vladimir Putin, two advanced aircraft, helicopters and 50 professional mountain rescuers will leave for Tabriz in an hour to help search for Raisi’s helicopter, Tasnim reports.
Posted by: PassionateProgressiv | May 19 2024 22:19 utc | 103
Losing in Ukraine? Destabilize Georgia.
Losing in GAZA? Destabilize Iran.
Same game, over and over.
Although… US is looking less and less stable herself these days…
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 22:28 utc | 104
AKINCI01
At flight radar is said to be a Turkish search drone. Unless guiding rescue efforts it looks like searching a 30x10 km long corridor, i.e. still searching and location unknown.
If official flight had landed somehow, some form of proper contact would normally have been made already.
Posted by: Ornot | May 19 2024 22:29 utc | 105
RE: “Prepare your weary ears for dissonant layers of contradictory cover stories, with the standard lie full blast that Israel strikes out against the better judgement of moderating US American leadership (such as Jack Sullivan, huddling in the holy land as we speak). Biden is just as fully apprised and involved as his pretend sparring-partners over there.”
Posted by: Aleph_Null | May 19 2024 22:19 utc | 102
Well said.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 22:33 utc | 106
Just when you thought that Israel, and her allies couldn't go any lower.
"Israeli army airdrops photos of children with warning to run to IDF in psych warfare."
"The Israeli military has begun airdropping leaflets with the faces, names and security numbers of Palestinians, including children, claiming they have been exposed as collaborators with Israel and listing a number to call to ‘save yourself’, in a naked attempt to sow suspicion and division among the Palestinians of Gaza, who refuse to allow their spirits to be broken by Israel’s genocide and endless war crimes. At least one child pictured is a toddler of two or at most three years old.
"The disgusting tactic exposes the desperation of an occupying, apartheid state whose own commentators and media are voicing opinions that Israel has lost the so-called ‘war on Hamas’ in which Israel has murdered as many as 100,000 innocent Palestinians and wounded around twice as many.
"Leaflets showing adults have also been dropped:......
https://skwawkbox.org/2024/05/19/israeli-army-airdrops-photos-of-children-with-warning-to-run-to-idf/
Posted by: bevin | May 19 2024 22:44 utc | 107
Israeli 'Crisis' May Lead to 'Military Coup' and Palestinian State Creation - Expert reads the Sputnik headline. Here are the opening paragraphs:
War Cabinet Minister and former Army General Benny Gantz has threatened to resign unless Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accepts his plan for the resolution of the Gaza conflict that could lead to Palestinian statehood.Tel Aviv faces increasing demands to resolve the Gaza War amid domestic toil, an expert has told Sputnik.
His comments come after Israel's War Cabinet Minister Benny Gantz threatened to resign unless Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accepts Gantz’s plan for the resolution of the Gaza conflict.
The plan in question involves the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip and the creation of a multinational civilian administration.While Gantz set the deadline for this plan at June 8, Netanyahu claimed that acquiescing to these demands would result in a defeat for Israel.
Commenting on this development, Tel Aviv-based international relations expert Dr. Simon Tsipis explained that Gantz’s plan, if adopted, would ultimately result in the creation of a Palestinian state – something that Zionist factions who currently control the Israeli government vehemently oppose.
Fascinating development.
If the Iranian president has been removed (somehow) Israel and it's satraps better be prepared for a hardliner to take ove ...
Nukes on the table? More aggressive support for Hezbollah, Ansarallah and Hamas?
Better the devil you know ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 19 2024 22:45 utc | 109
RE: Posted by: bevin | May 19 2024 22:44 utc | 107
Agreed. A bottomless abyss of vileness & depravity.
Thx for link.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 22:48 utc | 110
I know how I read this, if true of course:
Putin met with the Iranian Ambassador to the Russian Federation on the evening of May 19. Belousov, Gerasimov, Kurenkov, Levitin and Shoigu took part in it. IRNA reports this.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 22:51 utc | 111
🔴 Putin meets Iran amb. to Russia, expresses readiness to do whatever necessary over president copter crash
Posted by: Zet | May 19 2024 22:54 utc | 112
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 21:58 utc | 97
Do splutter away. It's entertaining!
Is that what your goal is, Jane: Entertainment?
Since you seem to refrain from responding to pertinent questions, like, What are your metrics for success in the Max Blumenthal-led plan to "pressure Biden," one is forced to conclude you haven't a clue.
If you did; rather, if you gave some thought to what you are being led into and by whom, you might want to make yourself aware that the Democrats appear to have set a June date for Biden to appear in a Debate, in order to discern any "signs of life," in the circumstance that young people, Blacks, Muslims, suburban women are abandoning Dems in droves. Joe Biden is not a power center. He can and will change nothing.
You'd be better off protesting, or conducting Education Seminars - sit-ins at evangelical churches.
Print up some of my "cynical" material about firebombing and lies by which their grandfathers and grandfathers were forced to war; the war crimes they were coerced to commit; and the gross injustice Germans have endured ever since. It might strike a chord -- you never know.
As for Blumenthal -- he's a grand-stander. Difficult to trust what Max spouts. The other day he said to Judge Napolitano:
"latest uh politically motivated investigations by the house uh Republicans uh in order to tamp down the exercise of free speech on college campuses well this is this is a-- we are witnessing a return to the house UnAmerican Affairs committee Trials of the McCarthy era in which people not only had their lives
destroyed for simply having the wrong political views but were actually killed: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and Sacco and Vanzetti American dissidents were given the death penalty ..."
The McCarthy hearings began in 1954.
Sacco and Vanzetti were tried in 1920-1921 for a robbery, (wrongly) convicted and executed. They were anarchists, but their execution was more likely attributed to being members of a hated immigrant ethnic group. Blumenthal should consult a calendar before he tries to fatten a narrative.
In March 1951, (i.e. 3 years pre-McCarthy) Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were tried on federal espionage charges in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. They were convicted of passing atomic secrets to Russians and executed. The only apparent linkage of the Rosenberg case to McCarthy hearings is that lawyers involved in the Rosenberg case later became part of the McCarthy hearings. While the Rosenbergs may have had "dissident" political opinions, that was not the basis of the charges against them nor of their execution. Blumenthal is blowing smoke.
Jane, you make me think of something Carol Tavris wrote in Anger: The Misunderstood Emotion, something about "marching off to war without knowing what the battle is all about."
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 22:54 utc | 113
Iranian VP Confirms Contact with Passengers of President Raisi's Helicopter
Sunday, 19 May 2024 22:14 [ Last Update: Monday, 20 May 2024 00:05 ]
Posted by: osi | May 19 2024 22:57 utc | 114
CM 113
Tut-tut-tut.
Now it's on to misogynistic armchair psychologizing.
What will this graybeard come up with next?
Posted by: Jane | May 19 2024 23:05 utc | 115
ChasMark 113
Cringe. You are behaving badly on a public forum and it's embarrassing.
Posted by: Giyane | May 19 2024 23:05 utc | 116
Why would a "source close to" the Iranian presidential administration contact some pendejo journalist at a has-been USA magazine that no one reads anymore? "Source close to" is the a dead give away of propaganda bullshit. Again, jumping the gun is part of the provocation, it's the deep state pulling wide open the trench coat giving the public a quick flash of its throbbing member and running away gloating.
Iranian leader Ebrahim Raisi has died, said columnist for the American publication Atlantic Arash Azizi.The statement was made with reference to a source close to the Raisi administration.
“A source close to the Iranian presidential administration told me that Raisi’s death has been confirmed" the columnist wrote.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 23:07 utc | 117
RE: “Fascinating development.”
Posted by: karlof1 | May 19 2024 22:45 utc | 108
Agreed. Gantz is a scum
As low as Nuttyahoo. Any Israeli or US plan for a 2 State solution is 2 States built on ethno status, whereby, the US/Israel control every facet of both states. A Palestine state that has no army, Air Force or navy. A Palestinian State that agrees to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital ect, a Palestinian State that Israel controls all borders and border crossings with their Arab acolytes.
The 2 State solution they parrot, has no relevance to the UN Charter of Nation State Rights or even close to Palestinian freedom of Governance.
Gantz has simply figured out, his IOF force is a bunch of savages and wimps, he can’t win a regional war, and doesn’t want US occupation that comes with a U.S. Base planted there. In addition, the “Arabs” have demonstrated unquestionably, they have zero intention in being a “peacekeeping force” for Israel.
He’s got nothing left but to stretch and try to buy more time with a 2 State “negotiation” that will last for years more.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 23:14 utc | 118
@114 osi
That has been questioned I think. Now searching @400km2 for the flight in low light and cloud cover. 7 Iranian drones plus Akinci (onboard video clip below)
https://t.me/GazaNewsNow/302343
Posted by: Ornot | May 19 2024 23:17 utc | 119
HELICOPTER CARRYIN IRAN'S PRESIDENT, FM MISSING IN EAST AZERBAIJAN . ISRAEL DENIES . THE LATEST
by PGURUS youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpYBEDmxOg
Apparently there were 4 Helicopters. Only 1 went down.
If the weather was a factor, why did the others not report any problems? Was the one in which the Iranian Officials were travelling compromised due to a bomb on board? No distress signals were registered coming from the helicopter
Also, weird that they would have both the President and the Foreign Minister on the same aircraft!
Posted by: susetta | May 19 2024 23:19 utc | 120
RE: “This is the end of civilization as we know it.”
Posted by: Mark2 | May 19 2024 23:23 utc | 121
Hopefully.
It hasn’t been “civil” ever. The mask have dropped.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 23:29 utc | 122
There were 4 helicopters. How is it that if the weather was the issue, ONLY 1 purportedly crashed? Where are the other 3? And why were the President as well as the Foreign Minister on the same craft?
Posted by: susetta | May 19 2024 23:33 utc | 123
There were 4 helicopters. How is it that if the weather was the issue, ONLY 1 purportedly crashed? Where are the other 3? And why were the President as well as the Foreign Minister on the same craft?
Posted by: susetta | May 19 2024 23:34 utc | 124
There were 4 helicopters. How is it that if the weather was the issue, ONLY 1 purportedly crashed? Where are the other 3? And why were the President as well as the Foreign Minister on the same craft?
Posted by: ann | May 19 2024 23:35 utc | 125
When I was a boy, ANTI-COMMUNISM excused constant warfare. After the Soviet Union collapsed and China turned capitalist, our Fearless Leaders in the US ANTI-ISLAM excused constant warfare. When conquering Iraq didn't bring about the Rapture, the Second Coming,and accupying Afghanistan was as big a disaster as it's been for everyone else, our Fearless Leaders pulled out and looked for other excuses for endless militarism. Russia hatred, China hatred, Cold War 2.0 seemed promising. And now we have anti-anti-semitism! We have to help Israelis slaughter their fellow semites, fellow Israelites, the Palestinians!
Maybe it's trigger the Rapture, provoke the Second Coming, bring about the Millenium, in which our tens of millions of Christian Zionist Dispensationalists will get to rule everyone else with a rod of iron! But I doubt it.
Posted by: lester | May 19 2024 23:35 utc | 126
RE: 🔴” Putin meets Iran amb. to Russia, expresses readiness to do whatever necessary over president copter crash”
Posted by: Zet | May 19 2024 22:54 utc | 112
Hum… I haven’t seen a link or reference yet that Putin/Russia used the words “copter crash”…
I think for good reason so far.
Search? yes Rescue? yes
https://t.me/AussieCossack/17354
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 23:07 utc | 117
This link of Light shows where Russia stands on it all. Until later maybe.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 23:38 utc | 127
This Al Jazeera report may be four hours old but it gives a vivid picture of the difficulty of the weather conditions and also Raisi's presence earlier at inauguration ceremonies to open two dams in Azerbaijan.
Posted by: PassionateProgressiv | May 19 2024 23:39 utc | 128
Red Crescent are concentrating on an area where fuel has been smelt by searchers...
Posted by: Ornot | May 19 2024 23:42 utc | 129
Seems odd that the president and entourage were traveling by helicopter. The distance one way is 400 miles (600KM).
Posted by: jfrchitect | May 19 2024 23:42 utc | 130
RE: @ Zet | May 19 2024 22:54 utc | 112
Sorry… posted wrong link from Light regarding Russia/Putin
https://t.me/llordofwar/351604
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 22:51 utc | 111
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 23:43 utc | 131
In case Raisi is 'gone', we're in for a hell of a week.
The speculation after Israel's attack on the Damascus embassy was nothing in comparison.
Whatever happens in Ukraine will be eclipsed.
I'm sticking with the 'accident hypothesis' for now, but conviction getting weaker by the hour.
@susetta - most sources say 3 copters. Technical problem, pilot error...
Yes it's odd they'd be on the same flight, but maybe they had things to discuss?
From what I understand, Bell built a helicopter factory in Iran just prior to the 1979 revolution. It continued building copters, so this one is probably Iranian-made. Which means spare parts shouldn't be a problem.
Posted by: smukss | May 19 2024 23:44 utc | 132
At SMUKSS:
So, if you are correct, and there were only 3, and only 1 suffered disastrous consequences, then why did the other 2 not aid the hailing one? They were traveling together. Where are the other 2 currently?!
Posted by: susetta | May 19 2024 23:54 utc | 133
/cheep
The battle of Rafah and everywhere else in Gaza and the West Bank must be quite painful for the Rabid Zionist Occupier State & its MENA Proxy for all of these rapid-fire, flagrant, regime change efforts.
Or perhaps it's all still a coincidence after over 3x occurring? ;)
"First is happenstance, second is coincidence, third and thereafter is enemy action." -- old military maxim
/cheep cheep
Posted by: titmouse | May 19 2024 23:54 utc | 134
Check out this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpYBEDmx0g
Posted by: susetta | May 19 2024 23:59 utc | 135
I'm sticking with the 'accident hypothesis' for now,
yes yes yes weather is a cruel mistress reminds me of the pancake collapse from fuel of all the floors of the building 7 on the 9 and 11
structural failure because of repeated plane impacts and fuel going down the lift shafts igniting and pulling the building down into its own footprint
yes that and poor chopper parts and engineering
the synagogue of satan has nothing to do with this weather missile strike issue
Posted by: todd | May 20 2024 0:00 utc | 136
Right now I don’t see reason to suspect foul play over less sinister scenarios. The President of Iran’s travel arrangements aren’t my business but at a glance using a helicopter to travel over mountainous terrain across a friendly border to plausibly remote locations for a dam opening ceremony… it seems reasonable. Equipment can fail and pilots can make mistakes, and the weather would complicate any emergency on board.
However, the reported absence of communication is not as easily explained. I feel that Iranian authorities may not be forthright with the public about what they know from many different information-gathering tools at the government’s disposal, from radio comms with the crew to full-spectrum surveillance of their own airspace.
Posted by: a stone | May 20 2024 0:01 utc | 137
No. My sources are my relatives who fled Prussia from the advancing Red Army in 1945.
Posted by: Apollyon | May 19 2024 15:24 utc | 29
Prussia dissolved in 1932 when power was transferred to the German Government.
And since you brought it up, which relatives fled the advancing Russians? The Nazis, the Nazi sympathizers or supporters of the Nazi Regime?
Cheers
Posted by: Suresh | May 20 2024 0:11 utc | 138
RE: “Where are the other 2 currently?!”
Posted by: susetta | May 19 2024 23:54 utc | 133
Reportedly, back in Iran. The rest of the incident is unknown atm. We’ve no idea what the 2 and those aboard reported.
The story is: Weather/aStorm/anOld Helicopter… that’s the gist so far. And if true, hard to “assist”. But, all makes little sense, unless something particularly happened to that particular helicopter, be it nature, mechanical or mischief.
Certain investigations have just scratched surface.
But Azerbaijani & Turkey as Azerbaijani protector, will see a reckoning. Russia stretched by idiocy in Armenia by Azerbaijan and Iran was handing a fig leaf in Azerbaijani. Now think Russia & Iran tighten noose on Azerbaijani & Turkey in days ahead.
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 20 2024 0:13 utc | 139
It was an old Bell 205 or 206 variant by that Al Jazeera video of the days events. I still see those flying around here on occasion. Flying that in a storm and you would be puking all over the place.
Iran counterfeiting Bell’s helicopters
Posted by: circumspect | May 20 2024 0:16 utc | 140
Posted by: ChasMark | May 19 2024 16:57 utc | 44
One diff between WWI and WWII is that in WWII there was deliberate targeting of civilians by both sides. For example, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the fire bombing of German cities. All done by the Americans and the Brits.
Considering what the Germans did in the Soviet Union, I think the Soviet response was quite restrained.
Posted by: JAB | May 20 2024 0:19 utc | 141
Global Times and CGTN beats RT hands down for news, and GB has regained a lot of 1950-60s commie bite.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 18:12 utc | 56
What is GB?
Posted by: JAB | May 20 2024 0:22 utc | 142
Suresh 138
Prussia continued to exist as an administrative entity until 1945, I think.
Re refugees, just about everyone who lived in the eastern regions of Germany streamed west before the advancing Red Army, if they could do so.
That is the reason there were so many refugee civilians in Dresden when it was fire=bombed.
Posted by: Jane | May 20 2024 0:40 utc | 143
Helicopter is a Bell 212 with 9 people on board.
Weather is foggy, wet with possible snow. Terrain is hilly, dense forest and wet. A group of 3 searchers are also missing.
The worry is that any survivors may succumb to the weather/cold. If rescuers managed reached site may also struggle to evacuate victims, as weather still not clear enough for helicopters.
There's report that 2 Mi17 may have been proposed as replacement for the presidential fleet.
Comments by US and Israeli sources are all gleefully exploiting anything that adds to their "myths" and merely displays their overreach.
Hopefully all 9 are found.
Posted by: Suresh | May 20 2024 0:41 utc | 144
At TRUBOND1"
But if the other 2 have arrived and are in Iran, and as you posit, may have not have been able to assist due to the impossibility of so doing, given the conditions at hand, then why would they not have been able to provide info on the location of the trouble, in order that that the search could be to narrowed and expedited? Even if the regime wished to extend the duration of time in order to better prepare to tell the public, why so long? Around 10 hours have now passed.
This was revenge by the Israelis for the fact that they just have found out that 50 of the Gaza Tunels went all the way into Egypt proper. The only question I now have is did they murder him or did they capture him? I am starting to think the latter. But if the latter, they as well as Iran, would need that Iran respond quickly with what they (the Israelis) want, in exchange for handing back the Iranian Officials, before it becomes untenable to claim that the officials were lost for more than 1 week in the mountainous forest.
Posted by: susetta | May 20 2024 0:46 utc | 145
40+ year old US made helicopter, mountainous terrain, bad weather buffeting the chopper and probably very poor visibility - an accident waiting to happen ...
... numerous examples of similar in UK and Ireland - e.g.
1994 Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash
On 2 June 1994, a Chinook helicopter of the Royal Air Force (RAF), serial number ZD576, crashed on the Mull of Kintyre, Scotland, in foggy conditions. The crash resulted in the deaths of all twenty-five passengers and four crew on board. Among the passengers were almost all the United Kingdom's senior Northern Ireland intelligence experts. The accident is the RAF's fourth-worst peacetime disaster.[1][2][3]
[...] In 2011, an independent review of the crash cleared the crew of negligence and accepted that the RAF had falsely declared compliance with regulations in relation to the aircraft's authority to fly.
Ignoring poor weather warnings has consequences.
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 20 2024 0:55 utc | 146
Posted by: JAB | May 20 2024 0:19 utc | 141
"Considering what the Germans did in the Soviet Union, I think the Soviet response was quite restrained."
Mearsheimer expressed similar opinion post @ https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/05/palestine-open-thread-2024-144.html#comments
A case can be made that USA wished/intended that Germany eradicate Bolshevics from Soviet Union.
After all, and since you mentioned WWI, it is the case that in ~1917-1918 the Wilson administration sent troops to Russia to overturn the Communist Bolshevic takeover of Russian government
https://corescholar.libraries.wright.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=biw
Wilson's effort failed. But that does not mean the itch was relieved.
It is also the case that there were powerful tensions in the 'pacification' of post-War Germany: one faction, predominantly Jewish / Morgenthalian, was intent on punishing Germany as harshly as possible.
Many in US Congress and US military leadership were opposed to this position, hence, the Marshall plan. A middle-ground was achieved through the argument that US should work to retain Germans in its sphere rather than the Soviet Communist sphere. Harold Zink's American Military Government in Germany is a useful resource.
Soviet Russia turned into an enemy of US with astonishing speed after hostilities ended. The hot war against Germany very quickly turned into a cold war against Soviet Russia.
___
nb. profound apologies to Jane and to giyane for the "entertaining", "mal-motivated" and "cynical" but "cringe" comments.
Posted by: ChasMark | May 20 2024 1:12 utc | 147
I am ashamed to be an American ... can't believe anyone could be this ...
https://x.com/SenRickScott/status/1792314680838439193
Posted by: crone | May 20 2024 1:17 utc | 148
UPDATE: Iran Missing Helicopters
IRGC confirmed that Turkish UAV detected a heat source from the wreckage of President Raisi's helicopter [reported on Press TV and Anadolu Agency] ... Russia Emergencies Ministry first batch of ii-76 aircraft and search and rescue crew just took off from Zhuovsky Airport to Tabriz, Iran to assist in rescue operations.
Posted by: Thirsty | May 20 2024 1:26 utc | 149
"The crash resulted in the deaths of all twenty-five passengers and four crew on board. Among the passengers were almost all the United Kingdom's senior Northern Ireland intelligence experts."
That sentence tells you quite a good deal of perhaps the underlying 'why' this particular Chinook crashed in Scotland in 1994 killing all aboard.
The Wellstone/Hammarskjoeld "Flying in Small planes and Helicopters" rule certainly be heeded in this case.
Cui Bono?
Posted by: thewokendead | May 20 2024 1:36 utc | 150
UPDATE: 6 Iranian UAVS and on Turkish UAV are searching within a 20km radius ... Turkish UAV is providing live streaming video of the search, about 1.9 million people are watching the live stream. It is interesting to note the extent to which various countries across the world have acted to show solidarity and assistance - Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Venezuela, Equatorial Guinea (yes, I know, how random :) ) on and on ... let us hope that this is an accident and all will be alive ... but with each passing moment, the conditions on the mountainous terrain are dire and pose a danger
Posted by: Thirsty | May 20 2024 1:37 utc | 151
"Iranian media:
It is said that these scenes are the wreckage of President Raisi's helicopter"
https://t.me/GazaNewsNow/302348
But also some reporting
"IRGC Cyber Guards Corps
The dispatch teams must have reached the announced coordinates of the Turkish drone by now.
The rescue forces reached the announced coordinates of the Turkish drone; So far, there is no report of seeing the wreckage of the helicopter.
Pasdaran Cyber Corps"
Posted by: Ornot | May 20 2024 1:39 utc | 152
Iran's Supreme Leader - No Disruption in the Work of the Country
“ … our dear people, whether you are present here or those who will hear this message later, there will be no disruption in the work of the country.
Posted by: Thirsty | May 20 2024 1:44 utc | 153
Iranian rescuers reached location of the heat signature detected by the Turkish UAV but no traces of Raisi's helicopter [Press TV report]
Posted by: Thirsty | May 20 2024 1:50 utc | 154
A couple of days ago Fico was shot
Now this...
When people talk about the the Kim's only taking trains... you're not paranoid if people are trying to kill you.
Posted by: Newbie | May 20 2024 1:52 utc | 155
IRGC Confirmation of Helicopter
IRGC confirmed that the heat signature detected by the Turkish UAV belongs to Iranian President Raisi’s helicopter
Posted by: Thirsty | May 20 2024 1:56 utc | 156
Chances of a 67 years old man surviving a heli crash must be close to 0.
No way Israel is not involved in this. Iran buying time ahead of their response. Bussy week ahead
Posted by: Mariátegui | May 20 2024 1:59 utc | 157
No way Israel is not involved in this. Iran buying time ahead of their response. Bussy week ahead
Posted by: Mariátegui | May 20 2024 1:59 utc | 157
===================
What would you think of Israel's issuing a "denial" if Israel were a character in a story by Edgar Allen Poe?
Caw caw . . .
Posted by: Jane | May 20 2024 2:12 utc | 158
Now back to the ongoing genocide in occupied Palestine ....
Laith Marouf: Israel's Genocide of Gaza, Palestinian Resistance & Global Implications
There is much in the interview but regarding the U.S. pier that was built on Gaza's territory, the supposed rationale was to allow for humanitarian aid [an insignificant amount] to be delivered from the Sea that will be loaded onto U.S. Navy boats and transported on the Pier that is administered by U.S. and IDF soldiers then delivered by IDF to some UN aid groups ... mind you this has militarized aid delivery AND put U.S. boots on the "ground," "air" and "territorial waters" of Palestine.
Laith, states around min 15 that he believes the Pier is built as a beach head to allow the U.S. to invade Gaza if and when the Israeli military collapses.
He does not seem to give credence to the idea that it could be a pathway to the 'transfer' of the people of Gaza in the ethnic cleansing project that Israel and U.S. have been jointly coordinating since the start of the invasion.
Posted by: Thirsty | May 20 2024 2:14 utc | 159
An up to date confirmation:
"IRGC Cyber Guards Corps
The location of the president's helicopter has been found. The rescue forces are approaching the crash site."
Posted by: Ornot | May 20 2024 2:14 utc | 160
First image, doesn't look intact if it is the helicopter...
https://t.me/SEPAHCYBERY/90513
Posted by: Ornot | May 20 2024 2:19 utc | 161
Will leave it there, to follow the local reporting on this:
https://t-me.translate.goog/s/SEPAHCYBERY?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en
Posted by: Ornot | May 20 2024 2:27 utc | 162
Can anyone explain to me why the president of a country which is at (proxy) war with israel and the USA
would take a helicopter through mountainous regions, where there's plenty of fog etc etc, or chances of being shot down or the helicopter being sabotaged......
in a region crawling with Mossad and CIA agents
Would not a plane guarded by your air force jets be a more secure way of getting around the region?
Posted by: michaelj72 | May 20 2024 2:29 utc | 163
MICHAELJ72:
Check this out, as may well explain why Iranian President had this happen to him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZHNTe9U_5I
Posted by: susetta | May 20 2024 2:32 utc | 164
fyi
I have checked with al Jazeera and Sputnick for a few updates. this just from a few minutes ago
https://sputnikglobe.com/20240519/live-updates-iranian-presidents-helicopter-crashes-in-east-azerbaijan-province-1118530517.html
LIVE UPDATES: Iranian President's Helicopter Crashes in East Azerbaijan Province
Iranian Red Crescent Found No Signs Those on Board Iranian President's Helicopter Are Alive
"Rescuers have reached the wreckage of the helicopter. There was no sign of surviving passengers, after locating the site of the crashed helicopter," Entekhab portal reported, quoting Pir Hosein Kolivand, head of Iran's Red Crescent Society, as saying.....
Posted by: michaelj72 | May 20 2024 3:24 utc | 165
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iran-parliament-election-ultra-conservative-winners
Do this article discussing the principlist Omana coalition, backed by President Ebrahim Raisi, versus the Endurance Front, allied with former Islamic Republic Guard Corps (IRGC) commander and parliamentary speaker Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf, suggest conflict inside of Iran?
I know so very little about Iran.. somebody please comment..
Posted by: snake | May 20 2024 3:24 utc | 166
Can anyone explain to me why the president of a country which is at (proxy) war with israel and the USA
would take a helicopter through mountainous regions, where there's plenty of fog etc etc, or chances of being shot down or the helicopter being sabotaged...... in a region crawling with Mossad and CIA agents
Would not a plane guarded by your air force jets be a more secure way of getting around the region?
Posted by: michaelj72 | May 20 2024 2:29 utc | 163
I can help. Because someone stole their mountain bikes and backpacks! (big smile)
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Iran and Azerbaijan on Sunday, May 19, opened a hydroelectric dam on their border, with officials calling the megaproject a symbol of “long-term cooperation” and “friendship and amity” between the two nations despite political disagreements in recent years, IRNA reported.
The Qiz Qalasi (Maiden Tower) Dam, built on the Aras River along the Iran-Azerbaijan border, was brought online by Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi and his Azeri counterpart Ilham Aliyev hours before the helicopter crash and subsequent search operation.
https://www.intellinews.com/iran-azerbaijan-open-border-hydro-dam-on-shared-river-325884/
The Dam is on the border .... mountainous region .... no Freeways! No Airports!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aras_Dam
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Iran-Armenian-Azeri_border_%28Cro%29.PNG
The latest census in 2016 showed a population of 11,472 people in 3,377 households.[2] The city lies on the western bank of the Aras River. Also adjacent to Poldasht is the Aras River Dam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poldasht
Nearest Airport - Nakhchivan City in Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic, Azerbaijan
https://www.rome2rio.com/s/Nakhchivan/Nakchivan-Airport-NAJ
Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | May 20 2024 3:45 utc | 167
Regardless of the reason for the deaths in the Iranian President's helicopter, I think the position of Iran will become more strident against empire.
If it comes out that the crash was not an accident, escalation against the perps is guaranteed.
Condolences to the families and country.
Posted by: psychohistorian | May 20 2024 4:00 utc | 168
Thanks to whoever posted the link to the article about Iran building its own helicopters out of the old Bell factory.
Posted by: Exile | May 20 2024 4:09 utc | 169
Posted by: ChasMark | May 20 2024 1:12 utc | 147
May I also recommend James Heartfield's "Unpatriotic History of the Second World War."
Great on the western campaigns; less so on Asia.
Posted by: JAB | May 20 2024 4:46 utc | 170
President Raesi confirmed dead by Press TV (Iran) news channel.
24/7 live coverage
https://www.presstv.ir/Live
easy to access if you use Yandex as search engine
Posted by: Willow | May 20 2024 5:25 utc | 171
The President was visiting Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has strong relations and trade with Israel. They are likely to have had an ongoing Israeli covert operation working within Azerbaijan who could have sabotaged the helicopter. At this point, it will be very Important for Iran to be able to obtain evidence that Israel was involved. Without it, military action against Israel could create a justification for US involvement. Israel will also win this round. If Iran does produce the evidence and can bring it before the international community, there will be a very large response from Iran that could destroy Israel.
Posted by: Turk 152 | May 20 2024 5:54 utc | 172
Where was the helicopter parked during the inauguration of the dam In IR or AZ?
https://www.israeltoday.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Azerbaijan-is-part-of-the-Turkic-peoples-Prime-Minister-Benjamin-Netanyahu-meeting-with-Azerbaijan-president-Ilham-Heydar-Oghlu-Aliyev-in-2016-Photo-by-Haim-Zach-GPO-scaled.jpg
Posted by: McKotz | May 20 2024 6:31 utc | 173
Iran is quite powerless against Israel. We know Israel does dirty, evil things, Israel starves the population and kills children.
But the evilness of politics doesn't not mean that they shall be defeated.
The evil side wins, very often.
Israel has nuclear weapons, furthermore, Israel is not afraid to use them.
Israel is not like Russia.
Hitler was not defeated because Germany was bad, but because it was weak, compared to it's opponents.
This is the main reason, Iran is powerless and that the genocide in Gaza is almost finished.
Posted by: vargas | May 20 2024 6:38 utc | 174
The asassination is a sign of weakness not of strength.
Posted by: Exile | May 20 2024 6:54 utc | 175
A Bell 212 is not a very reliable helicopter. Similar helicopters were the standard helicopter in Vietnam -- the "Huey" and they went down a lot, not invariably because the resistance shot them down. So it is possible that it was an accident
It is possible that the Iranian President was murdered by the Israelis, but as a poster a few posts back remarked, one needs good evidence. If the helicopter was brought down by a bomb, there will probably be evidence in the wreck. If it was sabotaged in some other way the evidence might be harder to find. The Russians and Chinese would probably be keen to send their best forensic people, because this would be a major escalation in the war in the region.
It is also, of course, possible that the Iranian President was murdered by the British or Americans for their own reasons, not necessarily to serve Israeli interests. So even if evidence of sabotage is found, and even if there was a rude note in Hebrew scribbled on the bomb, this does not prove Israeli involvement. One can easily see that NATO could have an interest in fomenting violence between Israel and Iran.
Posted by: MFB | May 20 2024 7:15 utc | 176
Sometimes shit just happens. The Polish President and entourage were killed on their way to Russia when their plane went down in bad weather.
Condolences to the families and the people of Iran for their loss.
Posted by: Suresh | May 20 2024 7:35 utc | 177
Posted by: Stonebird | May 19 2024 16:24 utc | 39
I think you are right. Especially about the dispossessed.
(I like your paintings)
Posted by: KingCobra | May 20 2024 7:46 utc | 178
This is one of those stories in which the equation 2+2=4 is not valid.
While the focus is on Raisi and Amir Abdollahiyan, the real person of interest was the charismatic cleric Ale-Hashem with some popular influence in entire Azerbaijan region (East Azerbaijan, West Azerbaijan - two provinces in Iran - and then, the Republic of Azerbaijan).
The top bureaucrat Raisi and the top diplomat Amir Abdolahiyan with high symbolic value can be replaced easily but not the cleric which had a functional value in an important region.
All three belonged to the same Clerical faction of power in the Iranian government. Other factions like National Bourgeois, Technocrats, Commerce Chambers (mostly cleaned up recently) wouldn't choose this type of confrontation. Remains the faction of Finance Capital which like any other country, would be able of doing all type of crimes.
In the region, you got CIA/MI6/Mossad/MİT crime syndicates and their more or less - common operation base -in the Republic of Azerbaijan.
Aliyev in the republic of Azerbaijan is smart enough to don't risk the future of his dynasty by approving such an operation. Turkey also would have a lot to lose in case of increased regional tensions but the fact is that in a Nato member country, the Intelligence apparatus is not owned by the domestic government.
Possibility of a coup d'etat, none.
Possibility of a regime change/ color revolution/ chaos, almost none.
Possibility of increased regional tensions, high.
Posted by: Framarz | May 20 2024 7:48 utc | 179
I think it is too early to rule out foul play by Mossad. I found this on twitteX. "Unconfirmed" obviously, but plausible..... and the animals in the IDF/IAF will try to take advantage of it.
"Israeli foreign intelligence service Mossad gave the list of names that will be assassinated in the coming days to the Israeli Air Force.
Israel is planning to launch a stronger attack than the attack on the Iranian Consulate in Damascus. - LS
12:15 AM · May 17, 2024
·97.8K Views"
JAB @ 142
"What is GB?"
Typo, meant GT, Global Time.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 20 2024 7:54 utc | 181
Stonebird @ 180
I think it is too early to rule out foul play...
It's never to late to rule out foul play, 60ys on and people still debate who killed the Kennedys. 1500ys on and people still debate the nefarious workings of the Vatican.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 20 2024 7:59 utc | 182
On TG yesterday there was unverified information that an Indian who was seen hanging around Raisi’s helicopter in Azerbaijan.
Clearly planted information to sow confusion and create wedges. Just a few days after India & Iran signed an important transport agreement who want to.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 20 2024 8:19 utc | 183
Framarz @ 179
Aliyev in the republic of Azerbaijan is smart enough to don't risk the future of his dynasty by approving such an operation.
Or compromised enough to have to approve it. "Allow this or we will off you instead". That ol' bargain with the devil problem.
During the cold war where stability was the important they empowered three dimensional people like Don Corleone but that was long ago, now in the west they empower two dimensional people like Michael Corleone, which you see clearly throughout Europe, impeccably tailored and groomed technocrat managers, and in the developing world they empower one dimensional Tony Montanas, shallow, petty criminals that are totally beholden to them just to stay alive from day to day.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 20 2024 8:38 utc | 184
Aaron Maté
@aaronjmate
Washington Post: "Iran, hampered by sanctions from getting parts and maintenance materials for government aircraft, has suffered several high-profile helicopter crashes in recent years."
US sanctions have caused helicopter crashes in Iran. Not sure if that's the case with Raisi's crash, but another reminder that "sanctions", which sound benign, are a form of violence. https://washingtonpost.com/world/2024/0
https://x.com/aaronjmate/status/1792424776746553771
Posted by: Menz | May 20 2024 9:06 utc | 185
If this was a hit, the Iranians handed it to the enemy on a silver platter.
1: Stupid decision to have the President, Foreign minister and that cleric travel to a country on friendly terms with US/Israel for a nonsense photo op.
2: Monumentally stupid to have them all on a single chopper.
Talk about feeding them to the lions.
Posted by: Facekicker | May 20 2024 9:07 utc | 186
Kevork Almassian🇸🇾🇦🇲
@KevorkAlmassian
It is crucial to understand that Iran is not a banana republic, and regardless of President Raisi's destiny, Tehran will persist in functioning in the same manner. Nevertheless, the enemies of Iran should hope that the crush was an accident and nothing more.
https://x.com/KevorkAlmassian/status/1792267510596678095
Posted by: Menz | May 20 2024 9:08 utc | 187
Engineered helicopter crash with plausible link to "bad weather" - aka, assassination.
1. Plant small amount of explosives in main/tail rotor compartment
2. Remotely(sat-comms) detonate explosives over hard to reach area making the chances of survival almost impossible(If the crash don't get work, the weather might)
This is the next phase of the global war of imperialism. Every leader who doesn't bow to this cabal is not safe. First they tried Fico, then 2 coup attempts in Africa and now Iran. The operators are desperate since their trusted soft-war tools(colored revolutions, media intimidation etc.) don't work anymore.
They're now reverting to their true thuggish nature. Brace yourselves world, it's gonna be a tough ride.
Only way this nonsense ends is when key figured in the belly of the beast start having strange accidents too.
Posted by: Zico | May 20 2024 9:23 utc | 188
Facekicker | May 20 2024 9:07 utc | 186
As I posted yesterday, if this was a terrorist attack, the real target wasn't Raisi but Abdollohian and yes Special Ops don't always go according to plan
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 20 2024 9:27 utc | 189
Iran is blaming the US for the crash, saying that US sanctions prevented them from having access to parts for aircraft.
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Mohammad Javad Zarif: The fault of the President's helicopter crash is the United States, which has embargoed the sale of aircraft and aviation parts to Iran despite the order of the International Court of Justice.
These will be recorded in the list of US crimes against Iran.
https://t-me.translate.goog/s/SEPAHCYBERY?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en
--------------------
Biden has not issued a statement yet as far as I can tell, exhibiting a stupid and unnecessary lack of diplomacy. Even the EU has put out a statement of condolences.
Israel's statement is simply that they didn't do it. I'm sure they didn't - it was an accident in weather bad enough that the flight should have been delayed - but what a seriously retarded official statement for a country to make.
Posted by: teri | May 20 2024 9:30 utc | 190
Posted by: teri | May 20 2024 9:30 utc | 190
I don't think it was accident it was assassination with Israel the most likely suspect, less likely Britain courtesy of MI6 but they have heavily penetrated Azerbaijan since 1991 so you couldn't rule it out.
Raisi was an important figure. There are some who say that he can be easily replaced, it won't be easy.
Whatever has happened be it accident or assassination. expect the UK/USA to take advantage of the situation. A struggle for power is possible, and against this background anything can happen, including a colour revolution.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 20 2024 9:44 utc | 191
How come the bad weather didn't affect the other two copters of the group? The group would have been in radio contact, was a mayday sent? Reports from those other crews will be critical, so far nothing. Someone here in a post mentioned that in case of trouble the group would have stuck together, at least to mark the place of the "hard landing" makes sense to me. If that is correct then the downed copter had sudden trouble and not a weather issue which would have left at least a few minutes of communications and data record. If it was downed by the west Iran, China, Russia will hush it up, if it's going to be war best do it on your timeline than the other guy's.
If it was downed, the provocations can only scale up from here, think about that, what comes next? USA and NATO want WW3 and they will have it.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 20 2024 9:48 utc | 192
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 20 2024 9:48 utc | 192
You're right Russia and China will ensure that this was an accident caused by bad weather/technical malfunction and Iran will go along with it.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 20 2024 9:52 utc | 193
Loosen a few bolts . Simpler than missiles and explosives. Why does 8srael feel the need to say they didn't do it at a state level. They do this stuff all the time
Posted by: Hankster | May 20 2024 9:57 utc | 194
3 helicopters flying together in "bad weather". The ONLY one with key figures go down in "bad weather" but the other two continue on their journey? Make it make sense!!!
Only explanation would be an explosion onboard and pilot suddenly losing control - hence, the crash. This was an assassination operation!
Also, what genius security coordinator puts all key figures on the same aircraft?
Posted by: Zico | May 20 2024 9:59 utc | 195
"Yihla moja, yihla moja
The man is dead, the man is dead"
(Peter Gabriel)
For some reason those lines were going through my head yesterday evening.
Wouldn't have thought this incident to be possible.
Seems Iran is plagued by so many things. A whole country of "Unglücksraben".
---
LightYearsFromHome | May 19 2024 18:12 utc | 56
"I watched RT USA and UK for years when it was on TV, mostly for Lee Camp, Hedges, Rattansi, Ventura, Larry King wound up there too. Better than any western media, much more hip and with it without being annoying, no NPR voice noted by a cadence that sounds like a presenter at a grade school birthday party, which is intentional (infantilization of the audience). But RT was modeled on western media and news-wise they were pretty tentative, uninspired and conventional, Global Times and CGTN beats RT hands down for news, and GB has regained a lot of 1950-60s commie bite."
I remember watching RT when the war on Syria was hot and during the 2016 US election. This station beat all the German news stations by lengths, easily. Gave me a whole new idea of "news" and what a news station can actually be. Then Ursula von der Leyen switched RT off for me in brazen disregard for my rights, that f*cking c*nt.
Your observation about "NPR voices" is especially thrilling to me. As a German I've never even once listened to US NPR obviously, but even so I think I get what you mean. Been wondering for years now about the ugliness and stupidity of the obnoxiously prevalent manierisms of TV voices in news and documentaries on German TV, especially female ones!
Cheers!
Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | May 20 2024 10:12 utc | 196
We recently learned on MOA that the west was carrying out assinations in Yemen under the code name 'daddy's home' (i think) 20 or thirty top military were murderd by US UK trained special teams plus their payed on the ground colaberaters.
This latest assination is a predictable follow on from that.
Iran lost 4 top generals only weeks ago, blatently. And gave israel a slap on the wrist. You cant do that. Its percieved as weakness. Psychopaths and bullys need a strong punisment, they need to feel pain.
I'm sorry but thats just how it is.
Is it to late ? Not while you have breath in your body.
Ther is no such thing as coinsidenence,
Wtfu.
Posted by: Mark2 | May 20 2024 10:13 utc | 197
Raisi was an important figure. There are some who say that he can be easily replaced, it won't be easy.
Posted by: Old Sovietologist | May 20 2024 9:44 utc | 191
What made him so special?
In the west, esp America, even the word "president" is like, magical, and president is considered most important person ever. But Iran has a whole different society and history. I just dint see the death of Raisi as being one of any particularly profound set back.
Soulamani's assassination, I would say, had greater impact on the area.
Posted by: UWDude | May 20 2024 10:19 utc | 198
Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | May 20 2024 10:12 utc | 196
RT was the first youtube channel to get 1 billion views, 2012 I believe it was.
RT was demonetized from Youtube, and folded mid 2022, iirc.
Posted by: UWDude | May 20 2024 10:25 utc | 200
The comments to this entry are closed.
Update: Latest from Russia:
“19 May 2024
21:26 GMT
On the orders of Russian President Vladimir Putin, two advanced aircraft, helicopters and 50 professional mountain rescuers will leave for Tabriz in an hour to help search for Raisi’s helicopter, Tasnim reports.”
Posted by: Trubind1 | May 19 2024 22:19 utc | 101