A history subreddit for the American Civil War, which lasted from 1861 to 1865.
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I would like to see it. The fact that Europeans care about our dust-up has always fascinated me. At 135th Gettysburg in 97, I had 4 German guys in my platoon. They were very good soldiers.
I have a friend from Newcastle who has a nice collection of Civil War memorabilia. I had no idea and then one day I see all this stuff laying around.
I know. Someone posted a video a few months back showing German reenactors marching in a small town in Germany. I spent a lot of years in reenacting. Those guys looked pretty good. They had some fat boys, but we did too. Some of my best pards...
Too bad they waited until after 1914 to really notice it.
In the book Collision of Empires the author notes that the Russians were so fascinated by the cavalry tactics of the CW that they based their cavalry tactics and doctrines on it in the decades leading up to WWI.
Not a bad idea. It was probably the most recent war fought on a large scale. Russia would want to study large surface area wars more because their own nation has a large surface area.
One thing that appealed to them was the far ranging aspect of the cavalry operations. Raids like Grierson’s, Stuart’s Rides, Morgan’s Ohio raids all stretched across vast areas and as you say, the Russian Empire wasn’t exactly wanting for area for such types of operations.
Both Russia and Germany used horses heavily during WWII for moving equipment.
That I didn't know. I knew Czar Alexander II was a great ally of the Union during the war; was this because he and his ministers took the conflict more seriously?
My understanding was that Russia’s trade with the North American continent was much more reliant on United States wheat exports than it was on cotton, so economically it was more closely tied to the North than the South.
Also, the Russian people when they looked to alternate, fairer versions of government, really loved the idea of the American Democracy. For example, the Decembrist Revolutionaries proclaimed that the American Republic was (to paraphrase) the only good government on earth. So, while I am not completely sure as I haven’t studied the Russian politic deeply of the time, the Confederacy probably stank too much to them of a people trying to create a society with an elitist, aristocrat element. Also, don’t forget that the serfs were emancipated in 1861, as Czar Alexander was opposed to any type of slavery.
I also believe that there was a certain amount of contrarism about it too. England and France had fought a war with Russia not too long before the CW and they seemed much more inclined towards the Confederate cause. So Russia naturally took to the Union banner partially to spite their recent enemies.
Underrated comment.
This is something so many history people just never consider.
I have family in England, when they came over to visit they wanted to visit Petersburg Battlefield. My one cousin is kind of a history buff and he saw that siege as kind of a precursor to the warfare in WW1. I didn’t think many people outside of the US knew much about the American Civil War.
I am Canadian and a huge Civil War buff. There are dozens of us!
Like bagpipers
Lots of those up here
Fan of the Highland Pipes and avowed “Ugly American” of German & Welsh heritage. Head out to any Highland Games anywhere and you will discover just how many pipers there are out there.
"I am Canadian and a huge Civil War buff. There are dozens of us!"
That being said Canadians make up 90% of the polite Civil War Buffs. When I reenacted there were two Blonde Twin Sisters in our Organization and one of their husbands, he was also a Canuck.
We never had a real civil war of our own so we get to be fascinated by yours
And in the Uk I’d say a couple of thousand re-enactors scattered around the country
I didn't think so either. How much do we know about all the wars that they've fought? Very little...I don't know about them. I really like running into people on this sub who have studied them...probably in school. I've always been interested, but never made time to read about them.
There are a lot of people in the US (myself included) who are very into the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars. There's also a smaller group (primarily WWI and WWII buffs) that are also into the Franco-Prussian war since it led to the unified German state and ended the French hegemony in continental Europe. I do agree that its a pretty niche interest here.
Point taken. We've spoken before. You have a userid that's hard to forget. I've been on hiatus for a while. I'll bow to your knowledge of this history. I am interested as hell, however.
People in Europe are no different than us here in the US. There are really very few here who "know" our own history, which is just a few hundred years old, and in my experience, the same goes for Europeans. I'd suggest that the majority of people can remember "some of what they've been taught", and most of that has been bastardized not only by the person telling the story as well as we ourselves who often compare our ancestors with the same lens of how the world is viewed today.
I know a lot, but I have met people and groups that know a TON more than I do, and I try my best to go into "STFU" mode, but I'll still challenge them or ask questions to better understand.
I was in the UK years ago and visited the Imperial War Museum. A few friends from the UK joined me, and I felt like a tour guide to them. I was happy to explain things "as I understood" them, but was a bit shocked that I had read and studied their involvements in the World Wars more than they had. <I was fortunate at the time to have lived near Aberdeen, Maryland which had an awesome museum there, as well as roads lined with tanks and artillery from almost every country over the years. The curator who was there, Dr. Lee Atwater, is often seen on shows highlighting some of the different tanks, weapons, etc, for WW 2. (Sorry to digress, but it was a cool freaking museum before it was moved to Ft. Lee, which I haven't visited)>
Same here in the US. Joe US Citizen when asked will tell you the Civil War was a bunch of redneck traitors who were all pro-slavery battled and lost to the North who was all abolitionist and that the Civil War was fought to end slavery. Nothing is further from the truth, and anyone who takes the time to actually read the history, would understand that there was animosity between North and South that existed decades before the exploits of John Brown or that a single shot was fired in anger. I would guess that a majority of the people who study the Civil War probably study more about the battles, or the soldiers, or the generals, and really haven't looked much past that. Not saying that's a bad thing, as at least everyone here loves learning
Most Americans probably don't even know who George Meade was, much less that it was him and not Grant who led at Gettysburg.
Wow. Lots there to digest. I'll start with the CW stuff. My Dad got me reading about the War when I was young. He was a WW2 soldier; I became one during the Cold War. Many of the modern interpretations of the War make me sick, only because the people espousing them have very little knowledge of what actually happened.
I am guilty of mostly studying about the battles, although I've read lots of other books about what led up to the War. I'm a former soldier, as was my Dad, Uncle, and Grandfather. The issues of politicians are something that soldiers seldom think about.
I'm particularly interested in the US involvement in WW1 and WW2, and have read quite a bit there. Still, my knowledge of the nuts and bolts of CW soldiery far surpasses that. I spent over a dozen years as a CW reenactor. I wanted to get as close to their experience as I could.
Trust me, despite the online mocking, Europeans still have a lot of fascination for the US.
Wild West and Civil War history js very popular in Europe with the older generations, especially here in Italy
I'm glad to hear that. I take my history seriously. Anyone mocking the killing and maiming of thousands of people is an idiot. It doesn't matter where it happened.
I meant that Euros sometimes mock how the US works as a country, less its history and wars.
There is a lot here to mock. We mock it too. All I can say in our defense is that many of us want to have a free country, with equal rights for all people.
We have not accomplished that yet.
It's a very important part of Worlds history.
The alternate history scenarios regarding the world wars and the US Civil War are very fascinating.
If the south wins does Germany win WW1? Probably.
How does a German win impact colonial holdings globally? Does the Kaiser remain in power?
If Germany wins WW1 does WW2 even happen?
Without rampant post war German inflation Hitler probably never sees power. How does that impact the global depression of the 1930s?
If the UK loses do they go socialist in the 1920s or 1930s if some of the colonial holdings are peeled off in the post war settlement?
Even without alternate history it's very important to study what the World was to understand what we are now
I can't really argue. As a younger reenactor, it was something I hadn't considered. Anything the Europeans have to say about our history is important to me now.
I've been a history buff since I was 8 years old. Got it from my Dad. I can't answer any of your questions.
It always amuses me when I remember Phil Collins was a huge Texas Revolution buff. He even donated a huge collection of memorabilia to the Alamo.
I've never heard this before...
I think this probably stems from a fairly significant proportion of European involvement on both sides of the conflict.
It’s important to remember that more or less all Americans of Caucasian or Latino ethnicity then as now were and are all ultimately descended from European colonisation between the 16th and 18th centuries. And immigration from Europe persisted en mass long after the initial forming of the United States.
In both armies on the civil war there were vast numbers of first generation immigrants from all over Europe, including Spain, Portuga, The Netherlands, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the U.K, Poland, France, Austria, Scandinavia, to name but a few.
Fundamentally the ethnic and genetic makeup of the United States means that European and American history is somewhat intertwined. All Americans are ultimately descendants of Europeans whether distant (I.e at the point of arrival on the continent as early as the 15th/16th century) or as late as first generation immigrants present during the civil war itself. Of course this does not include those Americans who are ethnically native, they of course descend from the original and indigenous inhabitants of the continent, present for many centuries and perhaps thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans.
The Union Army alone had entire regiments and brigades of foreign born troops from European Countries, particularly from Ireland and Germany who heavily immigrated to the U.S in this period. In the 1840s to 1850s alone, almost 40% of the entire population of Ireland immigrated to the U.S. to put this into perspective, I am British born but half Irish (republic) and half English and I have more living relatives in the United States today than I have in the U.K and Ireland combined. This is almost certainly down to Irish mass immigration the U.S generations ago. I traced my family history (in Europe) as far back as the 13th century, and as soon as I get as far as the 18th and 19th centuries, this is where I start tracing significant family history stretching to the North American continent of both the U.S and Canada. So this appears to mirror the general European and American crossover with history. After all, if no Europeans ever crossed the Atlantic and founded colonies in the first place there doubtless would have been a United States, certainly not as we know it.
So I guess what I’m saying, albeit in a very convoluted way is that Europeans are interested in American history, because it speaks to our own history down to the personal level as much as our own distant European history does before the existence of Nation states in North America.
That's about the best explanation of this I've ever read. I'll certainly remember it. I may have to reread this a few times for more of it to sink in. Thanks!
You’re welcome man, that’s just my take on it analytically with my lifelong but amateur study and passion for history and my personal family origins.
I for one have always felt closely tied with the U.S given both my Countries origins in it and history in the making of it. And I think thats the main reason why I’ve always been so passionately interested in American history as I am British and European history.
British guy here. I’ve been obsessed with the Civil War since I was very young. Interested in military history in general but the Civil War specifically.
That's really great. I love it that so many people, and from everywhere, are interested in our history. My Dad got me involved when I was really young. He was a former soldier (WW2) and huge history buff.
It's odd, but I have a great interest in the Battle of Britain, before either the USSR or the US came in to help Britain fight the Nazis. No real expertise, but it makes for a great read.
I’m from a military family too (including myself), but for me it was reading The Red Badge of Courage as a child. Then Ken Burns’ iconic documentary - lost count of how many times I’ve rewatched it now!
I'm not certain what my first Civil War read was. Something written for young people about the Battle of Shiloh. It was probably a We Were There book. They were popular in the late 50s and early 60s, putting young, fictional protagonists into historical situations. My Dad and Mom used to buy them for me. I found and reread one last year. It was about Lexington and Concord.
It's under attack now, but Burns' work is still one of my favorites. I was able to watch it, and Glory, with my Dad and Mom before they passed. I had an old VHS set, but recently got a new DVD copy from a friend whose Dad had also passed.
Those Hessians will fight for anybody who will pay them.
That's funny, in a sick sort of way. I can understand people who have High Principles going to war. But to go for a few bucks and risk being killed or permanently maimed? They must have had very bad lives or needed the money badly...
There have been mercs pretty much for all of recorded history, in every conflict to the present. People make a career out of it. Some stick to one side of various ideologies and some fight under the banner of "private security," but they all fight for money.
Crazy. I've seen them mentioned in histories I've read since I was a kid. Only now, when I'm old and retired, have I given them any thought. What a great book that would have made. 'I Interview The Great Mercenaries of History'...
Many of the German troops that fought in the American Revolution had no choice. Their local prince or duke would make arrangements to rent out his soldiers and off you went. It's worth noting that a significant fraction (estimated at a third to a half) of the German troops that fought in America stayed here when the war ended.
Thanks. I didn't know how that worked. The Duke just sold off your services. Nice. Probably was a good deal for the guys who got through unscathed and decided to stay.
Naturally
I was there! As a middle schooler on a family vacation, but there nonetheless!
It's a wonderful place to visit if your kids are really interested. I first went when I was 10. I was fascinated by the story of the battle. My older brother was not.
Like you, I was the interested type. That was the first large-scale reenactment I had ever seen (more than a couple dozen people) and it just sent me on a lifelong rabbit hole. So, thank you for your contribution to that!
Thank you, too. Most of us loved hanging out with the crowds afterwards, answering questions and demonstrating our equipment. We had lots of pictures taken with kids we let wear some of our stuff.
I often wonder how many family vacation photo albums I'm in...
Some friends and I once discovered an entire cav company of Russians website. Tons of pics of them. Was a trip seeing civil war uniforms with a siberian landscape.
That is so cool. I'm always surprised at their interest in our war. The Germans I saw in the video clip had really done their homework.
You should know the make up of most regiments contained an awful lot of Europeans, 1 in 3 in Northern and about 1 in 5 in the South
I actually do know that. I mostly read books about individual battles or campaigns. There's always lots of information on the make up of the various units that were involved.
It's the modern interest that surprises and pleases me. Growing up, I had absolutely no friends who had any interest whatever in anything historical. We were sports players. Sports and cars were all they cared about until one of us discovered girls.
If you haven’t read it already’company H ‘ is a good and enlightening read
I read it back in the 90s while I was involved in reenacting. I remember liking it. It would be worthwhile to check it out again.
Oh sry I didn’t mean to sound like I was having a go , I was just trying to say that some of us have taken a interest into various conflicts, shameful I probably know a little bit more about your civil war than my own lol
No worries. I don't mean to be defensive. I actually haven't been on the sub for a while. It's good to be having these conversations again, even though most of us quickly find things to disagree about. Unless I'm totally sure I'll usually defer. There are a lot of people on this sub who studied this in college. One or two of them are teachers now. I'm just an amateur hobbyist.
I have to admit that I know very little about any wars that the US was not involved in.
I was at 135 Gettysburg, Was with Engineer unit that came from CA. We went out and cleared a roadway through some trees (actually just pulled some fallen logs and marked a pathway with them. We guarded the ANV HQ with the CSMC group that was there and fell in with different infantry units for the battles. I remember some Germans in one of them. Their impressions were middling, but I guess there really isn't a lot to buy at the time in Germany. The ones I saw drank a lot and damn near passed out from the heat. There was also a French Guy that got arrested because he shot someone with a lead " skirt" using a borrowed pistol in a cav battle.
PS Pretty sure the 135 was in 98
Right about 98. I should have taken more Math classes in school. I think we marched down that road through the woods on our way to one of the battles. There was a lot of freshly cut wood around. I remember that it was beastly hot, and our fat guys kept running out of water. We had a few young kids around as company runners; they had to keep hauling canteens back for refill.
I remember the story about the French cavalryman. No one ever inspected his borrowed weapon. Our officers dud not tell us of the shooting until the event was over. They were afraid that there might be retaliations.
I remember the water situation. It was more about the units having to stage so early. One canteen of water isn't really enough if you are standing and walking in the heat for over 2 hours before it even kicks off.
That's exactly what happened. They hearded our Battalion (6th BN ANV, Liberty Greys) into an open field about 2 hours before the battle was to commence, and left us there in the sun. It had to be near 90 degrees. We all, of course, were wearing wool. It's a miracle nobody died.
Sort of realistic. There were 200k native born Germans fighting for the Union. Largest group by far
I've read that it was a short cut for immigrants to obtain full citizenship. In my own family, in the 20th Century, it worked. My Grandfather, an Eastern European immigrant from 1903, served in the Army in WW1. Things that that been denied to him were suddenly open after that...
Nice find! If it’s cool I’m crossposting it to r/warmovies to spread the word!
An Italian movie about the ACW?
As an italian Civil War fan, this pleases me a lot.
I hope its about the italians that fought in it.
Is it safe to say I dannati = the damned?
Yup thats exactly it
Grazie!
Off topic: Lombardia, huh? I casually follow Atalanta in Serie A. Do you follow anyone?
Como 1907!!!
We just made it into serie A this week after 20 years! Huge celebrations all over the city! :D
Never been a big soccer guy, but i love my city to an incredible degree, so i guess i gotta start💪🏻
I don't think so
While it takes place during the Civil War, I’m not so sure it’s actually about the war, but rather the western frontier.
True, but the war was fought in the West as well if I recall correctly
Yeah, it could be I guess. They’re supposed to be in New Mexico I think.
It was. That was the Trans-Mississippi Department of the war and the Battle of Glorieta Pass in New Mexico I've often heard referred to as the Gettysburg of the West.
The Good, the bad and the Ugly takes place in and around the far western campaign of the civil war.
Is that Italian? Hope there’s a subtitle version in English
It's Italian, I hope it as well
The cinematography looks great in the trailer
Of course the cinematography looks fantastic. It’s Italian.
All those Morricone flicks are worth watching for the cinematography alone.
Watch their mouths move vs. the dialogue. Kinda looks like they may have dubbed it into Italian while using English speaking actors?
Edit: Found its a Italian/Belgian/American coproduction, and the cast (all unknowns) have American names.
Trying to think how strange it’ll be to see Civil War Soldiers speaking Italian. Then again, other countries have had to watch Americans or Brit’s play their people speaking English for years.
I hope they'll dub it.
Wasn’t that the case for a lot of the spaghetti westerns?
Yep
I Dannatti: Italian for 'The Damned' You're welcom